Do you play FORGED or CAST irons?

Having been around golf for some time, probably around 50 years, I get this discussion and agree with Harry, the difference between cast and forged are blurring the lines. Originally, here in Australia my grandfather use to work using a hands on blacksmithing process to make clubs for a company called PGF Australia. He gave me one when I was about 15 years old, my first golf club really, I am now 61 years old. So some time ago. Brings us to the present and I feel that the cast last longer, the forged wear quicker especially if you do lots of practice (I don't, probably should though). I really look for forgiveness now and just go for feel on a trial day for different club manufacturers, i.e. Mizuno, Titleist or Taylormade. Love your discussions and My golf spy, been a long time follower. Great work people.

Got my first set of forged irons the other day(Callaway Apex 16), after using cast all my life, never having hit a forged iron before.Huge difference, I could feel the difference immediately..

Having worked in a steel foundry , I can tell you that a benefit of a real hammer forging is less chance of air pockets in the structure. That means a consistent density in the club head which a potentially more porous casting might not offer And actually softened butter is patted into a mold. The liquid is buttermilk which is removed after churning

Love the podcasts. I watch everyone. Thank you and keep em coming.

as a blacksmith I can tell you the grain structure of the forged metal is completely different to a cast item and forged metal is much stronger than that of cast. having hit both... forged is definitely softer feel in my opinion.

this is an amazing podcast, learned a lot from you guys!

Watching this Podcast 2 years after the fact and enjoyed it very much. Just purchased Tour Edge C 721 irons for $399 as a replacement for Calaway Razr XF Super Game Improvement Irons. This is only the second set of cast irons I have purchased in 50 years. Looking forward to the comparison.

For me the difference between a really good cast iron (eg Ping i210s) and a really good forged iron (Mizuno 919 Tours or MP20-MMC) is definitely noticeable. I prefer the feel of good forged club but I play i210s which are cast because they were the best performing irons for me. Performance is more important than feel for me

Needed new irons, so went to our local Edwin Watts. Had my heart set on some other models, but as a 20 handicap the fitting specialist strongly recommended I go with he Mavrik Max. I saw an instant difference in control and distance. I’m usually cynical about the latest, greatest thing that is supposed to change one’s game around. But truly, my new irons have made a tremendous impact on my game and I’m enjoying playing weekly, to see what kind of improvement I’ve made over the previous weeks. Mavrik Max is the real deal. Calloway hit a home run with this line of clubs.

I've played Mizuno and I've played PXG, and there is absolutely no question that PXG is of another level.

My first practise iron (seven iron) was a cast cavity back I bought second hand. I'm using a past sentence because the head split in half right after the hosel where the face begins. Can you imagine the surprised feeling of seeing two flying objects right after impact. I did train in a backyard and there is a bit of clay in the field so it wear and tear the structure out finally. Afterwards I bought a set of Mizuno and swung those in the plastic net off from a green sort of woolen construction mat which felt just awesome partly because of the heet the impact friction produced. One time the ball "dryspun" so much it burned a mark in the plastic net and the ball was covered with green fibers from the mat :D. That felt unmatched and is quite impossible to replicate any other way. Nowadays I play Cleveland cg1tour and I believe those are cast form forged 8620. I have a set of Wilson forged tour as well. Impact sound is different. Cleves feels more packed and also distinctively muted but not as mufflingly muted as Wilson when hitting the ball on the screws. Off center strikes Wilson sounds meatier. The shaft and grip (and the build overall) plays a role in the feel and sound as well.

I think you (I) can tell the difference at the extreme quality ends of the spectrum, i.e. a high-quality forged club vs a low quality cast club. But these days (i.e. the past decade) the quality of main-stream cast clubs has improved significantly as have the materials used - no longer the rock-hard 17.4 SS of my first set of cast clubs. My current set is forged from 8 iron down and cast from 7 iron up. When I hit both really well I cannot discern any difference whatsoever. When I hit them both poorly I cannot discern any difference whatsoever. When I hit the 7 iron well and the 8 iron poorly I cannot discern any difference whatsoever. BUT when I hit the 8 iron well and the 7 iron poorly, I think I can tell the difference. Or, is that just because I hit one well and the other one not? 🤔 Damn. I thought I was being clever 😞

Honma TW-X forged irons here. Love them!!!

Always interesting guys !

