Not again!?! Defective parts installed in '79 Nova engine rebuild. CAR WIZARD inspects the damage

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Car Wizard

Car Wizard

2 жыл бұрын

How can there be two cars in the CAR WIZARD's 🧙‍♂️ shop that both have defective cams and lifters?!? The 1979 Chevy Nova was so close to being done, and now as the name of the car translated in Spanish, it's a real 'No Go'. How bad is the damage and what's the next step?
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Пікірлер: 1 400
@joe6096
@joe6096 2 жыл бұрын
Among the many issues with the supply chain and lack of availability of parts in America due to sending out our jobs overseas, what's been lost here are quality tool and die setters and machinists. People you can bring blueprints to and they can fabricate those lifters and cams with the best material to perfect spec. Old school machinists are really much of what our country was built on. We NEED well trained, highly precise machinists still today.
@brentboswell1294
@brentboswell1294 2 жыл бұрын
Mexico was building Ford 302's and 351's with flat tappets into the 2000's...gotta be some of those guys who are still around from the factory!
@joshuagibson2520
@joshuagibson2520 2 жыл бұрын
As a lifelong machinist I support this comment. Instead college is crammed down the throats of our young folks these days, when schools should be signing the praises of trades like machining, welding, etc. We also need truck drivers. When I look at ads for jobs, trucking always seems to be the most abundant.
@Welcometofacsistube
@Welcometofacsistube 2 жыл бұрын
As a professional machinist of 17 years, I concur
@joshuagibson2520
@joshuagibson2520 2 жыл бұрын
@Richard Cranium Mike Rowe is dead on the money. He is one of the few voices of reasons we have left in this country.
@joshuagibson2520
@joshuagibson2520 2 жыл бұрын
@Richard Cranium lmao. I love your name there "dick head". Awesome.
@2packs4sure
@2packs4sure 2 жыл бұрын
This is a issue that's been going on for quite a few years now and what I've told my buddies is if they have a stock engine they're rebuilding to stock and the original cam and lifters are in good condition keep them in order and reuse them...
@timewa851
@timewa851 2 жыл бұрын
always had luck with re-spray build up using old as cores from a reputable shop too. cam & lifters. Send yours out, wait, get them back.
@funnypranker34
@funnypranker34 2 жыл бұрын
This is where overhead cam engines shine in terms of rebuilding the top end. Long as the break in process was done correctly and the part isn’t a sub par part, all is well. I had to install a new cam on my Beamer because the old one got wiped out from a bent valve. I was able to source a brand new genuine bmw camshaft for my car and 8000 miles later no issues at all
@tonywestvirginia
@tonywestvirginia 2 жыл бұрын
Mid to late 70's GM and Ford cars had this problem. Pintos eating camshafts small block Chevy's having this same problem that you are repairing now. I was working on these cars for a living just like you but, back in the day. Thanks for all your videos. I really enjoy them.
@2packs4sure
@2packs4sure 2 жыл бұрын
@@tonywestvirginia I think the early Toyota 5.7 V8's had soft camshafts too..
@whichgodofthousandsmeansno5306
@whichgodofthousandsmeansno5306 2 жыл бұрын
I had it happen on a 1969 440 in my Roadrunner. And it was a Mopar purple stripe cam and lifter kit. I got a few thousands miles out of it and then... same exact thing we see here.
@SalemTechsperts
@SalemTechsperts 2 жыл бұрын
Dude, as someone who has had to stop repairing MULTIPLE devices due to a lack of reliable parts, I FEEL this video. It's gotten to the point I have to buy 4 of each part hoping 1 of them works correctly. It really grinds you down to the point you start questioning your entire business. The fact that it's just as bad in your industry should be concerning to everyone in the US. Imagine what else is being repaired with the same crap material that we get...bridges, power stations, the electrical grid...It's scary!
@GrandMoffJoseph
@GrandMoffJoseph 2 жыл бұрын
Just want to say that it's refreshing to hear a boss/manager be so transparent in saying 'hey I thought my team wasn't doing a task right but it turns out that wasn't the case and I feel bad about it.' It may sound odd to say, but that willingness to walk something back and reassess also goes a long way to building trust with your employees, and show them that you have their back.
@rollydoucet8909
@rollydoucet8909 2 жыл бұрын
We've been in the engine rebuilding trade since 1969. The cam & lifter (wearing) issue first came to our attention during the late 1990's and early 2000's when the motor oil companies started cutting back on the zinc contents of the oil. This time, it's due to inferior quality, offshore manufactured lifter that wear away quickly and chew up the camshafts, even though all precautions and preparations are followed during assembly with the proper lubricants. Still, the providers of cam & lifter kits deny responsibility.
@wayland7150
@wayland7150 2 жыл бұрын
It seems crazy that they'd go to the effort of making a cam but waste that effort due to the wrong material.
@rollydoucet8909
@rollydoucet8909 2 жыл бұрын
@@wayland7150 Cam manufacturers make cams, period!. Other components such as lifters, springs, retainers, rocker arms, valve locks, lash caps etc etc are provided by subcontractors. The recent rash of cam & lifter failures is the result of lifters that were cheaply made in offshore plants, presumably Chinese, and the lifters wiped out the camshafts. On such company, a very well known COMPetition cam manufacturer says the failures are the result of people using the wrong oil.
@juliogonzo2718
@juliogonzo2718 2 жыл бұрын
@@rollydoucet8909 if a big name COMPetition cam company told me that I would mail them a box of dog shit addressed to whoever's name was on the thing telling me it was my fault.
@Milkmans_Son
@Milkmans_Son 2 жыл бұрын
Well there still isn't any zinc in the oil, so how exactly did that problem go away?
@rollydoucet8909
@rollydoucet8909 2 жыл бұрын
@@Milkmans_Son There are many motor oils available that contain zinc. Just read the label on the back and look for the word ZINC. If it's not on the label, it's not in the oil. PENN GRADE, the High Performance Motor Oil is the most popular in our area.
@89must
@89must 2 жыл бұрын
When using flat tappet cams proper break in, and break in lube are a must including oil high in zinc
@kevinhicks5088
@kevinhicks5088 2 жыл бұрын
I agree I'm not hearing about a proper break. Also oils aren't the same need a good quality zinc for breakin
@CoreMaster111
@CoreMaster111 2 жыл бұрын
As I understand there are many many issues with "flat" lifters that you have to pay attention to. Hydraulic lifter collapses? TRASH! Lifter machined too short? ( Remanufactured?) TRASH! "Flat" lifter doesn't have crown ( convex surface ) on lifter to cam surface? TRASH! Then you need to make sure your cam lobes have proper taper, you use correct assembly lube and you add zinc additive to your oil or at least use oil with high zinc content. Good thing I'm finding out about all of this before I rebuild my engine.
@frosel3658
@frosel3658 2 жыл бұрын
I’ve always used Lucas sae 30 break in oil and proper engine lube and have never had a problem. I’ve built over 12 engines for myself in the last 2 years and have yet to have this happen to me. However my friend didn’t use any additives and this exact problem occurred. Use your additives or get break in oil, also cover the lifters with lube and you won’t have any issues.
@wayland7150
@wayland7150 2 жыл бұрын
Captain Obvious, Car Wizard would have done that.
@kevinhicks5088
@kevinhicks5088 2 жыл бұрын
@@wayland7150 if so why is he having so many problems? As alot folks here in the comments and myself were not having problems. Stock or 10 sec engines name brand or rockauto crap cams were not having problems. Sounds like a break in problem. That's exactly what will happen if not done correctly. From a fellow captain
@CanadianRoadandTrack
@CanadianRoadandTrack 2 жыл бұрын
This is an on-going issue in the classic car world where camshafts and lifters prematurely wear. If you are using NOS parts as a replacement then you need to consider that modern oils lack zinc in their formulation. The ZDDP in the oil acted as a sacrificial layer between the cam and lifters. Old school components will require old school lubrication. Good luck on this one Wizard.
@FWDSUXARSE
@FWDSUXARSE Жыл бұрын
True, they do have additives that can help though.
@jondoes7836
@jondoes7836 2 жыл бұрын
I recently finished a 455 Pontiac engine build for my GTO. The cam & lifters I used were NOS Wolverine Blue Racer pieces made in 1992. For oil, I’m using zinc enriched Brad Penn oil. Ran engine at 2000 rpm for 30 minutes for break in verifying that the pushrods were turning. No issues. Everything worked out. Engine runs strong.
