slightly confused? Are people saying that within a system if I fly smart and don't go point to point i am depriving pirates of their content. Even EVE did not go that far, once you cleared gates you had bounce positions to avoid the direct point to point travel to specifically avoid being bubbled by people. Conversely when I did roams you had to work hard to catch people and many a night was spent not catching much at all, what is the issue with having to spend time to partake in what is meant to be a very speculary type of gameplay. I believe if the "you have to travel a particular route so i can catch you" mechanic is implemented there will soon be more pirates than cargo haulers in Star C. could be wrong but that's my gut feeling. I like some risk but both sides have to be able to play the way they want to and that is the huge problem we have to all come up with a solution for.

There needs to have a PVE exclusive loop, because profit for moving goods is SOOO minimal. You make like 10% of what you invest. If you get pirated 1 of 10 times you basically just did it for free. No point of even doing cargo. PVP should be for drugs or contraband only, or in pirate systems.

My buddy showed me your vids! This would be the entire making of mmo star citizen making cargo into that would ensure every other role in the verse would flourish after in an orderly line. Another friend had the idea of Trade Jump points that only act upon the other SCU value (can’t fly an arrow in there) maybe make the quantum faster (wormhole) it could be the OM camping you spoke of but would make that a risk more so in one system over another. But again I say Cargo being in a cycled state of loops would make piracy loop mining loop and then when pathfinder roles come in looking for maybe less risky routes but with a higher quantum travel and a risk on fuel ammo etc. hope to catch a live soon! Thanks again

pvp'rs just want the cargo ships to fly directly to them so they don't have to do any work, The idea of only allowing large ships to move planet to planet is a double edged sword.. Small pirate ships would not be able to move around stanton as well. You'll need a carrier

I was at the cit con after party and specifically asked CR about the halo gates and went full CR about them and new astroid tech 😅 so they are def still planned.

32:38 “You have to make the player base consume their vegetables…” 🥦🥕damn that’s good 😂👍 123

The problem is that items and ships are not limited. If you put a limit on them and that only gets restocked if cargo regularly arrives then you solve it naturally. If you cannot get a replacement ship from insurance because there is none on the market well fuck me. That's the other thing they should change, if your ship is destroyed you should get the money for the ship back and not a full ready to go ship. That combined with a limited amount of ships on the market would encourage trading Regarding interdiction, you need to realize that EVE and SC have the same system regarding interdiction, you can jump from gates to gates directly in EVE but you will die. To survive you need to scout ahead and create gate points at around 150-200km off the gate to the side, top and so on so that you don't get cought in a bubble. Serious players do that in EVE so your point of too many options in SC does not stand. What SC needs are more interdiction capable ships and maybe items , stationary bubbles to drop by players from any ship

So basically PvP ers cry that haulers don’t approach them going “please pirate me.” A bit weird. Also when so called pirates get to fight a cargo hauler they destroy the ship and leave the cargo be most of the times. So what is the point beside getting to kill a other player. Also cargo haulers risk a lot, miners risk quite a bit, salvagers risk quite a bit. What do pvpers risk? Nothing. So let them work for it. And don’t ask CIG to force ppl into death traps 😂.

