VASAviation - probably because KSEA causes tons of ground stops and other massive congestion delays for KBFI due to the huge traffic volumes and geographic overlap between the two.

Clearly an ATC error if the Vistajet filed the flight plan correctly.

Random Acts of Video I think the entire point is that they deliberately filed it wrong to try and make an end run around the regulations. And that made life hell for the guy trying to manage the weird airspace at BFI.

UK PPL here. That pilot should have picked up his route clearance before departure. Sounds like he was trying to shortcut the system by departing VFR in an aircraft unsuited to the traffic conditions. My guess is he was being pressured into cutting corners by a spoilt rich kid in the back, but at the end of the day it’s the captain’s responsibility. He caused unnecessary chaos for others, and demonstrated unprofessional behaviour and poor airmanship. A disgrace to the usually high professional standards of UK and EU aircrew.

@@matthewhall5571 It's unclear if thats what happened. If it did then its a huge issue.

Tower appeared aware of the plan to take off VFR and remain in the traffic pattern. It is so weird for that kind of plane that they asked to confirm and the pilot verbally confirmed every aspect of that plan. The pilot did not say he planned to zip around in the pattern of highly congested airspace in a G650 or whatever at 1500 feet while trying to pick up his transoceanic clearance. If he had told that to tower, they would have flat out denied him. It was an insane plan on the part of the pilot.

@@edomalley1 Yeah that about sums it up haha.

@@edomalley1 He wouldn't be getting his oceanic clearance until Iceland, in the meantime he needed an IFR clearance.

LOL!

Yep, only at 17,500ft. Estimated additional flight time: hours and hours.

LMAO! I needed that

😄😄😄👍

Good thing, they will pick up G airspace over oceanic area without bugging for clearances.

Eh, if the passengers were pressuring the pilots to take off and shortcut the process in the first place, they deserve what they got. Besides, "max bank" in a business jet is _not_ a sporty or aerobatic maneuver. The folks in back might have been spilling their drinks but its not like they were getting tossed around. :-P

Rest assured, the pilot did not pull this stunt do to "pressure from the passengers"...more like pressure from the check writers

@@bgribbz VistaJet is the kind of company that will get you a transatlantic flight on a private jet with less than a days notice. The cheque writers are the passengers. These are the kind of people who think their time is too valuable and they find themselves too important to have to wait on such things as "picking up IFR clearance on the ground". From their own website "...146,000 flights, 367,000 passengers ..." or about 2.5 passengers on the average flight. I can't be bothered to look up how many passengers KLM, BA, Emirates or Quantas haul around the place, but I doubt that they'll average about 2.5 passengers per flight.

@Zaphod Whiskers I suppose the passengers don't write their own cheques, but rather their accountants do.

@Zaphod Whiskers Ummm earth, naturally. No the passengers DO NOT write the checks, they simply pay a company, and said company writes the pilots checks... you seem a little butthurt for some reason....are you a pilot that got fired by a check writing passenger or something?

Well he sent them there...

XD true!

Facts

Been there!

I fly with an Aerial survey company, as a LEO not a pilot. We fly around Washington DC every year taking updated photos for maps. One year we flew into restricted airspace (P-56) and got the dreaded, "Be prepared to copy FAA control number." Pilot I was flying with had Interviews coming up for a Commercial airline and was nervous as could be. We landed and called, luckily it was just a learning moment and he didn't get anything put on his record. The FAA people we spoke to were pretty decent about the whole thing. We were 8000 AGL and had been in constant communication with ATC so no flight back with fighter jets or anything.

Law enforcement officer.

Seems about right to me too, I don’t think anybody is really at fault here besides the individual that failed to relay IFR to tower.

Nailed it. I knew there was more to the story because as a pilot flying a 737, he had a lot of experience flying out of airports across the world. He isn't going to wake up one day and say "F*ck it. Let's make up our own rules today." Plus, there had to be a reason for the Tower to think he was trying to land right after take off. What a complete cluster.

Underrated comment lol

Rflmao

Exactly he said “I’ll call your base” twice. If he wasn’t planning to land why didn’t that tip him off the ATC misunderstood his intentions.