@davidhouse3683
@davidhouse3683 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, Penngrade(Brad Penn oil. I run it in my MGB
@Tommy_Mac
@Tommy_Mac 2 жыл бұрын
Uncle Tony's Garage looked into this. Evidently, they stopped making new flat tappet hydraulic lifter castings back in the '90s when roller lifters became common. "New" lifter bodies are actually cores that are being recycled. When installed they often fail to rotate in their bores or defective components/clearances cause the internal plunger to leak down. Good lifters will have a "crown" on the cam facing surface(can be checked with a straight edge) and will remain pumped up once filled with oil and bled. if they fail to rotate or bleed down after initial startup, they are defective.
@johndillinger8482
@johndillinger8482 2 жыл бұрын
uncle tony is a moron.somebody told him that,he didnt know it.
@CarWizard
@CarWizard 2 жыл бұрын
@The Streelight Express Check out this on youtube and google. Common issue. I call BS on you being a professional level tech with thousands of customers.
@Tommy_Mac
@Tommy_Mac 2 жыл бұрын
@The Streelight Express correct, the metallurgy isn't the issue. The lifters failing to rotate, either because the lifter face is not crowned properly or the diminished OD of the side of the lifter jams it in the lifter bore, which causes the damage at the lifter/camshaft interface. Perhaps you are the lucky guy that this didn't happen to...? Buy a lottery ticket and enjoy your life.
@nickk1658
@nickk1658 2 жыл бұрын
@The Streelight Express Here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/r8mSa7yqmJ6op4k.html You might learn something.
@wburger2178
@wburger2178 2 жыл бұрын
@The Streelight Express so you say Chinesium does not exist?
@TheRetarp
@TheRetarp 2 жыл бұрын
Wiped a lobe twice eh? Might want to double check the proper break in procedure is being used. For what it's worth be careful with the NOS GM parts. A lot of those old 305 parts were junk from the factory. Many a wiped out cam lobe or broken camshaft on 305s from the 70's/80's.
@wingracer1614
@wingracer1614 2 жыл бұрын
My Dad's 81 Silverado with a 305 wiped a lobe. Of course it already had 150k miles of hard use towing a kart trailer all over the country and was on it's 2nd transmission by them. New cam and lifters and she was good for many more years
@atx-cvpi_99
@atx-cvpi_99 2 жыл бұрын
They happened on late 70’s and early 80’s cars because GM was struggling back then as well as Chrysler and Ford. The late 70’s and early 80’s were a dark period of the American automotive industry.
@georgekerr8804
@georgekerr8804 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I was surprised to hear you say GM was making good parts in the 80s. That isn't what I remember, Detroit only made crap in the 70s and early 80s. When the Airport Controllers got fired, the unions cleaned up a little bit. I'm no union fan, after being in unions in the 70s and 80s.
@wingracer1614
@wingracer1614 2 жыл бұрын
@@atx-cvpi_99 Yeah they made a lot of crap but not so crap that lifters got wiped out on first start up. They would last at least long enough for your warranty to expire.
@TheRetarp
@TheRetarp 2 жыл бұрын
@@wingracer1614 Friend of mine had a mid-80's GMC half ton. It nuked a cam lobe or two out of nowhere but I think it had about 100k miles or so and was 15 year old truck at the time.
@saxmusicmail
@saxmusicmail 2 жыл бұрын
Non-roller lifters are not supposed to be flat. They have a "crown", that is, the surface that touches the cam lobe is very slightly convex. The cam lobe is not ground perfectly parallel to the cam, but with a very slight angle. This causes the lifter to touch the cam lobe about somewhere between the center and outer circumference. As the lobe goes round and round, the off-center contact with the end of the lifter causes the lifter to rotate and spreads wear evenly across the end of the lifter.
@andrekardol
@andrekardol 2 жыл бұрын
Same thing with wheel bearings. I got an Mot failure on wheelbearings, installed new bearings and these made more noise then the old ones 🙈. So I installed back the old ones (from the 70s), with new grease, job done.
@brianeno1062
@brianeno1062 2 жыл бұрын
It's scary that it's not just the soft parts, like sensors and such, can be from a "bad batch", but real hard parts also.
@Rose.Of.Hizaki
@Rose.Of.Hizaki 2 жыл бұрын
Thats the problem these days. Manufacturers cheap out by outsourcing manufacturing to companies that have poor QC or they deliberately cheap out on materials so that whatever it is they make, doesnt last that long
@pmscalisi
@pmscalisi 2 жыл бұрын
And guess where most all of this stuff comes from?
@lasskinn474
@lasskinn474 2 жыл бұрын
@@Rose.Of.Hizaki the manufacturer should be doing the qc. you can get whatever spec parts you want from china, but you have to do your own qc and not pay for the bad parts. it's easiest if you have your own guys in china or just do your own manufacturing in germany, usa or whatever or do your own manufacturing in china. it's not like it's not 2022 and you couldn't get anything in any steel grade you want from anywhere. you can, but if you skimp down on the specs when ordering the stuff and skip qc you make more money for a while by selling them at prices as if they were quality controlled. now there might be even some not so obvious reasons for summit or whoever not arranging and going there to show them how to make them proper.. because they don't trust the chinese, if they showed them what they're for and how is the proper way and test and hardening maybe 'Chummit' brand would have actually good parts and take over. plenty of honda clone etc parts are just fine from china but you know what they put that stuff on their own bikes and run them.
@valengreymoon5623
@valengreymoon5623 2 жыл бұрын
This is the problem when once-decent companies out-source their manufacturing to save a couple bucks. People get crap components, and said companies lose their reputations. "Made in USA" is pretty much an almost dead concept. Time to fix that.
@Schlipperschlopper
@Schlipperschlopper 2 жыл бұрын
USA = Made in China today. Made in Germany = Made in China too.
@dunebasher1971
@dunebasher1971 2 жыл бұрын
The underlying problem you've got is that when customers have a choice, the majority will always buy the cheaper product, regardless of whether it is lower quality. And you can't make things in the USA (or indeed *any* First World country) without making them more expensive. How do you square that circle? How do you sell the population on the unpopular truth that if they want to buy USA-made goods, they will have to get used to paying more for them?
@valengreymoon5623
@valengreymoon5623 2 жыл бұрын
Sad but true.
@valengreymoon5623
@valengreymoon5623 2 жыл бұрын
You get what you pay for, and in the end, it will cost a lot more. Buying 3 of the cheaper product over a period of time, instead of one of good quality one time, is just a bad choice. That's the biggest problem with this "throw-away society" we live in now.
@anubaral
@anubaral 2 жыл бұрын
@@dunebasher1971 and what happens when you buy a so call expensive items just to find out that is the same cheap rubbish but expensive because they have engraved a company on them? Happened on so many items over the time that it just makes you wonder. I ain't a mechanic, not a certified one but i do a lot of car repairs myself. I bought a very expensive belt timing kit wich was supposed to be "the best on the market" , that was untill i opened the package and insdie was parts from a cheaper kit, they didn't even bother to engrave the new parts. I returned the kit and bought the cheaper one...
@intrinsicfactor5425
@intrinsicfactor5425 2 жыл бұрын
The first car I learned to drive on was a brand new 75 Nova (Mom's car). Wish I still had it. I do still have my Dad's 1976 Pontiac Grand Lemans that he purchased brand new at the Auto Show in 76. Love your channel......have learned so much.
@trentdawg2832
@trentdawg2832 2 жыл бұрын
My sister had a yellow’75 nova 2dr with black vinyl bench seats 350/th350 four barrel….that car was cool until reverse turned to neutral and she let it go for $250…..it was literally a cream puff…..wish I had it today
@muziklvr7776
@muziklvr7776 2 жыл бұрын
Don't forget to pour in a bottle of zinc additive and immediately rev the engine between 2000-2500 RPMS for 20 minutes the moment it fires. Be sure the carb is in proper working condition, fuel bowl is prefilled with gas, and distributor timing advanced at least 5-10 degrees past factory settings. The engine needs to immeadilty start, too much cranking can wipe the cam lobes very quickly.
