Dang 100hp down. Those roots and screw blowers REALLY like the vodka. Closest station to me that sells E85 is 2 hours away, and they called the cops on me last time I filled up some barrels. So they don't get my business anymore, next one is another 20 minutes south. I paid $4.40 for 87 octane today when I filled up my 2500 so I can haul gravel tomorrow. 91 is just under $5.50 here. Last year when I got E85 it was $2.10, will be getting another 150 gallons later this month, my daily driver 65 GTO run on it. So I don't know what its selling for, but I bet its well below $5.50. Back in 2007 when gasoline was $5 a gallon here, I started making ethanol. From '15 until last year I ran E85 rather than making it, it was dirt cheap and usually less than $2. This year I am working on getting the production up. The plan is to never buy pump gas again, not even for my generator when the power goes out here. I don't even build engines with pump gas compression anymore. Its 12:1 or more with all my engines. Still trying to get that much from the LS truck engines, but for now 706 heads on a 6.0 works good enough.

Hey Richard I just want to step up and say thank you for making this video because I am one of those guys that always wants to see stuff on pump gas really appreciate it thanks again

Good to know Richard.....Tests like these are going to answer a lot of questions people need answered......Keep'em coming.

My daily driver runs 91 octane on an lq4 daily with a lil added ring gap and head studs. 12psi is max but it see's 12psi multiple times a day. Stock cam and springs and stock 317's. 9.5:1 compression and 2 very small 53mm t3 turbochargers with international wastegates and a factory duramax intercooler and radiator. I get 17 MPG highway and it has 600+ ft lb of torque from 2400 all the way to 5,400 RPM. Has done highway trips with 10k lbs behind it without issues

Thanks for the 91 octane info. It's all I can get in my area.

This is what I’ve been waiting for would love to see it dialed in ring gap, timing, boost to arrive at reasonably safe numbers

You are one of the most helpful KZfaqrs ever thanks so much for your vids im 17 and thinking about running a 2.8lc KB on my bone stock 4.6 2v and i have so many questions that are hard to find the answers to even on google and you answered alot of them but i still have a few and im just going to wait until you go live again but thank you so much for making these videos

I love this video!! Thank you. Very much needed. It’s nice to see what we can do with pump gas and how we can maximize what we can get out of pump fuel (premium 91 or 93 of course). Hope to see you do some more pump gas videos.

Love it as always!

bless you for this video richard!

great video Rich

Glad it didn’t blow up. I’m really digging all the tests with the L33. Just in case my current set up is lackluster I’ll know where to go from there.

Great comparison!

Good vid, I definitely like the pump gas vids more than race gas tests, race gas is super expensive and almost nobody runs it in their street cars, which is what most of us have. I know it's a completely different animal because the power bands are vastly different, but it's interesting that you got 599 at the crank out of a blown 5.3 on 91oct, and I made 618 on a dynapack with a 3.0 (S366SXE) on 93oct. The magic of turbocharging, with its lower losses, improved compressor efficiency, and easier intercooler integration.

Way to produce a new quality video!!!

I would really like to see the difference in power at at 6, 8 ,10, 12, 14 lbs boost with different pullies ,etc. Great videos ,THANKS

Great comparison..

DATA!!!! We took over a 408 LS build from another shop that had issues, boat engine, small Vortec non intercooled deal. We reduced compression, swapped in a much smaller cam (6500 is no bueno for a family style river boat cruising for hours) and replaced the factory EFI with a Terminator kit. It made OK power but since it runs between 3000 and 4500 and has to run on 91 octane I was puzzled why I was stuck with about 9 degrees timing while under boost (about 6 PSI) but with this video it makes perfect sense, and how excellent is is to see the timing table. We have on order a Whipple LS kit with integral intercooler so it'll go back on the dyno for some tuning with the new setup. I don't expect to be able to run any more timing but we should be able to step up the boost a bit since it will have an efficient intercooler and river water as coolant. Going to take pictures of Richard's timing tables just for reference, it'll be interesting to see how different they look. Thanks Richard, this information is basically unavailable, there are little hints you can find here on KZfaq (Joe Simpson has hours of KZfaq videos on Holley EFI) but rarely does it relate directly (lower RPM high load) to marine applications. You're AWESOME!!!

Great testing and results. Now add WMI to the 91 octane!!