@@JH-in5oq because they were trying to pull a fast one and file an airborne flight plan and depart from a vfr flight but they had not reckoned on the amount of traffic inbound to more than one airport n their immediate vicinity nor had they reckoned on the controller not giving them an immediate IFR handover as the controller was trying to keep everyone alive as pop up traffic just kept arriving after pop up traffic ( well pop up with regards to the vista jet crew) and all the crew would have liked to do was blast off into the night talking to the IFR controller but the local ATC had given them a southerly escape route with a nice IFR handover but they still didn't realise that close proximity shit was happening all around them and the local ATC controller was trying to keep everyone alive until such times as they were clear to the south out of the way of the impending traffic. The comment here about can ATC handle traffic into both airports is "Yes" but not with impromptu traffic flying the circuit but not flying the circuit under vfr requiring IFR departures and not actually landing or going around.......?! Somebody somewhere didn't get an IFR slot departure when still on the ground (probably due to the mass of traffic inbound) so the crew thought let's go into the circuit vfr and then switch to IFR and fly away. Had there been no traffic inbound, at their height, and something like 2 am local then maybe that would have worked well. But it wasn't and it didn't. Messy and embarrassing. They might, might have tried a vfr flight to Greece at a low altitude, as in low like 1,000 ft and then headed off to Greece and then when out of the traffic zone (and the traffic) then pick it up with the IFR boys and get a clearance and a level. Personally I would have let them blast off to an oceanic area under vfr and let them file an airborne flight plan but I am not a controller and he was trying to keep them alive and separated from the traffic there were in. It's a lodda fun. The tiny mistake was to vouch to stay in the circuit, I suppose they could not go off into the night under VFR as there maybe no VFR at night!!

Because he is British 😉

Needs more hot air balloons doing mach 3.

@@1320fastback Oh, don't forget the Boeing 747 Air Force One landing on the carrier.

You win best comment for this one.

Can you imagine trying to pull this on the server when he's the tower? "Negative, Tower. We're at max bank."

😂😂💀

Yea very well explained btw! The only time you'd pick up clearence in the air In Australia is departing out of class G airports such as avalon, essedon, moorabin etc if tower is not currently online but it'd be something like this "Melbourne approach good afternoon VHTEA is an IFR cirrus sr22 taxies moorabin for bendigo 2 pob" "TEA Melb apch sqwack 3604 no reported ifr traffic report ready at the holding point" *some times passes* "TEA ready at RWY 18" "TEA make right crosswind departure climb 4000 report airborne" "TEA airborne passing 2000 for 4000" "TEA your cleared to bendigo via direct climb FL130"... It's really all coordination

@@jacobtheaviator9976 In the US, if you depart from an untowered airport (or outside of the operating hours of the tower), you would usually pick up your IFR clearance by phone (with a possible time limit or some kind of restriction). In theory, you can pick it up in the on the Approach/Center frequency too for a reason or another, but it's increasing everyone's workload, especially in busy airspaces like in this example

@@nathanvermeulen8392 oh wow I've never heard of that before, pretty cool, you can always depart OCTA as long as your vfr and out of an uncontrolled airfield down here and call airborne or even just remain OCTA aslong as your outside of the MVA and MSA and are monitoring approach if within 150nm of a major class C airport or centre if not,

In Class D airspace they absolutely can give you vectors but cannot use the radar for sequencing. Things must work a bit differently to the rest of the world in the US. To be fair I haven't flown VFR in probably a decade. I know from my charter days in Australia and South Africa you absolutely can file IFR airborne and I've heard VFR traffic receiving IFR clearance often as well. Odd that you can't in the US. I wouldn't expect to receive it from Tower or Departure but there would have to be a Centre frequency that he could.

I am not sure the Vistajet pilots had IFR clearence, because they refused their original IFR clearence, and never received an amended IFR clerence for runway 32L (as it was restricted for self-separating VFR traffic). Ground/Delivery is not authorized to negotiate changes in flight plans on behalf of the tower or departure ATC units, so expecting Ground to tell Tower what to do is a misunderstanding how ATC works. Ground/Delivery cannot re-plan or override the clearences/restrictions from departure/approach/area control by itself.

How is this ATC's fault? He squawked VFR and took off. He was trying to jump the line to get his IFR clearance by doing in mid-air. In busy airspace thats not always guaranteed. I've heard people doing this when I flew KLAX a lot and people would be denied their IFR its just too busy for clearance to be doing that.

