Checkout part one of this series here - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n7J_iJN1nNO3mok.html

From what I've seen, that frame looks better on the inside than my 11 year old top model Merida Time Warp.

This is an incredible peak behind the curtain for carbon products in general and bar no one else is posting this information, Thank you so much.

It pains me to say it but that frame is better made than some of the top brands.

If more videos like this are made, it would encourage more manufacturers to do better regardless of price point

That frame looks better made than many of the frames I've seen cut up by Raul at Luescher Technik. He has shown huge issues with super expensive brands. At the end of the day though carbon fibre is a hand made process with lots of potential for faults. It's the most advanced material with the least advanced manufacturing in many ways. From what I've seen that is a maybe 6 or 7 out of 10 frame. Overall good I would say. I'm not a performance cyclist though and have zero use for such a bike, I don't need to have a lightweight weak bike it serves no purpose for me and they aren't environmentally friendly. Titanium, steel and aluminium can all be fully recycled and have much better manufacturing consistency. I totally understand the appeal of CF for competitive cyclists though.

Excellent video, I built a Trifox light frame ( given at 900 grams frame only) with Shimano 105. Arrived at around 7.5 kg total, riding for the past three years. No issues so far. Bought the frame in Shenzhen directly at the factory, needless to say service is great. Got the handlebar from them as well, one piece molded.

wow, yes I'll agree with comments here, that frame is very well made for the price! The white foam bit in the fork is not epoxy, it's an insert

Please continue to do this testing. You can become the " project farm" of testers for bicycle frames.

Great info! Thanks for sharing. I've been racing a Chinese enduro carbon frame since 2 years ago, and I've been very happy with it. Right now I'm on the 2nd frame, but I change it only to change size. No problems at all! Frame is an Ican P9, highly recommended.

the white material you found may be a milled filling foam used to wrap carbon-fiber around: you can have a shape designed to withstand force, without having to layer carbon solid

I find it hard to believe that that large white section in the fork could be solid epoxy resin that's a huge span with few voids. Given the geometry at the section is quite complex it wouldn't surprise me if an expanding syntactic foam was used. In order to get even/reliable pressure distribution to the carbon in that difficult region. Other manufacturers do this in localised areas. Depending on how restricted it is to expansion will alter its density.

Was looking forward to this, it didn't disappoint. Another great vid, thanks JC.

Thanks for this video! I keep watching videos where other channels refer to something as 'cheap carbon', 'nice carbon', etc. Had no idea what that even means.

I learned more about carbon frame technology from this 2-part series than from any other videos on youtube! Thank you!

Excellent video mate!!! Good info and explanation of the information! Thanks for doing it... I really enjoyed it! Cheers

Thanks for the great examination on an import frame. It revealed a ton of great information.

Thanks for your sacrifice! 😅 My first go round with Chinese carbon I purposely bought a road frame that was a bit beefier as most failures at that time were from the frames attempting to be ultralight climbing frames. That bike served me well for thousands of miles and is still going strong on its third owner. I also rode some Chinese road and mtb wheels. Chinese carbon has come a long way. Now I have a Chinese gravel frame on order. 🎉

Many thanks for your efforts involved for your content.

I saw both of the videos and you're doing a great job. I hope you will continue doing these kind of clips. Greetings from Chiang Mai, Thailand.

Thank you for this awesome video. I am almost sure if you do the same detailed inspection of brand name frames , you find defects in their frame too.

Thanks for another very educational video.

the White section is a core, as others have pointed out. The "Jam-in-the-sandwich" are not squished epoxy but unidirectional layers,

1) Please, if you care anything about your own health, when you're cutting carbon fiber wear a respirator and cut over a vacuum table. Carbon splinters and dust are inert particles your body doesn't register as foreign bodies and will sit in your lungs and in your own skin not actively expelled by the body's immune system. 2) It's actually fairly easy to source mainstream manufacturer bike frames to cut up. They're called warranty repair or crashed bikes. Warranty repair only requires the shop to destroy the frame, would consider what you're trying to do destructive. ;) 3) If the repair expert says the forks are likely something he doesn't feel confident in, why do you end up saying you're going to keep buying them and running them? Simply buy another reputable fork and run that. Paint/decal it however you want.