@quicksilver462
@quicksilver462 2 жыл бұрын
Yes sir! I always test ran my engines on a test stand if possible, and even if not, after installing in the car, I always pre-filled the float bowl, set inital timing at 10 BTDC on #1 cylinder, with two full pumps of the throttle and making sure the choke is closed, my engines always fired with less than one second of engaging the starter, and never had cam/lifter wear problems. My last engine I rebuilt was a 3800 series II in my Pontiac GTP, and even at 195k miles, the cam and lifters showed "zero" wear, so I cleaned them and happily reused them!!!! I love roller cam/lifters!!!
@rposton919
@rposton919 2 жыл бұрын
Back in the day we took a drill and turned the oil pump with the distributor out. Lol..been so long I don't remember just how...
@daevid21
@daevid21 2 жыл бұрын
@@quicksilver462 hey a rebuilt 3800 I’ll take that for my cavalier lol
@timewa851
@timewa851 2 жыл бұрын
GM had EOS, 'engine oil supplement'. To protect during break in. Probably cannot get that either. Little 4 oz bottle was the dosage as I recall.
@mayorwrenchmcgnome
@mayorwrenchmcgnome 2 жыл бұрын
@@timewa851 shell Rotella t4 diesel oil is what I use. It has tons of Zinc in it.
@oldcarschmidt4501
@oldcarschmidt4501 2 жыл бұрын
It's the lifters. I've been dealing with this for years. There are only 2 companies in the world that make flat tappets, one in Mexico, one in China and they're both bad. I now only build engines with roller lifters and have had no cam problems. I did build a Mopar 225 slant six for a fellow last winter. There were no roller cams available and the original cam and lifters were bad from running modern oil. I wanted to use new old stock cam and lifters but the fellow wanted a hotter cam. I told him no way unless we used N.O.S. lifters, and then he was taking all responsibility. He agreed. I was sweating it during break in and made him dump the oil twice. I cut open both filters and there was only minimal swarf in the first one, as I expected. Since then he's put a fair amount of miles on it without failure. The fellow in the comments who said to re-use the original flat tappet cam and lifters, when possible, is spot on. Also the zinc additives don't work very well. Either use new "old" oil from before 1988 or use "Joe Gibbs Driven break in oil" only - no other brands or additives. I was sad to see that happen to you, Wizard. Wish I had said something before.
@ivycycles
@ivycycles 2 жыл бұрын
Broke when bought seems to be the way of things as of late. When I did the LS Swap on my 240SX the swap kit came with power steering rack fittings that were too short and would not seal properly. It caused me to have a catastrophic leak "oil everywhere" killing my P/S Pump. Even the A/C swap hoses had lousy AN flares that would leak. I had to use at my own expense special AN A/C flare seals and Nylog Blue to remedy that. I've heard about this soft cam and lifter issue for years. It's really annoying that people in the automobile parts trade are just there to collect your money with no pride or thought to quality - or doing the right thing when they know there is a problem. Sorry you are dealing with this as well.
@novaseline4u
@novaseline4u 2 жыл бұрын
The 429 in my 64 Caddy was rebuilt late 2020. The machinist recommended having the original cam reground, as opposed to a new one. He said the original core was much better than new cores, so that is what I had done. It came back looking like a brand new cam. We put Melling lifters in it, if I recall correctly. It has break in oil in it and I did the elevated RPM run for 30 min total although I did have to shut down one for a different reason, then resumed break in run. The car is still off the road, but it has maybe two hours of run time on it. Runs fine so far. Dumped oil and filter once, and refilled with break in oil and WIX filter again. Didn't see any funny stuff. So far so good. Car will be driving again very soon.
@plnbuf1
@plnbuf1 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for keeping us up to date on the Nova. My first car was a 1979 Nova Rally 305 , 4-spd. Never seen such "caved-in" lifters with new parts! Times are a changing......
@forreststrong797
@forreststrong797 2 жыл бұрын
This is a very common problem, I've had multiple new lifter failures over the years. I've been fairly lucky lately but there's been a lot of times I buy multiple brands and inspect then soak and prime in zinc break in oil and run a good zinc oil. Zinc is an absolute must for flat tappet lifters. I use a high zinc break in oil then after 500 miles I recommend a quality conventional non synthetic oil with a zinc additive or a conventional racing oil with zinc for 2000 or so miles then you can switch to whatever synthetic you like. I personally use royal purple HPS which is a nice high zinc synthetic oil it's different than the store bought royal purple. Edit: I thought I'd add that I've been told there are only a few lifter manufacturers for all the brands and it's been recommended to me by multiple engine builders to look into Johnson lifters. It is extremely difficult to find high quality parts nowadays. I don't work on a lot of normal cars anymore I mostly do offroad oriented builds and work on 4 wheel drives it's what I like and people keep coming back. I spend a ridiculous amount of time looking into ways to keep these vehicles ultra reliable for long distance travel, I can't go to oriellys for parts I have to find NOS OEM or specialty companies. I don't even buy brake pads from the parts stores anymore, I was just talking to someone a few days ago about how long it's been since I've purchased parts through local parts stores because they are so horrible. Last time i shopped locally I got 6 reman jeep cherokee rear wiper motors in a row from Napa and oriellys that didn't work before going to the wrecking yard for a used one. I have tons of stories like this.
@juliogonzo2718
@juliogonzo2718 2 жыл бұрын
Are aftermarket roller rockers and hvla susceptible to these problems? I put some mellings rockers and hvlas in an ohc engine about 2 years ago. Only have about 10k on the engine but no signs of trouble so far. Might be worth it to pull the lids and see how they are doing I guess
@forreststrong797
@forreststrong797 2 жыл бұрын
@@juliogonzo2718 usually if it's gonna fail it fails right away. If you put mileage on it and everything is good I'd leave it and just do good maintenance and run a quality oil.
@juliogonzo2718
@juliogonzo2718 2 жыл бұрын
@@forreststrong797 last oil change I thought I spun a bearing or something lol turns out coincidentally my flex plate cracked to the point it started making noise the same day
@forreststrong797
@forreststrong797 2 жыл бұрын
@@juliogonzo2718 haha I've dealt with that before quite a few times, either loose flex plate bolts or cracked flex plates. Sounds almost exactly like bottom end knock. I bought a jeep with a supposed bad engine and it turned out the flex plate bolts all fell out and broke some stuff and it was causing an awful racket.
@pauledwards6446
@pauledwards6446 2 жыл бұрын
Must not be the wiper motor that is the problem if fitting 6 did not fix it
@oneeyedjack4727
@oneeyedjack4727 2 жыл бұрын
I've also watched Paul from Fabrats channel experience the same issue. He rebuilt a chevy 454 for his son's truck and the cam and lifters wiped out the engine. It had glitter all through the engine. Bad parts were always a rare occurrence years ago, but seems like now the good part is the exception.
@needadate
@needadate 2 жыл бұрын
They also did NOT do a proper run-in on the first cam.
@fredmahar5431
@fredmahar5431 2 жыл бұрын
Poor junior mint !......my 22 yrs old Cherokee has not had any major issues ( yet....lol ) my mechanic, who is also a good friend, said the best thing I've done for the jeep was change the oil on a regular basis....love you and Mrs. Wizard.....great team !!!!
@lanceripplinger8352
@lanceripplinger8352 2 жыл бұрын
Always learning something new and informative from the Car Wizard!!! 😀😀
@moonshinefuel
@moonshinefuel 2 жыл бұрын
Seems like it was more of a problem with the lifters, not the cam. Lifters malfunctioning destroying the cam.
@jamesmedina2062
@jamesmedina2062 2 жыл бұрын
most likely you are correct but good engine machining is a time-consuming operation for patient people. The cam bore has to be checked and lifter bores as well. Its not a rush job. Then your parts need checking especially nowadays. Seems to me the machinist is not finishing the job and breaking in the engine perfectly the way my engine builder insisted on doing.
@VDPEFi
@VDPEFi 2 жыл бұрын
Have to be sooo careful with Chinese parts, I actually managed to find some assembled in UK parts for a land rover but it's just luck and searching, that's what happens when you de skill a nation, USA, UK, the same. Everyone wants some ridiculous degree and a job doing nothing, very few people would work in a foundry or an old school production line anymore, been taught it's not the way to go, sad.
@daevid21
@daevid21 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah that’s what I wanna do with my life work 12 hour days on a fucking assembly line 😂
@timewa851
@timewa851 2 жыл бұрын
'de-skill a nation' - I like that. That's exactly what has happened, in more than one nation.