The Vistajet had the stupid idea of taking off VFR, picking up his IFR clearance in route, and then flying IFR. Had he picked up his IFR clearance before taxiing, that never would have happened. But he’s super special, so he can do his own thing and forget everyone else!

Doesn’t misunderstandings in this industry cause deaths?

It's still ultimately the PICs responsibility to have what he needs before flight to include clearance

Because the tried to pull a fast one, getting airborne ahead of their slot and once airborne, demanding their IFR traffic slot which hadn’t been assigned yet.

@@skydive1424 it was explained better in another comment. Basically they filed for IFR but needed to take off in the opposite direction as filed due to their weight. They were cleared to take off VFR and transition to IFR but the tower never got this information. Goes to show how such a tiny bit of miscommunication can become so dangerous

@@skydive1424 wrong. ATC messed this up.

@@virginiaviola5097 lol no. Wtf is wrong with you

@@12b_engineer he's right, ground didn't tell the tower it was an IFR departure, they departed VFR off a non-active runway for performance reasons but tower assumed they were VFR. That's not the pilot's fault.

As a private pilot, I don't understand why doing this in a center environment would be a problem. I always pick up my ifr clearances in the air unless a vfr departure is unsafe, and I've heard that controllers actually prefer it that way as long as you are able to continue VFR as until they can work you into the flow. Obviously what this guy did is very different. I'd never try to cut a line by circling the airport "vfr" to force out a clearance. I'm talking about a normal VFR see-and-avoid departure, upgraded to IFR once safely away from the congested airport environment.

Hell yes...He should have got a hold with an EFC 5 hours in the future! HAHAHA

Its notable that the initial takeoff is for runway 32L, and after that all traffic seems to be routing in on southbound runways. BFI and SEATAC are so close together that BFI runway direction always follows SEATAC - regardless of winds at BFI. My hunch is that SEATAC was in the process of switching runway directions and VistaJet was told to turn around and taxi all the way to the other end of the airport (a 10,000' runway). That would likely have taken 10-15 minutes and might have resulted in a few planes slotting in ahead of them, so they requested a pattern flight in an attempt to get off the ground before the runway direction was flipped. Supporting evidence: Check out Cessna 804 (from about 1:30 to 2:45 in the video). He comes in like he's going to make right traffic for 32R, but gets flipped around to an abbreviated left pattern for 14L. I've had that happen to me when I was getting my PPL at BFI. :-)

exactly..brillant

As I understand it, VistaJet's normal business model charges for time flown, so those five hours would have been charged to what Kennedy Steve liked to call the 1% sitting behind the flight deck.

Correct, the channel owner probably couldnt tell difference of a Gulfstream which have oval windows and a Global. The bizjets are so hard to tell from looking at them.

C Cheng no they aren't. Any pilot can differentiate a Global from a Gulfstream.

We can play make believe when ever we want

@@ccheng6477 It's not hard to tell the difference between a global and a gulfstream at all

@@ccheng6477 lol not really

Arrogance. Tower wanted to teach a lesson to the VistaJet, because tower thought VistaJet shortcutted a departure with a VFR clearance. Turns out no lesson needed to be had since tower was wrong in that assumption. Conclusion: tower was an asshole that day.

What are you talking about? The pilot totally mislead the controller and asked for pattern work but only told him he wanted his cross oceanic clearance once he was about to bust airspace. Totally failed to let him know that he wouldn't be able to land at all let alone beat up the pattern. Literally tied the controllers hands. Sure this dude was cool as a cucumber but he totally boned the controller in the process.

@@mikey554 Yep. There is another aviation blog which posted this flight and explained what happened. A private jet trying to depart SEATAK for an overseas flight might have to wait for an hour or more to receive an IFR clearance. So the pilot pulled a fast one: Got VFR clearance instead, and by using the term "downwind leg" clearly suggested to the ATC that he was intending to land. Once in the air, he made his intentions more clear by requesting an inflight IFR, which is not normally done, according to the other aviation blog. When the ATC told him to land, he then discloses that he's overweight (due to the fuel needed to fly to Athens, presumably). So the ATC is stuck. Not really very professional.

