It's such a shame he feels like he needs to do that >.

Another telltale sign of bad writing is if people have divided opinions that have no in-betweens that provoke random Internet wars. In regards to what you said, though, there's a thing called "show, don't tell" and if what you're showing is so bad that you have to directly tell people, then that's bad writing. There's also "actions speak louder than words", which can be yet another indicator of bad writing if what you're showing contradicts what you're telling the audience, or if blatant hypocrisy can be seen in either the writing or the words of the creators.

Hehe I'm glad you liked that addition. I figured Adrien deserved a confidant as well x33

how is it brilliant when you obviously know that she is going to tell the whole world which puts him and other people at risk

@@borisspivak6998 Because of it's high risk reward!!! Imagine it, if done well, this Chloe's last chance to being a better person and a better friend. If Chloe fails and acts as she has done in the past, Adrian is doomed, he loses his Miraculous, his father probably beats him up and steals Plagg, and the show will have a bad end. BUT... If Chloe becomes someone better, becomes the Chloe Adrian sees her as... she will become the greatest confidant the world has ever seen. Adrian needs to sneak out of a situation, Chloe will be THE BEST distraction the world has ever seen. If Adrian needs her, she's coming to his house NOW and talking to him. If he needs help, she will move all of Paris around to make it happen. And while she is helping Adrian... she has to learn what it means to help others. All of season 2 and even moments in season three, showed Chloe growing into a role of a hero (or at least antihero) and learning what it meant to help people. If she hit rock bottom and was about to lose it all...and this was her last chance to be better and she actually took it, imagine the change that she would go through. Imagine how she could help Adrian...imagine her and him reminiscing over okd times, flashbacks to their childhood and realizing...they havn't been this close in years. Chloe realizing that she does not just want to be a hero to be acknowledged by her mom...but because she wants to help people. The change that could happen for her and Adrian is so amazing to think about, that it's hard to even think about. In this dire state, this will either work, or it will lead to their doom. There is no half way, there isn't a third option, it's do or die.

@@ChasehaWing First, you spelled Adrien's name incorrectly, and second, Chloe cannot be a better person now because of the path the writers have chosen to take. You can theorize all you want but at the end of the day, the writers aren't going to do anything with her and as of right now, she cannot be redeemed. I would be really glad if she got rewritten out of the show since she serves no purpose.

@@borisspivak6998 They had their chance to write her out at season 3. Literally. She said she was going to America with her mom and if they had gone that path, everyone would be disappointed (forever) but it would have been LEAGUES better than what they are currently going with. If she serves no point, and if she's not getting a redemption OR a villian arc, then she is literally taking up space that could have gone to the other 18 characters in the show. Or at least could have gone to the best villian in the show: Lila. (Not joking. She is the absolute BEST villian). Also this is not about what they'll do in canon, it's about what could have been done. What the potential could have been had they gone this route. It's a ballsy move. More so then anything in the show has done up till this point (season 4.) And that's why I love the idea.

YUP. The fanfiction provides the satisfaction and development that the show either doesn't deliver or takes too long to deliver on. Chloe's character is such a missed opportunity. I hope they don't waste it >.

Fr and zoe can go back whever she came from 😍

I agree! Having both villains come out with different outcome based off of life choices would have been great! And if they intended to never reform Chloe, they should have never made her sympathetic or show that she's self aware and have a good side. =/

@@TheArtisticAloubell That’s why I like stories where they pit a reformed villain against the hate sink villain to make it all the more satisfying for the before the villain to complete his or her arc

She was also in Penalteam... But, that episode is a dumpster fire.

@@Silver-Kaitou what’s that?

Right? The show has too many characters but I feel that forcing Chloe to be a pure Villain is a bit crowded tbh. It deluded the villains's screentime for Chloe. I think overall, if Thomas hated Chloe so much, he should have just written her out of the show.. like move away permanently.

1000% agreed. I also agree about Chloe. If she becomes good, I want her to stay spicy to break up the monotony of all of the sugary sweet characters. X3

It would also be an interesting storyline. Zoe has Marinette's unrequited trust but betrays her while Chloe, who Marinette never trusted, was trying to be better without the support.

Preach! Btw I’m curious are you going to do a video that involves your take on Zoe?

@@indiraturner5506 ofc! In the further future.

She's certainly more interesting than Marinette lol ...actually, the more I think about it, you're right XD ALSO! I'm new to the MLB analysis community and I see you're one of the top ones! Thanks for stopping by my neck of the woods X3 I appreciate it! ^0^

@@TheArtisticAloubell no problem, dude 😁 Also, thanks for the recognition!

@@eyelove_owlcity Can you how Zoè became a wasted character. She had so much opportunity, BUT WHAT DOES THOMAS DO?? SAY IT WITH ME EVERYONE!!

I like to remain optimistic X'D The show will be around for a few more seasons, there's a chance he'll either change his mind, reveal he was joking, or someone else on the team will take over and realize Chloe's arc needs a satisfying conclusion. If he said that, though, then that wasn't cool =( Even if he sincerely doesn't like Chloe, he should be a bit more civil than that.

@@TheArtisticAloubell maybe he is lying?

@@snivygreen2216 In this situation, I do hope that's the case!

He’s a grown man calling a 15 year old girl irredeemable 🤡

@@TheArtisticAloubell Kinda late but I feel like that's something that one shouldn't joke about (comparing fans to actual abusers)

OHHHH. Oh that hurts. Poor Chloe got snuffed because Marinette had terrible priorities D'X I mean, yeah, Chloe could have handled it better, for sure, but Mari definitely had a part to plan in this. Thank you for the clarification!

and Marisue.... is responsible for Volpina/Chamaleon... and Reflectdoll...