Interesting vid! Thank you very much for that! In regards to cargo hauling and pirates and trying to add another interesting/exciting/meaningful yet balanced gameplay loop - here's a few thoughts: Note that of course the following idea isn't completely fleshed out but it's to give a very rough framework. So since we're using "quantum tech" we could have a flip side to this, which is whenever you spool up your quantum drive, your location becomes visible to the lawful governments of a system in REAL time - not all of a system's inhabitants, JUST the governments, who use this info to coordinate travel. This is to establish an automated ship proxy communication system so that pilots don't coincidentally plot routes that will have them quantum jump into the same space killing both crews.. this is just as it is now and not noticeable by the player but just happens in the background. Pirates could hire data runners to hack this government ship tracking system to get that real time info. Pirates receive the live data stream and start plotting an interception. The live data stream will be maintained by hackers as long as they maintain the connection (with it's own game loop). Cargo haulers do the same and hire data runners to monitor their Quantum ship signatures on the government servers to see if they're being monitored and alert shippers of probable interdiction. Payment for hackers starts upon connection and is by the second until connection dropped or the client runs out of funds. Players with a crime stat are allowed to connect and use the system on the basis that it's good for all to avoid these types of accidents and in return governments agree not to actively hunt these pirates (knowing their locations) unless a distress call is put in that has the pirates ship signature attached. Pirates that don't want their location being monitored could hire very expensive hacking / data running services to wipe their location/vector records from the quantum ship tracking network. Also Hackers/ data runners could mine the location of players with a crime stat and sell this dated info or even real time tracking (much more expensive) to bounty hunters. Note that the hiring of escorts becomes meaningful as well, regardless of whether or not the shipper is aware of a possible interdiction - it's another level of safety added to the travel arrangement. AI could be hired to act as escorts but I'd recommend to have these AI use not very good ships and be very low tier pilots/crews. The idea is the AI would buy you time to put out a distress call and raise your chance of surviving. If you want a REAL escort you'll be wanting a player controlled ship. With the use of data runners / bounty hunters / escorts, SC will badly need a reputation system. Ok there it is..

Surprised to hear him say mining has no upfront cost. Guess he doesn't play other gameloops. Mining Heads, gadgets, refinement and yes time are all up front cost of mining. Piracy is the only gameloop that requires no investment to see rewards. Not sure it deserves to be easier. Cargo hauling feeds the piracy gameloop. If you want more piracy then profit margins on commodities should be higher.

Love your vids, man! Keep up the good work!

This is easy. 1.Game gives mission to players to interdict cargo vessels at this location. If no cargo ships are found in time, they get paid half pay. 2. Game gives cargo player a cargo job from point A to point B. Players run into each other with counter motives...

Another cool concept with space lanes, create WWII style convoys. If cargo runners could link up, and run the main lane together, then branch out to final destinations. Then all those big turrets on cargo vessels would be deadly. And still have a few escorts that get paid by all in convoy. Raising their rates, while lowering cost to haulers. Just something I've always wanted to see in SC. Fleet battles in a way.

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Stanton is supposed to be a mid-sec system. So, it currently work pretty much as intended. Also, a big reason for at least why I don't haul more cargo at the moment is because of all the bugs. When ships randomly explodes, that's an incentive to not having to invest in cargo. Long boring wait must be the cost of piracy,. Because, if it becomes too east to find other ships, then there will never be any other players to pirate except other pirates. When we have multiple systems, putting most of the Quantum and Gold ore in Pyro, but not really having anywhere there to sell the refined material, and there will be choke-points at refineries and jump points for pirates to exploit. Hopefully, the reasons the money-sinks are not in play at the moment is due to the bugs. While there are a lot of players with multiple millions aUEC in their accounts, a lot more have not, and if they would have to buy a new set of components each time, that would drop the retention. But, for the game to function when completed, all the money sinks talked about has to be there and actually cost. A full wipe would most likely improve the situation to get jump town and the like to draw attention again. Oh, and make selling drugs dependent of having a good standing with the crime organizations. A nobody wanting to sell a pile of bags to a syndicate should get a bullet, not money.

IMO 9 NPC to every single RLP with even 10 systems, you will encounter PVP but in mostly major landing zones and stations. Some will have high security and some will not. Space is huge dark and very dangerous. Space will be just as lethal as another player once all is done. If your a smart player, there are ways around most interdiction, but that will take prep and proper equipment. We've already had a patch, where players were interdicted constantly and it was not fun. Getting interdicted 4 times crossing Stanton is too much. SC Needs to be well balanced between PVP & PVE .

Comparison to Eve is very weak, the gates are not the only places piracy occurs, not even a quarter. People complaining in SC for the lack of opportunities have not played Eve much. Sign of a lack of imagination and complete lack of effort. I started to play eve at the end of 2005 and yes the gates are dangerous places, and the most common place i've died is a drag bubble that's placed on my flight path. There is vast amount of opportunities to catch people. Problem is that kids nowdays are lazy af and everything has to be easy. We cannot measure opportunities by opinnions of impatient streamers who don't have mental capacity to figure out strategies for long game.