I’ve always played Cast Ping irons , Ping i5s were my favorite, i had some Rac irons as a junior golfer that i loved but i do love my Forged Srixon Z785s they just make you feel like you can really feel the shot more and workability is better as far as , yeah i can work cast irons easy , maybe even easier frankly BUT i can’t control it as well where forged i feel like i have a precise tool in my hand. Both have their benefits , cast lasts forever 15 years later they look new still while forged you gotta replace cuz they get all scratched up

I recently made the move from cast to forged and I will never go back. I'm 58 and I don't know why I waited so long but it is night and day. The game improvement irons are great for casual players, but if you are serious about golf, get some forged muscle cavity combo irons and watch your game get better just because you have to try harder

Cast PXG 0211, and these feel really close to forged. My previous set were Adams forged, both are very close. Cast clubs are getting better year by year.

Yes i do feel a difference, my first set was a box set under $100. In 07, purchased my first new set jpx-919. Forged Nov 2019, and i do feel a difference at contact upon contact with the sweet spot ohhhhhhh feel so good,

Mizuno MP-4's. I've had cast, the feel when you pure one is completely different with a forged Mizzy. You can totally feel the difference between GI iron, Epic Pro's, AP2's and Mizuno. I agree that it has nothing to do with performance, it is more about -feel, looks and confidence when you are behind the ball.

Was fit last August for the Titleist T100 irons (forged). Best purchase I’ve made.

I have an old set of Ping Eye 2 irons (cast) and my current set of TaylorMade P760 (forged). The difference in feel is significant as the Pings feel dead compared to the P760's. It's worth noting that I have Active X Rifle 6.0 shafts with the P760s and the kick from those shafts has a lot to do with "feel".

I play PXG 0300 forged irons, love them, great feel.

I want to say this🔥🔥🔥🔥 I tested Ping i710 i500 i210 G410 i tested Sim and Sim max and all of them were harder to hit and inconsistent and had hot spots. Then i hit Ping Blueprints and T100s and Z785 and Apex Pros and they were all easier to hit more consistent on yardage

I have a set of Callaway Apex and Epic pro irons and the Apex do feel softer or duller maybe more muted sound like a carbon driver

Didn't one of the golf magazines do a "blind comparison" of forged & cast irons using tour pros years ago? The article I remember said that the pros couldn't consistently tell the difference. I prefer cast only because I don't like my irons to get dinged up in my bag. Before you ask, I'm a 2 handicap.

There is definitely a feel difference from cast to forge. However some manufacturers have added material to help cast clubs feel like forged. However it still doesn’t change the fact that a forged club is more consistent and won’t have a hot spot. And as far as feel goes. I have played Mizuno. They do feel amazing but the Wilson V6 Tour is by far the best feeling iron I have ever hit.

I still play the Ping Forged irons that are partial tungsten on the base of the club. Interested to know what they would be considered. I know they were very expensive to make back then and that is why Ping didnt continue their production.

additional point - forged metal irons, often carbon steel, can be bent to the proper loft and lie angles with less chance of breaking at the point of the bending. This allows club heads to be adjusted perfectly for the player. Cast heads, often stainless steel, are likely to break at the point of bending. My local golf shops don't want to tweak the lie angles of new irons for fear of cracking them at the hosel and having to toss out the head. So . . . . being tall and needing more upright irons, i quit arguing with the shop years ago and just got fitted for PING clubs. I did have a set of Mizuno MP32's years ago. Amazing feel, but i wasn't consistent enough with my swings/strikes that I suffered from inconsistent distance and went back to the PINGS.

I had cast Tommy Cast morph irons. I currently play "forged" Ben Hogan ptx irons. When I hit the Ben Hogan's in the sweet spot I can't feel the strike. I only feel the shaft kick. Never got that feeling from the cast irons I use to play. All about feel for me.

One benefit of forging is over casting is strength; where casting has the problem of porosity due to hydrogen and other impurities inherent to the ore or from being heated to molten liquid, a single, forged ingot does not have those impurities introduced because the molecular structure is bonded during forging. The labor associated with casting can actually more intensive than forging depending on what type of casting or what type of molds are being used; are we talking disposable wax or sand molds or reusable metal "break open" molds; it is true however that casting allows for more detail. When we want strength, especially with something that will be subject to repetitive shock (e.g. striking something over and over) forged is the way to go; of course if we were hitting something about as hard as the metal the "tool" is made of this is of considerable concern, where hitting a relatively y soft golf ball (soft comparatively speaking to any metal) we probably are not concerned with that shock absorption being so critical. While there are many tests that can be conducted to identify impurities in cast part so we may cast aside the defective items (pun intended), that testing adds time and cost to the manufacturing process. Another benefit to using forged parts is that forged pieces are better for welding for the same reason they are stronger than cast parts, flowed metal with no pockets air or other impurities melt together better making a stronger bond than do pieces with the impurities found in cast parts. As far as whether a piece can be made thinner from casting or from forging, I would have to talk to some of my engineers and machinists, but I believe we can forge a thinner part, possibly with the exception of using wax molds, because any reusable metal mold has to be "broken" open which can result in damage the cast item and I only have to point to the micro thin blade of knives and Japanese swords that are hand forged thinner than a human hair. I will definitely be asking some of my folks about the process for verification, but using that example, I have yet to see a cast blade that is finer than a hand forged one in strength or sharpness so how would casting of a golf club face or body be any different?

