Hi Randal, you mentioned sometime that you could show us how to take care of sleeping bags when you are using them a LOT like all the time rather than just a short weekend. So how do you keep them clean? Do you wash them - surely there is no dry cleaning in the military? Not sure it even fits in a domestic washing machine. So is there some special treatment or care needed? Thanks!

Hi ! Did you ever tried it under -5°C? What was your feeling? I plan to sleep with mine by - 8/-10 under tarp. Sound good for you with a merinos underwear and a hat? thanks and very nice chanel

If you're ok with the cold, that should be fine. The closest I've slept with mine was -10C and I had the ECWCS waffles on, and a tent. I was pretty comfortable, especially for not being a winter guy

@@GruntProof perfect, thanks for the prompt answer. I like to get warm while sleeping so i will wear a uniqlo heattech on

It has been a few years now, does your recommendation still stand?

🍻

Thank you! Yes I realized I had misspoken too late

Thanks a lot man! And I appreciate the input

I personally used the Defence 1 at 2°C in a bivy bag and was toasty warm. Great bag.

Thanks!

Thanks!

Gotcha, thanks!

Thanks! I've been told that Eberlestok is just the Catinthia for the US

The MSS is still a great system!

@@GruntProof The best !

Thanks! I don't suffer in the cold anymore 👍😎

@@GruntProof was just trying to pass on my exp. They also make hoodless sleeping bags. Watching ur play list now. The car wash hose on the swagman roll was priceless.

Input is always much appreciated!

"Polartec silkweight" most likely (ninja base layer) fyi

Not for me at least, but I'm a cold sleeper. In the winter I'm usually in the ninjas and "waffle" stuff anyway

@@GruntProof Yeah, I'm a cold sleeper too.

Thanks dude. We have a lot of work to do. Next video should be your knife collection!

Thanks!

🤣🤣 I've been digging the marine stuff and will get to it, especially their sleep system. I just acquired some prized marine stuff that I will talk about soon. Thanks!

Hell yea!

You'll love it

yea it's pretty sweet and unless you're sleeping in the rain you don't need a bivy

Garmin Tactix

What's the British version's name?

Yeah +1 for what's the British version called?

@@SniffBackBetter sorry didn't see these! It is just the British Modular sleep system.

@@senorwilliams3969 sorry didn't see these! It is just the British Modular sleep system.

Awesome! I think it's the same warmth you get with the MSS bivy and intermediate bag but less bulk and weight.

@@GruntProof packed up my bag today, definitely underestimated the pack volume winter bags take up. I even beat up the carinthia a bit more and got it even smaller but with 3 days of food and a standard thru hike load out and only 2.1L of water I am topped out. Do you happen to have one of those smaller USMC sealine compression sacks with the one way valve? If so are you able to appreciably get the carinthia smaller than its standard stuff sack? Trying to see if it is worth buying.

I don't use the stuff sacks. You always lose space that way.

@@GruntProof just a FYI if anyone is curious, got the USMC sealine compression sack in the mail today and was able to get the size about 10-15% smaller. Since I run Ultralight packs on my long trips I can’t go w/o a compression bag.. you aren’t able to push against the ruck enough to get the bag compressed, you’d tear it apart.

Ok cool. Yea I give the UL people crap for that one 🤣

Thanks! I think at your height you'd struggle in any bag. But this is the roomiest sleeping bag I have used.

Hm. What are the complaints?

@@GruntProof To heavy, to bulky. It cannot be used up to the specified temperature. You freeze too quickly in it. Those who advertise it have never really used it. The thing is just hyped. The zipper in the middle is not good, because You can´t use it as a blanket. And there is a discussion how to use it the right way. some say you have to sleep with al your clothes on within the sleeping bag, because it´s a military sleeping bag and soldiers have to sleep that way, because they must always be ready to go. Other people say no, you have to sleep only in your boxershort and if you wear all your clothes the system doesn´t work, because there is not enough air in it, which can be warmed. This dispute how to sleep correctly in your bag exists even in the german military. I think it´s a miltitary sleeping bag. The focus is on durability and low costs. Yes of cours, I can by a expensive lightweight, small down Sleeping bag. But, the usage is not that one for what the defense 4 was built. The defense 4 is relatively cheap and very robust and keeps you warm enough under normal Central European conditions. That's why he's so popular. It is also designed so that you can put the Carinthia tropical sleeping bag in the Defense 4 for even colder temperatures.

Ah ha

@@GruntProof It´s complicated and and I don't quite understand it either.

@@GruntProof I have it too, and my complaint is when you are inside, having the small hole to breathe, you get condensation, and you get the cold air through the hole and your shoulders get really cold. I miss a warm collar like in the Def 6

Thanks

@@GruntProof From an old turret head with compliments.

I honestly doubt the MSS can do those temps. The lowest I've done was -20 c

​@@GruntProof Yeah, the MSS claims that when all 3 bags are used together the system is rated to provide 4 hours sleep at -40° F (-40º C) and they also claim that when you add ECWCS Layer 7 it can potentially provide a combined warmth down to -50º F (-45º C). Now obviously these may be under unrealistic, ideal conditions. If anyone knows the truth of these claims it's guys like you. Thanks for all the excellent reviews and testing you do.