@@juan_jose_bueno_velasquez oh wow haha

But the Show did call her out on it… or Rather Marinette was the one who called herself out. She had the mental breakdown about it right before the second half of the season 3 finale. She knew that it was her fault that all of that happened

@@RayCeaAlm And then she's completely fine for the next four episodes (and even then, the breakdown she has at the end of E3 doesn't pertain to the incident) _and_ she gets made the guardian. Not to mention, iirc, S4 has yet to bring up the fact that Mari is largely at fault for the Miracle Queen incident but it's brought up and drilled in the Chloe messed up in the finale.

D'X That makes me so sad. It's so disappointing.

yes...

It wasn't even written good...

And she's _still_ not a character. Just a host for the Bee miraculous.

You are right, because thomasastruc is a heartless draftsman. And it must be punished!

Yup yup! Makes sense!

@@TheArtisticAloubell I can't believe you actually replied to my comment considering it's an old video. I'm subscribing!

@@10Caramella 😁 Of course! I like to reply back when I'm able x3 Thank you! ❤️💕

I always felt Zoe was out of place. She is a wasp, wasps destroy and eat bees. Her sweet attitude feels fake.

​@@goldentriforce29She is wasp and they steel bee's Honey so this Means Wasp=Zoe,Bee=Chloe and Honey=Bee Miraculous or Pollen

Thank you for sharing your experience =) And thank you for showing an example of someone changing for the better. Such things definitely happen in real life and I think it would be an excellent lesson for children to show that some people, with hard work and people giving them a chance, CAN change. Chloe could be a shining example of that. I sincerely hope that the writers change their mind about her and that Astruc stops being pessimistic. We'll see what happens with Chloe! I hope she gets more support ^_^ Thank you for your thoughtful comment~!

tnx fo sharing..You have big help for these people.

If I can ask... what type of alter was he? Was he a persecutor? Did his role in the system also change along with his attitude towards you and your bf?

@@lpsfankanr1 I think he hasn't changed a lot in the system, he's I think a persecutor still He's not aggressive of course but he still gets defensive easily and he kinda closes himself the moment he misunderstands something (Which is very frequent) He's working on it tho, but sometimes it feels like walking on egg shells

Wow. That was an amazing story

Thank you

@@TheArtisticAloubell So sorry for the late response (didnt get this notification) but I returned to this video to rewatch this theory and hear the rewrite again -which i still absolutely adore! Yes i agree with you that having Lila and Chloe both be irredeemable and used for helping Hawkmoth is ridiculous - especially since Felix seems to be a great choice to fill the role instead of Chloe. Felix could be what Adrien could've been when losing a family member just like you said with Chloe and Lila. Having different perspective and outcomes would fit this season. They already kind of did it with the episode Truth and Lie. Also YES!!! Adrien needs more development and focus like come on !

Hi hi! Thank you so much for taking the time to watch my video and comment! I really appreciate it! ❤ Now regarding your comment: you're right. Astruc should be held responsible for both hos tweets and the implications within the show. Impressionable teens and kids probably follow him and definitely watch his product, so he shouldn't say hurtful things so casually. I guess what I meant by him having the freedom to do what he wants with his characters, I just meant that physically, and technically, he is allowed to do whatever he wants cuz he is in charge. But yes, he 1000% shouldn't use that power to promote that bad message. Thanks again for commenting! 💐❤

@@TheArtisticAloubell He also shouldn't have made it seem like Mari's creepy stalking was completely okay, and the fact that she could do anything without any real consequences. i think the show has great potential but in my opinion, there are a lot of things that need to be fixed. i also want to see more of Kagami.

Zoe feels SUPER out of place, for sure. And it's super sad he's projecting his disdain towards his childhood bully onto Chloe. The thing is, I know he never intended for Chloe to get a character arc. I heard Astruc was away for season 2 and the remaining writers at ZAG decided to give her a redemption arc, but when Astruc got back, he disapproved of this change and then undid it. Idk how true this is, but that's what I heard.

@@TheArtisticAloubell Honestly that makes so much more sense if he was away for it, I'd always wondered why he'd okay'd it if he was only going to throw a fit about it in the next season.

you want character destruction for the benefit of Thomas astruc's ego? watch season 5 episode 20 marinette literally vomits thomas lyrics on twitter in this episode my GOD it was awkward! and from the moment the protagonist herself has given up, it's game over for Chloé!

@@phaoragenesisdiraskreia8877 Unless she was literally vomiting up words, it should be figuratively.

​@@TheArtisticAloubelland this is why i hate him if i have Charthers who i base off of My Bullies i will give them a Chance to be better people only if they get that chance or not at all

I agree with everything you said X3 Regarding Adrien, even if the writers gave him equal episodes to Marinette so that they could both share their perspective and spotlight, then that would be better than focusing on Marinette all the time. The title has both of their names in it, but Marinette gets most of the attention and respect in-universe. And as for Zoe, I REALLY hope there ends up being a twist about her and that she is secretly a nasty person. Adding another super duper nice person to the cast is just redundant >.< Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment and for watching!

@@TheArtisticAloubell I kinda doubt it since Thomas expressed such dislike towards Chloe since the get go and if there is a twist, it would mean that the entire cast was forced to act so incredibly out of character JUST for a twist. I mean, I'm not trying to be a downer but it's not something I would put too much hope behind but it would be nice to see some character development because another season of s1 attitude Chloe comes off as desperate.

@@SuperCosmicMutantSquid Yeah, I see what you mean. I know the likeliness of Chloe finishing her redemption arc is low, but I'll still hope for it. It's like what they say: expect for the worse, but hope for the best!

👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

I kind of see that. Marinette is hypocritical. The show doesn’t address abuse.

Yes, I completely agree. Adrien's story could easily tie into Chloe's redemption. Give them both more development and screen time. That would be the best option (and add Zoe in there as well). Thank you so much for watching and for your thoughtful comment! ^_^

I actually like what they did..chloe only wanted to be a hero so she could be liked by everyone...by ladybug....and when lady started being shitty to her...it was just a matter of time before she sided with hawk moth...... and now is the perfect time to give her a redemption arch....sadly they dont want to

@@creativeink4407 You know what? I agree with that. It's fine that she took a few steps backwards as long as she can progress forward again and get past her demons. Unfortunately, idk if they'll do that, but I'm still hopeful!