@peterj5751
@peterj5751 2 жыл бұрын
You can add Australia onto that list.
@11sfr
@11sfr 2 жыл бұрын
I'm a sales manager at a company that owns a chain of quarries and mining operations, the majority (more than half) of our employees are still Vietnam veterans, its a pretty scary situation, since all of them are getting pretty old and could decide to retire at literally any time. They're good paying jobs with solid benefits, but its hard work, and we've had struggles getting people my age or younger to even apply for them. The guys make enough money to pay for their kids' college educations, but the kids prefer to come out of school making 1/3 to 1/2 as much working an easier entry level office-type job
@jamesplotkin4674
@jamesplotkin4674 2 жыл бұрын
I've rebuilt Chevy engines with flat tappets and used Valvoline 20w-50 oil that has zinc, primed and running immediately for 1/2hr. Not had a cam failure.
@paulmac9634
@paulmac9634 2 жыл бұрын
Wizard, I'm a hobbyist and build SBCs for my cars. I have had terrible luck in the last few years with flat tappet cams going flat. Both Edelbrock and Comp Cams flat tappet cams are terrible. In fact it is so bad that Summit will with no questions asked simply send a new cam when you report a flat cam. So with that, for the last SBC I built I used a roller cam and retrofit lifters. The cost is around $1000+ dollars, this compared to ~$250, but I think the added cost is worth it. I just fired my first roller SBC engine over the weekend and all is good...so far :)
@kramnull8962
@kramnull8962 2 жыл бұрын
What brand cam and how loud are the linked roller lifters?
@paulmac9634
@paulmac9634 2 жыл бұрын
@@kramnull8962 On the roller set up I used Comp Cams cam and it is a cast cam core, not the billet. For lifters I used Howards Cams brand since that was all that was available. My machinist suggested I stay away from Comp retrofit roller lifters because they have quality issues!! Ugh!! In any event the lifters are pretty quiet
@theshadowman1398
@theshadowman1398 2 жыл бұрын
Chickens of a throw away society are coming home to roost
@johna.4334
@johna.4334 2 жыл бұрын
Yep. Dem commie Chinee parts are comin' home to roost.
@edwrench4796
@edwrench4796 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, Americans recognize price over value all day long, then cry when their China junk breaks.
@samholdsworth420
@samholdsworth420 2 жыл бұрын
Chinese chickens lol
@MyWillypilly
@MyWillypilly 2 жыл бұрын
Elites don't work on cars, they just ride in them. Wizard..lead the charge! This has become all too common! Brake rotors are common to come warped ( I hear)
@andrewbutton5580
@andrewbutton5580 2 жыл бұрын
I had a 400 Olds with the big lifter bore, and I had the cam and lifters reground to avoid this issue. There is lots of oil science behind break-in, but it's not effective with junk "new" parts. Olds worked perfectly.
@johnstuchlik5828
@johnstuchlik5828 2 жыл бұрын
Who did your 400 cam & lifters?
@andrewbutton5580
@andrewbutton5580 2 жыл бұрын
@@johnstuchlik5828 Scheider Cam's out of San Diego.
@johnstuchlik5828
@johnstuchlik5828 2 жыл бұрын
@@andrewbutton5580 thanks for the info.
@matthewharlowehrscyclespor668
@matthewharlowehrscyclespor668 2 жыл бұрын
We have the same issue in the motorcycle restoration industry. Substandard parts are common. Like you, we keep a list of quality vendors along side a list of vendors to stay away from. Sad. Thanks for another great video. My best to you and Mrs Wizard. Have a Deluxe week.
@Dakiraun
@Dakiraun 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, this is a really sad, increasingly common problem. Tony, from "Uncle Tony's Garage" talked about this around a year ago when _he_ ran into it with a Chrysler engine rebuild - exactly the same looking wear on the lifters. Same solution too - NOS.
@pablopicaro7649
@pablopicaro7649 2 жыл бұрын
NOS parts could become like vintage wine, some clever shit re-fills the container with cheapest stuff around.
@67FORDTRUCKF250
@67FORDTRUCKF250 2 жыл бұрын
If it comes from China you know it will be garbage...went to a few SEMA shows and the Chinese took most of the floor space to sell their crap. Once again, Trump was right about them!
@davidt3464
@davidt3464 2 жыл бұрын
Over 10 years ago Comp Cams published a really well written document on this whole issue. Several suppliers sell "Break in oil", thats already got sufficient ZDDp in it, and its LOW detergent standard oil for the base. No real billet manufacturing has occurred in the US for years, we machine the billets but most billets come from China/Far East. TO really do it right they recommend no more than 500 miles on the break in oil, dump it and do it again.. Diesel oil no longer has the high ZDDp either, it was phased out slowly and now they are dependent on the new wonder mixes like gas cars..
@KS-xf2jf
@KS-xf2jf 2 жыл бұрын
Ran into a similar issue recently: Had a common issue with 6th & 5th gen Civics, and tried getting a sensibly priced aftermarket part, only to have 2 new aftermarket ones not even power up. (Searches for a OEM part) An OEM Fenso IACV old-new stock parts for a 6th gen Honda Civic is $200+.... for a froggin' civic! I hear you completely Mr. Wizard. Keep up the good work!
@MrFouryaks
@MrFouryaks 2 жыл бұрын
I was a Engine Tech for Mercedes for many years and have built 100's of motors. I would pull the motor, tear it down and have it cleaned. There is metal in the oil galleys. (Crane Cam and matched lifters) I had a 454 LS3 I built wipe a cam in 7 minutes. This was a hand built motor with roller rockers. It turn out that the OIL is the issue. There is metal in the oil galleys. I highly recommend you run Royal Purple Racing oil with ZINC. I would also add ZINC additive to the oil for break in. Once you get through break in regular oil would be ok with a ZINC additive.
@reaganwhitly862
@reaganwhitly862 2 жыл бұрын
Great video, as always! A trick I use with certain parts, is to weight the parts, to compare them! And can u do a hardness test, to see IF the parts are any good? Love your channel! Hello, from Newfoundland : )
@gumbootcloggers8330
@gumbootcloggers8330 Жыл бұрын
You have horseless carriages in Newfoundland now?
@jeffie8696
@jeffie8696 2 жыл бұрын
Not really a "new" problem , I have replaced quite a few flat tappet lifters since the 80s and thus why I despise flat tappet cams . Trying to force a flat surface up a ramp is always sketchy
@Mortalomena
@Mortalomena Жыл бұрын
Its the american flat tappets that fail, for example Mercedes flat tappets had no issues. It must be the added stresses/masses of those pushrod systems that wipe out american engines.
@jamesmisener3006
@jamesmisener3006 2 жыл бұрын
She will love her car when it's done. I always have my engines built by the engine shop. Puts all the details in their hands and I, almost, never have an issue. Just a smooth running stock or near stock mill. Cheers 🇨🇦
@willemvandernest3249
@willemvandernest3249 2 жыл бұрын
It's a common problem. We have 2 engines both a 350 that had the same issue. We eventually ended up sending the new cam in for repair and hardening and we bought 2 sets of lifters for a 4y Toyota engine. It immediately solved the issue. We here in South Africa do not have the convenience of going to a local parts store to get new spare parts because 90% of our cars is 6 and 4 cylinders
@TanCalHan
@TanCalHan 2 жыл бұрын
The roller lifters out there are in good shape, new flat tappet lifters are junk
@bowtiebulldog
@bowtiebulldog 2 жыл бұрын
I know, the ones in my truck have only been in there 350,000miles...
@moonshinefuel
@moonshinefuel 2 жыл бұрын
The 79" Nova is certainly a labor of love that got even more expensive than already intended.
@arlenburgin2392
@arlenburgin2392 2 жыл бұрын
POS money pit
@alexcallas8222
@alexcallas8222 2 жыл бұрын
The oem plaid seat fabric probably cost more than the car's value- I know the customer didn't care, though.
