As someone who has spent a lifetime in electronics I can appreciate the content of this video. I've fiddled with DIY mains cables in the past with mediocre results. However I was recently recommended some bulk mains cable at $82 AUD per meter and some "copper" mains connectors and made up two 1.5mtr cables for my monoblock valve amps. The difference was not subtle and really bought a wow factor to my system. Yes, mains cables can make a difference.
@Canadian_Eh_I2 ай бұрын
Thanks, I remain skeptical but words written by people with as much experience as you in electronics are noted.
@David-jm8wt Жыл бұрын
I connected my printer with a spare audiophile mains cable and the print quality appeared far sharper.
@chuckmaddison29249 ай бұрын
Try charging your electric razor. It will cut closer and stay charged longer. If you look at claims, they will say 99 . 9% pure copper. So is normal cable.
@stephenscharf62936 ай бұрын
It's clear you're being facetious, but in point of fact, after digital cables, power cables have the most signficant impact on sound qualitiy for a stereo system.
@dap7777546 ай бұрын
@@stephenscharf6293 I'm really not getting the sense that power cables have that effect you claim. Plus the electro-engineering theory as to why it should make any difference is very unclear.
@anonymousmc77276 ай бұрын
Mine gained 12 horsepower 😂
@chuckmaddison29246 ай бұрын
@@anonymousmc7727 I'm surprised, I thought you would have got 13.
@howardskeivys418410 ай бұрын
A mains cable delivers AC mains power from your wall mains outlet to your hifi components. The 1st thing your component does is converts that AC power to regulated and filtered DC power. Yes, mains cables can be susceptible to RF and EMF interference, more so on longer cable runs, but, by the time your component has converted it to DC, put it through a step down transformer, galvanically isolated it, regulated and filtered it, it’s highly unlikely there will be any detriment to the component’s audio reproduction. Yes, mains cables can and do make a difference. You would not use the cable from your bedside lamp to deliver power to your 3kw heater, would you? Vut, if you took the stock cable from your 3kw heater and employed it to deliver mains power to your bedside lamp, would it improve the performance of that lamp? I think you have the answer to this question!! There are better quality mains cables. Cables with a more snug fit. Cables with quality ends. Fray resistant skins, Etc. I think ‘price appropriate’ should be applied here. If you have paid £150 for your component, there is little point in spending £99 on a mains cable. If you’ve spent £5999 on a component then a £99 mains cable may be more appropriate, though I would never contemplate spending £99 om any mains cable. If you are looking to spend £500 plus on a mains cable? In my humble opinion your money would be more wisely invested in a higher end component. Many will claim that their expensive mains cables make a notable improvement. They doubtless genuinely believe they hear that difference. But how much of that is down to psycho acoustics and could they repeatedly pass multiple blind A-B tests? I’ve never witnessed anyone do that! All that having been said, if your ultra expensive cables give you more confidence in your equipment and greater overall pleasure, then in your case, it’s money well spent. Remember, you don’t listen to mains power, you listen to music.
@chuckmaddison29246 ай бұрын
I think I suggest somewhere ,remove the power outlet, pull the cable from the wall, and connect straight to hifi 😅
@literal_lee7 күн бұрын
Reasoning with an audiophile is akin to reasoning with a flat earther. 5 minutes of scientific explanation will debunk them both, yet they are oblivious to simple facts... And hence reasoning with these people is a total waste of time. "But muh senses tell me...." Yeah... sure...
@jhuc28692 ай бұрын
I bought a power cable from a high street electrical retailer. It made an enormous amount of difference to the sound of my system - I didn’t have one before and couldn’t switch it on,
@turokforever007 Жыл бұрын
Be honest with yourself. I remember getting a amp i had wanted for a long while. Within the hour, i was ready to sell it on.
@timothyfreeseha4056 Жыл бұрын
For me it makes sense that everything makes a difference. Your outlets make a difference! Your room- whatever the materials used on floors and walls, make a difference! I think the question is what sort of difference and how you balance your differences to give you the balance you are seeking with your system, and does that require a huge outlay to achieve. And, of course, you can spend the money.
@AT-wl9yq Жыл бұрын
I used to have a cable demo set up so I could AB back and forth between 2 pairs of cables. I was tired of dealing with clueless electrical engineers, and even more clueless recording engineers. I sat them down in front a system and played both pairs of cables. By the look on their faces, you could see they hear a difference. Every single time I got the exact same answer. They sound exactly the same. After a short discussion, I asked them if they would be interested that same test with 2 different amps instead of cables. They usually agreed, so I went back behind the equipment and moved some wires around to make it look like I was making changes. I did absolutely nothing to the system and ran through the same exact cable demo they just heard. Now they hear a difference. Not only that, when I asked them to describe the differences, they all pretty much said the same thing. I didn't get comments like cable number one was bright, and have someone else say cable number one was warm and dull. All the comments were very similar. When I told them they were tricked into telling the truth, they were not happy. This isn't about cables. Its about people not wanting cables to make a difference. And that's why the debate never ends. They don't want the truth, they want to win an argument.
@smartypants4571 Жыл бұрын
Very, very smart ! 👏 🤗🥰
@Gary_M Жыл бұрын
Nice story, bro.
@COLDMKULTRA Жыл бұрын
Hahah "things that never happened 101" 😅🤣
@AT-wl9yq Жыл бұрын
@@COLDMKULTRA I take it you were one of the clueless engineers that came into my store.
@COLDMKULTRA Жыл бұрын
@@AT-wl9yq 😅🤣😂 CLOWN!
@JoanneTelling1 Жыл бұрын
I plugged my kettle in using my Russ Andrews Classic PowerKord and my tea tasted better. As a someone who clearly enjoys a cuppa yourself, I suggest you do the same.
@r423sdex7 ай бұрын
My friend calls him, cl.ter Russ Andrews. Ever wondered how much they spend on brochures.
@stephenroe201 Жыл бұрын
I can see you've had a haircut but refuse to believe it.
@clivesilver4634 ай бұрын
Having been a HI FI enthusiast, for about 40 years, one thing will always hold true, my experiences are unique to me, for those who throw stones and want to ridicule do not understand anything, and their ignorance really comes to the fore, sometimes logic does not play a part and you have to leave it on the doorstep, your experience is, you heard a difference, and that's all that matters. cables have and always will be a subject where its contentious, but a good quality USB cable makes a difference I hear it, now the ignorant will want to attack that, and tear it down, makes not a jot of difference to me and my enjoyment.
@literal_lee7 күн бұрын
🤭.... whatever. Carry on. Logic and laws of physics are obviously wasted on you. Ta!
@clivesilver4636 күн бұрын
@@literal_lee Clearly a grasp of English is lost on you.
@literal_lee6 күн бұрын
@@clivesilver463 Not really. A bad USB cable will make a difference... Unless you use it for analog signals there will no audible or measurable difference between a decent one and an an expensive one. Very easy to understand if you'd have any basic grasp on electrical engineering.
@clivesilver4636 күн бұрын
@@literal_lee Yes really, A good USB cable will make a difference... I use it for Digital signals and there was an audible difference between a awful one and a decent one, very easy to understand if you have a basic grasp on someone else opinion.
@literal_lee6 күн бұрын
@@clivesilver463 You know what they say about opinions, right ? 😉 Opinions are meaningless! As is the fact that your ears could be more sensitive than the most sensitive measuring equipment. They are not !
@BRATWURST1 Жыл бұрын
The biggest improvement you can make to a mains cable is to shield it.I shielded my cables with some spare adhesive backed aluminium foil;then wrapped black electrical tape to insulate and grounded the foil with a short length of drain wire at the male plug end.On first listening to a well recorded 96k/24bit percussion album it was immediately obvious there was a reduction in glare and grain in the sound and a tighter bass.Not huge but not subtle either;the sound stage also appeared slightly larger.I should state the system is fed via a large isolation transformer and earth filter.The unshielded cables were obviously mitigating to certain extent the filtering effects of the transformer and earth filter.
@r423sdex7 ай бұрын
Not a good idea.
@stephenscharf62936 ай бұрын
The biggest improvement you can make to a "mains cable" is to increase it's capability for dynamic transient current delivery.
@michaelbuxton8947 Жыл бұрын
A person's ability to hear the difference in an audio system is directly proportional to his bank balance.