It's pretty easy to tell, even a forged clubs from a primarily cast company feels different from other manufacturers that have more experience in forging. I had the chance to hit some mizuno irons (2 clubs, outwardly the same); one had a copper layer under the chrome. It sounds ridiculous but... All of us could feel/hear the difference. I play Taylormade 2014 tour preferred MP but I've tried all kinds of other forged irons. For some reason I like the 2014 TP best. Some clubs advertising forged (P790) claim to be forged but forged face welded to a cast head (speed goo added) just don't feel the same.

I really like the feel of my PXG 0311 gen3 irons. To me, they feel great.

Great video guys , obviously for roughly the same size head a forged head will be heavier , because the process of hitting creates a tighter grain structure , or maybe a better description denser , casting the metal the grain structure is not as tight , a micro cross section would show microscopic air bubbles in the cast . There fore the cast heads will be a little lighter . The better the forging process and the better grade of steel will end up being a heavier head for a given shape , for example even among forged all are not the same due to material and process, my Nike blades are not as heavy as my miura blades, my Mizuno blades are not as heavy as my miura blades . And the Mizuno and Nike blades do not feel the same as the miuras when flushed , you almost don’t feel the miura on a good strike , therefore we consider them soft , Mizuno are renowned for a softer feel , they are probably the best known of all the forged clubs out of Asia although there are many brands of forged clubs that are not marketed to western markets. Tony is spot on hollow bodied clubs are not actually what is considered forged a part of the head is forged , generally a forged club is one piece of hammered billet into a club head .

You guys were saying that casting a club is cheaper than forging one. You also mentioned that the Vokey wedges are a cast club, so why are they as expensive or more expensive than a forged wedge. Here in Australia the vokey sells for about $250 each, about $20-$30 more than the callaway and about $100 more than the new wilson staff forged wedge. Are vokey ripping everybody off or is the something else going on. And also, what about clubs that have apparantly been double forged or multiple forging

Cast usually get grouped in with old cavity backs and in some cases would create flyer yardages and inaccuracies. Forged blades have tight distance tolerances and seem to be more accurate.

Does sound correlate with feel? Meaning clicky sound denotes less feel vs. muted sound denotes more feel

Hey Tony are we going to get the ball data this season???

I use a forged iron. What about forged face? Are they set in a cast club?

I think the type of metal has a bigger impact on the feel than the manufacturing process. I'm a ping guy and everyone knows Ping is mostly cast. There might be a bit of a placebo effect going on but I feel like I can tell the difference between the original Ping Glide wedges and the Stealth wedges. Both forged, but one is made of 431 stainless and one (Stealth) is made of 8620.

There are differences in water taste (maybe not "flavor" but they do all taste different. And having both cast and forged clubs, I always go back to the feel of forged!

going from cast Ping in the 90s - thru forged Titleist tour models in 00s, and now forged Mizuno 916s - very little feel difference. Pure is pure! My understanding was forged can be bent - lie, loft, etc. If you try to bend a cast club it will snap. More brittle... or is that rumor?

Forged. Hogan Icon and PTX Pro. when I'm hitting them, I do feel something uniquely different about them that gives me a little bit of a woody. It's possible that it's placebo, but I did switch to the Recoil shafts which I know reduces vibration, so that might have something to do with it. Anyway, regardless, when I use them, for whatever reason they make me happier. I'm tall, so, I know that bending forged is a simpler process and you have more bendable softer metal. a couple downsides are they do get dinged up easier, and they probably will wear more rapidly.

Ping i500 irons. Love them.

question, take the same design, at the same cost. how many people would pick cast over forged?

Is there any potential for billet cut iron's in the future?