@@TheArtisticAloubell thank you for seeing it

@@creativeink4407 I agree, but that only happened because they made it happen. It was so random, like many other things in the show, it felt like the other episodes where wasted as we didn't advance the story much. :(

Thank you so much for the meaningful response! Everything you said is completely spot on

@@TheArtisticAloubell Thanks, homie! Great video, by the way, and your rewrite was quite good, honestly.

@@macaroniwhistlefox8897 Thank you

That makes sense to a certain degree. But if Astruc is so involved with the show and its writing, you'd think he'd be aware of what happens when you make someone sympathetic and actively have them try to be better. Idk how it was such a surprise that people would be on board for development. It's kind of weird...unless he isn't as involved in the story as we thought he was? Idk...I still hope they plan on doing something with Chloe (something good, I mean).

@@TheArtisticAloubell apparently he wasn't involved for season 2 for some reason. Some other guy was in charge. He decided to give chole a redemption arch to show kids that people change. But Thomas found out and was obviously unhappy. I think that guy got fired because I never saw his name in the credit in season 3.

@@angelwatt1582 OHHHH Okay. That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. Still the smarter thing to do would have been to just go with where the story was going, but c'est la vie, I guess. Still hoping he changes his mind. X(

@@angelwatt1582 oh no. I feel so sorry for that guy. Thomas really is immature. Chloe is a 14 Year old fictional character, astruc.😒 You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the real reason why Thomas was so in on making Chloe as awful as possible, was to make everyone like Marinette again.

Honestly it wasn't an accident. Sebastian Thibaudeau, was the one in charge of writing season 2. He and Jeremy Zag were planning on redeeming Chloe.

lol When I say that Instagram has a LOT of spoilers, I mean it XD Granted, the algorithm just thinks I'm a fan now and shows me MLB stuff daily. XD Also, thank you! I'm glad you liked it! ^0^

@@TheArtisticAloubell Yeah. It's great thst you know stuff because of spoilers, but you should still watch some of the show to understand things better and avoid some mistakes. You said in this video that you didn't know why Ladybug initially stopped coming to Chloe to help her with akuma battles. The reason she did that is because she was afraid of Hawkmoth harming Chloe and her family since Chloe revealed her identity at the beginning of Queen Wasp. Rather than telling Chloe immediately that this was the reason she was not using her for battles, Marinette chose to avoid the conversation instead by ignoring Chloe's offers. Just watch season 2 at least id you are going to do any future episodes, so you get some context on some things. This makes you a better authority on the subject if you actually watch the series even if there is spoilers available on Instagram. They don't always give context on everything you need to know that makes something make sense. You have to see the episodes to get the full scope.

@@cartooncottage2024 Thank you for filling in my missing gap of knowledge! Yay! That's a fair comment. I know the smart thing would be to actually watch the show, but I really can't bring myself to. I'm a highly visual person and the show's art style really bothers me. Plus I don't really want to deal with the frustrations the show has such as the reveal taking forever, the love square existing, among other things. You're totally right though that the best thing to do would be to watch at least some of the show for context. I'm going to generally limit the amount of Miraculous videos I post due to my lack of knowledge. I do have a couple more ideas for videos, but it'll be general stuff that I don't thin requires too much knowledge of the show such as comments on the superhero costumes, general comments about relationships, and a small note I have about how Adrien and Marinette became superheroes. So...3 more videos. Hopefully the topics will be so general that my ignorance isn't apparent, but...I hope you understand ^^" I know it's stubborn of me to not want to watch the show, but I really don't want to feel like I'm forced to watch something I don't want to watch. Hopefully you understand ^^ And if that means you don't want to watch my videos, I'll completely understand that too with no hard feelings. ^_^ I'm sorry if I disappointed you at all... I appreciate you watching and for your thoughtful comment

Agreed X(

You're right, but thomasastruc unjustly took it away from him because he's a heartless artist. And it must be punished!

Yeah but the creator don't like her so he took all of her development away

Yup, just a lot of missed opportunities and poor choices made in there DX

Zoe most likely was created in response to his Twitter feud as a way to get back at fans.

I too hope that Zoe is their attempt to get through to Chloe and help her reform! Let's see what happens! Thank you

Zoe won't help Chloe. Even if that could be a good idea first if Chloe becomes a good person again is ironic. Second, knowing how are the writters Zoe will be only her replacement. Don't wait something good of miraculous

@@alexanderuseda4847 Sadness DX Hopefully Astruc will change his mind!

@@TheArtisticAloubell I don't think so. There's not a development in Zoe as a character and being Vesperia is nah. Astruc hates Chloe and that's all, we can't do nothing. Zoe is going to be a replacement only

@@alexanderuseda4847 DX

Lion King (1994) is my favorite movie and Rafiki's quote is my favorite X333 It's honestly baffling what little faith he has in his own character. It should be a good thing that someone develops like that, but I guess it might be disrupting his vision of the show??? Idk. It's hard to know what he's thinking. And yeah, I'd be so much finer with Zoe if her flaws were apparent and if she held literally any other Miraculous AND if she participates in Chloe's redemption. Otherwise...I don't like her purpose (unless she's a villain, in which case, yes please lol)

See? if the Zoe's character was like this, I would have already liked her.

@@TheArtisticAloubell honestly, your thoughts are my thoughts about Zoe. 😂

@@miss_chelles1338 **HIGH FIVE**

Oh I totally get you. Yeah, I can see what you mean about her just being an obstacle. I think if the writers didn't intend for her to be an actual character, they shouldn't have made her sympathetic and give her a backstory as well as they shouldn't have written her trying to be better. If they intended for her to just be a bully trope, then they failed a bit...which is a shame. I'm still hoping this is one huge troll and they do plan on redeeming her. I'm glad you liked the re-write

This comment made me say "ooohhhh!" OUT LOUD, because I don't think you could be anymore correct. you freaking hit the nail on the head. That is so true about her character.