@legrandmaitre7112 Жыл бұрын
That is incorrect I'm afraid. I'm retired, I'm far from rolling in money. My power cables are an integral and essential part of my system. I know it sounds a little snotty, but some music lovers really do have more refined sensory attributes.
@elkartian Жыл бұрын
I have two Merlin power cables and 3 Merlin 6 socket power blocks,I bought them in 2010 .got one power cable plugged into my MVL A2+ amplifier and the other into my Roksan Caspian M2 cd player
@SoundappleАй бұрын
My ISOL-8 Substation Integra and Isolink Ultra cables make a huge difference. Much more so than speaker cables. My girlfriend and fiends hear the difference too, and they don’t care about the equipment playing.
@grandrapids577 ай бұрын
That quote is amazing.
@markcarrington8565 Жыл бұрын
I’ve gone down the route of making cables from good quality stock materials, including a shielded mains cable. I take great pains to separate mains from interconnects and speakers. I’m very happy with the system, but that doesn’t mean I won’t keep looking for improvements. For the next few upgrades I’m concentrating on the major components in my systems. One day, I’ll revisit the cables, however, not before I’ve upgraded the arm, sub-chassis and power supply on my turntable and also my speakers. At that point it will be not only easier to hear differences between the cables but also easier to justify the cost.
@engjds Жыл бұрын
Shielding is beneficial if you have a turntable in your setup, but otherwise everything else is in faraday cages immune to noise.
@Coneman3 Жыл бұрын
Investigate anti vibration measures.
@Coneman3 Жыл бұрын
Sell everything until your system is perfect. Hifi is the only important thing in life. You will enter a virtual reality once your system is perfect and you will feel like you are on stage or in the studio with the musicians. You can make tea for them if u like. It’s better than reality, believe me lol
@engjds Жыл бұрын
@@Coneman3 Then when you have done all that, you can book yourself into the nearest padded cell.
@keithbullen2242 Жыл бұрын
I bought a power cable from a Swedish company called supra lorad for around £100 online amazing cable for the money made a big difference to my system
@r423sdex Жыл бұрын
Big difference !
@matthewtaylor7355 Жыл бұрын
I directly plug into a wall socket 1/4 metre from my mains with a merlin mains plug etc.. By avoiding 15m of cable in the wall it makes a much bigger difence than plugging into the wall socketwith 1m audiograde cable... The 15 m of solid core cable in the wall produces a lot of hash etc
@analogidc1394 Жыл бұрын
I don't mean to be off topic, but as North American I'm just a but jealous of the heavy duty looking British power plugs.
@mattharwood4413 Жыл бұрын
I don't know..I'm from the North American too. I think UK mains look like you are armed for a street fight (ala Anchorman)! Those look nasty! 😂
@markw7997 Жыл бұрын
If you look into the design of the British plug , it's an amazing design .
@DrOz-007 Жыл бұрын
Are US plugs like the European ones? Being British, whenever I go to France I am surprised how feeble the plugs and wall sockets are. They resemble electric shaver plugs.
@GrahamAtDesk5 ай бұрын
I'm with you there. I'm English, and spent a year abroad. I always marvelled at how lightweight US mains plugs were. There are pros and cons, but you really know when a UK plug is properly seated in its socket. Having a separate earth pin is a pretty good feature too…
@GrahamAtDesk5 ай бұрын
@@DrOz-007 Similar, but US ones have flat prongs rather than round ones like on the continent
@COLDMKULTRA Жыл бұрын
Psycho Acoustic placebo effect explains all of this mains cable nonsense (and much else) 😂🤣😅 If I spend £2000 on a mains cable ... my system WILL sound better. (Yes, don't let logic get in the way!)
@Error2username Жыл бұрын
You cant fix crap with a cabel
@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Жыл бұрын
You haven't a clue what you're talking about. Cables can make a difference but not always and sometimes the sound is worse. If you're rubbish armchair placebo logic was valid we would always hear an improvement which is not the case. Additionally I've been involved in listening comparisons with groups of listeners and everyone heard exactly the same qualities of each cable.
@COLDMKULTRA Жыл бұрын
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Really? ... 😂🤣😅 Total BS!
@WXSTANG Жыл бұрын
These guys don't live in reality. They have bigger problems. Most of them are running dual 1000watt class A monoblocks out of one power connection. For context, a class A 1000watt amp needs 4000watts because they are 25% efficient. The average home plug can provide 2400watts (120V @ 20amps). Ummm... PROBLEM HERE!!!!!!!! These power cables are bandaiding a bigger issue at the connection which is WAY OVER TAXED RESULTING IN VOLTAGE DROP. They need separate 10AWG wires in the walls, to two separate phases, to power two monoblocks. First fix the main problem. The other issue is you have these companies selling these things that are CLUELESS as to how their customers are powering them. lol *ULTRA HIGH END HIFI*
@AT-wl9yq Жыл бұрын
Everything you just said is fabricated. I understand you may be skeptical, but why tell a bunch of lies?
@Firebottleman Жыл бұрын
It is also all about SYNERGY. Thank you for posting this video. Keep em' coming. Cheers from Canada.
@mattharwood4413 Жыл бұрын
Phil - Thanks for having the guts to do this: Truth. Frustratingly, power cables make a difference in my system. It would be so much easier and cheaper if they didn't! The worst part of it that cables have different sound signatures, sometimes very noticeable! Most of us don't have the money to try a lot of different cables. And, it isn't always based on how much you've spent. Sometimes $100-$200 cables are enough. For my Conrad Johnson pre-amp the difference between the stock and even a $100 power cable was shocking. I ended up paying the bucks for a Cardas power cable for it. I really want to try Shunyatas.
@BoomerUKEngland Жыл бұрын
I own 3 different versions of the Russ Andrews power cables, and agree they all sound different. It's all about synergy and sometimes the best cable can make a sound that is to 'bright' and using the lower end power cable costing less can be better.
@Gary_M Жыл бұрын
Bullshit.
@MrsZambezi Жыл бұрын
You'll be claiming God exists next! Complete nonsense, power cables cannot and therefore do not affect performance in any way.
@martinscase3904 Жыл бұрын
Surely it is possible to experiment with an objective open mind. Who wants to spend money unnecessarily after all? I've just had a trial of modestly priced replacements for my DAC and preamp, and I can assure you the sound of my system is transformed. 'it can't exist therefore it doesn't' isn't very empirical.
@MrsZambezi Жыл бұрын
@@martinscase3904 The placebo effect in action!
@tiagoribeirocoelho2245Ай бұрын
"It’s not so much about what the power cable does to the power, but what the power in the power cable does to the other cables around.
@firefighter0585 Жыл бұрын
Hundreds of feet of power cable leading up to the house. 50 feet or so inside the house of Romex and the last two feet of cable going into the equipment will make a difference? I'd need to see hard proof on that one.
@jim5866 ай бұрын
Did you not watch all the video?
@bobbybowers3566 ай бұрын
Many miles of water in the ground, pumped up into a 100 plus feet of dirty pvc line to your pump and tank, then many more feet of dirty rusty line into your sink. How can that few feet of line past the water filter make a difference in the quality of water coming out of the faucet?
@jim5866 ай бұрын
Again. All mentioned in the video. You’re attempting to apply your logic and refusing to accept something that goes against your water analogy or the miles and miles of electrical cable from the power station story. Listen to them and then make your mind up. You might scratch your head then like many of us and say to yourself, how’s it doing that?
@listeningto83715 ай бұрын
@@jim586 He said proof.
@listeningto83715 ай бұрын
@@bobbybowers356 It doesn't. The filter does. The Nordost cable does not do any filtering!
@madmeister407 Жыл бұрын
Another great video delving into a very subjective and facinating subject. My local dealer winced and moaned when he found out I used a power conditioner and mains RF filter between the socket and my equipment. He reckoned they were not effective and a waste of money. However, he was happy to sell £70 - £850+ mains cables without batting an eyelid. Nearly all of my friends can hear a profound difference to the better when the conditioner and filter are plugged in. Yes they're not cheap but when you spend thousands on a system you need to get the best out of it.
@MrsZambezi10 ай бұрын
Actually nothing on the mains side makes an iota of difference to performance, so you are imagining it. Of course a dealer isn't going to turn down the large margins on silly cables.
@madmeister40710 ай бұрын
@@MrsZambezi That's only your opinion, besides who are you to tell me what I can and can't hear.
@MrsZambezi10 ай бұрын
@@madmeister407 Nope. It's science mate. Electronics. You've been had!
