safety report was sent to who?

To NASA ASRS Aviation safety reporting system

does the pilot get a fine for that? is it just a slap on the hand?

NASA ASRS is a way for pilots to report incidents confidentially through a separate agency which is NASA and can be use as a get out of jail card. If Daniel was referring to the report that the controller would make they are required to submit such report whenever a pilot deviation has occurred. It will be investigated by the FAA and the pilot could be subject to suspension of his/her pilot certificate and maybe required to do a check ride also known as the 709 ride with an actual FAA Inspector and not just with a designated pilot examiner.

Why do you spell Lima with 2 m's here?

Luis fernando Bruno Guzman you are one cool cucumber, man. Inspirational!

You did an incredible job handling this dangerous situation. Maintained calm and composure throughout. Well done.

Perfectly executed see and avoid. I've done a lot of see and avoid now since I started flying survey jobs around Seattle bravo. I didn't realize the magnitude of risk involved until I started flying survey lines around a busy practice area.

Well said. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Hello Captain, I know you have published a book about your carreer as a pilot but I could not find it anywere online to buy

Congratulations sir! I hope that one day if I find myself in a similar situation, I can be as calm and collected as you were. That was very impressive to listen to... truly!

Do you miss it?

Congrats!

Congratulations!🍾🎊🎈

@@eduardofonseca3978 yes, it was my life....

It's tough to be assertive in this situation, though, especially as a new pilot. I feel like ATC dropped the ball a little, too.

As a pilot that has flown in the LA airspace for over 10 years (primarily out of TOA) I have little remorse for the Cessna pilot. I do think it is a learning experience that he will remember and I am glad no one got hurt. Most training videos, the AIM and various other publications recommend flying with an instructor in an airspace complex as LA to become familiar with it. A quick look at a TAC chart would have also shown that any flight into HHR or near that area would need to remain SOUTH of the 105. It's depicted well on the chart and easy to read. I think this comes down more to pre flight planning. There is virtually little ATC could have done because HHR twr does not own that airspace and twr giving a vector is not allowed. Twr suggesting a turn could have caused things to be worse because as seen in the video he was literally right in the arrival path. The pilot already turned and wasn't much more ATC could have done.

Cthippo1 when he said he was making a left 360 back towards Hawthorne, it is clear he is snafu at that point.

@@SuperAhmed1337 yes, i agree Super Ahmed... he should not lose his license due to the fact there are multiple reasons. the Atc got loud with him making the situation worse. it's too bad as far as the results of this fiasco. i feel bad for him and his aviation family.

I agree and share the same point of you as you my friend.

Perhaps the ATC just wants to know a good place to send people to flight schools?

Eh man, nobody was hurt that's key

The only thing scarier than "I have a number for you to call"

ThoolooExpress bah, take that number, write it down on a sheet of paper, then crumple it up and throw it away like a parking ticket 🤣

@@mattball7074 "Eh man, nobody was hurt that's key" I see this bad logic all the time. The point is the risk, not whether someone actually got hurt. I mean, if your child ran across the street and nearly got hit by a truck, you wouldn't just shrug it off because "nobody was hurt" unless you were a horrible parent. No, you'd give that child a MAJOR talking to.

Yeah that's really all I could think when I was watching this, it seems insane that Hawthorne is so close to LAX that you can violate class B airspace pretty much immediately on approach.

Don't worry SMO will be gone soon

Not an excuse though. I was taught "know your area of operation before flying into it." Do that well enough and everything gets easier

yea I didn't realize! that's really congested

@@aj3751 He could have known Compton well enough, Hawthorne where he got diverted to, not necessarily.

Or just do what the London TMA does. Massive sections of airspace are Class A from a long way out and many of the CTRs (Class D in the UK) are treated as Class A except for Helicopters, preventing small fixed wings from getting too close.

Chris Kohanek :: Thank you Chris for saying what I said in the original to post series. People from outside the country thought that their Class B airspace was something to be compared against and I tried to explain to them what you just said as well. You've got 14 airports immediately around LAX not counting military. I tries to use flight follow and not put too much on the controllers or be *unreasonable* requests. Aviate, navigate, communicate. Everything I've ever flown had mode C but I'm sure not everyone has it. I think it's kind of suicidal in Southern California. But thems the laws as far as I remember them. I do miss being up there though. For the record for readers, Atlanta is the busiest airport in the world and LAX number four. Heathrow has dropped to number 7 and Charles de Gaulle rounds it out at number 10.