Should I switch to graphite shafts?

according to tests Desani water is the worst. Supposedly the process they use takes all the minerals out of the water, I got this from a independent test they did with 10 different bottle water brands rating them and the table water turn out to be the best, but they said it depends on where you live with the table water

With solid forged irons you wont get little hot spots on the face. The sound/feel will be more muted and consistent, the distance dispersion will be more predictable on centered hits. Did I miss anything?

I think if you want a game improvement club and forged and forgiving then Callaway with DCB and Paradym X are your choices. Yes there are others but probably not as easy to launch.

Harry is so excited.

I'm confused so all the Irons that won distance 2020 are all forged but you say that there is no difference in performance between forged and cast?

what are the highest selling sets of irons in 2020?

I am with Harry - best siuted / performing but with good feel!!!🤔😉😀💪👍

Do they use the same metal in both processes.

I just switched from ping iblades to mizuno mp-20. When I first hit the iblades, I swore I couldn't tell the difference. Now that I'm hitting mp-20, I swear they're much softer. 🤷🏿‍♂️

In general, I like your videos. However, I think this one is a bit flawed, which doesn't mean that the outcome changes. Forging changes the crystal structure in metal. This changes the properties of the material. Other people already mentioned that by forging you get more gases out of the material. But on the other side with casting, you can make more complex shapes that can overcome the flaws in casted clubs. So to be able to say if forged irons are better than casted ones, you need an identical clubhead in a forged and cast version and compare these. Like said before, this doesn't mean either one is better, especially not with the technologies and technics we have nowadays.

On a forged iron the "sweet spot" is smaller. If your a good player, and you can hit this sweet spot on a consistent basis, the response "feedback" you will get from the "face"is consistent! Cast irons allow a different construction by which the Sweetspot is larger, allowing new players to come into the game and stay in it, even if the contact is not as accurate.

Actually butter is not "poured" or cast, butter is churned and technically it is "forged" as you take the solidified mass of cream and press it with a paddle until it is "washed" and then you can form (or forge) that solid mass into whatever shape you want it to be kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ed53ZcR0nLeaenU.html

My take: Forged are generally smaller and more dense. More mass behind the ball = butter. Cast are (generally) larger, thinner, and inch for inch less mass behind the ball and use tech like tungsten and rubber to make up for it feel wise. I play forged clubs and will likely never go back.

Feel would seem to be most important in your wedges. As stated Titleist Vokey wedges are cast. Most all wedges are cast of soft steel. The perception of feel is really sound. Put on headphones and block out sound the difference disappears. That has already been tested.

So... the commercials in the middle of the podcast... annoying. Hit the TM SIM irons the other day, felt like butter. One of the smoothest irons I've hit, and I grew up playing forged blades. And I was super accurate, which I liked.

About the copper - the best quality, longest-lasting, chrome plating is 3 layers: copper, nickel, and chrome.

cleveland irons used to be formed forged best of both ?

Correlation does not equal causation. That's maybe what you were looking for on the "forged irons are harder to hit" front...

The reason I would select a forged over cast iron is because most golf shops won’t bend cast irons.

I play Mizuno JPX919 Hot Metal irons (cast), and Callaway MD4 wedges (cast with milled face) and wouldn’t trade them for anything......

Doesn't it have anything to do with whomever is hitting the ball.?

Only ever owned forged clubs. Hogan Edge very soft Mizuno T-Zoid Pro - looked perfect at address, felt great out of the middle. Mizuno JPX921 - forgiving but chunky looking Forged are easier to have loft lie adjusted

My first set of pro level irons was Hogan PCs. However. With today's technology I doubt it helps a whole lot to have forged irons. I play Ping I20 s.

What about for fittings though? Couldn't forged irons be more fitted to a player than cast? I currently play with cast clubs, but I feel than the lie angle could be more suited for me over 2 degrees, and that most fitters won't bend more than 2 degrees for fear the metal could snap. So for that reason, I'd go with forged where you could go up to 4 degrees. Am I right or wrong thinking this? If so, please comment. Please be civil too if you comment. :) Thanks!

I was under the impression that since both types start out as molten metal the forging process changes the grain structure of the metal and makes the metal feel softer. I play forged irons.

What you "hear" also has a big effect on feel.

Look up pings vs mizuno price’s what’s the price difference

Let's heat the forging material to liquid and pour into a cast mold what would we have. I think that hitting that material several times makes it much denser and offers a different / more solid feel.

Played Callaway Apex Forged and Titleist T200 and no difference in feel. Both are great performers.