@madmeister40710 ай бұрын
@@MrsZambezi No, don't think so. You stick to your opinion and enjoy whatever you listen to.
@MrsZambezi10 ай бұрын
@@madmeister407 Determined ignorance. Still it's your loss. Have a think about how a DC voltage in an amplifier can possibly be affected by a power lead or conditioner. It can't of course.
@nigelpearson6664 Жыл бұрын
40 years ago Naim Audio described how to improve sound using a beefy dedicated mains installation including unswitched sockets. DNM had exta to say. EV cars need similar at 32 amps. 4mm^2 rather than 2.5mm^2 if possible. More dynamic for very little money. Like bottles of wine it's all what you think. I suspect wine is 99% identical as chemical proportions, espeacilly if matched for grape and strength. I measured the mains recently. 85 ohms RF impedence. As it's neutral earth bonded it varies due to cable length. That is compared to 0.3 ohms or better at 50 Hz. That's how RF gets in. Naim speaker cable is about 230 ohms if I remember correctly. I was surprised the mains was so low. 85 ohms tends to minic 75 ohms which is an excellent energy transporter which isn't ideal for us.
@antcollins6594 Жыл бұрын
If you like, I'll bring along an ultra cheapo kettle cable from my box of same in the garage, and we could try some abx testing. I'm confident you'll not be able to hear any difference between that and your £300 Nordost - or any other at any price.... if you don't know which you are listening to in a properly controlled test. Same for my 4mm squared generic £1.50 / m copper multi-strand against any of your expensive speaker cables. 🙃
@bernardchesneau3091 Жыл бұрын
Two words here " properly" and "controlled", but a "controlling" brain needs to be tensed to stay "proper" in order to maintain that "control". And it is precisely when we let go of our tensions, in the brain and in our body that we become open to our "feelings" and become aware of the emotional changes that the music we are listening to is having upon us. You want to conduct double blind testing, then have real blind people who cannot just pretend to be blind, blind people do not need to tense up their brain to not be able to see for it is the "pretending" to be blind which, amongst other things which, is creating the tension. Have these peoplecomparative
@bernardchesneau3091 Жыл бұрын
Something when wrong in the message above which I will continue. Have these people participate in the comparative listening experience and you will have very interesting results.
@antcollins6594 Жыл бұрын
@@bernardchesneau3091 I think you are misunderstanding what a blind test means. Controls are simply those things you do to eliminate aspects of the test that will give a "tell" as to which device you are listening to. An example is having the two devices carefully level matched so that a volume difference doesn't present as an audible difference. Blind doesn't mean "unable to see" (EG eyes closed or 'pretending' to be blind - whatever that means) it just means you use only your ears, and can't use your other senses to tell what device you are listening to. The test is simply set up so that you can't see which of the two devices being compared is currently the one you are listening to. Ideally you'd do it double blind so that the person doing the switching doesn't know which device is which. This is quite difficult to set up though, so for informal testing single blind is normally OK as long as there is no interaction between the "switcher" and "listener" during the test that could reveal a tell also. And the objective is not (necessarily) to detect a preference. Just to detect if there is even an audible difference at all to have a preference *for*.
@bernardchesneau3091 Жыл бұрын
@@antcollins6594 thank for your detailed explanation
@engjds Жыл бұрын
Spot on, some people use eyes and empty wallets to judge sound.
@AnalogueInTheUK Жыл бұрын
Here's my quote: 'There are power cables and there are crappy power cables. Never use crappy power cables.'
@johnwalker8952Ай бұрын
No manufacturer has ever explained how their cables work: for example to specify an equivalent circuit. Hence they are unable to specify their 'design' in the usual units of electronics such that one cable can be measured and compared with another. Until someone does this (and bursts the bubble) audiophiles will go round and round.
@jimsregaturntableshifijukebox Жыл бұрын
Good for you for touching on this subject.
@stephenscharf62936 ай бұрын
In my direct experience, next to digital cables, power cables have the most significant impact on a stereo system's audio quality of any type of cable. There are some very specific reasons for this which you did not touch upon, so I'll list some video references here that you and your viewers will find informative, including some videos I've made a couple years back. Here are the links for your reference: 1) Caelin Gabriel of Shunyata Research and MIke Bovaird discussing power cables: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/b599iN1mttead3U.htmlsi=Z9sYSjLHxbbggaeH 2) Robert Harley and Caelin Gabriel discuss power cables (as well as other types): kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fJ1_gZaI1Jape6M.htmlsi=ZXd3lpUjahDWxEQk 3) Importance of noise reduction in Hospital as well as Hi-Fi Systems: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mMWpqcV9z8yagoE.htmlsi=5Tk80ZFpSbAsJ8Uv *How about some...data?* A couple videos I made a couple years back, demonstrating with DATA the benefits of using a noise-reducing power cord: Part 1: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nZiDdM1oxrG8d6M.htmlsi=xIhhQltJPChhxhm8 Part 2: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Y75pmryh0trQqHk.htmlsi=KwfX9LJxllE_GQ2p Something that most folks don't realize is that one of the biggest contributors to noise in a stereo system are the power supplies of the COMPONENTS THEMSELVES, specifically, full-wave bridge rectifiers (FWBRs). With respect to some reading material that discusses why power cables make a difference, including to dealing with noise from FWBRs, here is a link to additional information: shorturl.at/yRSZ9 Cheers, -Stephen
@GrahamAtDesk5 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing all that Stephen, I'm going to dig in and educate myself a bit…
@stephenscharf62935 ай бұрын
@@GrahamAtDesk Cheers, Graham
@JimClark-rw2zw Жыл бұрын
Audio equipment rectifies AC into pure filtered DC.. AC power filters and cords do not improve anything. Placebo effect is real. You think you hear it, therefor you do.
@richardelliott8352 Жыл бұрын
I often wish audio hobbyists would learn how human hearing works, along with Ohms law. this basic knowledge would scientifically eliminate ignorant positions about what they hear and the money they spend .
@davidcross890 Жыл бұрын
Hi Richard, Most of our audio friends are seriously misinformed and intentionally misled regarding how very important extreme quality power matters to whether you have a nice system at 20k to a million dollars plus or a Jawdropping showstopper system of beyond an incredible reproductive realism. Unfortunately, most ALL of even the Supposedly best and most expensive products available are pathetic in their measured and sonic performance in reproducing the source material with absolute faithfulness. I think at some point a MASTER CLASS ON POWER is s to be in order as well as a Public Live KZfaq comparative measured test of ANY and all OF the existing failures of fidelity of the who sorely lack faithfulness of reproduced source against the Real State of the Art of what is not just possible but what has already been accomplished. The comparative measured results show how embarrassingly poor performers most are. This has to change as more and more audio enthusiasts realize they have overpayed dearly for audio bling that lacks the substance of faithful reproduction of REALITY. Best to My Audio Friends.
@scottwolf8633 Жыл бұрын
Electrons do NOT flow from one end of a conductor to the other, through the conductor. The vibrating crystal lattice of the conductor is a barrier to such behavior and Electrons bounce off of and even move in the opposite direction. What occurs is the formation of Electric and Magnetic Fields outside of the conductor which is where the transfer of Energy occurs. Read the brilliant James Clerk Maxwell's work from the perspective of Partial Differential Eqs. Human perception, via the Auditory system is extremely fallible. The reason the manufacturers will not participate in Double Blind studies, will result in the aforementioned being extremely obvious. But if you desire to spend large sums of cash, on a phenomenon you really don't grasp and makes zero difference, have at it.
@bacarandii5 ай бұрын
You haircut improved the brightness and resolution of your video. Proof.
@ptg01 Жыл бұрын
I am sure it makes a difference but just like many things, it's the law of diminishing returns that one has to be cognizant of...
@a0r0a7 Жыл бұрын
I am going to use my senses, my common sense. Spend what you like it is a nice hobby and if you get enjoyment from that then fine.
@rayreid6123 Жыл бұрын
the proof is in the pudding. put a mask on plug in lots of diffrent cables and see if the person can pick the dearer ones. Its really that simple. Maybe im too rational.
@alferro3149 Жыл бұрын
Nordest Odin 1.25m £18,500.00 5m £36,500.00 I believe in cables and I build my own ones. In some gear you can ear the difference, in some you cannot. I will not comment on the price of the Odin or will be banned from KZfaq for life.
@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Жыл бұрын
You're spot on with your observations regarding cables.
