Almost every major brands lower end carbon frames are built the same way - lots of carbon and heavier (almost to the same weight as AL) compared to their highest end models. Usually also made in the same factories as well. Carbon is actually a very cheap way of manufacturing, the expense mostly comes the mold and prep we really shouldn't be paying the absurd prices bike companies charge for them.

Part 2 is now live where we cut the frame in half - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rdRmY6-I2bHLqGQ.html

Fascinating video! Just getting into cycling at 63 years old and the rabbit hole has now brought me here.

Over the last 2 yrs (particularly) people don't trust brands they're not familiar with.. Yet the ones they do end up in CBR. Goes to show they can't all be accident repairs if there's a full time business fixing them!

Very interesting video. Thanks ,looking forward to the second part.

What a great, interesting video! I love to listen to people who know what they are doing.

Enjoying your content Jourdain. Thanks for another interesting vid. Cheers.

Super interesting, looking forward to part 2!

Thanks for the substantive analysis.

Rob is a freak'n Genius!

I've got scanner envy that's a great bit of tech. I'm a bit old school in the sense i still like using a vernier and micrometer but for what this guy is doing i see the benefits.

Super interesting. Especially with the forks. Really critical component 😬

great vid. looking forward to the next chapter.

This video is super helpful and informative

Part 3 - Rob puts it back together!!! :D

That was awesome. Thanks.

Radius on the fork assembly has nothing to do with the deflection of the fork. Resistance to deflection depends on the flexural rigidity (EI) and the stiffness of the end connection. Flexural rigidity is increased by either increasing E (Young’s modulus) which is a material property or I (The Second Moment Area) which is determined by the section dimensions and material thickness. Both forks have similar external dimensions, so it is very likely that the cheaper fork is thinner and or is built from a lower grade of carbon fibre. Is that a problem? Well it depends. Providing the fork is rated for the potential static and dynamic loads it will experience it is unlikely to catastrophically fail even if it’s flexible.

Very informative video, thanks & subbed. Not in the least the bit where the specialist mentions he repairs a lot of Canyon carbon drive side seat stays.

Tha's very interesting, thanks for this great video. I got a chinese frame since years and I will not hesitate to order another one.

Don't buy cheap Chinese made frames. Buy OUR Chinese made with EXPENSIVE decals frames hanging on the wall behind me.

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="150">2:30</a> Is that Rachmaninoff's 2nd piano concerto playing in the background? 3rd movement Lol. Rob has an amazing musical taste too :D

Really hoped to see some active thermography from that frame - isn't that the preferred method?

Omg I was so close!!!!!! He was just here in the states!

great detailed video

I'm not defending trifox or anything, but this one I guess is their lower end frames. There's newer ones the x16 and x18 (although still, "Heavily Inspired" by spez tarmac) which I hope you'd give it a look as well.

Aren't these frames from an open mold they used to build (or still build) for another manufacturer?

You'd be better comparing the trifox to the cippolini that it's copied off. To get a better comparison.

Just remember your brand name bike as ridden in the Tour de France is a Chinese made carbon frame

I know very little about bikes but on the flex thing, when the wheels are on, it wont flex so much? would it affect ride or is it a failure risk down the road?

Surely the answer to where to clamp is the seat post? Easily replaceable if it breaks.

wait he has the newest bianchi oltre already? when was this video recorded? 😅✌

That point about seatstays breaking is kinda funny. I've seen several bikes where people are riding around on a broken seatstay bring it to their shop complaining about a noise or weird ride feel. I don't know about carbon, but with steel people have gotten away with riding with a broken seatstay for far longer than you or I would feel comfortable with.

Thanks this is super interesting.

I would like to see a comparison between a high end Chinese frame ($ 1500) compared to let’s say a Specialized (Yoeleo/ winspace) Because I have seen recently two Specialized frames that have cracked I think these ultra light weight frames are not useful except for riders that get them for free because they are sponsored 300 grams extra weight makes approx 10 seconds difference on a 1000m high difference climb (who cares if you are not a hill climbing racer?)

New sub here !!!! On my way to watch pt.2

So, how do they compare to Cambridge M1s ?

That Engineer was very impressive.

