Understood and thank you for replying. It’s really cool to have the manufacturer provide this kind of “behind the scenes” info. I know some manufacturers (KEF and a couple Andrew Jones designs as well as one of the Ascend Acoustics) will purposely tilt down the on-axis response in some of their designs to "make up" for the wide and flat directivity in the HF so that the in-room response won’t sound bright or treble-heavy. Always trade-offs.

this is one of those examples where the truth hurts.. I am with you 100% on this one.. too bright between 2 to 8 kHz may work for some people who like lower SPL's, but definitely not optimal for louder listening.. and I am also tired of that mindset that subs are always needed. it's always puzzling how knowledge and ignorance can actually intersect due to a lack of sense.😉

The never ending juggling of comprimises encountered in this pursuit.

@@FOH3663 the point, in my mind, is that the manufacturers should try to make the equipment as accurately as possible, but, if people decide they want to hear something non-optimal, they can EQ and add subs to their heart's content.. if they're going to manufacture equipment that's application specific, then as a manufacturer they should "advertise" the equipment in that vein.. hip-hop speakers or heavy metal speakers or whatever. Market to the strength of the product.

Not related to the review, but the domain march dot audio actually is something you might register. Probably a bit pricier than cut rate domains though.

I suspect an amp based on the Purifi 1ET400A could be just the ticket for these. Kits based on the Eval1 and Eval2 (and Hypex PSU) are available at very reasonable prices too (I use an Eval1 based amp, and it's just difficult to describe how good it is). I you really want to indulge yourself, the 1ET7040SA looks even better.

They are not sealed. They have 2 passive radiators. Speakers with passive radiators are more akin to ported than sealed speakers.

Thanks. Yeah, I definitely drop the ball on some of those details. Thanks for holding me accountable.

@@ErinsAudioCorner Erin, whatever details I'm curious about that are not in your video, I usually try the manufacturer for additional information. Sometimes I don't get all the details, but usually enough to satisfy the basic technical curiousities, but for particular info about cabinet construction, crossover design, materials and parts, manufacturers are usually only sometimes accomodating, and only to a certain degree. March Audio has a fairly reasonable amount of info about this product on their website. Viewers can't expect to be told how to design the speakers you are reviewing.😂

Thanks for sharing, Matias!

Cool. How are you powering them?

@@FOH3663 Hypex NCx500 modules, 700W per channel into 2 and 4 ohms. Plenty of clean power.

@@FOH3663 I use Hypex NCx500 modules. 700W into both 2 and 4 ohms. Plenty of clean power.

What is your setup? Could you share please?

Thank you kindly!

Hey, man, thank you!

Thanks! 😁

It’s because I pay people not to subscribe. 😂😂😂😂😂

@@ErinsAudioCorner I'll unsubscribe for a check.

@@CC-xu2yz ✅

Not sure there are many subs that cost >$100k

Adelaide "ascension" speakers for "budget" speakers, still seem decent using sb acoustics mostly .

Manufacturer told me. They had this speaker measured by the folks at Warkwyn beforehand as part of the design process and that’s how they came up with this info.

As a KH150 owner I was thinking the same. These must be about the best linearity I've seen without DSP and that distortion is very low indeed. They're around double the price though it seems, taking need for decent amplification into account.

For that Price in Europe you Can get kh 150's + kh 750, you Can get to 20Hz, no need for an amp, you get built in Ma-1 correction. Directivity is a tad better but the kh system beats them in every category, with a few added bonuses including full spectrum phase linearity, weight, and ability to put them close to a wall. Best passive bookshelves i've ever seen measured though, impressive performance Indeed.

@@matieuche Price in Europe is bound to end up at euro 5K+...

@@dananskidolf From personal experience, the DIYclassD Hypex Nilai500-based stereo amplifier kit is exceptional at around $1350 USD and has plenty of power to drive nearly any loudspeakers with the added benefit of being pretty much impedance-load agnostic. It's a completely solderless kit with snap-together wiring harnesses provided and will only take you half a day to assemble using just basic hand tools. IMO, that's not a ton of money, but IME it offers exceptional performance matching that of much more expensive amplifiers. I haven't done definitive blind testing yet, but from my personal subjective impressions, so far I have preferred the Hypex Nilai500 over the Purifi Eigentakt, and I'm a bonified Purifi fanboi otherwise, haha. FYI, I've also had the Neumann KH 120a active studio monitors since 2013, and I'm still impressed with their performance, especially considering their diminutive size. The KH 150 obviously improve on the KH 120 in every metric, and although I'd love to own them as well, I've already got a few other DIY loudspeakers that perform similarly.