@KevinBower-gy5be Жыл бұрын
So here's one to set the cat amongst the pigeons. System is all-olive old-school Naim CDS2/XPS, NAC52/Supercap, 2 x NAP 135 driving PMC OB1's - a lovely system built up over many years of scrimping, saving and gradual upgrades. But anyway ........... Circa 2006, a mate of mine (a nutjob audiophile tweakaholic incidentally) was the sales rep for Chloride - one of the world's leading battery manufacturers for forklifts etc. One of their biggest-selling products was a 3 x 2v cell 6-volt 240Ah lead/acid monobloc designed for use on smaller equipment like small pallet trucks - these things would get sold either 4 or 6 at a time for 24 or 36-volt machines. They were about three times the size of a regular car battery. He turned up one day out of the blue with 40 of these things on his van, fully charged and ready to go. My system was the best he knew of, so I was 'the chosen one' and there was something he wanted to try 'just for shits and giggles'. Long story short - we wired them in parallel using the pile of jumper cables he'd also brought along, and built a vast 240-volt battery, hooked up to a bog-standard mains distribution board using car jump leads from the final set of battery terminals in the parallel queue. The difference was absolutely astounding. Just staggering. Unbelievable. Even removing one or two batteries in the chain to achieve 234 or 228 volts was clearly audible - and remember that this system was already pretty hi-res to start with. Folks don't realise how important clean power is to the overall system sound - and although I've never tried out Powerlines, Nordosts or other expensive power cables (skeptical obviously until I just watched this) - maybe it's time for me to try. The outcome of the battery experiment BTW? I didn't go for it. Apart from the huge cost of the batteries themselves, the concept of having 10 x 30-Amp 24-volt chargers at £750 each (the 2006 price), charging batteries pumping out a coupla cubic metres of explosive hydrogen gas per minute whilst the batteries charged ..... well, let's say it was all a bit of a deal-breaker. Although in retrospect I could have charged them 6 at a time over 10 days with one charger - but without any music going on for a week and a half. Plus - the space needed to acommodate 40 x triple-sized car batteries was problematical. Great experiment though. Love the videos. Really down-to-earth-no-BS stuff. Just the way it should be.
@UK_Lemons10 ай бұрын
So here is the problem with what you have described. You cannot run dc power into an ac appliance that has a transformer in the power supply. The fuse, if present, or transformers will blow and let the magic smoke out. Transformers block dc and in the setup you describe, with the current available, will simply go into meltdown, literally until the primary winding fails. I am not familiar with NAIM gear but seriously doubt the accuracy of your description.
@UK_Lemons10 ай бұрын
BTW. batteries would be excellent for valve amplifiers. Absulutely no ripple. Perfect.
@sholtham1 Жыл бұрын
I think you said in a previous post that cables can often just work as 'tone controls' rather than always making a substantial difference. I really took this on board when demoing some expensive cables recently and it is so true! Also, your comment on how some components aren't affected by cables - I borrowed (and finally purchased) an expensive power cable and it was only when I plugged it into the streamer that it made a huge difference - the amps were indifferent and the DAC only so-so. Great post - I liked your story about the Odin cables - I am also listening to some fancy XLR cables at present - and daren't listen to ones that cost over £10k!
@thedogefather Жыл бұрын
If they work as time controls then you can measure the frequency response changes and post them for us please
@bradt.3555 Жыл бұрын
@@thedogefather Your forgetting that hidden something in the signal that audiophiles can hear but we can't measure. Well that's cause how do we measure " placebo"? They just absolutely refuse to accept that there's no difference and what they hear is just they're perceiving it different. I'm at the end of my rope trying to explain this phenomenon.
@bradt.3555 Жыл бұрын
Then I get asked, How do you measure soundstage? Are you supposed to try to explain what creates soundstage and what affects it? Change the signal to your speakers and soundstage can change, oh, but we can measure that, hmm. So if nothing changes maybe it's our perception, no cause we've denied placebo. Endless circle.
@Coneman3 Жыл бұрын
I’ve got a feeling that because the power is AC into hifi components, the power cable works dynamically with the power supply. Plus, remember that the cables into a component run close and are connected to the internal circuit boards. Don’t think of power leads as like water hoses.
@Benvos Жыл бұрын
I can’t seem to find Experience Filtration on your website, have I got the brand right? The look and flexibility of the cable appeal to me.
@williamsdavid5243 Жыл бұрын
I've got the speaker cable & the mains cable very difficult to get hold of now
@r423sdex Жыл бұрын
What frequency is RFI and EMI ? Its strange when I turn my amplifier up to maximum and put my ear next to the tweeter I hear nothing.
@MrsZambezi Жыл бұрын
You just have to imagine it exists.
@r423sdex7 ай бұрын
That's where I have been going wrong. Trying it again, I now hear loads of noise.
@markphilpot8734 Жыл бұрын
Power cords are not going to do Jack for your components sound. Before you rare up, power cord has one purpose and that is to bring power into your gear. Those crap power cords you get with your gear aren’t inspiring you when you see hyped up power cords by many manufacturers and I get that. The problem is that these hyped cords are made with unlisted materials by the NFPA, specifically NFPA 70 which is the electrical code. I question any power device which is untested by the testing authorities as safety of your gear is questionable by using it not to mention not safe. The alternative is making them from listed parts and wire. I have built power cords from listed parts and wire from 1985. SJO cord I use as wire. I use 12 gauge for all components except the power amp and for that I use 10 gauge SJO cord. The IEC ends and plugs are also listed and I prefer hospital grade as it offers the retention that is unsurpassed. These may not be the pretty kind you can buy in the store, but they are safe and listed. It’s up to you, but having safe and listed parts and wire gives you peace of mind and your components will be powered safely at a greatly reduced cost. Win, win!
@sound-flies Жыл бұрын
The shielding if for the cables next to the power cable. Like speaker cable running near the power cables
@totalplonker824 Жыл бұрын
Shielding is to help limit the RF/EMI entering the Signal Path, therefore helping to lower the noise floor
@Coneman3 Жыл бұрын
Very interesting. I like that you mentioned Dostoevsky, an INFJ like me. What makes this hobby fascinating is the number of points of dispute. It really can be a can of worms. I discovered a few years ago the difference vibrations can make on even solid state components. I am now developing a hifi accessory product to mitigate vibration issues. On mains cables, I would imagine the virtue is more about shielding the power cable from nearby interconnects rather than the other way round. Also, I have had the idea that what may be happening with mains cables, is something most have not considered. If the cable is quite stiff, as many are, when it is connected to the component it could have a stabilising effect and/or a mechanical/vibrational absorption effect. This would certainly offer performance benefits. Some mains cables offer vibrational dissipative properties, like Puritan Audio ones do. They seem to do this by being floppy, ie. Not stiff. Maybe the optimal cable is a stiff core with a soft floppy outer?
@bunsw2070 Жыл бұрын
The electromagnetic fields generated by a cable have to do with the amount of energy moving the electrons. I'd doubt the fields emanating from an interconnect would be significant to a power cable though they would be to a cable carrying a moving coil cartridge signal. I've been investigating electromagnetism for several months for building my own interconnect. They don't really know how electricity works (search - Jefimenko causality Maxwell's). They don't know what causes "skin effect" though everybody has their theory. And in solid state physics textbooks they describe metallic molecules as crystals that form ions and have the electrons joining up coherently as a group and circling the crystal as a "Fermi sea." This sea of free electrons is mostly shielded from the electromagnetic goings on inside the ionic crystal. Considering the size of metallic crystals in silver or in OCC copper, it's hard to see how the skin effect can happen at all (I don't doubt it, I just would like an airtight explanation). An OCC copper crystal can be over 100 feet long so theoretically a wire in a cable could be one single crystal. The electron transport in this situation is a mystery to me. Plus, electromagnetic signal is not transported by the electron but rather in the electric and magnetic fields which are almost entirely outside the conductor. That's why the dielectric material is so important. That's where the signal travels. I could go on for hours about this but am headed to work. As for vibration, I bought 2 sets of 4 Critical Mass Systems Center Stage 2M 0.8 footers. They were so expensive I could hardly stand it. They made such an improvement in sound quality that I've been reconsidering how physics works. I had to tweak then like crazy to reduce the few negative things they did (hockey puck under the bamboo shelf the footers sat on). I'm looking at buying 2 full sets of Revopods to compare. The ultimate solution is to get Seismion active vibration platforms. They're German though so I don't know what would happen if they ever had a fault and needed repair. Of course active platforms are expensive. I'd think you would need all of these products to use as references in the development of your own products. I'll maybe write more later about DIY power cables.