I am a corporate pilot: what this pilot did is completely irresponsible. As the PIC it is your responsibility to call in your flight plan with enough time to get a clearance. I typically file it over breakfast or in a taxi; by the time I’m in the jet 1 hour later it’s ready. For lack of 2-5 minutes of work, this guy endangered hundreds of lives.

Copied an explanation from elsewhere: "The facts are available by listening to the feed from Ground. An IFR clearance to Athens was given and flight plan filed. Vistajet 868 asked to depart via the opposite runway due to the aircraft being too heavy for the active runway (obstacles on departure flight path). Ground agreed this could be done only as a VFR departure. When transferred to the Tower frequency the ground controlled did not pass on the details to them correctly. Consequently, the Tower thought they intended to reland. The aircraft was then asked to manoeuvre in an area too small for it due to it’s heavy weight and minimum speed."

lmao wtf ^

Just imagine the chat in the cockpit everytime mic was off ....

@@38911bytefree Good One

How come youre still in school then?

That guy sounded smooth glass. Id fly with him any day. If i flew, of course.

ATP? I think I flew it once or twice

Thanks!

You should see what New York has to deal with, they've got JFK, Newark, and Laguardia all in very close proximity.

@@KingdaToro BFI and SEA are literally a stone throw away and the runways are lined up almost parallel. So this is way more serious than the things going on in NYC where there are many airports but far from this close to each other.

They don’t lol

@@victorpena3129 They have to have some sort of LOA (letters of agreements) between the facilities on how traffic needs to flow...

Nice profile picture!

I'd bet they were empty, just crew.

getting an IFR release can take longer in busy airspace. getting your ifr clearance in the air is a way around that. but doing that for a trans-oceanic clearance? that's stretching it. the controller was pissed and rightfully so.

ElvianEmpire In a Bravo airport, almost certainly clearance is required to leave the airspace. (Including VFR departures). Usually you’ll hear “VFR departures contact clearance delivery” on the ATIS. The only exception is aircraft remaining in the pattern since they aren’t leaving and don’t need to be sequences. They’re under positive control from the tower. So a VFR departure out without clearance likely isn’t legal here.

@@ElvianEmpire all that shenanigans almost got people killed. I've never seen anything like that in my career. Absolutely uncalled for.

@@RomansFiveDotEight - I got my initial private pilot's license at BFI. You can depart VFR just talking to the tower. But because you have SEATAC just a few miles to the west and Renton just a few miles to the east, it is INCREDIBLY tight airspace and there are very specific corridors you must fly. These corridors are narrow, but with a modicum of preparation and careful attention to landmarks you can do it no problem. Student pilots manage this several times a day at BFI, flying about 15 miles E to go practice maneuvers, then flying back into BFI airspace to practice landings. These Jet Jokers obviously did _not_ understand the airspace or the requirements for flying VFR properly out of BFI. Their sloppy maneuvering is a shameful display that demonstrates their lack of understanding (or disregard for) the incredible amount of air traffic surrounding BFI - all of it flying at a similar altitude. The airport has pamphlets in just about every FBO and business around the airport that explains these corridors and procedures! And again: If student pilots can understand this stuff, it ain't rocket science. Although it still would've been a bit shady, they could have departed VFR and flown at a low level to the north or the south (through the defined corridors underneath SEATAC airspace), then climbed up once clear of the Class B airspace and dialed up ATC on the phone or the radio to get their IFR clearance. Instead they deliberately misled the BFI Tower by stating that they were going to just make a couple of pattern flights around the airport. Their initial radio calls clearly set expectations with ATC that they were just doing a quick flight. But then *after* screwing up the pattern and obviously having problems remaining in the proper airspace, they started asking for IFR clearance from the Tower (not the right guys to ask in any case) all while the controllers are still dealing with the aftermath of their poor maneuvering *and* while they are still posing a possible threat to the other airplanes in the immediate vicinity. That controller was perfectly justified in telling them to go to hell (i.e. land the plane).

You are an idiot he was not 0/360 and you can CLEARLY see that.

When you're about to run into another airplane, you don't think that constitutes maybe an emergency and to expedite the turn BEYOND their max 30 degree bank?

There is a comment that is fortunately now at the top of the page explaining the context. The aircraft had an IFR flight plan all set up before departure but had to change runway for performance reasons. The new runway could only be flown under VFR, so Ground advised the aircraft to take off with VFR and then pick up their planned IFR clearance airborne. However, Tower was never informed of this fact and assumed someting between the aircraft wanting to (a) fly patterns and come back in or (b) wanting to request an IFR clearance out of the blue mid-air.