A few thoughts on the early point of if just cargo space matters for cargo ships. I think there's a few more things that should matter: - Upkeep cost: Fuel, Component Decay, Crew. This one should be high enough to be relevant and considerable eating into your profits. Making smaller ships way more sensible for smaller missions than big ones. - Capabilities: Things like which jump points can a ship go through, can it land, can it easily transport vehicles and that sort of stuff. This is more of a hard lock for what missions your trade ship can even do. - Security: How easily you can avoid or defend from pirates and the like. Similar to upkeep cost this somewhat dictates what missions are good for the ship, by reducing profits in high risk areas, cause you will loose your stuff more often. - Accessability: How easy it is to load and unload cargo and vehicles, thus speeding up how fast you can complete a mission. - Offensive capability: This one is not as much for trading yourself, but rather for piracy. Stuff like the corsairs heavy front facing weaponry is not that useful for defense against pirates in smaller ships, but is useful to help out taking down a cargo ship, while also having cargo capacity to take on a decent amount of cargo you pirated.

A lot of this makes sense. A reason to make credits is the biggest part I agree with. I just wonder how many new players who seem to be credit hogs will react to actually paying for things like fuel parking etc. I also say don't get rid of interdiction. But make it something different than we see right now, more tracking tools, plus counters to those tracking tools. flesh it out into a cat and mouse game where both the cat and mouse can feel accomplishment/defeat. Even losing should feel like "man that was fun". I am not entirely sure what that would look like from a play mechanics side, but I know it can be done.

26:00 Time spent (currency per hour) was an huge incentive in GTA online. Honestly a 30-40% difference could be the inflection point.

So what I'm gathering from this is "NOOOOOO PIRACY SHOULD BE EASY!!! YOU SHOULD HAVE TO TAKE SPECIFIC ROUTES SO I CAN CATCH YOOOOUUUUUUU!!!!" Like dude, even Eve, which has specific jump points and routes, has many ways for players to work around getting ganked. My corp sets up fast warp points set up on any of the gates we use to get to major trade hubs or systems we're dealing with combat in. Even in my huge haulers, there are tricks where you can align, activate cloak, then boost towards your aligned point and jump. The total time I am able to spend uncloaked and able to be tracked and targeted is, as long as I'm on top of it, less than three quarters of a second. I pride myself in not being able to be caught. I will be able to do the same in SC regardless. Sometimes you go to pirate a corp and you don't catch anyone out, that's part of the game. Do you think pirates were actually waiting along popular trade routes back in the day? They were on the less popular ones, trade routes that would get used, but rarely, as it was less likely for them to face governmental intervention. Crying about "NO PIRATING SHOULD BE EASY NOT HARD" is insane to me.

There is a pve experience. You simply just fill the server with people from your own group 😅

Freelancer, yeah one those guys. The trade lanes ringed accelerators space highways that link POIs and worlds.

there is supposed to be a gate in the Stanton asteroid belt that funnels people. aside from that, shipping lanes are a bit of an abstract concept. say that and some people will start picturing silly things like 4 lane highways in space. just like irl shipping lanes that aren't marked out in the ocean, most major trades should be trading port to port, which are the stations in game. if you are using a big ship and trying to go to a city, you are trading wrong and shouldn't be wasting time. smaller ships go from moons to cities and port to cities. irl is the game model, there should be no confusion as to how this works. currently pirates can limit angles by position themselves closer the major ports. which aren't used properly by the devs currently. the whole thing is FUBAR actually lol... although, yeah, if funnels like "risky shortcuts" that players can QT to, fly through, then QT again, and/or some other logically acceptable angle limiters could be added it would make piracy easier with less zone camping.