I don't know that you could claim that the Neumann combo is better . More full range yes but I doubt the KH150 drivers are nearly as good ,they simply are not .​@@matieuche

Oh, wow! Thank you!!

I'm not sure if you've seen it yet, but Erin also has a utoob video and written website review for the Dutch & Dutch 8C, and he praises them as well.

I'd love to hear a set. They cost too much for me to want to dish out on just online info.

I don't see why not, but perhaps that's a question for the designer and manufacturer in the "pinned" comment at the top.

Get a protractor and draw to scale of such stands, tweeter height and 7⁰ angle downwards; you might find that you can only have a really low couch. The tweeter will need to be above your ears when upside down

Agreed.

@thomaslutro5560 For sure! I use several of the Purifi midwoofer and modbass drivers in both my home and car systems, and I've been patiently waiting for this Purifi tweeter ever since Lars Risbo hinted that one might be in the works. But in the meantime, I have been very happy with the BlieSMa beryllium dome tweeters.

@@bbfoto7248 Yeah, the Bliesma is the bomb. I've heard those at a show in Norway. In a fully DSP controlled, xo and room correction, DIY system. I think the rest of the driver complement ws some of those Morel underhung motor carbon fiber mids (MTM), Acoustic elegance 15" woofers (four eac side?). and four SEAS L26ROY each side for the sub bass (the owner has a nuber of satelite dish sized woofers at home, more or less built into the room, and pretty impractical to haul off to a show.) No part of that system was less than amazing. Leaps and bounds above all the other systems, ranging from hifi prices to car prices to house prices. And you've just got to love anyone who plays ABBA at a HiFi show. 😆

I have a pair of the Mesanovic Model 2 ribbon microphones in my home studio and can't recommend them highly enough. I'd definitely love to try his monitors as well. Can't imagine they'd be anything but excellent.

With a sub the March shares a second place at spinorama, very good indeed.

The bass on these is definitely better. But you are right; aesthetically I prefer the MoFi.

@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks, mate. Yeah, we each have our own personal preferences in regards to aesthetics. But from my own personal experience using the Purifi drivers, it's really hard to imagine achieving better bass and midbass performance, as well as the fantastic SQ of their midrange, of course. But I also have a pair of the Kali IN-8 and can appreciate what good concentric drivers bring to the table. I'm also really interested in and looking forward to the release of the Purifi tweeters. But for now, I'm over the moon with the performance and SQ of the BlieSMa beryllium tweeters.

I’ve had the opportunity to review those, but I have turned it down. Something just doesn’t sit right with me reviewing a speaker of his after his passing.

@@ErinsAudioCorner Because you know he will be standing right behind you with laser eyes pointed right at the back of your head. But if you turn around he will disappear, only the reappear the millisecond you turn your back again. Bagby takes no prisoners. Having said that, I desperately want to build a pair of his Spirit Winds.

Maybe you could review the new Helios TX version that Javad is working on. I would be interested to see that one...

@@matt996 the tweeter javad using in the new TX version is textreme one but it's not listed in Any website why?

March Audio replied to this already in the comments section.

Nah. That’s a function of the waveguide so it’s already “baked in”.

Hi. As I mentioned in the original comments, there is a direct correlation between directivity "width" and how bright the speaker will sound (regardless of having a flat on axis response). So you need to balance dispersion with the in room response to ensure it doesn't tip into bright and fatuiging. This dispersion is dictated by the tweeter waveguide. Any speakercdesign is a bunch of compromises and we beleive sacrificing a little dispersion width is worth doing to obtain the most neutral and non fatuiging timbre.

Shipping overseas likely would cost a bit. In Australia the shipping is about 2.5% the price

In the EU, total price will end up to about the euro 5K+ region... plus you have to pay return shipping to Australia if anything goes wrong..

Simple, manufacturer choose direct model and isn't greedy

@5333092 It's not only about greed, it costs a lot to run a manufacturing business. Maybe labour is cheap in Aus??

@@Audio_Simon Labour is very expensive in Aus, but you don't seem to appreciate that a worldwide distribution and support network accounts for at least 50% of the end price. Part of it is offset by lower manufacturer marketing costs (since much of it is on the distributors) but in this case I don't think March Audio spend too much on marketing. Btw crossover parts cost is usually little more than peanuts.