No one asked

yeah, I wasn't able to see anything. I had to just sit here and listen.

Ditto! I was starting to type an identical response, then noticed your post. This crew needs desperately to be taken to the woodshed!

​@@stephenzenerak7846 Depending on the traffic capacity of a certain area you may sometimes be "held for release" meaning that the controller is waiting for a capacity slot for you to depart with. At un-towered fields this is particularly common due to the airport only being able to handle one IFR aircraft at a time. If the weather is good you can depart VFR to get out of the congested/problematic area and then pick up your IFR clearance enroute. It sounds like that is what these guys tried to do but instead they asked to stay in the traffic pattern instead of requesting a "departure to the north". Then they tried to pick up an enroute clearance in an already congested airspace (which is why they probably weren't given their departure clearance on the ground) which likely annoyed the controllers as there are capacity restrictions in place for a reason. Trying to pick up an enroute clearance can backfire if you try to pull a fast one because ATC can decline if their workload permits (as they originally did in this video).

The shortest explanation is this: (and based largely on conjecture, as to the flight crew's motives) First, Download this.PDF: tinyurl.com/y2sp9z6y *I'm guessing that the passenger/passengers aboard 'pushed the flight crews's buttons' to get them the he** out of Seattle. Vistajet's dispatchers/flight ops staff must have had some knowledge as to what was up. Vistajet "ain't no small company", they are a large, and legitimate charter airline. Add to this, the fact that a G550, is a $45M, to $65M (amenities), very technically advanced machine; those pilots aren't the overworked/underappreciated and poorly paid commuter airline "puddle jumping jitney hack drivers, flying puddle jumpers just to build PIC time and get called-up to the big leagues", these guys would feel right at home at any large airline. *IFR flight plans involve significant planning, when considering that the probable flight route encompasses/incorporates a great deal of distance across Canada, and through Canadian airspace; over Greenland; over **Iceland; skirt Ireland and the UK; then, finally, "Eurocontrol". As before, this flight needed to submit an IFR Flight Plan, proposed route of travel, times of expected waypoint arrival/in-transition/transitional departure between those waypoints, altitudes, proposed/actual expected speeds, WEATHER, I say again - WEATHER. Remember, Jetstreams can either help you, or slow you down; they've had to have had a look at the latest "North Atlantic Track" mapping/projections. It would take no less than 45 minutes, to key-in the navigational waypoints necessary to fly to Athens, and that doesn't take into account, the (normally) three verification procedures and confirmations necessary in most airline policies and procedures manuals/documents. **Athens would distance-wise, be at or near the maximum range of a G550; I'd schedule a refuel @ Reykjavik NEVER PUSH THE MARGINS Combine this info, with the other stuff written in responses, and you'll be at least halfway there. This flight, plainly, and simply, pulled a bulls**t move, in an ill-advised attempt to butt in line. One thing is certain, someone, somewhere got chewed out, and bigtime, over this....

Does anyone know if they initially entered the IFR queue, and timed out, or attempted changes which locked them out, and voided the original IFR transmittal/sequence?? Sorry, and thanks!!

MonkeyPaw Thankyou!! 👍🏼

who said that? Lincoln or Trump?

Peter Kan no, should’ve given them “Fly 090 heading, maintain VFR recommend Seattle Center on 12345 for VFR flight following. Good day fine sir”

Peter Kan 😂😂😂

Peter Kan came down and pounded it into their head with a nail gun.

You should chech out more facts before judging... It was a communication breakdown within ground controlers.

@@ForeverMrZaphaell What kind of communication break down? So the takeoff briefing was "we are 10000 pounds above the landing weight and let's do a traffic pattern."

Nah, there wasn't an Air Force One in the session XD

Which side of the conversation do you find most painful? As a pilot I think the flight crew acted like a bunch of turds.

sir how was the salary?

This might seem painful to read but would you be so kind as to provide some credentials?

Lies!!!

Hey Michael, I know the pilots have operational limits they have to fly the plane within, but the "we're at max bank" kind of sounded to me as more of a "F-you ATC" and less of a "this is all she can handle at the moment." Am I correct? (Edited to get the correct quote.)