@Coneman3 Жыл бұрын
What I love about your reply is that you don’t pretend to know it all. So many in this field think they have all the answers, but no one does. The best approach is s totally open mind. Regarding the power cables, I meant they could affect the interconnects signal if the power cables are not shielded properly.
@210195111 Жыл бұрын
If you drop a load of money on a cable you listen harder. Hence the difference.
@timothyfreeseha4056 Жыл бұрын
You could drop a huge amount money and enjoy that difference!
@Kowinaida Жыл бұрын
What is your system?
@210195111 Жыл бұрын
@@Kowinaida Dali Epicon 2, Cyrus CDi x, Audiolab M-Dac+ and Pathos Classic Mk.111.
@Kowinaida Жыл бұрын
@@210195111 Wow that's serious high end. Incredible. Wish I had a system so amazing as that. Unbelievable.
@Error2username Жыл бұрын
@@Kowinaida i have speakers in my littel car thats bigger than thath🤣
@divertitiАй бұрын
The only people who think logically cables can't make a difference are those who don't actually understand how electricity works. Electricity is not electrons flowing like water in a pipe, electricty is propagation of an electromagnetic field through a conductor that completes a circuit. The electromagnetic field is generated by the surface of the conductor and very much affected by the dielectric material around the conductor. Your power cable is not the last meter of some delivery system, it's an extension of the primary winding of your component's power supply
@hugothebear11 ай бұрын
You dismissed the RFI issue but isn’t the point of shielding the cable related to reducing effects of the field, created by ac in the cable, on nearby equipment or cables which could be carrying signal level ? Although, If so a cheaper solution might be to arrange cables carefully ?
@thedogefather Жыл бұрын
the audio signal never flows through the power cable. seems sort of like changing the power cable on a paint sprayer and saying the paint looks better when sprayed out of the machine with the higher quality power cable.
@S8250503 Жыл бұрын
While you are correct in saying that the audio signal doesn't through the mains cable, "noise" does, which feeds directly into the electronic circuitry of your amp, cd player and turntable. The filtration of that noise before it hits your system gives your HiFi a chance to work properly.
@thedogefather Жыл бұрын
@@S8250503 any modern power supply that doesn’t have noise filtration is poorly designed and is the problem not the wire attaching it to romex in your wall
@brynybach7741 Жыл бұрын
The best thing I ever did to improve the sound of my system was to have a house mains optimiser installed. Yes they are quite big and difficult to place if you have a new house with your mains in one of those external wall white plastic boxes they fit as standard these days. I'm lucky enough to live in a old house with a internal supply box and with plenty of room next to it to be easily installed. For about £300 plus installation, a fantastic upgrade. As a bonus, it also extends the life of your other household electrical appliances as you no longer get those life shortening peaks and troughs.
@simonzinc-trumpetharris8523 ай бұрын
Everybody bleats on about how high quality mains cable makes a difference, but fail to mention the piddling 1mm bit of wire in the plug fuse.
@mr_teateas7 күн бұрын
Placebo effects. There is no different between stock cable and the others as long as if u keep the power cables away from each others your re good to go. What's all these BS about power cables have no idea. You can't change the sound with cables or fuses, maybe you can only avoid getting dirty noise that's all. Don't over do it, you ll only hear sound but not music. If you d like to hear better sound or the sound you like than change the pre amp simple is that.
@BoomerUKEngland Жыл бұрын
I use Russ Andrews kimber power cables, I'm at the stage I will never be without them either. The reason they work is the crossing of the individual copper cores helps reduce interference that's already present in the mains. Think of the cable as an extra filter for the power supply. Interference eventually finds its way into the analogue side of DACs, it's also a problem for class a/b amplifiers. Using these cables is like having a DAC uograde. I buy them second hand from ebay where there much cheaper. I demo these cables to people where I switch out to cheap £5 power cables and people who are not even into audio can tell the improvement.
@Gary_M Жыл бұрын
Lol
@engjds Жыл бұрын
LOL you do realise that AC is rectified and smoothed? so there is not signal to preserve, amplifiers and every other source uses DC NOT AC, you was conned.
@MrsZambezi Жыл бұрын
@jim5867 ай бұрын
I know this is a year ago but be careful with the Russ Andrews system of cables and filtration distribution blocks. Yes, the cables make a marked difference, especially with digital front ends. It gives the impression of smoothing the sound and making it more listenable for extended periods. I had a full system using cables and blocks. I’d used it for years. One day I was home demoing some speakers. The dealer wasn’t happy and took a look behind my rack. He shook his head and suggested I remove the block from the system and plug the amps directly into the wall (I was using mono blocks). The difference in transparency and more importantly, dynamics, was very noticeable. I eventually changed the cables to my amp and dac from RA to another brand and I was stunned at the difference. Just thought I’d mention it. Cheers
@andrewhaddon76897 ай бұрын
I remember when he was trying to sell us a machine to bevel the edges on our c.d's even at the time I thought what a load of B.S.@@jim586
@SidLives5 ай бұрын
I found in my system source units make the most difference,
@Thesimonwales Жыл бұрын
The placebo effect has much that explains this in my opinion.
@archstanton16284 ай бұрын
The only important thing about the kettle lead you stick in the back, is the fuse. Throw away any 13amp one you find in there, stick in a 3amp then you're golden.
@simonzinc-trumpetharris8523 ай бұрын
the fuse. THE FUSE!!
@markpitchford4779 Жыл бұрын
What mains cables would you recommend for valve power amps?
@hugobloemers4425 Жыл бұрын
B&Q
@Error2username Жыл бұрын
Valvepowered, No one makes better valveamp comp.
@S8250503 Жыл бұрын
Try Russ Andrews products, if you don't hear a difference you can send them back. His products are backed with sound electronics theory explained in his book the power and the glory.
@engjds Жыл бұрын
13A, dont spend more than £10.(I actually know electronics and why this is utter BS)
@S8250503 Жыл бұрын
@@engjds you, "know electronics?" How is he/she/them these days?
@oohtob66856 ай бұрын
I still dont get this RF field around power cables. Rel acoustics say you shouldn't have 2 power cables running side by side because of the RF field. That doesn't quite cut it for me because. If you've got a pair of wall sockets running 2 power cables out of them there indeed side by side upto a point. If you get my drift.
@JoanneTelling1 Жыл бұрын
'If the Doors of Perception were cleansed....'
@davidcross890 Жыл бұрын
MASTER CLASS for ALL...not just for the naysayers or misled will help the whole audio community even the current adopters
@johnpetrakis379 Жыл бұрын
Let me quote Amir of Audio Science Review "the blue batteries sound cool, the red ones sound warm, the dead batteries sound muted"
@davidcross890 Жыл бұрын
@@johnpetrakis379 Hi John, Most of our audio friends are seriously misinformed and intentionally misled regarding how very important extreme quality power matters to whether you have a nice system at 20k to a million dollars plus or a Jawdropping showstopper system of beyond an incredible reproductive realism. Unfortunately, most ALL of even the Supposedly best and most expensive products available are pathetic in their measured and sonic performance in reproducing the source material with absolute faithfulness. I think at some point a MASTER CLASS ON POWER is s to be in order as well as a Public Live KZfaq comparative measured test of ANY and all OF the existing failures of fidelity of the who sorely lack faithfulness of reproduced source against the Real State of the Art of what is not just possible but what has already been accomplished. The comparative measured results show how embarrassingly poor performers most are. This has to change as more and more audio enthusiasts realize they have overpayed dearly for audio bling that lacks the substance of faithful reproduction of REALITY. Best to My Audio Friends.
@johnpetrakis379 Жыл бұрын
@@davidcross890 Well, that's cool no fool. A little take on Lewis Carrol. "Tweekery & Twekerdumdum!!! Please, don't get taken to the Audio Deceit Cleaners, the current mantra underlying most of society and certainly technology. It's not broke, so Hey, let's fix it!
@jasonemanuel90702 ай бұрын
Guys,should I put a weight on my new Rega planar 2 or just forget about it & just put the money towards a new cart.
@bobnot24 Жыл бұрын
Power cable is still an antenna.
@engjds Жыл бұрын
Yes, but not when you have a source and load connected, its impossible to measure ANY induced IMF.
