Glad to even have a short video. We’ll miss the guys tomorrow in their full videos

Finally, real criticisms that aren't "fit n' finish" or "unbroken history." As someone looking to make a purchase, this actually helps and gives me info I didn't know, so thank you.

I just bought a 2021 Challenger Darkhorse in may, and I have to say that I 100% agree with everything here. The darkhorse and limited are over 30k after dealership fees. The Darkhorse should come with highway crash bars at MINIMUM for what they charge. I hate that the windshield rattles at speed. It seems cheap for the price point this bike is placed in. I absolutely love my indian and don't regret buying it, but they should come more equipped for the price. It feels like they missed the opportunity to really come out on top over HD with some aspects of the bike rather than just ever so slightly doing a little better.

You guys hit the nail on the coffin for me. Those are the same things I complain about as well - the nickel and dime crap. As for the Dealer charging you to flash the bike with stage one tune. The price was excessive for a 10-minute job. My old man always told me to make time to go to the dealer just to shoot the shit. These relationships can sometimes be beneficial. I installed my own air intake and the tech told me to bring it by and I will just throw the tune on for free. It took him 10 minutes. I also give the dealer my business by buying apparel and parts from them. Which are always cheaper than buying them online from the Indian website, they always give me a discount on them.

Nice, I appreciate the video> As I have stated before, I am a dyed in the wool Harley rider, 41 years. I test rode 10 HD bikes at Laconia last week and then the Challenger. Hands down the Challenger (Stage 2 bike at the Indian test ride tent) was superior in suspension, power, and features (that adjustable windshield is absolutely the best). Sport mode was awesom for a simple stage 2 bike. I like the look of the Challenger but it doesn't have the visual appeal the Harley has (sorry but what I grew up with). The other issue is the dealer network being very small. But bike vs bike the Challenger is superior to the Road Glide or Street / Electra Glide all the way. And Mike, this is just how it is in the bike world, bare canvas that you are forced to make your own. Pisses me off also but Harley does the same thing. Each individual piece costs $. I have built several, I fab some stuff, modify oem, stock stuff and just bite the bullitt and buy the accessorie pieces. It sucks but it's the tax we pay. Ride on!

G'day mates! How ya going? I am an Indian bloke who grew up in Australia and I reckon your show with Mike in it is a bloody ripper! This is for Mike: Mate, you give hope to me and my son that being a real man isn't outdated and your flair for self improvement and sheer competence in everything you venture into and your eloquence are things the world can use many a dose of! Can you please talk about your perspective on self defence and especially empty handed skills and the arts you've trained in and train in if any? Thanks a bunch both! Cheers, Suresh

I have a 2020 roadmaster,I agree about the extras that the bike should come with from Indian. Especially the seat. That being said, best bike I have ever sat my ass on. Plenty of torque. Looking forward to hearing more about the stage kit.

I juste bought a brand new Challenger Limited and I agree with EVERYTHING in this video. Some stuff SHOULD come with the bike by default. Crashbars, front and back, backrest, homelink...

Saw clip thumbnail and thought Mike was Fred McGriff in the Tom Emanski baseball instructional videos.

I bought a Wimmer Air Cleaner and 2nd hand Indian Stage 1 slip-on’s, so I had no “tune card”. But I also bought a Dynajet PV3 from FuelMoto and got a bunch of tunes I can select from. They custom create one for you after sending them a download from the stock ECU. You can also request tweaks based on what you are experiencing. I flip flopped between three tunes for a bit until I settled on one that gave me better mpg and drivability. It doesn’t mess with the drive modes either. Think the tuner was $299. I can also mount it on the bars and leave it hooked up for real time stats or logging.

Overall great review, heated grips is a bit nit picky in my mind. I don't understand why everybody thinks you need them

Good video and same things I've noticed. I'll be buying a Challenger this year and probably do base model then add the bars, stg1 etc.