Honestly, you are so right.

A lot of characters in this show serve as a plot device to move the story along and het the villain of the week akumatized.

That is quite similar! That would be a major loss for Chloe if that happened, so I think if the writers ever decide to give her self awareness back, her running away could be a canon possibility. Also, thank you ❤❤❤

Your ideas are SUPER good regarding Zoe. She had no build up whatsoever (almost like she wasn't thought about/created until now 👀) She needs more development to make her feel like she deserves to be here cuz right now, her only purpose is to spite Chloe and that's annoying. The show better do SOMETHING with her or she will be totally unjustified.

She is a less likeable version of Rose literally

I personally prefer Zoe to be a very nice girl, far more different from her step-family. But like you said, she needs more characterization and flaws to make her a relatable character. She’s nice and kind towards many, but she has major flaws to overcome. For my idea of her flaw, it would be inferiority complex due to being a result of a cheating affair, having low esteem issues with herself, believing Chloé had a better live than she did. This would make her story far more complex and her relationship with Chloé more realistic.

there are bullies who beat someone up until they have several bones broken for NO REASON. agree with the rest of what you said but just because your experience with bullying wasn't as extreme doesn't mean other innocent victims' experiences aren't.

Thank you❤️

YES

That would actually be a really cool dynamic! I like that! ^_^

HEAVY agree. And I didn't even consider Chloe as being someone who could help Lila change--that's a cool idea!

@@TheArtisticAloubell Thanks! And yeah, I found it interesting how both characters have issues with their mom and how they could work together to improve on themselves

i'm sorry but just because someone got emotionally neglected their whole life does not excuse or dismiss their present actions in any way. chloe was racist to marinette's culture multiple times and didn't even get called out for it. on the other hand, when marinette makes mistakes the show DOES call her out and she learns from them. my biggest problem with chloe is that whenever she does something problematic and hurtful, the show doesn't make her face any consequences or take responsibility to fix things she had done. this shows to kids that whatever she does is considered "normal" or "okay" when it's far from that. i just wanted to get that out of the way so you can understand where i'm coming from.

@@borisspivak6998 Uh, yeah. I do agree. I never meant that her actions are excusable in any way. Abuse never excuses bad behavior. The show definitely needs to hold Chloe accountable as well and the racism Chloe has really needs to be addressed for sure. The show does call Marinette out sometimes, but also needs to call her out on her stalkerish behavior too and completely misses the mark on that too. In general, the show doesn’t hold their characters responsible for their actions very well and if Chloe is to be redeemed, she needs to own up to those mistakes. There is potential for her to grow and learn and any person who was abused and did bad things in real life can become good people while owning up to their bad behavior as well. I just want the show to be nuanced enough to have these characters own up to their horrible behavior and grow to be better people.

@@justradiclesandco Marinette, in season 4, did admit her behavior in season 3 and that's why the writers toned down her crush to a minimum where they don't show her obsessing over him and that is character development. I, however, have no hope for Chloe in the slightest and she's even worse now. They already made her the main villain in the season 3 finale, so it's better if they just rewrote her out of the show because she serves no specific role.

Yeah, it's really unclear how old Zoe is. Is she the younger sister or the older one? I imagine she's the little sister, but by how much? 9 months? A year? I suppose its possible, but I feel like they tried to keep them too close in age specifically to fulfill Chloe's role. I think making Zoe the older sister by like 2 years would have made more sense. I was trying to mull over in my head why Zoe was so miserable back in New York. I mean, she has a nice girl personality, but people bullied her when she showed her "true self." I eventually came to the conclusion that all of her peers in New York are spoiled snobs who are all terrible to each other and in order to fit in, Zoe pretended to be awful too. But when she decided to stop and show her true "nice" self, she got bullied because she was perceived as weak. Idk if thats what the show was implying, but that's the only thing I can come up with. Did Zoe provide any details as to why she was bullied for being her "true self" or what the kids back home were like?

@@TheArtisticAloubell I rewatch the episode Zoe said she was at a boarding school probably a rich kids boarding school where everyone has the typical "Chloe personality" maybe ?

@@angryboi300 That would make sense with my theory, then.

Bro, i almost forgot about that. 😵😂

If Chloe became a good guy, she could be a different kind of nice. Whereas the good characters now are all similarly nice, so their personalities blend together a bit, Chloe could be a bit spicy and sarcastic, but still ultimately a good person. I like the idea of the dynamic of the good guys shifting. It really is a shame if the writers (mostly Astruc) truly are done with her character =( I guess we'll see what happens! Thank you for watching and commenting! ^_^

how is she the most "human" when she's a horrible person and doesn't even take responsibility for her actions? she's a selfish snobby, wanna-be brat who had no redemption arc in season 2. now, i'm not saying she wasn't redeemable, i am simply saying that throughout season 2, chloe showed no true redeemping qualities other than a few episodes here and there but then she just goes back to her usual self even after season 2 which means it wasn't any sort of arc whatsoever.

@@borisspivak6998 Her mother is a horrible person, how can she not remember her daughter's name all the time? Of course Chloè has made many mistakes and is full of flaws but that's why I call her more human than other characters on the show, honestly I'm sorry that despite her potential she was ruined by the writers in season 4.

@@lorecava3883 I completely lost hope for her in season 3 so idek why chloe stans still think she's gonna get a redemption when she didn't even have one in season 2. The thing about a character, even a villain, is that they always have flaws and make mistakes. BUT, just because one person has those qualities doesn't mean you should think that everyone else doesn't have any. Marinette has made a bunch of wrong decisions and she DOES have flaws. (this is for the ppl that are calling her a mary-sue). But her actions, are nowhere near as bad as Chloe's and Chloe herself doesn't even get called out for it :/

@@borisspivak6998 we have to thank Astruc for having ruined Chloè! fortunately season 2 seems not to have been directed by him. As villain Chloè is not interesting, Lila is more suitable for that role.