Thank you for educating us.

Hands down the best bike/carbon/manufacturing video of the decade! Wow! This wad so much fun to watch. Chinese frames have never been a hotter topic than now with economics going south and price increases in combination with Chinese frames actually being rideable just a question of how good. Please continue these kind of videos ❤️❤️ you make all other KZfaqrs look like total wankers

we need a video like this on the Elves Falath

Both Hambini and Lukas Euscher (sp?) have demonstrated that Western frame, coming from the same factories, are prone to some of the same problems.

First, I hope you are wearing eye and breathing protection when you were doing all that cutting. Second, I'd like to know if you expect the problem with the fork to cause a catastrophic failure or more of a slow break with maybe the headset getting loose and letting you know there's a problem. Thanks for the great content.

Hey man ever thought of cutting an eleves falath frame in half next time? since im now curious regarding how the frame is built. Its okay if you dont haha. Anyways nice video im getting hooked into this.

really impressive ... Thanks for the informations

Thanks for sharing man. This video made me subscribe to your channel. I’m looking around and doing research about these type of frames to build a every day race bike. I was looking at the Trifox X16 and 18 also at the Elves and the Velobuild. I believe the Velobuild is cheap but with a good reputation. What about you do a review just like this one? I’ve learned that the VB-R 177 has a higher quality carbon level comparing with the VB-R 168 Thanks ones again Greetings from Curacao 🇨🇼 ✌🏽

Thanks for taking the time and associated costs to inform your audience of the quality of lower cost frames. The thermodynamics of moisture inside the frame without suitable egress is concerning to observe. Couple that with the use of dissimilar ferrous with nonferrous fasteners creating electrolysis and hastening oxidation. Better standards for fasteners and ventilation are in order.

100% would love this to become a Rose Anvil style product dissection channel.

Very interesting video. Even these "cheap" frames are very impressive. I was thinking why don't they use stainless steel fittings for the bottle mounts?

Now i wanna see you cut up the elves or the New falath evo and have Rob analyse it. Convince elves its good marketing stunt to donate their brand New frame for testing

For this test to have any validity you would have to cut up a number of frames from that production run. Shoddy manufacturing can mean sloppy construction, inconsistent construction, or both - among other factors like poor QC etc.

Phew! I was just about to pull the trigger on this frame! Thanks 😊

thanks for this video

I always lubricate all screws that thread into the frame because the methods of removing a frozen bolt/screw (solvents, lubricants, tapping, drilling, high torque loads) can damage the frame. Cut a Time and Look apart; the story I have heard is that they are some of the best

interesting video👍

So sounds like the best bet would be to to get only a frame by Trifox, and fork from another brand?

Why do you do THIS. Ride it ! 🤩 Regards from Germany. 🙂👍🤓

I'm riding a cheap Ican frame, it is simply amazing, a lot of bang for my buck

This is cool. Do a trek. I love the treks but that price is getting up there. Would love to see what Im paying for.

I wonder how the Winspace frames look. Got my subscription

Imagine Chinese or Taiwanese frame builders cutting their frames in half like cut up apples for inspection before purchasing.

A very interesting and informative video. Regardless of the frame quality, I personally would prefer to buy non-Chinese products all together. Simply because we have allowed technology to be transferred to China, just to satisfy our desire for cheaper products. I just don’t want to support their economy but prefer to buy European if possible and secondly non Chinese. It would be interesting to see how a “western” frame stack up.

How much lateral flex is that fork really going to experience once there is a thru-axle screwed through there?

Dude you remind me of Owen Hargreaves. Please tell me the guy dremeling that frame had a mask on and I mean a real good mask. Carbon fiber dust is a very dangerous (very carcinogenic) thing to be breathing in. 9:52 that totally caught me off guard hahaha *Sheldon*

Yes Jourdain 👏🏾

Thanks!