@davidbires2351
@davidbires2351 2 жыл бұрын
Been a mechanic 40 years.. we had very good experience these parts aftermarket..there is a lot motors right from the factory where cam and lifters have failed.. one motor the hemi with 30 thousand miles
@MrRodepp
@MrRodepp Жыл бұрын
O, Crap! I had a rebuild shop, do a stock build on my AMC 360. Bored 30 over, & such. I bought a cam & lifters, from Summit. Got it back & installed it in my Jeep. Somewhere around 600 miles, a lifter went out, taking the cam lobe with it. It Looked like, the lifter, jammed in it's bore, & ran until it ate a hole through it! And like your video shows, it was wore off crooked. I honed out & polished All the lifter bores. Flushed all the oil passages, pulled the oil pan & cleaned it too. Just buttoned it all back up, with a New Melling cam, & lifters. But,,,, I noticed the lifters, are made in Mexico! Your Crushing my Hopes!
@MrRodepp
@MrRodepp Жыл бұрын
Just to inform some on here that refer to Zinc additive, I used Jegs Break-in-oil, for the initial cam/lifter break in. Drained, & replaced filter, poured in 10w30, along with a quart of Break-in-oil, I had left. Ran that for about 100 miles, & changed oil & filter again. 5 quarts 10w30, along with a pint of Zinc additive.
@truckerdaveandred6731
@truckerdaveandred6731 2 жыл бұрын
We had that problem in the diesel Community a while back when there was a massive recall of camshafts in paccar engines. They're short cutting the Heat Treating process. What I've come to discover, is that the majority of these camshafts are made by a single producer. I was on the loading dock of one of these places a while back loading John Deere camshafts and there were also Crane Cams, Comp Cams, and Edelbrock cams all sitting there. I don't think the consumers are really getting their money's worth anymore
@felicetanka
@felicetanka 2 жыл бұрын
Fewer and fewer masters.
@tastywaves6043
@tastywaves6043 2 жыл бұрын
You are exactly right. Cutting chips is one thing but heat treating is an art. Its poor quality control during the heat treating process that is causing this.
@james_chatman
@james_chatman 2 жыл бұрын
@@tastywaves6043 It's executives and investors being greedy assholes that is causing this. Follow The Money.
@juliogonzo2718
@juliogonzo2718 2 жыл бұрын
Detroit s60 had some improperly heat treated cranks in about mid 2000s. I worked for a company with a fleet of thousands of Detroit's so the units in a certain serial range all had the pans pulled and inspected by a Detroit dealer tech. He was at our shop for weeks. Don't think any of the units that ran out of our shop needed the crank replaced they all passed whatever the test the contractor was doing (likely a hardness test but I never paid attention)
@divadyrdnal
@divadyrdnal 2 жыл бұрын
Last two older engines I have assembled I retrofitted with roller lifter conversion kits just to avoid this break-in issue on the flat tappet cam. Crazy in this day of age we can’t buy a decent set of flat lifters!
@rafaelnf
@rafaelnf 2 жыл бұрын
Sad story... thank god the engine is still OK. Here in Brazil we're flooded with counterfeit parts. Fake SKF Bearings, Fake Iridium NGK spark plugs, fake timing belts and super low quality oil filters, idle motors and shock absorbers... here the good shocks (Kyb and Monroe) last about 60k km in city use and a little more in road use. I wish luck for us all... insane times we are living... Keep up the great work wizard!
@joshjablonicky171
@joshjablonicky171 2 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately it's been going on for a while I just hope two people who are having starter issues had brand new ones put in there paid something to do it and the starters failed within the first day one of them didn't even work at all went through three before we got one that worked properly. And I'm just a heck helping friends out I couldn't imagine the stress that puts on you having to run a shop it's so unfortunate as always another great video thank you truly enjoy your channel I've learned a lot from watching you.
@MikeJohnson-ld9rn
@MikeJohnson-ld9rn 2 жыл бұрын
Proper break in procedure like the commenters are saying is mandatory! If you are not doing this, you will get the same results as described almost every time. It takes some extra time, but well worth it. Nos parts will soon not be available, so follow the procedure in the comments. Plus, nos cams and lifters can fail too. The lower zinc level and lack of proper break in will eventually get them all unless you get lucky!
@scootypuffjr.
@scootypuffjr. 2 жыл бұрын
Looks like the cam didn't get broke in properly. Can't just start a flat tappet cam and let it idle. Slather the cam with cam lube, and run it at 2000rpm for 20 minutes immediately after starting. No variance from this is acceptable. Younger mechanics not used to flat tappets may not know this.
@chrisjames8540
@chrisjames8540 2 жыл бұрын
I would imagine as a mechanic, he would know this. Have you seen the vehicles that he works on?
@garyjones2335
@garyjones2335 2 жыл бұрын
@@chrisjames8540 its always someone elses fault with this place..
@scootypuffjr.
@scootypuffjr. 2 жыл бұрын
@@chrisjames8540 I have. Mostly newer stuff with roller lifters and cam followers. Do all of his guys know this? You'd be surprised the people I've run into that don't know this. Sometimes they get lucky and don't have an issue.
@TheAdatto
@TheAdatto 2 жыл бұрын
@@chrisjames8540 never seen this lifters. Funny thing is for example a 1.6 miata is exacly the same as an Maserati 3200gt. Only the Maserati has 2 4 cilinder banks and the camshaft of the Miata are thicker. It's funny and counter intuitive. Made alot of comparison pictures.
@moonshinefuel
@moonshinefuel 2 жыл бұрын
It is possibly the lifters are malfunctioning destroying the cam. That's why that guy wants 600 dollars for the lifter set, could be what it is.
@Derf1313
@Derf1313 2 жыл бұрын
Back 15-20 years ago, had a rash of cams losing 1or2 lobes. Brother in law worked for Universal (Crane) cams in the induction heat treat, never had an issue with his, lol!. Zinc, proper break in helped, but it was a poor metallurgy & Improper tempering that was causing the issue. B in law was a diesel mech/combat engineer & a machinist all his life, could tell by color if the cam was heated proper, but was becoming worse when car companies started rounding corners... Thanx for the updates, sure seems a crazy world for quality...
@Welcometofacsistube
@Welcometofacsistube 2 жыл бұрын
Uncle Tony addressed this issue too. There should be legal action taken. Ots almost like this has been planned. They want you in thier rolling computers, people.
@jhonditch4269
@jhonditch4269 2 жыл бұрын
you and I saw the same uncle tony video
@johnmoore8599
@johnmoore8599 2 жыл бұрын
Seems there's a counterfeit parts issue going on in the broader automotive industry. It's been a big problem in the aviation industry for a long time. Looks like the auto salvagers will be making good money until this problem is addressed.
@tcm81
@tcm81 2 жыл бұрын
It seems to be common in a few industries. Was talking to someone who worked for an electronics manufacturer. They were having random failures in a certain percentage of their modules. They looked at some of their components and 1 in 10 of this particular chip was empty and contained no circuitry at all! Somehow these things had got into the supply chain. It's getting very difficult to know who to trust.
@spooderdoggy
@spooderdoggy 2 жыл бұрын
Look, there is a counterfeit issue in auto parts because America gave most manufacturing to China. The Chinese could care less about who they rip off. Watch serpentza here on KZfaq and you’ll get an eye and earful about Chinese counterfeits. He’s a white South African who lived there for 12 plus years and understands the culture and issues there very well.🤔🇺🇸
@houseofno
@houseofno 2 жыл бұрын
A big part of the problem is a Chinese law that requires foreign companies seeking to do business in China must partner with a Chinese based business partner. Think about that. You think arranged marriages are bad? How about a Chinese law that practically mandates IP theft, industrial espionage and piracy of trade secrets to benefit China?
@spooderdoggy
@spooderdoggy 2 жыл бұрын
@@houseofno It’s all by design by the Chinese Communist Party. When did this nation ever come to the conclusion there are ‘good communists’? No such animal exists. Now besides lousy auto parts we got a powerful adversary who is starting to own us. Like him or not Trump tried to get us out of China and show the world what China is. Biden won’t. They own him.🤔🇺🇸
@kattcasel9730
@kattcasel9730 2 жыл бұрын
Interesting you mention aviation also in trouble with parts. Ask any business jet owner with Honeywell TFE731 engines what happened when Honeywell moved the turbine blade manufacturing to MEXICO!! It was ugly and grounded the whole fleet for a couple weeks. What happened to the America that nearly collapsed the US Auto Industry over poor quality??????
@stephensmith3018
@stephensmith3018 2 жыл бұрын
I had a 1980 Camaro with a 350 and it’s cam went flat. It was covered by a recall way back then. Put in a Duntov cam, new lifters, zinc additive and it screamed!!