They're great speakers period

it prob depends on what your needs are / what you care about most. what your ear height will be most often. will there be a sub. how loud you need to get. etc. per room size. tons of smaller speakers do really well.

WHAT "reasonable" price? What everyone considers reasonable is different.

You are right. I was thinking about ~ 8000$ for a 5.2.4 setup.

​@@a.s.5280are you on reddit? I'd say KZfaq comments is a bit constrained

Personally, I'd go with the KEF.

I thought they would have been sent off to be measured at the same time as Sointuva (different people than Erin). Not sure why the measurements are taking so long !

I’m told they are currently at Warkwyn for measurement.

I have not.

I’m not familiar with that particular subwoofer. But if it’s a best case scenario, then I would probably go the subwoofer and Kef route with the appropriate crossover. If you’re looking for a bookshelf, speaker, that can pretty much play full range, though, this speaker is probably your best bed that I’m aware of today.

I have. I purchased the hybrid CD. I actually purchased two copies. One is still sealed.

@@ErinsAudioCorner Hey mate! I'll trade you straight across for your used copy of the MoFi Thriller album for a certain kick@ss 7-disc box set compilation of 80's tunes titled, "Like, Omigod! The 80's Pop Culture Box (Totally!)". ;-) I knows yous gots my email! :-P

The truth is that most of the time there is a correlation, but it’s not always the case.

I get asked this question quite a lot, with regard to both speakers and amplifiers. I think there is a bit of a general misunderstanding about why kit sounds different at low volumes. The kit doesn't fundamentally sound different at lower volumes. However, your perception of sound certainly does change. You are less sensitive to low and high frequencies at low volumes. Hence the Loudness controls of old (out of fashion now). Google Fletcher Munsen curves.😊

If you’re using sensitivity means, then, they will naturally roll off a bit earlier so you have to use a subwoofer. But the benefit you get is a higher sensitivity. That’s just an example though. I would never say that crossing over at 80 Hz entirely defeats the purpose of using more expensive speakers. There other qualities that make them expensive. And this particular case, however, it’s nearly full range and I feel like if you plan to buy this speaker and cross it over at 80 Hz, then you can find other options that cost less.

thanks Erin! love your channel

I'm not crazy about what Denon does with their presets when someone wants to connect a sub - 80Hz and nothing else

No plans but I’d be happy to.

Honestly, what does it matter what kind of capacitors are used in the crossover when both the objective data and subjective listening impressions are confirmed as being EXCELLENT and already comparitively better than many other speakers that are more expensive. Erin "pinned" a comment to the top of the comments section by the original designer and manufacturer of this speaker. Perhaps he would be the one to ask regarding any potential differences in the type of capacitors that are used, and what benefits, if any, would be audible, and at what increased cost? But I highly doubt that he would use subpar capacitors if he knew they would actually degrade both their measured and subjective performance. A difference in using "better" capacitors would most likely only add $200-$300 at most, which IMO isn't terribly significant at this price point.

@@bbfoto7248because they have their own sound

The crossover is adequate. It does what it needs to using decent, but not over the top components. Probably similar to what I would use.

What happens to it at high SPL? Does the limiter decrease bass output? How much? This is an important distinction for me.

​@@ErinsAudioCorner The review is on ASR but the compresion is about 2 db at 96 db with the Buchardt and it has higher distortion because it reaches lower frequecny in a sealed cabinet, so its kind of a trade off. Also the fact that already has his owm amplifier while costing almost the same should be making it a much better value than this speaker. The March Audio Sointuva AWG performs really good but it doesn't seem close to begin the "Ultimate HIFI bargain"

​@@danielezzet8870 I believe you have to put his superlative into context: best bargain of the speakers he has heard. Also, he did say in a comment that he doesn't care for limiters in active speakers. Plus, he said if viewers know of a better bargain then comment. When he hears them, he will be able to judge whether the increased distortion keeps them from trouncing these speakers.

7 deg above the tweeter is the reference axis.

The sound power is calculated from all the measurements taken around the speaker. The "on axis" SPL is as Erin says ideal on a 7 deg axis from the tweeter centre.

And Sun Audio Purified 4, which leaves the choice of DSP and amps to the user, thus outboard solution. Purifi woofer and Bliesma tweeter. All very nice options to choose from.