It's true, the socal charts make my head spin

Chris Hayward :: YUP!

TheTimeTraveler2025 painting airspace on the ground while not a bad idea is inconceivable. That would take so much money. It’s our responsibility as pilots to know where we are at all times. Their are enough tools available to do this. Avare Garmin Pilot and Foreflight to name a few. This guy maybe should not have been allowed to solo yet.

You forgot the MSFS pilots.

@@shreddder999 lmao

That would only work for super-sonic aircraft

Give them the Bobby dazzlers whilst you're at it for full effect. (Sorry for the UK only comment)

Airbus/boeing has a horn btw, usually use in ground to call the attention of the aircraft mechanic 😊

🤣👌🏻

Yeah. That's what we need to introduce into air traffic. A tool to convey their displeasure. I can just picture tthe 40 plaines in line for takeoff at JFK honking their horns impatiently. So nah, let's just keep the road rage where it belongs. On the road.

Em...no? If you almost killed an aircraft full of people you shouldn't be petted on the back. The seriousness of the situation should be addressed, so he will know to not do this next time.

@@myopinion2day The pilot knows how serious it was, and I guarantee you it's weighing on him terribly. He feels shame, fear, anxiety, and an adrenaline rush from his near-death experience. He's flying through crowded airspace over a metropolitan area. If he "shuts down", either by just giving up or freezing, then you have turned a near-accident into a certain-disaster as he crashes. The time for reviewing the situation is AFTER the situation has concluded, not in the middle of it.

@@gloomyblackfur399 You seem very sympathetic with that pilot. I'd quite contrary, approve of ground to air missile dealing with that situation. Getting a ton of metal into the air over a metropolitan area is a serious business and starting that while being not competent confident and capable enough to do that gracefully and without risk is a crime. An unintended act of terrorism, if you will.

@@NGC1433 Yeah I'm sure you never accidentally cut someone off, tough guy.

@Trace That was hardly an aggressive tone, more like assertive, and the ATC did not talk in a threatening manner. I think you're forgetting that realizing when you've made a big mistake can temporarily kill your self-confidence.

I am not a pilot but I think someone who is not familiar with that general area should just stay off in the Pacific for as long as possible.

"The Basin" airspace is loads easier with a little Friendly SoCal Approach Flight Following. Even though you are VFR, it removes your worry about busting everything but the Bravo (as long as you follow any instructions given). And, generally, they will not take you on any big detours. Very recommended.

num sayin?

ja ja

The FAA are gonna hafta come and get me off yo ass, that's how I'm goin out

Gold rims on that Cessna's gear. That A319 be payin respects and gettin outta his way.

How did we determine that it was a student?

@@shreddder999 Hawthorne tower asks if there was an instructor onboard. Owner is a flying club/flight school. Reasonable assumption.

@@AviationJeremy Do we know even now that it was a student?

Likely to be a new pilot renting from a flight club

@@AviationJeremy Students are required to identify themselves as "Student Pilot" when talking to ATC

You'll need a plane just to get out of LAX, at least any time this decade

Top dumbest comment I have read today. 🙄

@@jstbemee Thank you 😉

l bet you can’t sit down anymore?! Better get a pillow?

Not once have I ever thought "to save my life" and "LA" in the same context

Actually an incident at LAX was a pivotal moment in the development of TCAS. A major carrier decapitated literally a GA family going to the local mountain range on holiday. There were other innocent deaths on the ground when the carrier crashed as well. The verdict was that the GA was in an area which should be reserved for the LAX heavies only because they were not trained enough to scope out where they were other than using conventional freeway and landmark maps.

Hopefully you can get flight following in such busy airspace.

Was there a sort of a extrusion of the B floor area a few years back? I remember a few years back when I took off from HHR I was told to turn left immediately while climbing out of the airport to avoid entering B by TWR. Much greener back then....