Love this !! tell it like it is.. Just bought our new Pursuit last weekend From Ocala Indian.. we love it, and we agree with every thing you just stated...and yea, we got the Stage 1 installed before we bought it, along with Rinehart slip ons, and some cool lights were added in this upgrade... Yea, it was all stupid expensive but this is the keeper bike. Traded in our bmw k1600b in on this, and took an ass kicking, but we were just done with trying to make a bike into something that it isnt. Loving our new Pursuit!!

I recently purchased a 2023 Challenger Dark Horse. I agree with most of what you're saying but if I may let me add a few things I feel you left out. How come on a dark horse model they give you chrome clutch and brake levers?? Could they not put black ones on from the factory? The nav is absolutely $hit!!! Sometimes it's glitchy sometimes it doesn't load at all and apparently, from what I read in all the forums that's normal?. I did all the updates and still does it.. I couldn't agree more that the stock mufflers on it are so quiet. That's the first thing I changed. I put on Basani slip ons. I will say that that bike has plenty of power right out of the factory. I may do a tune when it finally comes out.But I doubt I'll do anything more than that.

All touring bikes should come decked out head to toe if you're paying 28k plus. Even the small stuff. Large brake pad, passenger floorboards, crash bars, larger windscreen. Its ridiculous the price these touring bikes are. Basically everything needs to be set up stock like the indian springfield standard, it has everything but the radio

They are good enough to feed the fans, when they dont have too. Now my wife is starting to dig the show!

Yea your right .I bought the base and ridiculous what I've spent and added.I will say the Loyd tune has been great.Nice looking bikes you guys have!

I totally understand and agree with your point of view they are pulling the Harley Davidson business model the old Nickel and Dime BS. This is why inferior metric bikes are finding their way into American’s garages.

No motorcycle manufacture has those accessories on the bike right off the stock showroom floor. Not one. Can't bag on Indian for that. (note) I 100% agree with you.. but that's just not how the industry operates. I added most of those things in at the dealer, along with the big stereo before I even brought mine home. You all please keep the rubber side down! Also if your looking for a way better tune look at the Lloyd'z garage tune. It's a monster.

thanks for the intel ahead of time

All points are valid for some and not for others. Indian gives already many extras than Harley for example. My only complains about Indian. The aftermarket accessories is narrow. And Indian parts and accessories are expensive and come to the first point sometimes no other aftermarket options to choose from.

Man.. I can't agree more. I spent $32k for a '22 Chieftain Dark Horse Icon... and I agree at that price these bikes should be coming with some of the options. Heated grips especially. Another option.. and its not a big deal.. but for $30k+ it should be included.. the rear engine guards. Mine came with front guards.. so why cheap out and not include the rear too?!!!

Real talk, straight talk from Matt and Mike i appreciate this no bullshyt video. This info Matt just shared saved me $427.00 liked & subscribed. 🗨️☝️😎

Great lookin bikes guys.. I Have a 2020 DH Challenger. Totally agree with what your saying but...If you buy HD your gonna get the nickel and dime shit too. The difference is, for the same money on the Indian, you get a FOX shock, true Brembo stoppers, inverted front fork, more power, and a much better suspension. So compared with the competition..I think the Challenger is a better value. Thanks for the video.

Thanks man someone needed to say it

I went to lloydz garage for ECU flash.

I think your $400 Indian tune should have been free. When you buy the intake from Indian you get a card with a code to go get your bike flashed.

At least you didn’t have to spend 4-5k on engine mods

I had a lot of similar gripes with mine when i bought it, 2020 deepwater metallic limited. I got it from the dealership in Sturgis though, AND it was a demo model so i got a little bit of a deal on it. The homelink was dissapointing to realise that was an additional thing you had to puchase to make it work. I ended up getting a cheap set of highway pegs, and rear crash bars off of amazon because i wasnt going to fork over 500 dollars for the OEM ones. Additionally, i picked up the driver backrest and bracket from a third party vendor as well.

I have an android. Is that why my phone restarts over and over again when I plug it into the USB?