Which pilot? The guy who took off for Greece without a flight plan or IFR clearance and expected to file it with the busy local controller while in the pattern? The guy who confirmed he was VFR before leaving the ground? I guess it does take nerves of steel to fly when you're that low-functioning and self-obsessed. I'm glad they're all safe.

@@beenaplumber8379 Thats not the case, look at the posts above, the Vistajet did file IFR flight plan but was too heavy so they said depart VFR and once airborne youll be set up for IFR, ground failed to relay that to tower and the pilot had no idea why they were being turned around

@@mattnsac My bad if I missed that detail. That adds a whole new dimension to the charlie foxtrot. That wasn't clear from the video, and the title says the Gulfstream caused the chaos, so that's why I thought he was being rather unreasonable. What a mess.

@@mattnsac even tho they had filed IFR already, they did not pick up an IFR clearance from the ground. The pilots are wrong for doing this. As per your comment about the ground controller not passing along the info to tower, that’s not the case bc he was squawking VFR and did not have an IFR squawk code. Also while departing, the tower controller did try to confirm the pilots intentions and they failed to communicate properly to the tower controller. The pilots are clearly in the wrong and should definitely be given a phone number to talk to the FAA so that they can learn US NAS procedures. It’s not that hard to pick up IFR on the ground at a towered airport.

@@meet1348 I bet you've never picked up an IFR clearance in your life outside of MS Flight Simulator. In the real world, getting an IFR release in congested airspace like that is a non-trivial task and is ridiculous in severe clear VMC conditions. I bet you think IFR should always be closed on the ground, too? Even if that means effectively shutting down the surrounding airspace for upwards of 15 minutes for no reason at all.

I noted that about half way through 868 switches who is talking on the radio. I wonder if the first pilot was worried he'd loose his professional calm with ATC.

Robert Edmondson as a Sim pilot, I was in deep facepalm mode.

Not true, I have absolutely no aviation education but am still able to follow both whats going on in the video and the discussion in the comments. (I have listened to quite a few atc and technical aviation videos and played some flight sim though...)

Just communication(s) Rules & Regulations whereas, the pilot had a plan, however, information was not passed along to the local controller as to the "primary intentions" of the VFR departing Vistajet in the pattern and his intended "transition" to go from VFR departure to IFR clearance. ✈🌍😎

Wanted to do some sick sightseeing over Seattle.

I don't understand

Too much of a lineup.

Sometimes if there is a delay in picking up IFR on the ground for whatever reason, some pilots would go VFR then pick it up with departure. it's a schedule thing, keeping his time slot or just don't like waiting.

Maybe they even filed a Z flightplan, we don't know?

Read other comments to understand

Nailed it

Are they really legal though, if they are not able to fly the pattern properly and still accept that clearance?

They may have been legal until they busted the Bravo. They also intentionally lied to the controller, that could fall as a bust for multiple FARs

@@markus_landgren they never wanted to fly a pattern. They were trying to leave the area VFR but the tower turned him to the downwind

@@smitty1893 I know he didn't want to fly a pattern, he just deceived the controller by telling him he wanted to fly the pattern when he in reality had other intentions. Is it legal to lie to the controller like that? I'm not saying it isn't, I'm genuinely asking.

He probably would've gotten what he wanted, if he'd just asked for a VFR departure to the east or north, and then asked for flight following, and then asked for IFR clearance from Center while giving his VIP passenger a flyby of Snoqualmie Falls...

Dangerous? How?

blake 1. Busy airspace, tracon spitting out instructions with hardly any space to check in, so you have to wait. 2. While waiting, you’re inside a busy airspace with no established separation services, so you have to focus outside, not inside in writing down clearances.

@@TakingOff its annoying. Its not dangerous. for some airports it is the ONLY way to get clearance. Dont spread disinformation.

@@philipmcniel4908 See the comment near the top of the video which explains what happened. It appears the pilot received IFR clearance to Athens from Ground and a flight plan filed, accordingly. Then for reasons explained, a different runway then originally anticipated was used for takeoff, which required a VFR departure. All of this was discussed between the pilot and Ground, and approved. Ground did not relay enough info to the Tower which led them to believe the plane was attempting to reland. Then chaos ensued...