There's still 3 seasons left of the show. Hopefully somewhere in there he decides to reform her! >.

I would love that ^0^ Thank you so much for watching and commenting!

@@TheArtisticAloubell Your welcome, always like getting new perspectives on Miraculous and other things :)

You can watch fan comic that made by Matt-cave on tumblr. Although the timeline was after queen banana but he was more focusing on chloe and zoe. In his fan comic, chloe was acting normally like ordinary teenagers unlike this shitshow made her like overreacting bully gag characters.

@@hangezoe7472 Thanks I'll give it a watch

Thank you so much for joining me on this journey .

LOL I love being the crazy lady who reviews MLB without watching the show XD

@@TheArtisticAloubell youre doing yourself a favor by absorbing plot events by ig and fandom i promise

@@pandoratheexplorer8211 You're not the only one to say that XD

Aww thank you! I'm so grateful that you like my rewrite x3 Considering the show still has some seasons left, there's a chance Chloe could still get her redemption arc. So hopefully something good happens for her soon!

I've definitely heard of Astruc's rude behavior before. As I havent interacted directly with him myself and haven't seen the full circumstances and contexts under which he sends out the rude tweets, I still don't want to make assumptions about him or have people attack him. Even if he is 1000% in the wrong, which he very well might be. It's definitely one thing if he just wants to block the haters and harassers, but if someone is giving respectable, legitimate criticism, it's something that all artists and creators need, or else we won't grow. It is my hope that he does learn from his mistakes eventually so that he can write something of really high quality. But yeah, I definitely, at least, have to call him out on his flawed thinking about Chloe and people like Chloe and how poorly he's treating her and her situation. As a writer, it isn't cool to ignore her development, and as a person, it's not cool to just say that this 14/15 year old with problems has no chance of redemption. It just rubs me SO the wrong way. I know he's the head writer, but I'm really hoping the other writers/staff convinced him that Chloe should have a chance to be redeemed and that they have something planned for her.

Well, according to some stuff I've seen online, but haven't yet made an effort to corroborate, the reason Chloe got the Bee Miraculous in the first place was because some higher-ups wanted her to be a hero. Apparently, Thomas didn't like that, as he then went on to create a "totally intended from the start Fake-Out" with Chloe being a hero, culminating in Miracle Queen. As much as I disliked the reasoning behind it, it could've been a masterstroke. Him making Chloe's Redemption a fake-out could've been an incredible "Take That!" against those who wanted to control his creative choices and decisions, alongside the other writers and directors, but it was handled sloppily, creating some build-up into Chloe's character and her sympathetic traits, but routinely dropping the ball and having Chloe get the short-end of the stick, and Astruc was somehow surprised that fans weren't happy about what he did. While Chloe's heaviest haters were probably elated, it was honestly just some bad writing to me. What's worse is how often Thomas makes people act out of character or ignores his own show's canon for the sake of the plot, such as in the latest season where, after the mess that was Miracle Queen, every one of the Temp-Holders that Ladybug calls upon has had their identities exposed to Hawkmoth, the very thing that made Marinette decide not to give Chloe back the Bee Miraculous in the first place, yet she still continues to call upon them, with Hawkmoth actively spying on them to boot! Another big issue is how self-contradictory, and in some cases flatout hypocritical, Thomas can be about the show and the characters. He has gone on record stating that the show isn't very deep and that people are reading too much into it, but he has also gloated about how deep and inclusive the show is, and how their are deeper reasons behind for certain character's portrayal and existence. He REALLY likes using the deeper meaning excuse for Chloe, as he's actually stated to people who question why, exactly, Chloe is incapable of change, and he has replied at least on one occasion that the person didn't "understand what Chloe represents." Or how when people bring up Chloe's personal life and how bad it is, he crudely deflects to how rich she is and how she can buy whatever she wants, whenever she wants, as if that's all the justification he needs for her being a B!ct# and why she is incapable of change, allegedly. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't, but if you want to get some context as to what Thomas is like online, and get some empirical evidence about some of the things I've mentioned, you should check out the blog named ImmaturityOfThomasAstruc on Tumblr, as it regularly uses Screenshots of Thomas' social media as visual citations for Thomas' behavior, so people can't just brush the blog off as a salt blog that doesn't know what it's talking about. Thanks for your time!

@@kylemorgan2301 Dang =/ It's a shame that things went/go down that way. But something that definitely does bug me how Marinette was so concerned about Hawkmoth knowing the other hero's identities and yet she is still giving the miraculous to the same people whose identities were already revealed. If Astruc wanted to stay consistent, we would have an entire new cast of heroes with the exception of the two leads. It's a shame he's not catching onto the benefits of character development or...even following what he wrote =/ Thank you for all of the useful info!

Yay another Chloe fan! ^0^

It's all thomasastruc's fault.

RIGHT?! I'm really hoping that the writers have some self-awareness and realize that everyone who isn't deemed a "bad guy" has the same sugary-sweet personality, just in different flavors lol They have to be aware of that, right? So adding another uber sweet character like Zoe is just redundant and boring. Hopefully she has some edge to her! Also, thank you! I'm glad you like my version of her character arc, although I know various fanfictions have done an amazing job in giving her an awesome arc as well. If only the show did that too :'D I seriously hope Astruc is trolling about her, otherwise its such a waste of a character DX From what I've heard, you're right. The show/writers favor Marinette too much and don't allow others to shine. Especially Adrien who is arguably more interesting than Marinette and he's had like...what...1 or 2 episodes from his POV? Hopefully things in the show get better sonn! Thank you so much for watching and commenting!

Fellow Starlight fan! Hurrah! ^0^

Thank you! I'm glad it was entertaining X3

I pray you're doing better nowadays!