I really like the new roadmaster limited.only needs a few things to make it touring ready. But to outfit the challenger the same, your getting into the 36k range. Tourpack, floorboards, crash bars, etc. $$$!!

my problem is ride command and throwing fault lights...

but how do they sound? do they have a nice rumble or do they sound like goldwings?

Yes 4k for a tourpack? Aftermarket needs to catch up. Still no hard lowers with vents for the challenger? Those vinyl cheap lowers are the best they can do? That's a deal breaker for me.

Yeah I just went through this BS with my stealer always trying to clip my wallet - it’s comical honestly pretty close to criminal 😂😂😂

So I’ve been pricing out bikes new I’m definitely going to the challenger instead of a Harley this time, don’t get me wrong I love Harley, but the challenger with all the options I wanted was 32,xxx I went and looked cvo road glides 39,000 and I’d still have to do the bars and exhaust. Plus the suspension on the Indians is just killer the come with the inverted front end, and the way they balance those bikes, it feels like you’re on a 10 speed.

Great editing, Zach! Just a matter of taste - I like Mike's bike a little better but I do like Matt's tips. Beautiful bikes, gentlemen.

You dudes sound just like me!, love the bike, but not afraid to point out the flaws. Tons of owners put blinders on after they drop $30k on a bike. I have a '21 limited and the dealer gets pissed all the time when they find out I got parts elsewhere. The intake I ordered (over 6mos ago) comes with a tune card. My dealer said $50 (1/2hr labor) to flash the tune, $400 sounds like you got gouged or had to buy the card. The Challenger does all the bike things I want it to great (power, handling, braking, wind protection). Its the fricken doodads that piss me off the most! like you said RideCommand, We paid for it, shit needs to work and reliably! I do all my own work and I can tell you that pretty much every Indian accessory I've aded says "Made in China" on the box. I understand where we're at with manufacturing and that tons of shit is made in China, but then don't try to charge me some premium prices. Both Yall's bikes are matte, but the clear on the glossy bikes is trash! super soft, scratch it by looking at it. The only saving grace with some of these issues is that the RideCommand system is updatable so hopefully they'll fire all their programers and get us an update that will make the system viable. Supposedly a big update was due in late summer, but it's September so.....we wait. When I turn all that shit off and just ride it's the best bike I've ever owned.

Zach needs a moped to ride with yall!

It’s easier to sell a $30,000 bike to an idiot that doesn’t realize you will be spending another $10,000-$15,000 to bring the bike up to what you wanted in the first place.

if everything is added from the factory the bike cost a LOT more for shit YOU might not want. also you said the beauty of a bike is personalizing it!!! these ideas are in contrast!!!!!

Love those Indian motorcycles! They just keep getting better and better!!👍

Looking at those bikes being so similar, I was thinking it would look great with the opposing color stripe down the middle of each.

I myself own an Indian and I agree give me the option to have it all on the bike.

I don’t like the $1,500 for an optional color. Cars have optional colors at $495. Cars use a lot more paint.

Great video.

I’ve got the 14 Chieftain, same bitches Mike, not sure why they don’t just add all the comfort shit and charge you for it up front. Still an awesome bike, still loving my 14.

Exhaust, stage 1.... blame epa

That's the motorcycle industry...... Limited comes with heated..... I believe, darkhorses don't

Last “Real Indian “ was made in 1956

Is that Jacket riding gear? Where did it come from?

Jesus ya seems like they are pulling A Harley davidson their ya I'm surprised as the old victory cross country came stock with the heated grips and seat geez

What bars are on the white bike?

Man is this the new breed bikers, I’m 65 and have been riding racing all my life and I’m just pleased I have a bike to ride and still can, sure there’s a lot of bikes out there that are better or faster and come with extras at no cost , can’t have everything

Just got my 2021 Base Model Challenger. I put the front guards on it and just got my new Rinehart slip ons, next to go on. But question for you, what and where did you find the wide windshield? Thanks in advance Jimmy

The requirement for Bluetooth headset for Apple CarPlay is actually an Apple requirement not and Indian requirement. That being said, CarPlay crashes on me every single time I use it on my Challenger…rarely crashes in my car…so that makes me think the coding in the Indian version is bad.

agreed with everything said !! except the apple thing.. Im run android and BT works ..