This carbon explanation gives me new light in tonwhat actually could have happened to the Titan submersible when it imploded on the way down to the Titanic. Someone could have very well over stressed and over torqued a component that was attached to the carbon fiber tube and caused fractures in its structure. Carbon can be somewhat forgiving but once it's damaged, it's done.

Nice job

Has anyone ever wondered why Rob's repair shop is full of carbon frames?

When the cutting tool starts to tear up the frame im a bit sad of it...this kind of chinese carbon frame is a luxury to us here in my country..im wishing to have that kind of frame and you guys just cut it apart but this vids help me know a lot more about this kind of frame. Still wishing to have this frame though hope someday...

you should do this stuff with a big name brand frame like trek or giant

Your Trifox X10 looks exactly like the Cipollini NK1K. The difference I see is the NK1K has a cover at the head tube where the steerer exits.

I have access to a General Electric ultrasound machine to examine frames as needed .

I am cringing more at the position of that Unifi access point than the clamping of the bike frame. On a serious note, top team at CBR as had more frame repaired, 3 months ago

I wonder at the end he can guess the price 🤔. Thanks Jourdain for taking the time to do this.

Carbon for pro athlète best choice aluminium lights and titanium

be very interesting to make a (unfair)? comparison between a calfee colnago sworks

TLDL - what's the 10-word result?

This is not normal bike stand is it?

Ever done a Trek Madone 4.5? I'm pretty impressed with mine: has all the features you say it should: aluminum re-enforces dropouts, drain holes etc. BUT, I don't know how much design & manufacturing excellence went into it.

As my old man said to me regarding bikes, "buy it nice or buy it twice..."

Fascinating, I didn’t know this technology existed

Shot bru, lank interesting

Where is part 2?

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="545">09:05</a> why are these two different size is the real question here ? of course the longer one (in this case the chinese) will be more flexy , its simple physics.

The lesson is to buy bikes without seatstays, eliminating that point of weakness

Love your content but cam Nicolls bought this frame and had an carbon expert review it,came out as very average.why did you buy to destroy? I have a Delihea rest with Sensah empire 11 speed,and elite carbon 50s rim brake. love it.

so whats to point of scaning the frame? to say this is a straight line?

have you scanned a high-end carbon frame to compare it to though? 🤔

Our local pro uses China carbon frame to compete in international bike races and he has zero issues 😂

Where did you buy this btw?

i use an alloy fork on my carbon frame. I trust a carbon frame more than a carbon fork.

Yes, But how much does this cost?

Trifox frame with Italian flag colors?!?!

So if your frame isn't spot on, how much performance is lost?

I’m enjoying the bike so far kzfaq.infoUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA My only real complaints are the brakes and the pedals. I feel like a bike designed for bigger people should have much larger pedals and more heavy duty brakes. I’ve only gotten two really good rides out of it, minimal downhill action, and the brakes feel like they’re already going out. A larger person has more momentum, so I think this wasn’t thought through very well. Also, I wear size 13-14 wide shoes. My feet cramp up on these pedals that are clearly made for smaller feet. Since I’m not a pro rider (and I don’t think many are who purchase this bike) I don’t think that the straps on the pedal are necessary at all. None of this takes away from the enjoyment I get from riding, however. I’ll just head to a bike shop to improve on a few things.

Show me a 'repaired' carbon bike, I'll show you ............ straight to casualty!!!

What we don’t know is who an entry-level frame from a mainstream western bike manufacturer compares.

How about the elves?

Try the twitter carbon it's also a cheap chinese carbon

This dude sounds like he is from South Africa ?

Personally, i dont mess with carbon for my bike but it's great to know exactly what we're missing just in case of gettin one of those cheap chinese frame.

Carbon Shit on my orbea Triathlon Bike, fork head Tube broke by nothing after only approx. 9.000 im. High danger risk in running Traffic ... Some parts May OK in Carbon, but never forks or Front parts.

The test is more expensive than the frame

As a few others have also pointed out in the comments the fork flexibility test really has pretty near zero application to what the fork does in real world conditions. Based on the exact same criteria the cheap bike that has a 3mm thick top of the top tube is obviously far superior than a Canyon et al that have a super thin flexible top on the top tube. That test of the forks is about as informative as a GCN free hub sound check. If the spacing for the front axle isn't exactly spot on then having some flexibility built into the profile would be beneficial as to force the arms of the fork in or out will be pre-loading the forks and creating an unneeded stress. Other than that Rob's gear and analysis was a fair eye opener.