The whole Chloe situation really makes me sad and disappointed 😭 I really hope the writers (Astruc) come around with her in the upcoming seasons x'(

@@TheArtisticAloubell I don't adore Chloe, but there's no denying she has potential that's demanding to be fulfilled and I wish that I would have the opportunity to adore her one day. I think it's interesting that the reason he wants her to remain evil is that she is based off of his childhood bully. Writing and art are like therapy for many people, and I think the way astruc treats the show clearly shows that he has some issues, by which I mean a lot of issues, that he doesn't want to confront. I don't want to unpack his basis for creating Marinette don't make me.

@@Fairygoblet Rather than me adoring Chloe, its more like I adore her potential. Like I said in my video, I love reformed villains and she had the chance to be one (and technically still has a chance if Astruc allows the writing of the show to be fair/make sense). I can definitely understand him projecting his issues into the show. I wouldn't be so upset about the situation had the writers decided to not give her character development and have her actively try to be better. Had they just kept her as the stereotypical mean girl at school, I wouldn't care. But since they did do that and made us sympathize and root for her, it didn't make sense for Astruc to just ignore all of it and take it back. I get that the writers "messed" with his vision while he was off for season 2, but unfortunately, there's not much you can do about that. The best course of action he should have taken would have been to roll with it and accept that this is how the story is now. As a writer, I know that stories can change from your initial vision of it. It's part of the process and part of the fun because you don't 100% know how the end product will end up. But because Astruc was so adamant on his vision staying in tact, he had to retcon Chloe's development and that's not okay. And even worse, saying that she is irredeemable is not a good message =/ Sorry...i didn't mean to go on a rant. If all of this is the result of Astruc having some pent up issues, I truly pray for him that they get worked out and he finds peace. I just hope he works through them in a healthier way and spread a good message.

@@TheArtisticAloubell holy cow he was off for season 2? That explains a lot actually. The infighting in the writers room thing was just a theory I didn't know so much backed it up. As a writer I find that I have the easiest time when I like all my characters, even when I wouldnt I'm real life. It makes everything flow more organically when you see them impartially. I personally think there's an aspect of wish fulfillment in a lot of professional media and it's okay as long as the author keeps tabs on it. Some people don't know how to exercise restraint for the sake of a good story. Not looking forward to ephemeral but I'm hoping we'll at least get some good lore out of it that Carries over to the rest of the show, like with cat Blanc.

@@Fairygoblet I don't know for 100% certain, but I heard that Astruc was sick during the production of season 2 and couldn't oversee much (if not any) of it. That's when the writers that were left (presumably) began working on Chloe's character development. But when Astruc came back, he didn't like what had happened, and so the reversing of her development began instead of him just rolling with it. But again, that's just what I heard. Either way, the current situation is a big shame and I do hope for good things to come for both Astruc and the show.

Thank you ❤️

Oooo! A wolf! that would be cool. I only made her a fish in my edit cuz I realized they had no aquatic animals for kwamis (I know cat and ladybug have aquatic forms, but there is no legit aquatic animal). But a wolf would be super cool especially if Zoe does end up being bad X3

@@TheArtisticAloubell omg yes fish kwamis sound cool :D also the edit was amazing very creative style an true sense we dont really have fish and wolf kwamis in the show it would match pretty well

@@arcticwolflover263 haha my edit really isn't that good. I was just trying to get the point across lol. But I'm glad you liked it! Maybe they'll add new kwamis in the future! A random eagle showed up during the New York special, so maybe we'll have a fish or wolf sometime too!

A butterfly! Because from what I know about biology, although they may look majestic and beautiful, some butterflys have an disturbing diet of feeding themselves of poo, sweat,tears,blood and even full blow rotting corpses, so I guess it would be a good metaphor for Zoe's true nature of latching herself on people's good side! (cough cough, marinette)

@@rockhistoria2537 That would be neat! Although...aren't they going to introduce a hero with a butterfly miraculous in the future? Won't the hero from Brazil be like Lady Butterfly or something? And I thought Hawk Moth already had the butterfly miraculous? O_O Oooo wait. You know what would be super cool? If Zoe became the next Hawk Moth. That would be such a punch to the gut XD Then she really will be the butterfly X33

Thank you! 😁💐 That bugs me too in fanfiction when characters are OOC, so when I write fanfics, that is definitely something I like to pay attention to x3 Otherwise the story isn't believable )X And I'm glad that I'M not the crazy one lol The two characters are very similar in many ways!

RIGHT?! I really dislike wasted potential...especially with reformed villains. It's such a harmful message that they're doing with Chloe. I sincerely hope someone in the writers room convinces Astruc to let them follow through with Chloe's redemption cuz otherwise it's totally not cool what they're doing.

It's all thomasastruc's fault.

:O THAT IS A GREAT POINT

Exactly... Zoé is literally useless and easily replaceable.

😫😓 I heard about that. I hate it. If her being akunatises 1 million times doesn't contribute to her redemption, then it's so annoying and repetitive. Good for Sabrina development, but we have to bring down Chloe to do it 😖

By now all characters are empty shells. They can’t be unique and different from Marionette without being a villain. They have to be nice and bland as cardboard to be accepted bonus if they are perfect Mary Sues with the curvy bodies (notice only Chloe has no curves on her body “rectangular body type” and her sister and good girls have curvy bodies. Then again this show is written by a sexist man child.

Oh! neat! ^0^

Thank you so much! I'm happy you like my art. If drawing is what you enjoy, you should totally get back into it again ^0^ And I'm happy you liked the video! Glad I'm not the only one a little annoyed with how the writers are handling Chloe. Thanks so much for watching and for commenting! ^_^

ehhhh I have other plans for her in my story. BUT I'm glad you like that idea X3

I really hope that's true! I do agree with you, though. I believe that Chloe's expression when Zoe hugged her was an indication that she still has a heart and can change. So lets hope for the best!