Sweet bikes gentlemen. And good review.

Would like to hear what you say about the road glide. Seems like everybody digging every brand but Harley which is actually worse for Nicole and dining.

Love these type of videos want to see some dogs too!

Y'all may have just sold an exhaust system...she sounds great 👍

I got a question how do you guys clean your cars and motorcycles do you guys just do regular water and car soap or do you guys put any extra stuff on them or wax/buff them.

Are those the 14" KST Comanche bars? I assume they're basically the size of the Indian midsized bars.

Perfect video. The exact shit I want on one. Just got rid of my adventure touring bike. What’s a real price range to do all that work at the dealership?

Mike always making me act up 😏

You guys taken these bike on big trips (1000+ miles)? Curious about your thoughts for the longer rides.

where/who did the short antenna come from? I need that.

Windshield, where did you get it from ??

Love how raw this video is . Thumbs up sir 👍 Plus and extra Shit and Fuck 🤙

Boy, am I glad that I don't care about all this extra crap on my bike, I just like riding it! Putting a windshield on was a major mod for me.

What bars are on ivory..?

Beautiful bikes but I think personally harley is king when it comes to accessories

What state do you live in?

Wonder what stealer would charge to flash if you were running cat delete 🤭

you want all that ,get the PURSUIT and take the trunk off!

Sweet bikes

What is the windshield and highway bars called? Thank you!

now the PLASTIC hinge that mounts to the retractable windshield is stripped. wtf....

Just like the Ferrari in your Garage, Harley's are more nickled and Dimed together than any other bike on the market.

Mike any reason you picked the challenger over the something like a chieftain. My dad owns a 14 chieftain not sure what the difference is between the two just know it’s comfortable to ride. Imagine y’all’s are too.

What windshield is that?

Fuckin A dude! FUCK!

i’ve had nothing but problems . Clutch busted 700 miles ( was setup wrong from Indian according to dealer) , RPM fluctuations, shutting off at stops - needed some custom reflash . TPMS has to go dealer and pay $300 fuckin bucks to reset ? Hate the clunky shifting. Everything you mentioned plus no quick side bag release like my older 2015 roadmaster. Oh yeah - random hazard warning ⚠️. I’m so pissed i’m looking to get rid of it and not deal with Indian again . BTW. It’s not that powerful - Yamaha fuckin smokes it and that’s why you won’t see those bikes on ‘queen’ of baggers

Bikes look sick !! That's a bad ass helmet, tasteful mods. I bet Zach's sister would ride!!!

And everything you say is the same for Harley Davidson all bikes are the same but not everyone likes the same thing so they let you build it the way you like it

Heated grips? To get heated grips on a Harley you're looking at close to $40,000.

Fuckin’ right!

A lot of these complaints about things not being included on the bike shouldn’t be complaints. Just because you want certain accessories doesn’t mean that everybody wants them. Indians job is to create a base product that appeals to the most amount of people for the least amount of money. You start to include all those accessories as base and people will either balk at the extra stuff they don’t want or balk at the price. Also, I share your complaint about bikes and cars not being optimized from the factory but the fact is they are constricted by the feds on how the engines perform. That’s why all the exhaust on the market is for racing applications only.

verbatim my thoughts

❤🎉 7:39

Any dramas with the Ride Command? I've heard that's been a problem 🇦🇺

I don't like crapple car play ! Put Android auto in factory.

Make more motorcycle content! It’s why I sub.

🔥🔥🔥👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽💪🏽

30 grand and it has flat black paint...

LFG!

Indian is made by a snowmobile company.

Can’t say 5 words without cussing. Limited vocabulary

Get a car if you want all that. It's a motorcycle

Beautiful bikes, I love the Challenger. Im looking to buy one soon