I've met guys who slept like that and they said outside of army training conditions, that would be doable

There no secluded woods in Germany. 1. Map recon: look for places without trails nearby 2. Site recon: hike the area to look for hunting stands and other "people stuff" you couldn't see on the map. 3. Be prepared to leave I've found that the only people in the woods in Germany are crazies like us or Hunters. And the hunters usually show up in their jeeps

Thanks for the input! Germany can offer the coldest winter in the summer 🤣

@@GruntProof haha yes^^ thanks for the output! amazing channel, I wish I found it earlier.

I'm a baby and try to avoid miserable :p. Which is why I think I should just take the weight. and space.

@@icas80 you have to warm up the bag so he can keep you warm, if you have too much dead air space to heat, it is less effective. A narrow sleeping bag may be less comfortable, but will be more efficient. As a civilian and baby^^ I would think twice if I really need a military bag which was made with military applications in mind.

@@couchcamperTM I really like the idea of having the pad in the bag

It's outstanding, just not comfortable for me

I have enough crap to keep

Condor watch cap. They come in cheap 3 packs

Doesn't seem like it, not like the MSS

The defence 4 is definitely warmer - newer technology. It's also a lot more moisture resistant. I just don't like the full enclosure of it.

@@GruntProof thank you for the quick response. If this anoying you check out the carinthia brenta. It‘s a sidezipper design with the attributes from the def4. It fit‘s perfectly with the mss bivy.

Cool! Yea I've used it in the open with the Bivy, around -7 C and was fine.

@@GruntProof www.carinthia.eu/en/brenta-p1468/

no

Got it

Thanks

I ended up making a video on it. More of a PSA and not a review. A watch before you buy kind of thing. I linked back to this grunt proof review. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/q9aYZN1_yceqmac.html

Single but they can be combined

Thanks

@@GruntProof no problem just be advised it's a much lighter outer material - similar to lightweight running shorts. So you really have to be careful with it but I've used it under a poncho for over 2 months below freezing and last week for 2 nights at around negative 13 Celcius +-8f with no bivy and wasn't cold - ok I slept in my Carinthia LIG 3 midlayer but still. Compresses to 25*23cm.

from Firstlite

No

I have not, but I'd love to get my hands on one!

@@GruntProof np. already bought it. looking forward to use it - in austria. :)

Garmin Tactix

Yup! 🤘😎🤘

No

Austria $259. Kinda expensive but maybe not for this kind of quality. I’m going to buy one

Garmin Tactix Bravo

@@GruntProof thanks, is it grunt proof? Didn't see it in your Amazon links

So far it's great. I'll do a video on it this spring

Got it

Thanks, I am aware of the mistake. Decathlon is awesome! We have really huge outdoor stores in the US, but everything is insanely expensive. I have never see prices like Decathlon, for good quality stuff.

@@GruntProof hm... The quality of solognac is not always good. There are lot of Outdoor companies with cheap Special Brands in Germany. Check Out globetrotter.de=> friluftsliv. Not so cheap, but more quality. And by the way: I have a Special norwegian Military underwear to Test. Brynje super Thermo- perfect for rucking in freezing tempratures and the next Christopher Street Day. But absolute amazing.

I've used both. Across the span of 15 years I've gone (not in that order) through one (inaptly named) Wiggys "Superlight" and three Carinthia Defense 4, for personal pleasure but also supervising groups in French mountains. Spoiler : I went back to Carinthia. Both types provided me with ample margin in warmth and toughness for me to not need to babysit my equipment and my own person, and being able to focus on my clients instead. When I first got the Wiggys, I thought like you, that my Carinthia days were over. It only had two cons : not as windproof, and much bulkier. I slept down to -17°C in the Superlight, without any shelter, on a thin Ridgerest mat, in actual proper resting comfort, even once slipping off my mat and onto raw ice without really noticing it before the morning. That would have been beyond the Defence 4. Nevertheless I switched back to Carinthia, mainly for three reasons. The main one was that the Wiggys lost its performance VERY quickly. After two winters the warmth just wasn't worth the bulk anymore. The Defence 4 loses performance with time too, but it seems much more slowly so. The second reason was that that windproofness, which was really extremely convenient when not taking a lot of care of my own shelter. However my newer Defence 4 have a much thinner shell than the older ones, and feel less moisture resistant and less windproof. The third reason was the overall ease of use of the Defense 4. For example the zipper, it's is so much better on the Carinthia, everything just goes as you expect. The Wiggys kept catching in every way. Same for the adjustments. (But I've been very enthusiastic about the Wiggys and some days I'm tempted to try Wiggys again ; but then I remember the bulk and I feel fine. Plus I don't do this job anymore...)

It's personal preference with tattoos

@@GruntProof ' I was just wondering if it had a meaning. You Army types always come up with some cool labels so was just wondering. 73's.. Puddle Pirate sends.