@@TheArtisticAloubell yesss! It's important to remember that Thomas Astruc will straight up lie to us to misdirected/mislead our expectations. I think he outright lied to us about Chloe to stir us up, it's got us talking about it, right? MORE SO if he just said "yeah Chloe will be a good baddies, just as she deserves," like we'd all be like "whoo! When?" But the uncertainty has got us talking, theorizing, even straight up ANGRY!! Lol, why did he have to talk about Chloe the way he did? Honestly I just feel bad, because like, "princess highschool brat is always going to be princess brat," and you know what, I don't even care if she stayed a princess brat, if she wasn't such a bully. I'd love Chloe to be a sassy ball-buster, instead of "women are only good if they are NICE AND GOOD AND COMPLETE THEIR WOMENLY ROLES AS EMPATHETIC NURTURERS," because that's not what women are, those are the roles placed/instilled on women for centuries, but that's not what women are, and it's sad to only reward women/girls for being "pretty, nice, empathetic nurturers." It's sexist and misogynistic, and as a female-wide fan base, a lot of us adult fans are insecure where Chloe's headed and how she'll be treated. She has great potential to be a great, amazing character, and many people need to fall, hard, hit rock bottom, before they realize how much of a little shit, asshole, etc they were before they change for the better, climbing up out of that well of despair and sorrow, face to face with their own toxicity, demons, bad behavior/habits, and claw their way out of it. We've seen Chloe be nice, actively trying to be a good person. Marinette's not perfect, and has her own toxic behavior/habits, that are laughed at because it's "cute" and also centers her attention around a boy. So it's kinda interesting watching the show as it comes out, from an adult woman's perspective. Also shoutout to YOU, I love the online KZfaq community, at least the few I follow, since most of ya'll are ALSO adults watching the show, and I love y'alls input on it. Sometimes we rip them all apart, like Mari's stalkerish and (her own) bully-complex toxicity (against Chloe especially. Like, I and we get it, but she doesn't face any consequences for her actions, even if she herself is being a bully. But she's also "changed" her behavior when she became friends with Kagami after they were previously "polite" enemies.) But yup yup. I know we all know the existing sexist undertones in the show. I hope they stop making the three girls (Chloe, Kagami, and Mari) pine for Adrien. Honestly it kinda feels like some sadboy's harem wet dream. I would also like to pitch in, while I love Adrinette, I wouldn't be upset in the slightest if Adrigami was still a thing. They did their transitionships dirty, it didn't even last a full 20 minutes, between the end of S3, the NY special, and the beginning of S4. But the end of S3 with them going their seperate ways there was beautiful. Also if Adrien ended up with Chloe, I wouldn't be sad in the slightest either. But Mari needs to stop being cringey around Adrien or it will never happen, and it's so cringe. Also am mad, need more Ladrien scenes. Mari, even as Ladybug, can barely say a word properly to him, and its not Adrien's fault for not seeing the similarities in behavior when they only have one 30s with eachother in that one episode where Ladybug drops him off in his bathroom to shower. Blind bat, they boy is.

@@anobody6564 I really hope he's just lying to conceal an awesome story for her TToTT Something I have a bit of an issue with the show is how all of the good characters are the same kind of nice and sweet. Like...you can be a nice, good person, but not be sugary sweet. Chloe would be such a cool good guy (if handled correctly) because she would keep some of her bite and attitude as traits like that don't just go away. Like...she'd be the kind of good guy who wouldn't let people trample on top of her. She'd be blunt and get things done for the greater good (I think). The show needs that kind of variety. I also agree about the couples. It's terrible that both Lukanette and Adrigami lasted less than 20 min on screen. The fact that the writers thought that was okay just astounds me. They needed several episodes each to develop and show the audience why the couples won't work in the long run. However, I WAS hoping that Luka would find out Marinette's identity cuz he had been through so much and deserved to know the truth. I'm glad it happened, though I know he'll be burdened with this knowledge DX Poor boy. In any case, thank you for your thoughtful comments

That makes me so sad D'X Hopefully another writer or director votes him out of that decision )'X Thank you for letting me know about my audio! I can't project my voice as much as I'd like to cuz I live with other people, but I'll try to increase the volume in the editing process. Thanks for watching! ^_^

I agree!

Ah yes, Lila. I've heard about her. I've havent seen anything about development towards her. But if the writers decide to give her legit development, I'd be down for that! I actually didn't know that Zag had a positive view on Chloe! Hopefully his influence inspires the writers to go forth with a redemption for her ^_^ I'm sorry the show was ruined for you. But hey...fanfiction exists! haha But who knows? the show isn't over yet, so maybe they'll surprise us all!

This makes me question what even was the point of making Lila quote "worse than Chloe" when the writers were going to double down on Chloe being bad and pretty much erasing Lila or making her a minor character.

@@JayRedGear That is very true. If Chloe really won't be redeemed, then Lila has no narrative purpose. Two bullies of the same type is redundant. If done well, Chloe would reform and Lila could be her foil or an image of what Chloe could have been had she not changed.

@@lemonsweets220 Such a passionate response, oh my goodness XD I've heard that Lila barely has any development, so I definitely agree it would be cool to get some of that so that the audience can understand her more! ^0^ And Marinette definitely isn't perfect. It's okay that she has flaws, however, from what I hear, the show fails at having the other characters point out her flaws or Mari noticing her own flaws. And that's what makes it frustrating because she can't mature if she isn't shown whats she's doing wrong.

Maybe in MLB Awakening, we could see what we will not be able to see in the series since Jeremy Zag will be in charge c:

Lol I was actually referring to the eagle miraculous from the New York special haha

@@TheArtisticAloubell OH GOSH I TOTALLY FORGOT THAT THIS MIRACULOUS EXSIST MY BAD Sorry

Thank you

It is a really awesome trope. Even if its overdone, as long as its done well, I don't mind, cuz I love the message of the reformed villain. So to see Astruc say that Chloe is irredeemable is really frustrating X(

Vegeta is one of my if not my favorite anime character X3

Unpopular opinion: Vegeta and Bulma have a more realistic relationship than Adrien and Marinette.