Fuel dumping is something to be done only when there's no other options (i.e. an emergency or a situation in which the pilots deem that they must return to the airport ASAP), it's a rather dangerous operation, traffic at or bellow FL of the aircraft dumping must be alerted not to fly in the area among other considerations like economical and environmental.

@Javier, he didn't mean dump the fuel. He meant stay in a hold a burn off the fuel.

@@micahgreene4573 Oh... Ok! My bad

@@javiercaselli That's assuming the aircraft in question is equipped to be able to dump fuel. Not always the case with smaller aircraft.

It’s legal to pick up an IFR in the air with departure. It’s quite common to ask tower for VFR departure to say the North, and then pick up your filed route with departure. Now you can ask for closed pattern, and then leave the pattern, and not tell tower what’s going on.

It's a pretty common thing IRL. You can take off VFR and get your IFR clearance from the Approach/Departure controller. If you're at a Bravo airport you can call up ground and say you want to take off VFR and get IFR clearance airbourne. It's a shortcut if you don't want to wait for a slot on the ground

Yeah. A "near-miss" mid-air right over the airport because a couple Commonwealth cocksuckers with an entitlement complex every.big as their "skills" and "training" and capacity to "pilot" anything but a PAPER AIRPLANE COMPETENTLY IS SMALL DECIDE TO "OUTSMART" ATC, THE FAA AND THE "TRAFFIC" BY "PLAYING DUMB" SO CONVINCINGLY BECAUSE AS ANYBODY WITH A FUNCTIONING BRAIN CAN SEE/HEAR THEY DON'T HAVE TO "PLAY DUMB" PERIOD AND OBVIOUSLY "OUTSMARTED" ONLY THEMSELVES IS JUST FUCKING "HILARIOUS", ISN'T IT? SO.WHO WAS DOING YOUR JOB WHILE YOU WERE STANDING AROUND WATCHING THE AIRSHOW" AND HOPING TO SEE SOMETHING "FUNNY"? WHATEVER AMERICAN CO-WORKER(S) OF YOURS WHO ALWAYS HAVE TO COVER FOR A DUMBFUCK "PLANESPOTTER" THAT'S PROBABLY IN "AMERICA" TO "WORK" ON THE SAME H1B "GUEST WORKER" VISA THAT LETS "COMMONWEALTH CITIZENS" INTO THE U.S. SO THEY CAN BE A WASTE OF SPACE IN HERE INSTEAD OF BACK "HOME" WHERE EVEN THEIR FELLOW "COMMONWEALTH CITIZENS" CAN SEE THEY'RE USELESS AND ACCIDENTS WAITING TO HAPPEN? PROBABLY. SO HOW.MANY TOILETS CAN SCRUB OR TRASH CANS CAN YOU EMPTY AT YOUR "AVIATION INDUSTRY" JOB BEFORE YOUR "MIND" STARTS TO WANDER AND YOU SLIP BACK INTO "PLANESPOTTER" MODE?

@@deeremeyer1749 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

@@deeremeyer1749 shut up.

@@Penoatle Up yours.

@@deeremeyer1749 dude your reply is so ridiculous :)

In can be fun to fly through, right over major cities. But land at? No thanks!

He would have been in a long lineup for departure if he was leaving with the rest of the IFR flights. Leaving VFR and then picking up IFR enroute was his cunning plan. I'm sure he's done it many times with a more savvy controller.

He was being an arsehole and trying to save the 20-45 minutes it would take to do it all on the ground first.

@@andytaylor1588 So I presume then for an IFR departure, it would have had to be coordinated with all the other IFR departures from the other airports?

Yea the tower should of giving him to departure to have them make him IFR. I wouldn't be surprised if he got his IFR on the ground and then when he found out he was getting delayed decided to depart VFR.

A carefully balanced ballet that can be deadly. It's absolutely mindblowing at times.

Been flying in the US. Smaller Towers like you to pick your IFR clearance on the ground because of the paperwork they need to fill out and send back and forth with their small fax printer. Hold for release is a common term you hear which just means wait at an intersection or at the hold short till your route is clear and IFR clearance is given.

i don't know about clearances where they are, but flying here in australia you talk to clearance delivery before you even get your taxi clearance

I would love to be that entitled just for a day or two.. Different world.

Which part of it stood out for you?