@ChrisMiller-qc7yy
@ChrisMiller-qc7yy 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent video and thanks for the heads up.
@phuqurfeeling
@phuqurfeeling 2 жыл бұрын
are you using proper break in oil? Oil needs to be high in zinc.
@robertsgbodyracing648
@robertsgbodyracing648 2 жыл бұрын
Also the zinc and phosphorus has been taken out of oil.
@johnclemont7801
@johnclemont7801 2 жыл бұрын
How frustrating! Thank you so much for providing this information.
@jessieharbinjr.6589
@jessieharbinjr.6589 2 жыл бұрын
I just dealt with this on my 2001 Lincoln Town Car. After rebuilding the ENTIRE ac system. Evaporator, condenser, lines, receiver/dryer, switches, compressor etc. The ac compressor failed 4 times! 3 of them were Four Seasons brand, and 1 was a Motorcraft. I even paid another technician to install the 4th one. Each time the lines were flushed, new condenser and receiver/dryer replaced. They either came apart inside, or started leaking externally. Finally after a while the 5th compressor held up. I found out a LOT of people are having this issue. So much so, they’re going to junkyards to get good used compressors!
@mattfarahsmillionmilelexus
@mattfarahsmillionmilelexus 2 жыл бұрын
For this exact reason, my local performance engine rebuilder positively WILL NOT rebuild an engine without converting to a roller cam system, no exceptions.
@larryw5429
@larryw5429 2 жыл бұрын
If you want extra insurance on cam and lifters you must use retro fit roller cam and roller lifters!
@floridaroadracerguy
@floridaroadracerguy 2 жыл бұрын
I've decided to go this route. The extra expense is just insurance at this point. Costs way more to have a flat tappet cam fail.
@hurricane8597
@hurricane8597 2 жыл бұрын
Wow, I had to replace head gaskets for my 1976 Eldorado convertible as the car sat for 25 years and did not want to take a chance on the originals. While in there, I was tempted to replace the cam and lifter set. The car only had 48K original and close inspection of the original set decided to leave them alone. Thank God I did. As a hidden bonus when I went to have the heads redone it was discovered that they were not milled correctly from the factory. The surfaces had high and low spots on them. It is the opinion of the machine shop in Kansas that I probably would have blown a head gasket very soon. The car now runs perfectly.
@SkrillaJBH
@SkrillaJBH 2 жыл бұрын
You are a lucky man that your tech is still working for you Wizard. Good techs are worth their weight in gold these days.
@carbo2950
@carbo2950 2 жыл бұрын
I have never seen a set of wiper blades rust in less than a year!
@muziklvr7776
@muziklvr7776 2 жыл бұрын
May be possible in areas that salt the roads.
@Zidlef
@Zidlef 2 жыл бұрын
Your honesty on issues is so amazing, sadly many mechanics are not that honest sadly. I have worked in garage doors for 35 years in Québec, Canada, my dad who past away in 1993 had thought me all i needed to know about the industry, the tolls required, parts etc. And he said buy rollers, hinges and springs made out of the USA and nothing else. I've work on doors and operators with him that were made in the 1940's till the 1970's, original rollers, hinges, springs etc, and he said those were made to last 100+ years. I had a neighbour which lived down my street that had such a door, it was 100 years old and still running, good old wooden door, 1/4 inch thick hinges, 1/4 inch cables all original as well. The family there sold that house when he died 3 years ago and they decided they wanted a new garage door etc. Sadly they called a company that couldn't care less about them, but all about profit and how much they could bleed them dry :-( Well in the last 3 years those people have come to my house to go and fix their issues, but sadly i am unable to work due to a previous work accident sadly. But they had bought the cheapest garage door and hardware available, everything is Chinese parts etc, and warranty is useless since that company who installed it is gone in the wind. Honesty, integrity, sincerity and doing a professional job is a thing of the past sadly for customers in all fields. When i did residential, commercial, industrial garage doors i would have used 13 gauge or 11 gauge hinges, long cycles springs. I have customers that still calls me for springs i put up 30+ years ago and they just now have broken, because when i did work i always put long cycles springs that would last at least 50 000 to 100 000+ cycles. So that meant they could open and close their garage doors up to 50 000 to 100 000 times before they had a chance of failure. Just like cars and parts were also made back in the day LOL Not the paper foil cars and trucks of the last 10 years. :-)
@gryfandjane
@gryfandjane 2 жыл бұрын
I’ve had a garage door spring break, and later a cable… in both cases, the springs hit one of my cars. Not amusing. :-(
@Zidlef
@Zidlef 2 жыл бұрын
@@gryfandjane well it seems ou must have had extension springs, and those i have always been running safety cables through them since i began with my dad in the 1980's. Cost very little and saves you a lot of headaches as well. I was hit by a brand new extension spring i was replacing, a 340 pounds 27 inch long springs, just installed and it broke in half. I checked it and saw where it broke and it was faulty. I had heard so many horror stories from my dad of back in his days. People getting injured, maimed and even killed, so why not use safety cables through them ?? Just no excuse or reasons to me. If one of your car got hit, that is sad, but think if your wife or children would have been there?? A car can be fixed or replaced, family members can't :-(
@danielfranco9193
@danielfranco9193 2 жыл бұрын
Always spray the cam and lifters with a good graphite spray lubricant before install. Lubricates better then just assembly lube included with the cam. Got the tip from a Hemings article
@steveo7819
@steveo7819 2 жыл бұрын
I'm having the EXACT same problem! I'm currently on engine number 3. I bought a 1994 Chevy K1500 short bed as a project. The 350 engine and TH400 transmission that was in the truck were out of an 85 Chevy 1500. The engine was very poorly maintained so I decided to have a new 350 engine with a flat tappet cam built for me the way I wanted it. I went to a local builder instead of buying a crate motor because if I had any issues he was in town. Well, I had issues. The builder did an amazing job with the motor and I was really impressed. Got the engine in and fired it up only to find the driver side cylinder head had a crack and was leaking coolant. No ones fault just a fluke. The builder sent over a new replacement head. Driving home from the mechanics shop I got about 7 miles and the engine lost all power and died. The cam flattened out and put metal through the entire engine destroying everything. The builder made me a new engine. During the brake in on engine 2 the cam flattened out again and again put metal through the entire thing destroying it. The builder is putting together a new engine (number 3) for me and I'm just waiting to put it in the truck. It is a flat tappet cam so I'm preying to the car gods that this doesn't happen again. But I know there is a very good chance it can happen again. Beware guys don't end up like me.
@nzuncovered1845
@nzuncovered1845 2 жыл бұрын
What kind of cam did you put in it ? What brand? Why don't you try a Lunati VooDoo cam or Compcams. I have only heard good things about them.
@EffequalsMA
@EffequalsMA 2 жыл бұрын
Chevy used to wipe out cam lives back in the day, too. Big problem even then. Breaking in the cam properly and the use of high zinc oil is pretty essential on these engines.
@ronaldspins
@ronaldspins 2 жыл бұрын
They have very high zinc oil for break in's only. But who knows with made in China parts
@1966gtoguy
@1966gtoguy 2 жыл бұрын
I thought and said the same thing but there are far to many of these issues now with every type of engine. It seem that the only current solution is going with a roller cam.
@EffequalsMA
@EffequalsMA 2 жыл бұрын
@@1966gtoguy For sure....still rocking the factory roller lifters in my 1986 5.0 coupe. I think the engine's been bored at least twice before I got it but, the factory lifters are still in there.....meaning they've got 277K on them as that's how much the chassis that held the engine originally had on the odo.
@xmarkracing9242
@xmarkracing9242 2 жыл бұрын
It is often the oil. If possible, use a lighter valve spring and a zinc additive for break in. With a performance cam you add the extra valve springs after break in and continue to use zinc add. Zinc was removed from new oil and not using it will even ruin your old NOS stuff.
@sweetroscoeful
@sweetroscoeful 2 жыл бұрын
This is why when I built my mopar small block I just went to a a HYD roller cam.... But while low quality is an issue, do continue to make sure to ensure you have the correct amount of ZDDP (zinc) in the oil.....with stockish valve springs and stock cam/lifters zinc isn't as important, but it still a consideration.