Yeah, I heard about that 😤 That lack of self awareness is annoying 😖

@@TheArtisticAloubell Cyrus The Great is right when he says she became a Mary Sue (judging by his reviews) and that Master Su Han hasn't been proven wrong about anything he said, despite the plot saying otherwise.

@@TheArtisticAloubell i also have to disagree with Astruc about Chloe, she is too young to be irredeemable, also, even bullies like Chloe, or delinquents have good in them, for example Kayo Majiba from Machimaho, she is a delinquent that got accidentaly chosen as a Magical Girl,so she is rude, abrasive, and since this is an adult parody of the genre, she is very brutal to the monsters that attack the city, often reducing them to chunks of meat and blood, since said monsters kill humans,it is justified. Kayo has good in her however and it shows from time to time.

be careful!!! MAri might as well call both of them (the Venom could stop Loveater and the Wind gather the hearts) but CHloe HAD TO speak to her in a civil way rather than do worse

@@ANIMATIONLOVERBT She would have, if Astruc wasn't so focused in undoing every bit of progress she made and assassinating her character. Don't even get me started on Mari just letting Felix, a sociopath who did worse than Chloe by bringing Monarch into existence, keep the Peacock Miraculous, if Chloe doesn't get a redemption, he doesn't deserve it either, he arguably did what Gilda Dent did on The Long Halloween, and just like the movie, that bastardized the story of the comics, she suffered no repercussions, while in the comics she disappeared from Gotham, after all, every citizen there would want her head on a pike after her actions caused a power vaccum in the underworld that was occupied by Batman's Rogues Gallery.

Considering Miraculous will still be around for a few more seasons, I REALLY hope they do something positive with Chloe DX I'm aware Vesperia meant wasp or something--that's even more reason for me not to care for her LOL Wasps are the worst and have no other purpose than being the worst. I sincerely hope Zoe is a villain haha Thank you for your kind words

@The Artistic Aloubell Zoe being a Villain would be a neat twist And of course ( ﾉ^ω^)ﾉ†♡

That makes me so sad TTvTT Here's to hoping he changes his mind!

@@TheArtisticAloubell as much as I'd like him to, he won't.

@@crystalpokedude4329 TTvTT

thank you!

Thank you!

1. Chloe had already been nice BEFORE having the miraculous of the bee 2. it's true chloe should have been faced with the reality of the difference between what she wants and what she needs (to do a job on herself) and normally ladybug should have told her after getting the miraculous from the bee because she KNOWS that Chloe feels lonely and useless in normal times which she didn't do and it's very weird! This limits the unavoidable difficult conversation between the mediator (ladybug) and the redeemer (Chloé). but no the writers just botched the breaking point between chloe and ladybug without any real digging into ladybug's role as chloe's moral compass or chloe's conflict, in a word bad writing! And personally I think it was completely voluntary!

exactly. ANd having the Comb only lead her to be "exceptional" like her idol, like her mother wanted, NOT to respect people. She never said "OMG I am an elitist and dishonest crap, no wonder people hate me". PLus, Chloe considers the other heroes like crap. She would not kiss the road where LAdybug walks if Ladybug had not saved her from Stoneheart. If Chloe's hairdo only had been ruined, LAdybug too would be put to do the ass' homework (see Evillustrator). Ladybug should tell Chloe clearly how Chloe hurts people and how many akumas arrive because of Chloe, and ask what Chloe felt if treated in the same way

@@phaoragenesisdiraskreia8877 you cannot play the nice girl when your friend threatens to go f*** you or only for a stupidly lenient teacher. You must loom at your elitism and stop with EVERYBODY

Thank you

That would be so heartbreaking 😭 I hope that doesn't happen. I'm also hoping for some kind of Zoe development, as long as it's done right. Cuz as of now, she's pretty nothing.

@@TheArtisticAloubell yeah...i am constantly scared they'd write off chloe like this, to teach the young a lesson in giving into your greed. ...the worst part will be that no one will remorse for her. shes just be a scapegoat

@@ethantay4630 there's still 3 seasons left (at least) so hopefully they give Chloe a redemption and more development. She is so full of potential. 😭😭

@@TheArtisticAloubell honestly, season 3 left a bad taste in my mouth....and because of that i cantreally enjoy the season 4 so far...especiallt with all the stupid decisions made by the charecters

@@ethantay4630 you're better than me lol. I couldn't sit through any of the show at all

Yup yup! 😎

Thank you! X3 Chloe has shown in canon to be a bit more self-aware than her mom is (ya know...when she's written well), so I think if the one person she's dominated without resistance (Sabrina) rises up against her, it'll be a wake up call. But that's just a theory X3 Naturally, the writers can do whatever they want, but this seems to make sense to me X3

Aww thank you so much!

@@TheArtisticAloubell unfortunately it is 😭, but I'll keep treasuring the beautiful moments of season 2 where she was changing 😁, that's the real Chloe to me!

I also hope the writers throw her a bone DX She deserves SOMETHING

@@TheArtisticAloubell if the writters did hated her the least they could have done is just stop at the s2 finale and let ladybug tell chloe she cant queen bee anymore , chloe understands it but atleast she got her mother's attention and so chloe got transferned to a school were she could be reformed and getting visits from friends and family and ended her arch there atleast it wont be a slap to the face to the fans of chloe instead of making her bad again and replace her with a mary sue ( zoe)

I'm sorry about that DX I didn't know how to adjust my volume all that well back then. My audio is better nowadays =)

At this point, if she at least gets character development and reforms, I'll be happy.

@@TheArtisticAloubell Me too! I agree with that she should have another miraculous instead.

Thank you

I appreciate you for listening to them!