​@@XPoChangLinX The western portion of the surface area for the LAX Bravo makes a hard turn, almost a 90-degree, to the south at the LAX VORTAC extending on the 170 Radial off the coast all the way to the 251 Radial off of SLI. Pretty sure LAX uses it as a Diverse Vector Area for Low-IFR traffic. It's about 5 miles from Hawthorne but considering even a minor course deviation of 10 degrees to 263 degrees from runway heading of 253 at KHHR will put you into the Bravo over the LAX VOR at 5 miles, there's not a lot of operating room on the north side of the KHHR departure path (5NM and 10 degrees is just under 1 NM at around 1 SM off course) so an uncorrected wind drift can just as quickly (if not faster) put you in the bravo close in to KHHR as flying out 5NM will. Given the close proximity, controllers at KHHR tend to have aircraft departing 25 turn left as soon as possible after departure as it provide breathing room, especially since the departure end of 25 KHHR is 2NM and 30 degrees from the approach end of the runways at LAX, let alone the departure end.

@@elcastorgrande while many other airspaces will turn you away, SoCal rarely does. There are not as many options for VFR pilots to get around in the SoCal area without traffic conflict as there are around other Bravo's throughout the US, especially since SoCal's prevailing weather is generally favorable to VFR so ATC's role in coordinating both VFR and IFR traffic is much more critical. That being said, their priority is still IFR separation and according to the AOPA, a surprisingly large percentage of mid-air collisions occur during Day VFR conditions while utilizing flight following or otherwise under the control of ATC. I myself just had 2 unusually close run-in's with other traffic while in the traffic pattern at a local towered airport; granted the airport in question was a Class D without radar services but it was unnerving to say the least to have ATC start going off on another plane and get an ADSB advisory as I was making my turn to final. On a lap around the pattern later that same day, I was #2 for the runway behind a jet on a long final when a Cessna who "had me in sight" was given #3. As I turned to base behind the jet, the Cessna also decided to turn to base and ended up inside of me on final. Thankfully I caught them as ATC had just cleared me to turn final and land and I was able to inform ATC of the traffic and have them resequence me. It was a bad day in the tower I guess.

About 25 years ago, a friend of mine asked if I wanted to fly down to LA with him from the Hesperia airport (up in the high desert above LA). Since this trip was to catch the electronics swapmeet that was held monthly at the TRW plant near the Hawthorne airport, and said swapmeet started at about 7am, we left Hesperia airport about 5am to give us plenty of time to get to the Hawthorne airport and then catch a cab to the swapmeet. We took off VFR as it was clear but still dark, this being in the wintertime. Once we got down into the LA basin we did flight-following with LA approach. Since it was so early in the morning, the traffic into LAX was pretty light. We were monitoring approach, and looking for the runway lights at HHR, and getting confused. About this time, approach calls us, and says "Hawthorne is on your left, about a mile.. You planning on landing at LAX?? Seems the runway lights we were seeing was LAX's not HHR's.. Somewhere along the line we missed the fact that HHR's runway lights were only turned on by double-clicking the mike on the then-closed tower frequency.. We certainly had egg on our faces, but nothing ever came of it...

Lucky you know HHR terms and procedures. And yes, you need to have your eyes out to recognize landmarks and freeways.

Tbh not great job by the controllers, specifically the Hawthorne controller getting all aggressive on a low hour pilot who just messed up due to being given complex and confusing directions inside some of the most complicated airspace in the country.

@@bobjohn2000 Right. ATC errors there. They are payed to help the pilots, not to confuse them.

it is not funny to make an innocent turn mistake and find yourself going against the inbound LAX traffic. I know that area is well known in the GA community but that does not mean that people should go there unaware how close the GA lanes are to the "real" inbound lanes.

It’s not that intimidating, there are numerous VFR corridors he could’ve used to transition

I train out of KVNY and whenever we are close to LA's bravo my instructor points out that if we cross that line we vaporize. I think that's a good way to look at it.

And JFK

I'd say it's one of many. Washington DC, NYC, LA.

@@2011blueman I think Detroit Metro is the same way even with Willow Run being west of Metro.