I could hit my MacGregor forged muscle back irons deeper into the woods than my cast cavity back irons! Where's that "buttery soft" feel when a forged iron is struck toward the toe?

Butter is actually forged if you want to take this analogy to its conclusion. It is essentially violently shaken milk that is then compressed together into a block to remove all the buttermilk.

I want to know what Harry has in his bag

From an engineering perspective, cast is less dense. Forged has an especially harder outer surface with specially forced lattice structure. Forged would feel softer because the MOI and energy transfer. Cast has a more uniform cast structure throughout because of the way the crystalline structure of the metal sets up as it cools, but energy transfer from the ball won’t be as efficient. Of course the differences are so minimal that you might not notice as much of a difference. Forged realistically will last longer because of the harder skin at the surface

9:00 Harry needs to get on a GEARs machine and do a proper fitting where you can change deflection and droop numbers on a shaft and literally quantify feel into a number. The less a shaft deflects and droops, the better the feel - 100% of the time. Given the same CHS + Centered hit, an increase in ball speed = an increase in smash = a decrease in spin loft = a decrease in deflection = a more stable shaft = an increase in feel #easywithGEARs

why would the average golfer (-25 handicap) spend over $500 on a set of clubs (no driver or woods)? Maltby has very very good iron sets, custom built, under $500... Wilson has very very good of the shelf clubs, at a reasonable price, only needing loft and lie adjustment... the only "feel" comes from an off sweet spot hit, when the sweet spot is hit there is no feeling...

Cast Ping i230 are solid and soft!

Actually there is a taste difference between Dasani and Aquafina. The bottlers of Dasani actually add sodium (salt) in the hope that it will make you even more thirsty and you'll buy more.

There is no doubt on a molecular level forged steel is superior to cast steel. Cast steel does offer many other benefits. 3D printed metal is currently even worse than cast steel at the minute but that could well change in the near future given how rapidly it is moving forward. Hard to see that hybrids will not be the best sellers in the future.

But Vokey wedges are a soft cast SS …kinda destroys some myths … Find out what the Rockwell C hardness is…that’s one differentiator….

I will tell you that a good shot with my cast 90s Top-flite Tours feels every bit as good as a good shot with any of my classic forged blades.

Feel will impact performance by way of confidence. Even if the numbers are the same on a robot, if you expect the iron to feel better, you should put a more confident swing on the ball. I would also think club head speed and spin loft would be factors. Maybe lower speeds and higher spin lofts make the feel differences less obvious. In other words, even professionals can't discern a feel difference in wedges, and a lower swing speed player cant discern the difference with any club. I find it hard to believe the companies would go through a more expensive and manufacturing process if there was zero benefit to any player.

(Apparently), you cant bend a cast iron. So if you want to gap your clubs or tweak lofts for whatever reason, you need forged. Not huge for the avg golfer, but gapping is a massive contributor to performance.

I feel like you kind of proved the argument when you mentioned vokey wedges being cast from the same steel as pings forgings. Vokey wedges are never soft, they are the hashest and clickiest feeling wedges out there.

fact of the matter... why make a hobby harder than it needs to be. Last time I checked, GHIN does not give lower scores for equiment. Use the clubs that help you get the ball in the hole in the least amount of strokes. Think of it like this, if your life was on the line and you had to get the ball in the hole, what clubs would you use?

there are video's of Clevelands form forged clubs and they were true forged clubs

Love this vid - However I disagree with the Mizuno being top of the chain - EPON ALL DAY!!! AF TOURS

I play WilsonStaff 93' FG51s 3i pw .. Score well lo65 alot 67s Forzen rope Pars Birdies afew Eagle Ace

I have worked for both Coke and Pepsi, and there is a taste difference. Dasani adds minerals into their water, for a specific flavor.

But fully cnc machined is best (seven irons) right? Right?! Lol

Iplay both

What about the old "the sweet spot on a forged iron is the size of a dime " then and only then will it be buttery soft. IF YOU ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO HIT IT CONSISTENTLY. And if you can of course you will wear out that sweet spot sooner.

Forged is to irons like Soft is to ball. Both words are used sligtly loosely and marketed, resulting in easy sell $$. All this is forgery, please call the golf Police 🚔 ...Here comes mygolfspy!! Keep up the good work guys.

still playing tour proven cast ping s55's - I play in the desert and my forged clubs dinged up within one season because of the softer metal. My pings have held up remarkable well, plus the extra forgiveness of the pings will have me buying from this company again when they come out with something I can't pass on.