That's a big difference! Now I'm curious to see if reducing timing or reducing boost would be better for that combination on pump gas. Which one will lose the least amount of power?

Great stuff Richard! I’m assuming that when you’re going from e85 to pump gas you’re accounting for the stoic number changing between the two? How do you end up at 11.5:1 on e85? I’ve read it’s easier to use Lambda when switching between fuels but AFR seems to be the common number used. I always like learning new stuff! Keep it up!!

I really appreciate your videos . How do i buy your books . i was thinking you got a lot of experience in tuning and building engines thanks Jim

Awesome info for us poor fellas with no pump E85, but how is the power comparison to E85 and 91 Pump with meth injection. Thatvwould be another very useful video I fell, help us guys here in Canada and cold climates a hence to see good boost numbers and power.

Now show us those ol hotroddin tricks to be able to get the timing back up some on that level of boost!! I know you got some ol school tricks up your sleeve!! Only really one thing left to do with this setup..... stroke the 5.3 to a 383 THEN let’s see what happens!!! ESPECIALLY on the 91! Thanx Richard!

Damn. 100 hp and 50 tq just from fuel. Really wanted a 91 build since that’s so much more available, but them power numbers are hard to pass up lol

I have a question. Obviously it would be easier with a turbo/boost controller combo, but have you ever tested to see if the horsepower loss realized pulling timing was more than the gain from the extra boost at different levels? Basically on pump gas with lets say 10:1 compression, what is the boost level that is a point of diminishing returns due to timing losses.

A follow up on this video could be a repeat with pump gas and water methanol injection. Us that can not get pump E85 may have the option to run w/m injection. I am going to do so on my build and would love to know the actual value of w/m to a boosted pump gas engine. I am building a LSA blown 6.0

I still can’t find a website for Demeuse Engineering. Have you tested 91 with water injection? I remember some of Holley’s ECUs can control it. For 91 octane a 6.0 truck motor might be a better choice. Also you might compare that blower with a Eaton m-122 since it would much less expensive. Maybe the 2.3 as well.

This is literally the same exact difference in power on my old 2012 gt500 with a 2.3 vmp tvs at about 18 psi. Made 702 rwhp on e85 and 598 rwhp on 93 octane. Boost for boost 24 degrees timing e85 and about 17 degrees on 93 and boostane.

It was very interesting checking out the different fuels What I gathered was Nitro is 1 atom 4 oxy methane was 1nitride and 3 oxy Gas or octane is 1 nitride 2 oxy methane being a little more volitile Nitro Metane the big boys use is Nitro Methane Hydrogen That amplifies it like H Bomb Same way a Rocket goes to moon Then Supercharged The E85 with Ethanol Has water in hydrogen that has a lot of oxygen but after it burns makes water and if it sets any length of time its a injector destoyer Alcohol drying up big portion of it The Hydrogen adding 10-20 horsepower The thing with E 85 and nitro methane is they are burning Way more fuel to do it . my 93 gas mix is 12 % Nitro about 40% nut or caster bean oil Working to lube like 2 stoke oil lubes piston rings its light oil some have synthetic causing great heat burning off 40 percent corn Alcohol The ultimate test would be if you can put All that Advance in ignition you do with E 85 with my Nitro mix lol because the octane is so high the 93 having alcohol in it and magic nut and bean oils lol I say put them to Dyno

Wow that is huge. Sucks I can't get e85 in my area

Get down when you hear that sound! Boost!

Which supercharger has the biggest displacement and which one do you prefer based on power and how expensive it is to installed

You should test on better flowing heads

yup , time for a bit of water inj , i ran my 215 buick /rover on 9.25:1, 20 psi boost , and 87 octane , with enough water ..no alcohol.. it's fine .

If you ever take that l33 apart I'd love to know the ring gap that's in there now! Almost 15psi without checking the gap?! I'd be sweating EVERY RUN! 😆 Thank you Richard.

Trying to make a habit of getting prepared to watch to your video's by letting the commercials roll brother. Everyone try to make a habit, especially when video is starting. Let's make Richard the next Mr Beast $$$$$

Could you possibly do a walk around of that blower manifold? Unless it was in the live stream. I was looking for somewhere to get a price idea on it and I can't find it. GT500 blower on a 6.0 for my foxbody sounds like a riot!