Or just don't screw with any bravo

it's probably a training airport

Sounds like he was kind of looking for someone to blame, which doesn't seem the best of times for it....

I don’t think it was so much someone to blame, more like the tower figured out the pilot was inexperienced, and were finding out if there was someone more experienced and better equipped to handle the situation on board. If there was a trainer on board, they wouldn’t allow a student polite to venture into that space in the first place, but in an emergency/dangerous situation someone who knows completely what they’re doing it better to talk to than a rookie.

A controller asked my friend if he has an instructor onboard just because he couldn’t understand the call sign 😂

Sharon Mo And I’ll that as another of the things that never happened

I remember that. my mom refused to fly after that. There were parts of people everywhere.

So you're saying it would've been very serious, but multiple safety measures prevented it from being too serious.

Huntracony No, it *WAS* very serious, it *WASN'T* deadly.

If I remember correctly, wasn't that a Piper stolen by a GI out of Washington state? If so all the rules and regs wouldn't have prevented anything. Think that's when class B airspace was created by Margaret Dole.

@@scottpatterson4105 No. The problem was that there was a separate incursion into the class B airspace, and the air traffic controller missed seeing the incident Piper.

1-800-Fly-Delta

Thank you very much, Nina, for your support! Sharing helps a lot :D

Because it's a niche market. It would be nice if everyone was as interested and educated and trying to rapidly absorb as much useful practical information as possible..... But nope. Ariana Grande has a new single out where she might show some side boob. Much more important.

Thank you so much for your support!

@@budguy21 are you a pilot?

@@alanaldpal950 yes, based in the LA area

@@budguy21 well I hope if you ever make a mistake that you will just shred your license right away and not wait for “them to take it away”

@@alanaldpal950 "make a mistake" lmao way to trivialize what he did. This jackass obviously made zero effort to learn the landmarks of the Bravo airspace. Its not that hard, stay south of the 105 freeway. But if Im ever stupid and dangerous enough to fly my aircraft into the approach of a Class Bravo airport, I'll shred my license for my own safety. I'll even mail it to you. Whats your address?

you might have just been going to Bear Lake. Don't want to cross those holiday goers.

How do you know that this was a student pilot? It sounded to me like he more accurately lacked experience and made a serious error.

It's almost akin to walking through a mine field blind

no kidding...i had my primary out of ktoa in the mid 80s..no gps,tcas or moving maps..fun times

@@mattf49006 hope you're good with landmarks lmao

+TheSpaceElefant ..this was in 1984...and yea i was..along with studying charts and a great instructor

In other words don't go around the Greater Los Angeles area without first consulting landmark maps and event alerts? That's real stupid.

Wrong controller, he doesn't control that airspace, so he can't do anything other than get the plane to talk the guy who does and can.

I agree 100%. I commented the same thing above. I think it was extremely unnecessary and look very unprofessional. That HHR tower controller should probably stick to government jobs or flipping burgers. That HHR tower controller was a unnecessarily a dick to N53440. He needs to lose his job and I hope he sees this comment. If he does, I have a phone number for you sir.

That’s SoCal on a good day. I’ve heard way worse the times I’ve flown through LAX. He’s lucky they didn’t chew him out for flying through Bravo

@Ryan Would you agree as a pilot that it's helpful to learn some surrounding landmarks before flying to a destination? I feel like that would've helped this GA guy a lot. Use something as a "Do Not Cross" line of sorts. The HHR controller used the 105 and that was a good idea. I can't blame him for being upset with this pilot. Of all things to be unaware of, Class B airspace is probably the worst. No one likes getting read the riot act or making it to KZfaq, but sometimes it's called for. There was another crash in this area that was caused by very similar conditions. A lot of people died that day. Glad it didn't happen again. Hope the pilot gets back on the horse and is better for it

@@yzyzyzyz5032 I disagree. It may have seemed harsh, but it goes with the severity of the mistake. I don't know anyone involved here, but from what I just heard, it didn't sound like this pilot knew the area all that well. Depending on where you fly, that's life or death. Firing a controller for being on top of a class B airspace violator is pretty backwards. These are the kind of people that, as a controller, you SHOULD be on top of.

most pilots are trained to handle complex and difficult regional congestion. Just think of driving on freeways with clear locations in mind where you need to contact the radio operator just to yell at them that you are ok and under control and everyone would know where you plan to get off even miles from where you are now. No problem? And by the way the operators know exactly where to tell you to change frequencies so you hit the best operator to where you are and what you are doing all the time. relax.