@user-kt7uz9xc5m14 күн бұрын
yes. very 🧐 just dont theoretyse its impossobilityes. its working very well
@papabear1417 Жыл бұрын
Just my musings on power cables. Different manufacturers do seem to have a certain sound. You said Naim products didn't like certain cables. Could it be power cables deliver the electricity in a way that 'rreacts' / 'catalyses' the electronics to accentuate the sound. All smoke, mirrors, snake oil and humans. They
@user-go8qz2gk5d11 ай бұрын
There is only one way to show that there is an audible difference between any two cables/components/whatever. Do a proper double blind level matched test and see if you can determine which is being used a probabilisticly significant number of times. Without doing such a test, there is no assurance that your knowledge of which cable is being used is not influencing your judgment. This is so obvious that it is sad that videos like this continue this nonsense without even mentioning or considering doing a proper double blind test. Snake oil!
@tonyjedioftheforest1364 Жыл бұрын
Interesting but what about the mains cable in my wall and the wall socket? Surely you would need to have your house re wired with such cables to make a difference.
@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Жыл бұрын
Nope!
@thepickyaudiophile Жыл бұрын
No, but you might want to do that too. I’m getting a separate group made, incl. gigawatt in wall cable and circuit breakers.
@engjds Жыл бұрын
Thats why I have 24k gold wires from consumer to sockets (just joking) this section is complete tosh, but are you going to trust an hifi guy selling this stuff or an engineer?
@tonyjedioftheforest1364 Жыл бұрын
@@engjds yes I would trust Phil.
@engjds Жыл бұрын
@@tonyjedioftheforest1364 Logic wins with me, earth is not flat.
@jamiewm Жыл бұрын
If people are happy to pay hundreds or thousands of pounds for power cables then good luck to them, personally I don’t believe it.
@rejean27443 ай бұрын
If power cables made a difference, manufacturers would at the very least offer upgrades to the equipment they sell. I'm not aware of any that do. Your ears are not more sensitive than the measuring equipment.
@pickyas Жыл бұрын
Are there audiophiles out there who use these cables all the way back to the fuse box…?
@Error2username Жыл бұрын
Yes, didnt you know? Ps audio have vids👍
@S8250503 Жыл бұрын
The equivalent would be using under-sink water filters all the way back to the water mains coming onto your property. You only need one decent filter to do the job.
@pickyas Жыл бұрын
@@S8250503 Ah ok, thanks. I didn’t realise the cables were filters..
@pickyas Жыл бұрын
@@S8250503 just a thought: if the cable is being used to act as a filter, then why don’t people just use a cheap(er) filter between a cheap HiFi power cord and the HiFi device itself ?
@engjds Жыл бұрын
Probably, no doubt they use all kinds of magical devices straight from the magical bean forest as well, but there is no talking to people like that, audiophile circles can be cult like, faith in psuedo science.
@clubsport9118 Жыл бұрын
Oh dear…
@andrewharrison8975 Жыл бұрын
With regard to your literary quote, it is equally valid to reverse the logic of the original.
@UK_Lemons10 ай бұрын
HiFi bs mongers should start selling air purifiers because they definitely make the wifi work betterer for the streaming.
@markw7997 Жыл бұрын
I've been into hi end equipment all my life and a lot of this is snake oil and how do I know , because now I've got numerous qualifications in electronics.With all due respect to Cheshire audio , he wouldn't exist if it weren't for gullible buyers willing to believe his comments on the gear he sells. How can mains coming in from a consumer unit in 2.5 mm cable be suddenly transformed into good sound be adding a different mains cable ......Now don't get me wrong you can have a good mains cleaner with fancy filters , they will have some bearing on getting clean mains , which you can actually see on an oscilloscope. I used to get cable from hi fi shops and they would say things like , give it a week or two and let the speaker cable bed in ...........wtf are they talking about , nothing can bed in on a cable .....What happens is that you acclimatize to the sound ......Its like this , if you buy two suits and one cost you £50 and the other cost you £1000 you immediately feel good in the £1000 suit than you do about the £50 suit ......it's snake oil and psychology........
@ronlysons6750 Жыл бұрын
Phil's a really nice bloke to deal with, more than happy to let you try his gear at home, which is more than can be said for some dealers. However, his fuse video and this one have me cringing.
@markw7997 Жыл бұрын
@@ronlysons6750 Yes he seems a nice guy , but these hi fi shops prey on the vulnerable in my opinion..They would attract a younger generation to hi fi if they would stop using the bullshit vernacular by stop using terms such as the amp sounds bright and cartridge sounds warm . If they used curtains in front of the gear they're displaying and people would have an unbiased view in stead of seeing Naim or Linn on the products.
@ronlysons6750 Жыл бұрын
@@markw7997 I agree with you 100% in everything you say, but if people are foolish enough to part with their money, (and they can always get a refund if not happy) then good luck to them. I've also been involved in hifi for a long time, 40 plus years and I don’t buy into this mains cables and fuses to upgrade your hifi..
@engjds Жыл бұрын
Yeah I think anyone into electronics knows it as well, even someone with basic ohms law experience can do the math.
@richardsinger01 Жыл бұрын
Never having heard expensive hifi that might resolve the difference that power cable might make, all I can say is this whole idea makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me.
@Pete.across.the.street Жыл бұрын
Doesn't have to make sense to make an audiable difference
@richardsinger01 Жыл бұрын
@@Pete.across.the.street Please allow me to clarify my point. If there is a real improvement then yes, it does have to make sense - there has to be a logical explanation for it. (Otherwise we might as well ascribe it to magic and have done with it). In this case I have no idea what that explanation might be.
@ginomoujik8488 Жыл бұрын
The problem is Your system + expensive power cable will always be worse than Your system upgraded with the cost of epc at source or amplification :) Thus only relevant when you have the best of everything else, which none does..
@jim5867 ай бұрын
Don’t agree. There is a video on KZfaq explaining why you’re wrong. I have an integrated amp that was £2.5K retail. When I partnered it with a £1.2K power cable it totally transformed and elevated the sound performance of the amp making it sound better than amps costing way more. Watch the video. Sometimes it doesn’t make logical sense, once heard though…
@r423sdex7 ай бұрын
@@jim586 That amp must be crap, if a power cable transformed it. What's the cabling inside the amp.
@larryayres4592 Жыл бұрын
Does the length of the fancy power cable matter? Does it have to go to the wall outlet to get a benefit? It would be interesting to use a short cable from an extension cord to the device to see what it does. It doesn't seem to make logical sense that there is something special about going from the wall outlet to the device, given (as you say) he rest of the electrical grid is connected. I suspect there is an minimum length that somehow provides a benefit.
@705johnnyboy Жыл бұрын
toning down anxiety by spending large amounts on a cable allows the listeners to hear the music and absorb it better,i went the other way ,i was going to spend 300 on a tonearm cable until i discovered canere microphone cable 4 pound a meter its a fantastic musical cable,ive replaced all of my intetconnects with it to ,my system sounds great now,also i replaced my speaker cable back to basic ofc copper instead of silver plated copper its sounds more coherent ....
@705johnnyboy Жыл бұрын
product name is gs-6..
@davidstein912910 ай бұрын
What mains sound filtration/surge suppressor make & model do you recomend?
@Baerchenization Жыл бұрын
In the next video, we will discuss what a power supply does and in the one after that, we revisit power supply cables...
@jamesfarrow6752 Жыл бұрын
This subject, more than any, seems to have the most polarising opinions. My experience is that mains cables do make a difference, although this can be equipment dependent. Before purchasing equipment, peripherals in particular, I always ask a member of the household if they can hear a difference and if so, what the difference is. I never give my opinion in order to avoid potential bias. On the majority of occasions, they hear the same differences. They may use different terminology because they are not into hi-fi but they hear the same thing. I understand some of the scepticism around this subject and can only give my opinion based on what I hear.
@davidstein912910 ай бұрын
Does anybody have any thoughts/opinions about the Audioquest Niagara 300 surge suppressor line conditioner? It does NOT COME with a power cord. Of course, Audioquest recommends using one of their mid to high end cables (The Hurricane pr The Blizzard) with the unit. I have one line conditioner already but need another bank of plugs. I own the Furman Elite 15 Power Factor i. (PFi) To get this same model new will cost approximately half what the Audioquest costs used. The power cord is hard wired on this model Furman. You can't switch out power cords. Audiophiles who prefer Audioquest love the Niagara 3000 with the Hurricane or Blizzard Audioquest Power Cords. I appreciate any information you can provide. If you think the Audioquest Niagara 3000 is a good upgrade over my Furman, which power cable do you recommend? Thanks!