I've had more than a fair share of carbon stuff fail. Not all the stuff I've owned has failed because I got ride of it before it failed. But I am 100% convinced that carbon doesn't belong on a bicycle. The bike I have chosen to build is titanium, and the components I've chosen to put on it are made of metals not carbon. I am only stuck with one part left made of carbon and that is the fork. I am searching for someone that can make me a fork design I like, one that looks like the ENVE I have, and I will pay any amount to get it done. I know my bike is heavy and not what I would choose if I was a racer but I don't race. I just want to ride a beautiful bike safely. Your videos exposing the carbon truths are fantastic and I only wish that anyone and everyone considering spending thousands of dollars on a new bike would watch your videos before buying a carbon bike. There is nothing wrong with steel, aluminum, and titanium bikes other than people just think they don't look as cool as carbon. What do they want a bike that is cool and probably won't last 10 years or a bike that is safe and actually worth laying down that hard earned cash. You deserve some type of award for making these videos because they are very educational and well done. 👍👍

You just earned a subscriber.

Maybe if people out there have old carbon frames they are not using or have a frame that got damaged and they don’t use they could send to you for deconstruction.

As seen in the vid, the frame is good for its value, its just that the fork had some issues. To conclude, if I was to buy the frame only and a better carbon fork, would I be more safe than haveeing the stock fork from the frame set?

Good job

They put a lot of effort into making the whole bike safe so I wouldn't write off the fork straight away. We still don't know what those white bits are. The black stuff is thin, but the white bits they're stuck to are thick.

Great finally see a frame cut in half to see the inside and have an expert opinion. Are you gonna do the same with the defy and the elves for comparison? 😂

Its made the same as specialized and trek and giant

I'm not an expert or anything, but at 10:55 you highlight the fact that there is a big problem with the thickness of the carbon fiber in that area and therefore expert Rob would not endorse that frame for that "defect". But it is also observed that there is a large amount of epoxy which, in my opinion, would reinforce all that part, since it is not hollow and if the carbon fiber were to split, that same epoxy would not allow it to split completely and would remain firm. So if the concern is the millimeter thickness of that "defect", then what can you tell me about the thickness of the carbon fiber rims that support the entire weight of the person and the bicycle? I hope you can answer this question because as I said at the beginning I am not an expert in this matter and I would appreciate any comments. I congratulate you for these videos with very important content such as knowing the structure and the demonstrated engineering of these frames in CF for the enjoyment of all of us who are interested in these topics.

I've had this frame since 2020. I ride it as hard as i can and try to break it so it gives me an excuse to buy a new frame. It's still going strong with zero cracks. Seems like they are focusing on the negatives of the frame on the 1st video and this one. It's been working fine for regular people like me that ride their bike everyday. "It's not aero" who cares about that when majority of people riding bikes are not racing. Plus wind blows in different directions. Can you be aero 360 degrees all the time? LOL. It's kinda racist when you say these Chinese people don't know how to design a frame. You don't know their background. You can view it as they designed this frame to minimize cost so they can pass the savings to consumers. This is actually a cool looking frame. Who really is ripping you off, the company who sells you a $500 frame or another who sells a $3000 frame with all the same ingredients but different form? Carbon frames degrade over time, i rather pay less per frame. I also believe there is a law that frames are required to have a strength tolerance in order to sell in western countries.

Hi, great video. Now liked and subscribed. Sorry to be the fun police, but just wanted to add, if you're cutting or grinding carbon you need to wear a dust mask to the correct rating. Carbon dust, when inhaled, is a known carcinogenic 👍🏻

People need to distinguish between Taiwan and Mainland China. There is a difference in quality.

Cut up a top end frame and compare......

I have a trifox X18, and it goes fine in a straight line, but it does wonky stuff in a turns (when not even near the limit either). It is not confidence inspiring at all. Not a bike that can be raced. Probably fine if you are just doing straight fast group rides without many turns.

Interesting and informative. So, it seems... frame good, fork bad.

Hmm, so what is the difference between a ''cheap chinese'' and a ''expensive chinese'' carbon frame? Would you say that Trek carbon bikes have a cheap or expensive chinese carbon frame?

steel is real.. ;) * dan looks at his Chinarello

Surely, Rob must get his hands on high-end current frames that have been accident damaged beyond repair. How about cutting some of those up, considering there is no expense to purchase?