Trek001 wasn't she absolutely great! I've seen grown men cry more on their wedding day...😂

ann nonymous Maggie knew she had a chance to avoid the incident, the marrying bud was running towards it 😬

Right? It's literally 2 runway lengths to the southeast of LAX! They could probably just build a taxiway to it!

Its pretty normal really. Lots of commercial airports have city GA airports close or under their approach paths. The approach to YMEN is only 2-3 miles east and ever so slightly lower than the YMEL 34 approach. Literally there is a bridge with a vfr weypoint at one end and the jet final turn at the other

So in other words a basic law of GA is to study charts of local major airports and to be able to determine ahead of time where to turn and where to avoid? How terrible.

Yep, he didn't read back the instruction to proceed direct to the runway. Atc didn't call him on it, then, shocker, he absolutely didn't do it. That was on the controller. Don't issue 2 instructions and allow just one read back.

The Airbus got a warning that came with an advice, they followed that advice, and because of that the planes still stayed hundreds of feet apart. Granted, that's closer than one would like, but it was still a ways off from a disaster.

Yeah, it turned out ways off from a disaster but it very easily could have been one. Just imagine TCAS not working or the pilots not reacting immediately. The Cessna was actually descending at the same time so without TCAS they would probably have had a separation of only a hundred feet or so which would be waaaay to close for comfort.

Schuwi, Yeah, sure, a lot could have happened if a lot more went wrong. But that's the point I'm trying to make, a lot of things have to go wrong for something seriously dangerous to happen. Only one, maybe two things went wrong here.

Schuwi Every time a plane takes off it COULD be a major disaster if enough things go wrong. Luckily there’s enough redundancies built in that major disasters don’t happen very often.

A 340 is an audio panel..?

I like this idea. A little behind the scenes of how the magic happens. Good idea.

I think it would be cool but I kinda don't want him/her to do it. If they do it then I think there will be hundreds of bullshit ones popping up on KZfaq

Peter Bogomolov I disagree. Too much work for wannabes to even do half baked. They'd still need the tools, and Victor had the radar tool made just for him (us).

DON'T. keep them unique so always come to you!

It would be really fun to incorporate this into my videos. Maybe we can do a collab sometime...

Good idea but general aviation aircraft are not (at least yet) required to have ADS-B transmitters. I think they will be required starting in 2020 in the US

@@sbreheny i know. And that's what i cannot understand - why? Costs are not that high versus safety gain. And unfortunatelly in 2020 it will be only in US, in EU it's still mode-S

If the LAX airspace is as bad as commenters have said, then it should be unlawful to train there.

Sure. I train for my truck driving license in kids playground. Why not?

@@gloomyblackfur399 SP would need an endorsement from his instructor in order to solo in Class B. It's really good training for everything else, provided you've been instructed/trained correctly.

@@gloomyblackfur399 "The Basin" does have pieces of complicated airspace, but even 30 minutes in a Cessna can have you in un-restricted airspace. As long as you prepare for a flight, understand the airspace it will encounter, and have a plan for what to do if things so sideways you should be good.

His direction was also about 90 degrees off. He said 1 o'clock or 12 o'clock when the airport was off his left wing.

So, two things here. One, he got a TCAS alert warning him about traffic (google can explain that better than me). Two, yes pilots have a lot to concentrate on, but they (I'm not a pilot btw) are taught a "scan" and that includes looking outside the cockpit and never fixating on a single instrument.

Were you VFR? Flight through active MOAs is optional on the part of the pilot in the United States.

Lol 🤣

yes

No FAA. You are in big shit. The Costa Ricans nearly died.

Also idiotic by the controller. It was clear that the pilot was low hours and was in over his head. Saying that just stresses out the pilot and makes them pissed at themselves, instead of focusing on getting to the runway and landing.