33:10 - This also gives more loop for SRVs 36:38 - Yeah, but that doesnt sound organic. It sounds like Elite; where no mission giver had any fucking sense of security either, and pirates knew instantly when you had cargo as if by ESP, yet you were stuck with the risk. Then as a hauler, you knew that you'd be intercepted on your second shift, so you turned your back to the star.....then pirates we able to drive through stars and black holes. It wasn't immersive, it was stupid. If it's done this way, it had better pay up very very well as every cargo mission is a certain risk of death, or the massive increases to insurance. "Hey, thanks for taking this shipping load through the straights. We desperately need it for our business to run and for our reputation, btw, we notified the Huthis that you are an easy mark and they want it too; but its your responsibility if it fails; the reputation hit will be yours as well as financial loss, thanks." It shouldnt be automatic if at all. DO somethign where a ship like the Herald or the MSR can "monitor" a building or server, and if the player takes the mission during that time, the hacker has that data to sell to pirates or whatnot. This way the player doesnt feel like the mission giver sold them out as some sort of self-destructive pleasure. 40:00 - That sound better IMO, have something set up like mass effect, there is some connection between gates that lets the ships consume less fuel if they follow established routes. Add that risk reward. Yeah, you could go off route....but will burn most of your fuel. Or you may need to resort to a slower drive and have the trip take twice as long to compensate for the off-road travel. 40:27 - Trebuchet "gates" that help bring you to full acceleration, saving a load on fuel and efficiency costs. Highly recommended everyone is strapped to their seats. 44:34 - Well maybe not all pirates can drink from the firehose of a main shipping lane to a remote area. With server meshing, during the time of an interdiction, you might catch more than 3 groups, and some may be able to fight. 49:48 - Dont tell the players. Give exploration vessels without the fuel tanks of a Carrack a way to make money, please. I really wish more people would think of other loops before "CIG can just give it to me". Let the explorer determine if they sell to pirates as well. Let them balance their reputation with other players.

What if they added some sort of QT sensors that you could deploy along travel lanes? They could alert you when someone traveled past them, letting you know that someone is in that lane

No need to constraint freedom of howling. With server meshing, they're will be so much transport ships that the pirates will have plenty of targets.

Great vid, cargo and risk of pvp is the balance Mana. Safe routes vs high risk routes just for economy balance risk vs reward, bring it on.

Increase quantum fuel prices, put in mini gates that reduce travel time and fuel that travel from one planet to the other, could even limit each planet only having 2 gates to travel with Incentives and creates lucrative trade lanes.

I'm so glad i got to see the laminate rush

3, to the 1, algo check.

What about going the other route and increase intel. The MSR and herald can gain system wide intel on traffic and sell it or inform pirate buddies where to go. 123

Why is the plan to make piracy easier? No. The problem is the lack of content. Bring the content and bring more players on a server and they’ll have more to pirate. Pirates can wait for content like the rest of us instead of crying for a bandage to give them an advantage. Piracy is an effect of players taking advantage of what can be taken advantage of. You shouldn’t be building a system specifically to help pirating. Build the distribution system, economy, etc. then you’ll naturally get piracy.

123 The piracy missions shouldn't be assigned. Instead they should be hacked at a place line SPK. Maybe a trade station. But it should be initiated by the player at any time.

Bla bla bla station far out may be easier for piracy but you forget the factor time. If you think as industrial player the calculation looks more like is the time to fly out there more worth than the 2% refinery bonus? Just a thinking point. Risk vs reward, where is the factor time and stake aka what you had to invest upfront?

Totally agree in the economy part.

This entire video is just asking to give the predators easier prey. This will never happen. Predators should have to compete with other predators to become the top of the dominance hierarchy and they, at the top, get the prey. Stanton will become even harder to pirate traders when Pyro comes out.