My turbo cars run 93oct and wmi since I have few e85 stations around. Would like to switch to e85 but not happening anytime soon.

Compare 91 to 93? Add fuel additives like octane booster? Does any of that really make a difference? It would be cool to see you test the fuel grades and additives, store bought additives from your local part store.

When Brule did the 91/E85 comparisons for Engine Masters with the NA LS the timing was the same without much difference in power, slightly more with E85 but same timing. It basically didn't care what it was running on as long as the F/A was right, the timing was 29 BTDC no matter what.

I think I missed what stock tq/hp #s were on that LS, na. I’m building a Toyota 4 cyl street engine with 150hp na and just want to be able to double the output on Costco 91 with a turbo. Also, what about reducing compression ratio a little?

Oh that poor little belt I was waiting for it to give up the ghost!!!

Is there any way to measure the clearance from the valley cover to the top of the blower? I've got very little hood clearance and this looks so close.

1 would like to see what would happen if you added meth/injection to the 91 octane setup

i run 91 with over 15psi no problem. built 97 4.3(stock bottom end), Vortech V2-SQ, ford powerstroke intercooler.

How's the stock tensioner holding up? Excessive belt slip?

I believe these lags can be augmented by a tune relative to the octane/alcohol content

...and this is why you setup a street blower car with a flex fuel sensor and ECU that can adjust for it

Yay.

I’m going this route on a 416” LS3. Probably only 8-10 psi. What timing would u recommend starting at on 93?

This making want to do for my 03 tahoe hell or my 944 with a swapped ls

Love the videos!! Can I run a LSA blower on a LS1 with stock heads and stock compression, I think it’s around 10.1? Or would 317 heads be a better choice because of the combustion chamber size?

So your saying there’s a chance :p wow what a power swing.

How about a test to show the best street tune for this setup on 91 octane? For example Optimize timing and boost levels to arrive at a safe reliable daily driver.

I think that with pump gas meth injection could help with adding timing and keeping boost at 15 psi. Be nice to know air inlet temps below intercooler. You added meth to E85 blown engine. Did not to much. But the E85 does the same thing as meth injection. On pump gas it may be the answer.

Yes, add water injection.

I wish you can try a vmp on a 6.0

For years, I ran a non intercooled Kenne Bell 2.2 Flowzilla on a 95 5.0 mustang gt. It was ran with 42lb injectors on 91 octane and is still running around on the same combo with the new owner. Its all in the tune for longevity but im sure a swap to e85 would have been huge for power gains on that car.

What size belt did you use do you remember?

Hey Richard I have a 04 GTO with a Ls1 5.7 I can get a m122 cobra supercharger and would like to put it on my GTO is it possible and what would I need in order to do that? I will make a video as I don’t and send it to you if you help me with the process. Thanks in advance I love your videos

Hey Richard, what cam is better for boost “Sloppy Stage 2” or “Truck Norris”??

👍💪

It’s crazy this fbo 5.3 with cam and ford blower makes more hp than Zl1

I would like to see chevy stock 2.0 turbos on a 3.6 v6 to see if it would gain hp or stay the same.

Damn. Us ford guys finally had a source of reasonably priced power. Now comes the @Richard Holdener tax.

By any chance have you done any tests on cathedral port 5.3’s with an LSA supercharger?

I build all of my cars to be ran off of no more than pump 93. Its easy to get and my cars are built to drive. If e85 was more available in my area I would consider it but I also dont like that its unreliable as far as fuel quality goes depending on wich station you go to and time of the year.

I'd be happy to just watch a continuous shot of the engine doing the pull. The still images cut in to the video don't add much for me. 3:02

Anyway that you could equalize the volume?

I guess that settles that , could you hear it detonating at all when you put the timing back in with the 91 octane ? I would have been terrified.......

Try the same test with deep-dish pistons! IF: You could get the compression near 7-1, AND you could beg borrow or steal some "squish area" inside the CC >>> then you should be able to keep your 15psi boost on 91 and run enough timing to really kick ass. I already know it works great - I just want you to show these kids that 6.5 to 7-1 mechanical compression is preferred over all others for horsepower ( gas mileage SUCKS with 7-1 though !)

Quick question Rich.... Do you think running an heat exchanger is a must with this setup???