Have you increased you iCloud storage yet?

You know what I'm honestly dying to know. Why have mountain bike frames gotten so heavy in the past 3 years. I would love to see a cut-up because I bet you anything they are using lower grades of carbon to save $$ and also more of it

I want to buy a java lancia gravel carbon but i dont know if is legit it cost around $1800k from ali express

It would be HIGHLY INTERESTING to do a top frame...

Would not surprise me in the least to see all manufactures have similar issues.

Please cut up a Seraph CF gravel bike frame from TAN TAN…..I have two and happy so far.

It's just such a shame that basically all the time it's like: Oh this looks decent for the price, then on the end.... The one most important spot, an essential stress point of the fork: fail....My personal question: when did you order the frame? Was that shortly after/before Chinese newyear? Edit: Also curious if you contact the manufacturer and what their response is.

Why not use a broken (run over?) frame for inspection?

Those forks become an assembly once the wheel is installed, so squeezing the fork legs in that direction doesn't make much sense.

>Personally gonna keep buying cheaper frames direct from asia/"manufacturer". After all pretty much all frames are made in china these days so... what's the difference.(/?) Well... if put 1 and 1 together, after the expert said "not about material, its about the R&D/know what your doing"... It might just be a sample size of one, but this one clearly brings into question if do they really know what they're doing (or enough)* and what is the state of their research/R&D. So yeah for peace of mind/safety, it is actually a good idea to just stick to well established brands with a proven record/blatantly know what they're doing, instead of like this vid has shown potentially risking it with these frames. *Or... if they actually care about the potential risks/reduced material integrity from the corners(/costs) they cut.

send to manufacturer, make them concern more about the weak point, make the most CP items for biker

Exactly why I never bought into the whole carbon fiber thing.

It’s still more reliable than those expensive European press fit bb bikes

"What is the difference?".. Well, good brands do a lot of testing, create workplaces and pay taxes in countries, where consumers live.

Best thing you did to that frame.

Subscribed to make you feel better. 🕯

Who cares what it's made of or how its made as long as it doesn't break.

Shame someone couldn’t donate an older carbon frame from a well know make and compare be interesting 😊

So what is the difference?

Surely you should be wearing a mask while using powdered cutters on that stuff.

it's a pain cause that kind of frame is well made here in my country it's a high end type of frame and it's not cheap

now elves cut. yes.

Cheap is from higher productivity and mass production. Expensive bikes from UK or Germany are not because of better quality. It's because lower productivity and smaller production. Plus, charged too much.

its already tested, most bike manufacturers had it made in china, it's an open secret.

Summary: “that’s the best Carbon frame I’ve ever seen” 😂 Awww crap.

Any chinese here? I think you pick some good condition carbon fiber frame, hoping you can cut some more cheap and cheat one, just like Chinarello or Chinavelo.

How about buying second hand carbon frame from big brand to do comparison video? It may be even damaged and cost less than this chinese one

"All frames are made in China, so what's the difference?" Well, supervision of manufacturing by the western bands' buyers agents. The buy direct stuff, I totally agree, is aiming to make a quid, and you don't make quids for long if your product breaks too easily, however... with less supervision, a product scope aimed at cheap (not necessarily affordable) and the fact that cheaper manufacturers are often "chancers" who've bought a turnkey bicycle factory on credit, you're getting what you pay for - weight, flex and the occasional ***CRACK!*** I ride on a budget and do cycle touring rather than racing. I ride fluid formed aluminium or steel, although the latter is getting pricier than alloy these days. If I were looking for speed at a "clubby" level, I'd probably stick with brands like Giant or Reid to stay within something approaching my budget in carbon. "Uncle Ho's Cheap Chinese Bicycle Company" are happy to sell to us, but then we're without support once it goes in the crate and ships. Would you put your kid on a carbon bike that might crack?

So it is just the fork. Can be replaced

If you see inside of carbon frames made it by cube or canyon...you laugh a loot.🤣