@jimcear1766
@jimcear1766 2 жыл бұрын
Yep. Aircraft engine , mine . Continental 550 . Cam and lifters wiped out after 600 hours. Overhaul shop said it was a chronic problem with newer engines . Encouraged me to let their outsourced shop overhaul the cam . No further issues
@hotpuppy1
@hotpuppy1 2 жыл бұрын
N.O.S. factory cam and lifters $600? NUTS! In the day (30 years ago) a factory cam was $49 and lifters about $30/set. Times change and prices go up. That being said, there is NO reason to be putting flat tappet cams/lifters in engines today. Manufacturers haven't used them in over 30 years. Oils have changes and don't have the zinc in them. I started 40 years ago and stuff isn't the same now. No-name means no-go in my book these days. Skip regular parts stores. No Chinesium engine parts wanted. Cam break-in is critical. Proper break-in lube has to be on the lobes, zinc additives in the oil and when the engine is first started it has to go to 2000 RPM immediately and stay there for about 20 minutes or you end up with round lobes and destroyed lifters. The carb has to be right on the money before starting as you can't be fiddling with it during break-in. With the cost of flat tappet cams and their notorious failure rate, roller lifters are the way to go. Yes they cost double to triple, but who wants a wrecked engine and have to worry about oil? You are spending the $ for a rebuild, don't cheap out on the lifters to save a few $. COMP Cams still has flat tappet cams listed, but why use them unless there isn't an alternative?
@thekikendallsautoandrandom1271
@thekikendallsautoandrandom1271 2 жыл бұрын
Alot of our older motors dont have the capability of running roller lifters without paying through the eyeballs. The inline six engine from amc/jeep are a prime example of this.
@robwhittaker5557
@robwhittaker5557 2 жыл бұрын
Any builds I do these days have retrofit roller cams and roller lifters. No reason to chance it just as you said. Its almost criminal to sell new flat tappet lifters.
@safffff1000
@safffff1000 2 жыл бұрын
Never needed to do this years ago.
@hotpuppy1
@hotpuppy1 2 жыл бұрын
For commenters that say, "What about my odd make? Can't afford roller!" Common Chevy, Ford and MOPAR, parts are cheaper and there is no reason to not use roller cams in those. The car in question here was a run of the mill small block Chevy and the other one was a 401 AMC. The AMC has roller cams available (at a cost). Other engines the cost is a lot higher, if available at all, so you use what you can find. You just have to be careful and skip the no-name stuff. What did the odd make use? Looks like flat tappet so it will be hard to find. Check the enthusiast websites and builders that specialize in the make you want. If you want performance, off-road, heavy towing, you have to be willing to pay the price if you want it to live. Basic rebuilds for cars that don't get driven much are different and MAYBE you can get by, BUT you have be follow the break-in procedures. Just looked up in Summit online cat and they have roller cam set for Chevy starting for less than $400. For oddballs, check the blueprint specs and see what might work from other engines and makers. Custom pushrods can be had and lifter bores can be bushed. Custom cams can be ground if blanks are available or your old one can be reground. I have an odd one that I am screwed on parts: OHC Pontiac 6. It was hard to keep alive when new.
@hotpuppy1
@hotpuppy1 2 жыл бұрын
​@@thekikendallsautoandrandom1271 Depends on what you are doing. If it's a performance application, spend the money. If it is an oddball and there is nothing to fit or make fit and it sits in the garage most of the time and just comes out on cruise night, baby it and use the additives and hope.
@larrycrum8463
@larrycrum8463 2 жыл бұрын
Some years they started to remove zink from oil due to high mileage engines beginning to use some oil. Apparently the burning oil would damage the catalytic converters . I am an old time flat tappet cam user. If I was going to use a flat tappet cam and lifters in an engine It was necessary to use a zink additive to avoid the problem you are having. Several oil manufactures make oil with zink, must use with flat tappet engines along with proper cam break in.
@johngaither3830
@johngaither3830 2 жыл бұрын
Shell used to have a grade of fuel high in zinc additive, but the cat converters put an end to that.
@larrycrum8463
@larrycrum8463 2 жыл бұрын
Valvoline racing makes an oil with zink and there are additives for your oil with zink and Amsoil also makes an oil with the zink additives.
@TheDingopaul
@TheDingopaul 2 жыл бұрын
Great to see your an honest person Wizard 👍
@milesgraham9645
@milesgraham9645 2 жыл бұрын
Now I'm not a mechanic, just a car guy who learned to fix his own stuff the hard and expensive way. Also an amateur Drag Racer. I don't believe you're dealing with a parts issue. It is modern engine oil, and assembly, and break in procedure that is at issue. This is IMHO, the best break in procedure for flat tappet cams, and has never failed me. GROOVE THE LIFTER BORES! Comp cams makes the tool. pn 5003. (SBC) The tool's a little pricey, but cheaper than new cam and lifters, bearings and oil pump, gaskets, etc, plus the labor to re and re and clean. Ask me how I know. Add ZDDP additive to any modern engine oil you prefer. (not just for break in, but forever) Or run a dedicated high ZDDP performance oil made for f/t cam engines. If performance valve springs are used, remove the inner springs for break in, or use 1.3:1 ratio break in rockers. This is exactly how I did mine with modern off the shelf parts. Comp Cams .560 lift (1.6:1 rockers) with 0 lash hydraulic lifters, bee hive springs. ( 383 vic jr @ 7500 rpm ROCKS!!) . 70s-80s gm sbc OEM cam and lifters were notorious for lobe failure. OER could be different, but i don't think these parts are your solution. Love the content. Cheers from British Columbia.
@jammin-w-joseph.musicvideo9494
@jammin-w-joseph.musicvideo9494 2 жыл бұрын
THIS car really interests me. The Nova. The Lambos, Ferrari's, Bentleys, Porsches, And such Hoovie brings in and others you work on are cool. BUT I been spying that Nova in the back ground just drooling..
@jammin-w-joseph.musicvideo9494
@jammin-w-joseph.musicvideo9494 2 жыл бұрын
@@pissoff234 1 Word "Sleeper. I had one with a 375 Hp 396 in it. With a 4 Speed Muncie top loader. Backed by a Ford 9 Inch with 3:73 gears. It would EAT a lot of the Ferrari's on the show alive. That could too if built right. Nothing cooler than smoking somebody's Lambo's doors off in Granny's car. Lol
@pjcornell9691
@pjcornell9691 2 жыл бұрын
Would it not be possible to buy the cams and lobes from Summit Racing? Would that be better???
@kenpringle6568
@kenpringle6568 2 жыл бұрын
That is such a Kool Car Wizard logo in the intro. I cannot see how you can improve on it.👍🏽
@DarthMayers
@DarthMayers 2 жыл бұрын
I had a new set of Engine Pro hydraulic cam and lifters do the exact same on my Nova. Now I'm going to try out Isky cam and lifters heard good stuff about them.😎
@DapimpBDSD
@DapimpBDSD 2 жыл бұрын
Supply and demand, those old-new parts a very limited, so yeah, definitely gonna cost an arm and a leg soon.
@darkiee69
@darkiee69 2 жыл бұрын
Wizard, at this moment in time you'll have a better chance finding good parts at the junk yard. And $600 is still cheaper than getting a new engine.
@CoreMaster111
@CoreMaster111 2 жыл бұрын
600 this, 600 that, oh wow, I'm 10k into an engine rebuild.
@jmooch59
@jmooch59 2 жыл бұрын
This is why quality matters!!!!! Program managers and some managers in general do not understand why we cannot cut corners. It’s too late when the parts are in the field.
@howarddavidiii6171
@howarddavidiii6171 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for the heads up just building a new motor for a restomode Dart Swinger. I could've wasted a lot of time and money.
@alanmoncus2331
@alanmoncus2331 2 жыл бұрын
I remember when you could get get a fairly decent nova like that (or something similar) for like 3-4 hundred bucks, and drive it to work and back for a while, with no problems atoll, lmao. And I'm not even that old :D
@tonyb1968
@tonyb1968 2 жыл бұрын
Soon it will cost 3-4 hundred bucks to fill it up with gas =/
@jimc8613
@jimc8613 2 жыл бұрын
It's called "Chinese made parts". I had the same experience.
@johna.4334
@johna.4334 2 жыл бұрын
More specifically, it's called "commie Chinee parts".
@Schlipperschlopper
@Schlipperschlopper 2 жыл бұрын
How can China manufacture space stations?