@hugobloemers4425 Жыл бұрын
Take that money for the cable and use it for an other and sensible upgrade. If it then still comes out favorable, comparing the two upgrades, we can talk again.
@engjds Жыл бұрын
Exactly, the weak link is nearly always the speakers, its the main weak point that brings significant improvements
@scottwheeler2679 Жыл бұрын
Why is it that power cables and other like tweaks can’t be heard under double blind conditions?
@Pete.across.the.street Жыл бұрын
they can. What system were you listening to where you doing a double-blind test and couldn't hear the difference?
@scottwheeler2679 Жыл бұрын
@@Pete.across.the.street I haven't done them with power cord myslf. I hav done them with interconnects. What double blind tests were done with power cords that showed a difference? Do you have a link or website where this is documented? As for power cord DBTs that came up with null results you can find them at Audio Science Review.
@Pete.across.the.street Жыл бұрын
@@scottwheeler2679 that's why you haven't heard a difference. You have to actually try it. ASR are quacks, they probably only measured the wrong thing and didn't even listen.
@scottwheeler2679 Жыл бұрын
@@Pete.across.the.street I've sat in on power cord demos. I just personally haven't done a DBT with them. It's funny you would pass such a blanket judgement on an entire group of audiophiles. They did DBTs. You can't do a DBT without listening. Can you point me towards the DBT where a difference was heard between power cords? I have just one other question for you, refering back to your original quote and trusting our senses. Do you think our senses, hearing in particular along with aural memory is complete and infalable?
@Pete.across.the.street Жыл бұрын
@@scottwheeler2679 not a group, just Amir. You have to listen for yourself. My experience is going to be different from others experiences. You were making blanket statements that they don't make a difference without even listening to different cables. Do your own dbt, then tell us your experience and don't assume that's everybody else's experience....One study, by someone with questionable scientific prowess, at best, does not make for facts
@isaacestep332110 ай бұрын
Im trying out better power cables and I like what I hear so far. But they don't really lend themselves to review. With speakers we at least presume there's a good room being used to audition them. Components are mostly designed for cheap cables, synergy between an amp and a specific high quality cable cable doesn't really seem to be a goal that interests these engineers for the most part.
@r423sdex7 ай бұрын
How do you know it's better.
@MrsZambezi Жыл бұрын
Obviously a power cable can't change the performance of anything, and therefore any differences claimed can only be a product of the imagination. Use the one that came with it and stop being so silly!
@chuckmaddison29249 ай бұрын
Power cable... If something can be asserted without evidence, it can also be dismissed without evidence . Cars... people will buy a car ,usually on finance, go home and talk about how good it is. They are only justifying to themselves why they have blown the money.
@Gem-Ex Жыл бұрын
Even HDMI cables are different..
@miseryandwhiskyАй бұрын
I’m not saying it’s not true, I’m not saying it’s snake oil, but I am saying that my hearing wouldn’t be good enough anymore to be able to tell the difference.
@BigNorthumbrian Жыл бұрын
They do make a difference, I’ve used Kimber 4TC and 8TC as power cables for years. I also remove the fuse, and solder straight onto the positive connection.
@markw7997 Жыл бұрын
There's a reason there's a fuse in equipment, it's a weak link if things go wrong......you need to maintain your house insurance for fire damage .
@engjds Жыл бұрын
When the fireman investigates, we know what he will say the cause was), oh dear.
@christopherstorrier5560 Жыл бұрын
If the cable has a groud/drain wire that is connected to mains plugs earth only, not connected at other end ,it will effect lowering the floor noise level if cable is made of decent diameter & good quality OCC OFC...Cardas produce some of the cleanest copper cable buyable & sell to many big cable companies who make their own cables using Cardas's OCC OFC very pure copper cable...not cheap though..shame
@johnpetrakis379 Жыл бұрын
Diameter huh? like maybe the Transatlantic Cable, that would sound better?
@christopherstorrier5560 Жыл бұрын
@@johnpetrakis379 ...your a sceptic...it's worked since electricity was invented...don't you know how to sheild a cable...weird & keep your anger to yourself just because your one of these ...'if it ain't my way it's not true'...does'nt make you right....your wrong...that's how i build cables but of course only you are right eh !.....no
@legrandmaitre7112 Жыл бұрын
I really think it's about time we dismissed these endless "electronic engineers" and their measurements - or rather their narrow-minded opinions. Hifi is about LISTENING to music. No worthwhile Hifi product has ever been successful solely based on its measurements. Without extensive tuning and tweeking, a lot of Hifi would just sound monotonous, dry, unexciting etc etc. The other thing we have to consider is that all of us are different. I haven't got a scientific background, I'm from an arts background. If only the cable deniers could grasp how much more mysterious our lives really are! That much of what we experience in life CAN'T BE MEASURED. Why is a Vermeer painting more beautiful than Frans Hals - same period, same materials, same culture - one is sublime, one is merely amusing. Why is your cat beautiful? Why is the music Mozart so inspiring but the music of Emerson Lake and Palmer just tedious noise? This can't be measured. Some listeners actually really do have more refined, more developed sensory abilities. We're not all neurotypical - nor were many of the great musicians that delight us. Cable deniers are a perfect example of "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".
@davidcross890 Жыл бұрын
Faithful Reproduction means actually getting it right not a stew of distorted messes of stew Most Audiophiles call their stereo system. Sadly, Most of our audio friends are seriously misinformed and intentionally misled regarding how very important extreme quality power matters to whether you have a nice system at 20k to a million dollars plus or a Jawdropping showstopper system of beyond an incredible reproductive realism. Unfortunately, most ALL of even the Supposedly best and most expensive products available are pathetic in their measured and sonic performance in reproducing the source material with absolute faithfulness. I think at some point a MASTER CLASS ON POWER is s to be in order as well as a Public Live KZfaq comparative measured test of ANY and all OF the existing failures of fidelity of the who sorely lack faithfulness of reproduced source against the Real State of the Art of what is not just possible but what has already been accomplished. The comparative measured results show how embarrassingly poor performers most are. This has to change as more and more audio enthusiasts realize they have overpayed dearly for audio bling that lacks the substance of faithful reproduction of REALITY. Best to My Audio Friends.
@mostirreverent Жыл бұрын
Why not just have one good power cable on the power strip
@10sassafras2 ай бұрын
You do know universities have taught marketing students about the psychology of the price/ quality relationship since the middle of last century? The only question is why these scam products are still legal. A fool and his money…
@shreddherring Жыл бұрын
I was very skeptical about power cables for a long time, even though I'd heard differences with other cables. But as time passed I kept on seeing people talk about them, and inevitably my curiosity won. I managed to find a local deal for a selection of supra lorad cables, in which I got two identical cables, with one being a 1.5mm conductor and one being 2.5mm. I tried the smaller one first, with music and tv/films, and whilst some things seemed like they were a little better, there were some things that were worse. Treble was rolled off, soundstage was wider, there was more bass emphasis, and a slight vocal distortion. When I switched to the thicker one, the same things that had changed, were greatly exaggerated. Overall it sounded very, very wrong, and I couldn't listen to it for more than a minute or two. Switching back to the bog standard power cable was an actual physical relief. Well, I didn't just decide to leave it there, because I had to understand what it was that was causing that wrongness; why was just a thicker conductor making everything so strange? Eventually I came across some in depth explanations of the proximity effect, which explained why and how litz cables work, and it started to make some sense. I set about trying to find a power cable that had something in the design to mitigate the proximity effect, but unfortunately I realised that they were very rare, and I was also struggling to find a means of building myself one without having to resort to solid core wire. After a lot of searching I found one cable which I could buy off the shelf, in the form of the qed xt-5. I plugged it into my amp, unsure of what to expect. What I got, was a much more linear frequency response, and a drastic reduction in distortion, with much greater clarity and separation. The bass, which had previously been somewhat diffuse, became a precise point in the centre, losing some presence, but reaching further down. Up until that point, all throughout my life, recorded sound of any kind, be it digital, analogue, music, film, radio, had all sounded fundamentally wrong, and I could only have described it as "the top of the sound has been chopped off", but now the treble was where it ought to be, and extending higher too. This cable actually made things like drums and cymbols sound like I would expect to hear from being at a band practise, and choral arrangements now sounded like I would have expected from being in a choir. It was the second wow moment I have had in this hobby, after my first time hearing a 3-dimensional soundstage. So, I learned that normal stranded cable is literally evil, and unfortunately, because it is cheaper, that is what gets used in every single appliance, because "its good enough". After this I got a second one to plug into my dac, and this time different things about the sound changed, which surprised me. Such as being more detailed; new vocal layers suddenly appearing in familiar albums you've been listening to for 20 years is an excellent surprise. In the case of one track, I was able to hear that the bass line now matched that of the tablature book I had, which I had always assumed had just been written down wrong. Clarity and separation were improved again, along with better imaging. The soundstage was larger in all dimensions, and bass now had more punch. It also seemed like the scale of the effect overall was greater than when I had just plugged the first one into my amp, as though the more of this distortion you remove from the chain, the greater the sum of its parts become. The next step in my journey will be litz interconnects, and I am expecting good things. If you want your system to have a big, highly present bass, with rolled off treble, and that is the sound that you're personally looking for, then go ahead and go for big, chunky stranded cables, because everyone has their preferences and that's all fine and good. But if you happen to have sensitive hearing in the higher frequencies, and you feel bugged because things dont sound or feel quite natural or true to life, like there's something missing, and you just want to hear the music as it is, with nothing added for "tuning" then getting cables that addresse the proximity effect might be the right choice for you
@drjay927 Жыл бұрын
How long did it take to write this book? Geez, less words please
@shreddherring Жыл бұрын
@@drjay927 regular stranded cables are already making your sound bad. Thicker stranded cables make that sound even worse = different sound does not mean better. Litz or braided cables (as in the actual wires in each core are braided) help a lot. Try a QED XT-3 or XT-5 cable, if you want to hear a positive change instead of a negative one. Better?