Love the idea of the cargo missions chaining escort and pirate missions along with them... the pirate missions being just a pop-up type on the screen (even though I absolutely hate that because TMI overload causes you to miss those often unless you're sitting there waiting for one) and the escort mission would have to be accepted before you leave station so your escort is present and in your fleet/party. Not OK with the trade lanes idea. Most players don't put in the time to random warp, cancel and warp into their target from a new trajectory, thus, foiling a trade lane interdiction. pvp'ers/pirates will have to realize that if they don't want the game to be simple AF to learn... they might have to LEARN a few things themselves like how to determine where to find targets best. CR said there would be PIRACY, he never said he'd make an EASY BUTTON for it. With server meshing many of these things will change because locations will become the server shard.. so people there might be from all different regions of the world rather than a different server for each of these regions.. therefore we should see more people per location, if I'm calculating this right. So in short, just as PVP minded players don't want flight mechanics dumbed down to make it easy for the NOVICE to dogfight along with the best of them.. I think it's safe to say that the larger percentage of the community won't want to give PIRACY and EASY BUTTON to drop targets in a poor mistreated pirates lap either.

You can tell those who played eve on low sec/null sec and those who never left hi-sec tutorial 😂

The gratest weakness is there isn't a reason to earn money bacause there's no reason to buy more stuff than we are able to accumulate. The mining will be more appealing when there is a reason to mine specific minerals in the trend of the most required at that moment.

Being able to track people's quantum trails will make things interesting. i don't think linking the piracy into cargo missions will work because you could have a mass gang of pirates ganking every mission, nah i don't think it would work. Gates to other systems will change things again for piracy but within a system I really think there has to be a change to how interdiction works but we'll see what happens when we can track people's quantum trail and know where there have gone and maybe set up where we think they might be going. Definitely need the cost of living to go up, rent, food, repairs, fuel, etc. Absolutely. I love interdiction but like you said, with free Quantum jumping it will make it even worse.

Q-snare Devices need a 25 000 km effect bubble

Please add chapters to these kinds of videos (:

While I agree that stuff should get more expensive, but as a kind of new player who dabbles around the game not knowing what to do. I don't want to just RMC trade or salvage to get that money. For Cargo hauling RMC is the king which is completely stupid imO. It is not just a little better than the second place it is by far the best there is basically no comparisson. Which is boring. It needs more different comodities to trade that actually make sense. Salvaging so far is fun for me, but even in my vulture the payout is little. imO. There should need to be a lot more different things adjusting before credit sinks come in.

Make PvP compulsory and heamorrhage players. That's the reality. MM has made cargo ships into pinatas, MM has been a disaster for haulers. Make cargo missions trigger PvP opposition and wathc the play of them dry up.; Because CIG don't understand risk and reward and have no real grasp of law or reputation. Its not economically viable to hire escorts.

Isnt the problem just player population?

Fix the economy and piracy will happen naturally. People are legit raging over there being no PVP when CIG has still yet to deliver stuff they promised in 2018. They need more things like JT and GH then its high risk high reward for everyone.

i dont understand this at all isnt pirating supposed to be somewhat rare, even now I don't consider it rare, if you spend a day jumping straight from point to point on a decently populated server you are almost guaranteed to get pirated at least once. I have run into pirates at least once everyday for the last two days once on foot and once I was interdicted in space and that's with me not going straight from point to point. If the chances of running into pirates are higher than not running into pirates even with smart trade routes then what is even the point of running cargo.

Y'all are some of the whiniest pirates ever in the history of piracy. CR has said that when the game is released the chances of you running into another player is going to be slim just because of the scope of it all. Get a real job in a lawful system or go hang out in lawless systems. People will eventually get bored, brave or stupid and wander into those systems.

Cargo was not so great for the 600 lol .

There is nothing fun about your economy suggestions. I understand what you are aiming for but all the economy suggestions would do is make people want to play less, not more. We need systems that are FUN. Engagement should be increased with fun mechanics that people want to use. Not the kind of economy changes you are suggesting that hamstring people’s ability to play the game. Immediately after you made those suggestions the video creator made thr great example of the cargos + piracy mission pairing. This is a FUN solution. All the economy changes you suggested before this would prevent some people engaging in a fun mechanic like this therefore they would not improve the enjoyment of the game for people imho. I do agree we need more things to spend our money on but basic gameplay should not be prevented by it.

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