@Blowinshiddup
@Blowinshiddup 2 жыл бұрын
I have a 283 motor I bought without hearing it running. Tore it down and had the crank turned, now I'm looking at putting it back together. My fatherinlaw showed me his box of NOS GM parts he's willing to let me have, and I think more than ever it's a good idea...anything internal needs to be up to par.
@tripfall224
@tripfall224 2 жыл бұрын
love your channel. Love your ethics. Love your content. Thank you wizard for LEADING BY EXAMPLE!!!! Seriously!!!
@joshuagibson2520
@joshuagibson2520 2 жыл бұрын
I've got a louder than normal (but perfectly fine) lifter in my Chrysler 3.8. It hasn't gotten any louder over the last 2 or so years, but I'm not in a hurry to replace it. Too many soft lifters and cams on the market. I don't want it to be worse than it already is if I install new parts. Until this passes I'm not doing anything about it unless it gets significantly louder.
@ostrich67
@ostrich67 2 жыл бұрын
Synthetic oil helps.
@philip4193
@philip4193 2 жыл бұрын
Same here! Have a lifter on my '08 Wrangler with the 3.8L (120K miles) that noticeably ticks momentarily on hot start-up and then will continue to slightly tick on & off when the motor is at operating temps. Like yourself, I've decided to watch & monitor it rather than replace it with some Chinese junk that will likely fail straight away, seeing that the other 11x lifters are all good. I also religiously change my oil & filter every 3K miles just to remove any "glitter" that may be floating around in the crankcase.
@joshuagibson2520
@joshuagibson2520 2 жыл бұрын
@@philip4193 Mine is an 08 pacifica with almost 160k miles on it. Always run synthetic and change on time as well. Also use a Mopar filter. I've read that it has a proper drain back valve that some other brands don't and it cured the ticking for some people. Didn't help mine though. Something is fishy because when I put a new coil, plugs, wires, I pulled my brake booster vacuum off the manifold because it was in my way. I started the car back up with it unhooked and no tick at all until good 30 seconds after I put it back on and it built up some good manifold vacuum. Kinda the same deal in the morning when I start up. No tick at all for the first 10 or 15 seconds and then it ticks my whole trip. I do have a check engine light and code for EVAP I haven't tracked down yet, but I wouldn't think that would cause the ticking. I've been wrong before though. Other than the tick it's great. Runs strong and well. I never run it above 4k rpm. I had a leaky valve cover on that bank and when I changed the gasket all was cleaner than I ever dreamed it would be inside. My rocker arms and shafts were all good from what I could tell. I've also read there are clips on those rocker arm shafts that can rotate out of place and block the little oil passages, but I ran the car with no valve cover and I was getting good oil everywhere so I don't think it's the rocker arms / shafts / clips. That seems to be quite common problem from the reading I've done.
@warrenwinslow4266
@warrenwinslow4266 2 жыл бұрын
Put a bottle if Marvel mystery oil in the oil and drive it strong possibility it will fix it. It won't hurt anything.
@warrenwinslow4266
@warrenwinslow4266 2 жыл бұрын
@@philip4193 add some Marvel mystery oil to crankcase
@nicolascrescimone
@nicolascrescimone 2 жыл бұрын
Hope you are using breaking oil with a lot of zinc
@kanob6440
@kanob6440 Жыл бұрын
I have a 75 Buick Apollo and my shop is putting in a new 350. It’s been over a year, I’m excited to drive it soon
@jsh6952
@jsh6952 2 жыл бұрын
Uncle Tony's Garage touched on this subject as well with the garbage camshafts and lifters and some parts retailers even reselling defective lifters returned by customers.
@1575murray
@1575murray 2 жыл бұрын
Ironically enough the early production 305 engines were known to be prone to early camshaft failure due to cost cutting by GM.
@TailFinGary
@TailFinGary 2 жыл бұрын
Truth! Happened to my Aunt's 79 Malibu with about 16k miles IIRC.
@zorak1704
@zorak1704 2 жыл бұрын
Not to mention the nylon timing gears
@1575murray
@1575murray 2 жыл бұрын
@@zorak1704 Other manufacturers also tried to make timing gears with nylon teeth to reduce noise but as far as I know none were reliable over a long period of time.
@77tbrd
@77tbrd 2 жыл бұрын
yeah...it hadnt changed much in 95 - my z28 lt1 died from cheap cam metal and roller lifters that were harder than the lobes.
@gertraba4484
@gertraba4484 2 жыл бұрын
My 71 350 wiped cam intake on 3 in mid 70s
@frankbonura5710
@frankbonura5710 2 жыл бұрын
I'm going to ask a basic question. Did the oil you used on those two engines have enough Zinc for flat tappet lifters? No Zinc in oil = Death to flat tappets
@ritchschut1997
@ritchschut1997 Жыл бұрын
He mentioned what oil he used in the jeep, and that brand and series should have plenty of zink.
@wallysworkin823
@wallysworkin823 2 жыл бұрын
12 years ago I did a comp-cam in a SBC and a week later it went flat (bad lifter) They covered it under warranty but every cam after I check the lifters. I put a pushrod in a drill press and submerge the lifters in oil and slowly pump them up. I’ve had good luck since, I guess I’ve been lucky with material quality.
@johndavidgillespie2619
@johndavidgillespie2619 2 жыл бұрын
I’ve installed two comp cam kits in the last year and didn’t have any problems . I used the zinc additive and rotella shell diesel oil. Can’t run heavy valve springs during break in also .
@ne2i
@ne2i 2 жыл бұрын
Looks like they didn't heat treat anything. Wonder if the performance names have the same problem.
@whammond511
@whammond511 2 жыл бұрын
I have to agree. I worked for 5 years at the last Buick Transmission factory in Flint, MI (GMPT FLINT NORTH) till they closed it down. One of the main jobs left there was Heat-Treating. And one of their largest customers was Timkin Roller Bearings. They ran that line continuously and supposedly Timkin sent their bearings there because they did the best job. That’s what the Mgmt. said to the Employees. This was 2005 - 2010.
@wayland7150
@wayland7150 2 жыл бұрын
@@whammond511 Thank god they closed it. One more step towards the nirvana of the electric car which will save the world from global warming.
@whammond511
@whammond511 2 жыл бұрын
@@wayland7150 What a hateful, spiteful thing to say to someone from a Community that has been devastated by the loss of over 100,000 jobs over the last 20 yrs. Would have been much better if they had found a way to produce drive components for Electric Powered vehicles. GM’s departure was done because of personality clashes between one GM Exec. & one UAW Official. If not for those 2 intractable individuals Flint would be in a vastly different position. I pray you are never in the position that 130,000 people in Flint found themselves in.
@rodbender6184
@rodbender6184 2 жыл бұрын
The stuff is case hardened meaning the heat treat is merely surface deep. Once the thin hard surface wears away its down to soft metal.
@TeamPaulie2520
@TeamPaulie2520 2 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty sure I have four sets of new GM sbc lifters sitting in my grandfathers old toolbox, I know for a fact there is a full set still sitting in a oil bath that we never used because we went a different route, sitting in a oil soak for..man...15 years..
@abechavez1876
@abechavez1876 2 жыл бұрын
How the hell much you asking for them, $600?
@TeamPaulie2520
@TeamPaulie2520 2 жыл бұрын
@@abechavez1876 I was giving them away but now....
@johnboylan4157
@johnboylan4157 2 жыл бұрын
Ran into similar issues 12 years ago when I was rebuilding a couple of Triumphs. Had the "brand new" oil pump fail while I was running in the cam on my TR3A. Put the 50 year old oil pump that I had removed from the engine back in and it runs perfect. Rebuilt the drum brakes on my "66 Spitfire. Took it out for a test drive and the brake adjusters pulled out of the mounting plates. Replaced them, happened again. Sourced a pair of used adjusters from a gentleman who has several acres of old British Sports cars, problem solved. Not going to say where they came from but now I only by parts made in the USA, Britain, or the EU, or I rebuild the old part.
@Justin_Cider
@Justin_Cider 2 жыл бұрын
So glad I finished my build in 2018. Now my dad is building his engine and is having a problem getting a cam. Ordered one from lunati and they said 6 months. Got his money back and ordered a custom cam from bullet cams. They said about 3 months. We will see how long it takes.
@bngr_bngr
@bngr_bngr 2 жыл бұрын
The Car Wizard complaining about other people charging market price for parts.
@garyjones2335
@garyjones2335 2 жыл бұрын
agree
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