@drjay927 Жыл бұрын
@@shreddherring much
@larryayres4592 Жыл бұрын
Years ago, before CDs, my local high end HI-FI store was selling fancy speaker cables and I laughed at that. So they said here take a couple sets home and try them. I was amazed. Up till then I was using heavy copper lamp cord. They had this flat braided cable and it sounded terrible on my speakers. Then I tried some large monster cables and they sounded much better than the lamp cord. I realize this is very believable because it is in the signal path, but as engineer, logic was telling me wire is wire. Since then I've replaced all of the cables in the signal path with mogami or some better quality cables and noticeable improvement. I've just ordered a Rega P2 (I'm in the US). Do you think rewiring the tone arm and replacing the phono cables with upgraded wires will yield an improvement or are they pretty good to begin with? I plan on putting an upgraded cartridge on it that I have.
@engjds Жыл бұрын
I bet your lamp was brighter too)
@S8250503 Жыл бұрын
Russ Andrews wrote a book decades ago called, "The Power and the Glory," in which he explains the scientific theory behind his products.
@MrsZambezi Жыл бұрын
Shyster makes money from the scientifically ignorant.
@S8250503 Жыл бұрын
@@MrsZambezi 🤣
@WXSTANG Жыл бұрын
I've been watching a guy "Jays Audio" who is running a 3000watt class a system off his household wiring. He says "it works". Of course it "works" you are trying to pump 8000 watts worth of power through 16 awg cable. Connecting a larger plug is going to reduce the stress on the connections and in that 6ft bandaiding against voltage drop. For context, a class A 1000watt amp needs 4000watts because they are 25% efficient. The average home plug can provide 2400watts (120V @ 20amps). Ummm... PROBLEM HERE!!!!!!!! They really need separate 10AWG wires in the walls, to two separate phases, to power two monoblocks. First fix the main problem. The other issue is you have these companies selling these things that are CLUELESS as to how their customers are powering them. lol ULTRA HIGH END HIFI. You would probably see a better gain upgrading to 10awg in the house, and running separate feeds to each amp. You think a power cable is going to make any perceivable difference in a class D chinese amp like an SMSL drawing 50 watts? HIGHLY doubtful. But if you are running 8K watts from two monoblocks, you might want to fix the main problem first. Nobody running the average AVR is going to see any benefit, and is a waste of money. Snake oil. Have to take everything in context.
@flex-cx9bi Жыл бұрын
Yes, a power cord actually have the same effect when using a class D amp or a 8kW monoblock. The 8kW power amps do NOT draw that continously from the outlet. If the speaker are the same and the sound level the same both amplifiers draw EXACTLY the same amount of power from the outlet dynamically. You can absolutely hear a difference in how well a class D amp and a 8kW power amp with an enormous power supply handle dynamic signals. If you change conductor in the groundplane you can hear the difference too, because different conductors have different current capabilities. Do not forget what's happening in ground lines. Once you understand that ground planes, ground conductors have just as big (actually bigger) effect of the sound than a signal conductor have it's easier to understand that every single piece of components or conductor have a more or less audible effect on what we hear from the loudspeaker. Even different transformers and diodes have a effect on the sound. Power cables are no different. Change from solid core to stranded cables in the walls between circuit breaker and outlet also have an effect and an audible difference. Have you ever been thinking about harmonic distortion in the ground plane under dynamic conditions when playing music with your audio system? Probably not... That's what a EMC technichian look at when designing filters for EMC noise in our power lines. Different gauges and configurations of conductors handle harmonics differently. Different gauges also will have a different effect and make a audible difference. Type of contuctor too. So say what you want about Jay, but he is right and you are wrong. Neighter of you understand why.
@richardsinger01 Жыл бұрын
@@flex-cx9bi class A would draw max power continuously wouldn’t it?
@richardsinger01 Жыл бұрын
If you overload the outlet like that won’t the circuit breaker trip?
@flex-cx9bi Жыл бұрын
@@richardsinger01 Yes it would. Thats why Jay installed a 3 phase outlet for his Boulder 3050.
@engjds Жыл бұрын
Class A is 50% efficient, or just a little under that to be more exact.
@tubefreeeasy Жыл бұрын
All I have to say to deniers, enjoy your stock cables.
@engjds Жыл бұрын
I will, and continue laughing at those wasting money.
@tubefreeeasy Жыл бұрын
@@engjds Who are those wasting money? The people that optimize their systems or those that continue to use stock and have their systems sound stock. I can get outstanding silver-plated wires for $20. Is that a waste?
@engjds Жыл бұрын
@@tubefreeeasy Yes it probably is a waste, because you can buy lower resistance lower awg cable for much less, resistance is the only parameter that matters and that only matters up to a point. Inductance and capacitance are so low its a joke to say they can make any kind of difference. Did you know even many high end speakers have low ohmage series resistors in their crossovers? 2 or 3 ohms is not uncommon, and you guys are squabbling of uR's it really is a joke.
@tubefreeeasy Жыл бұрын
@@engjds I appreciate the sound I get. I don’t know how I can get it better. I previously wasted my money on copper cables that are ‘dirtier’ and offers no transparency in tone compared to my silver-plated and pure silver wires. Do you even try buying silver-plated wires? They’re cheap on eBay. You keep the sound you get with your cheap wires. I hope you’ll appreciate the sound you get. I’ll continue to enjoy the sound I get. I just wonder if cable deniers ever have enough on a credit card to venture into cables?
@engjds Жыл бұрын
@@tubefreeeasy Study Ohms law, power equations, and awg resistance tables and combine that with knowing you cannot hear any subjective difference over 100db (proved in audio lab listening tests), all that study will not take you more than 1 hour, and you also will see its really impossible to tell a few uR improvement in resistance over that 2m or so run compared with a 4R/8R load. Sure I have heard different cables, in hifi shops, but I dont feel the need to waste money on cable as long as I use low awg cable thats overspeced with decent gold plated connectors to stop oxidisation. I get why you think you might hear a difference, hell my hifi sounds different in the morning compared with night, such things as temperature, humidity can change the way sound waves interact but the way you perceive sound is a science all on its own, I was listening to my speakers connected out of phase for 3 week and thought it sounded good till I put them the right way). TBH the main way ANYONE can make the most significant upgrade in their hifi is changing the speakers, its almost always the bottleneck, sources and amplification is pretty good now even on medium quality components, but speakers are still using tech from the 70's with slightly better materials. Least every significant upgrade I have has been with a new pair of speakers. Unless you are running 100k speakers there I think you are kidding yourself they sound different.