My friends keep telling me to upgrade from aluminum. Nah son, aluminum is far more forgiving and when I do upgrade, it's to titanium.

We all know someone with a broken Canyon

Wow, that expensive frame is much better then super cheap one! And ansver to smartass from the video, chinese didn't made cheap one that way because they don't know how, they made it that way to be cheap! Logical, don't you agree?

Чем легче велосипедная рама и туман истории производства рамы тем толще должен быть шлем велосипедиста.можно надеть на голову шлем с системой мипс 😂

With all respect." You put the carbon in " It's not that simple even for the Chinese.I am sure you will one day show a video of what it takes to form - make a carbon frame before it goes inside the mold.

I’m still on Cyfac Aluminium/scandium 😉

I've learned enough with my experiences over the years that carbon doesn't belong on any of my bikes. You want carbon and are willing to take the risks I wish you luck, but it's got to be made of metal for me the rest of my days.

absolutely missing the point here. We buy a branded product because branding assures a level of accountability. With a Trek, Specialized or Giant there is always someone reliable to go back to if a problem occurs. A big brand is not going to risk its reputation (and survival) by putting out crap product, because rectifying problems will cost them dearly and puts them at a competitive disadvantage. A recall can easily cost mullions and can't be insured against. With unbranded products the cost is lower because the supplier does not have the costs of providing accountabiliy. In order to be fully accountable, and survive in business, a brand needs to invest in testing, quality control, liability insurance, and a network of distributors and dealers to provide service. To get dealers, and consumers prepared to pay the premium prices necessary to cover these costs, they also have to invest in marketing in the form of advertising, pro team support, etc. Marketing costs big money. With discount price, unbranded frames there is none of this. It's the wild west and the consumer is taking a great risk. There is little or no accountability, and consistency can be an issue. Carbon frames are laid up by hand, so no two frames are ever identical. Cutting up one sample to look inside will tell you far less than finding out whether you're likely to get paid out in a law suit if it fails and hurts you, and wherther there will be a global recall to prevent it happeening to anyone else. The mainstream brands have a vested interest in not hurting their consumers! This stuff is all that keeps your chin from being ground away on the tarmac. Buying cheap, unbranded products is a mug's game. Caveat emptor...

So you effectively threw away £300 - you must have money

Will a £300 frame kill you? What about a £800 frame?

The video could have been considerably shorter (and better) if you didn't make cuts every few seconds where you just repeated what Rob said. Higher end carbon frames are great and are every bit as good as big brands like Spez or Cannondale. Entry level carbon frames are a bit of gamble. Especially something like Trifox/Delileah/TFSA as TFSA is the actual OEM behind them and it is not a very reliable manufacturer - QC is all over the place and they tend to copy frames without having a second thought (i.e. x18 frame being a direct copy of Tarmac SL7, including the faulty headset design).

Drink a shot every time he says “cheap Chinese carbon frame” Fact is most of our components and frames come from the far east because Labour is far cheaper . Therefore they are all cheap “far east “frames . The difference is , you don’t make a saving , the big brands make a big profit. .

You should do the load test, stress test, .... pls dont say thin or thick!!

So basically just buy aluminum or steel frames

Like in any industry, we need to understand we're overpaying for our bikes... Never bought a carbon one and wont be buying one in the near future

Only thing I’ve learned is don’t buy a Canyon bike

Filipinos rate it by flicking it

I would not get a carbon bike repaired. It’s a one off when it’s damaged bin it.

Метал лучше по всем параметрам.

it is a bias, you should also compare big brands like trek, cannondale... etc. so that you could see the actual difference.

This is part of the business. Today, marketing strategiest are now using KZfaq vloggers. 😂 That scanning is performed by human to be able to create 3d images. And the results can be altered throu a procedural execution along the process... Why should I believe to what ever the results are in this video?.

So you cut it up for more videos

I love the channel, and the humor and wisdom you put in your videos. That being said, I don't ever see myself buying a Chinese groupset, and the closest I'll ever get to buying a Chinese frame is by a Western brand where their frame happens to be made in China. Unfortunately, this channel just isn't for me.

I always laugh when I see Italian flag decals on things that are so obviously NOT Italian. Is anyone fooled by this? I wonder.