You had made the point during the video and I believe you emphasized about not running that much boost on a PD with 91 for the street. Just for curiosity sake, could you get away with more timing with a 700HP turbo, all else being equal? Less parasitic loss, perhaps less heat = more power at same timing or even more power if the turbo setup can add timing?

Timing view definitely helps us backyard tuners

Sweet test!!! So any guess where same horsepower can be reach if boost is reduced and timing is optimized on the 91? Just trying to form a boost/timing curve in my head…

Hey Richard when are you going to do a carbureted 8.1 liter

Wonder if we can see a 6.2 with 243 or 799 heads and Ford blower?? #RichardHoldener

I know this is off subject But one thing I would like to see is a truck Norris cam in the LS 496 if they even make one

4.8/5.3 with a lsa be cool. testing cams.

How about a test without the intercooler on e85 to see how hot the air gets? You can run his adapter without it.

Any thoughts on what this blower would do on a 408 ls running e85? Was talking with someone a while back about this set up and was told the blower would fall off and pretty much wouldn't do what I'm wanting

Great stuff , what about 93 octane, do you think this would add a few HP or just buy you some added engine protection ?

Looked up the price of the adapter kit. It's 2500.00 bucks

Do they have an adapter for m112 eaton supercharger

Just going to run to the back of my 2 car garage grab a Ford racing blower Put it on my junkyard 5.3 Ls. That is setting on my engine Dino Just happened to have cam I found setting next to the blower, it had some high dollar valve springs To use on my high dollar cam A good friend gave me a high dollar adapter kit to bolt on the blower A set of high dollar headers Everyone should be able to do this Just the engine for my street drive 100,000 dollar 1957 Chevy convertible Then why would I cheep out on my fuel?. For the kiddos out there, gasoline burns faster than alcohol Therefore the more alcohol the more timing to be able to produce the power gained by using alcohol That is slower burning slower. Plus it takes more alcohol to produce the extra power. Therefore bigger jets or more fuel pressure. And you might run higher compression like some kids are doing now. Viscous circle My dad had a farm pu with lp gas , always wondered what would happen with high compression pistons 13 to 1, And more timing, but of course would’ve work cause always had to switch back to cheap gas when you ran out of butane.

i know this is old but will the adapter plate bolt onto a 5.7? you said every engine but that one.

Where did u get the throttle body adapter for the 102?

Hey Richard I've got a mark 4 454 two bolt main will running a 6-71 blower with 3 to 6 psi boost kill the engine I'm not going to race it just play with it and use it as a daily driver

Do they make the adapters for cathedral port heads too?

Took my engine back out!!!! All the rings were atleast .026 gapped, i could have just sent it.. but you mever know

Don’t many factory turbos run 1atm?

I don’t understand how this package only picks up 172hp on 14 pounds of boost. I always understood that power should double with 1bar(14.7psi) of boost. That would be 854hp, I understand that the blower consumes some power, but is it eating 255 hp. I don’t know why anyone would pick this combo over about the same investment with a single turbo, plus it could run 20-25 lbs of boost on E85 and with a flex fuel sensor and turbo it would pull back the boost for 93 pump gas, plus it would make much more power with no loss for the blower drive.

If you optimized the motor for e85 before adding boost would you make more power? As in shaving the heads to increase compression ratio. If you increase the compression ratio would timing decrease?

I watch the episode where you ran E 85 through a blowthrough carburetor and you couldn't get enough fuel did you ever figure that out?? I have a blow through Turbo set up and I'm scared to go to E85 because I've seen several people not be able to get it out of a lean condition even taking the Jets completely out of the carburetor!! I would like to run to E85 but I'm scared to transition because of the problems I've seen. what is your opinion?? Kevin at CSU built me a carburetor for 93 and it's intercooled!!!

Dude I've repped ur site and that's what's up. I run 4.6 modular, bang it?

What happens at say E25, 50, 75, 100 ?

Here’s a question for ya.... which setup gt500 m122 or Cadillac m122 makes more power? (On pump gas) and which setup (aside from the blower itself) is more cost efficient Thanks rich

Woowww Rich... That was a major question of mine... 👀👀👀👀15lbs😬😬😬... Even though I'm on E85, that's still a lot aint it... And that's also a bigger pulley your using... Is that safe for a stock bottom end.. How do we get this blower down to 10lbs???

So what is a good boost to timing ratio to run on a daily on 91 so you don't start losing power from dropping timing