@ron5493 Agreed that Jeff Bagby's Helios is an excellent DIY speaker. For the money, they are difficult to match if you can DIY. I built Jeff's KAIROS which is another excellent design that punches well above its price point, but unfortunately had to sell them when downsizing, but heard a friend's Helios. But from personal experience with both, the Purifi midwoofer and midbass drivers are another level above the Satori line in both midbass and midrange quality when properly implemented, albeit at increased cost.

It does. They do. :)

Thanks ​@@ErinsAudioCorner

@stevenbauer1730 I've heard several people with this same strong viewpoint regarding how they just can't get past the odd look of these midwoofers due to their unique or "funky" surround design. I find that interesting and actually a bit amusing (now). I have to admit that I found it a bit odd at first as well. However, once you actually understand and appreciate the brilliant and purposeful design of this surround from a technological and acoustics engineering perspective, this aspect of their design really grows on you, and I actually visualize/imagine this technology in action while sitting down and listening to them, LOL. :P The interface or intersection of the surround to the edge of the cone and the surround's constantly changing shape or profile during the +/- excursion of the cone on traditional cone-based loudspeaker transducers has always created some acoustic anomalies and detrimental effects, and it has just been an accepted limitation of cone/surround-based drivers. And these detrimental effects only worsen as the SPL and excursion increases...i.e. the louder we play our speakers. But the brilliant designers of the Purifi drivers finally came up with a unique and very effective surround profile and design that virtually eliminates these negative effects, and in effect the surround for all intents and purposes becomes "invisible" to the sound waves that are propagating and eminating from the driver's cone. With this unique surround design, the size and shape of the cone is effectively more consistent and is no longer constantly changing as the cone moves in & out. This greatly improves linearity and accuracy. This unique surround profile is truly a major leap forward in what is otherwise age old driver design, and IMO is a true work of art to an acoustic/transducer engineer. And IMPE, this, along with some of the other unique technology in the motor design of these Purifi drivers is readily apparent when listening to them. It's NOT a gimmick.

Oh, and there is of course the possibility to add speaker grills to these in order to hide the offending drivers from view. :P But I'm sure they might have their own detrimental effects

Did your read the forum responses in the thread that mentioned and displayed sub-standard assembly methods ?

​@@ChicagoRob2that was the old WG... I have a friend with the new AWGs and he has never had any issues... Also that whole review and the whole back and forth was ugly and didn't need get there... I have a conspiracy but I'm not about to share it with the Internet but all I'd say is best not take one data point of issue as gospel

@@Mishael_Agyei-Boamah Point taken, but there was no excuse for all the cabinet leaks, certainly for speakers at that price point. Plus, the area where the speaker terminals were installed looked like they were chewed on by rats.

@@ChicagoRob2 well that isn't the case with the refresh but if a singular point is why you won't get something or even give it the light of day then that's valid too and no love lost there... I just don't like when that's propagated like that is the norm with this speaker

A weighting.

@ErinsAudioCorner alright damn you do listen fairly loud. Personally I've been wanting to see some higher output compression data to really differentiate the higher end speakers. When I'm rocking im usually around 113dBC/100dBA (with subs ~10ft away).

​@@Hype3rshadow please be careful with your hearing. For a general guide you can listen at 85dB for 8 hours a day. Every 3dB increase you half the acceptable exposure time. So for 100dB(A) you are looking at only 15 minutes before you potentially can cause damage.

@marchaudio1366 cool to see you responded! I actually had a bout with tinnitus recently after listening too loudly. I've been educating myself on those NIOSH recommendations quite a bit while trying to ascertain what a "safe" but still enjoyably loud listening level would be for me. Im starting to limit my sessions to 90dBA max but there doesn't seem to be much if any information out there about the low frequency limit.

Oh, man, those Ref 1 Metas are INCREDIBLE. I’d really like to put these side-by-side and compare them. But I don’t think we would be surprised if we preferred the KEF. And, of course, we probably should give that it is twice the price. Anyway, you have nothing to regret with your purchase. I absolutely love that speaker. It’s one of my all-time favorites.

Comparing measurements, the Sointuva AWG has deeper bass, slightly more linear and less dynamic compression. The Reference 1 Meta had that wider radiating highs. They are very competitive imo, but the Sointuva AWG is less than half MSRP price, so the better value.

The speaker to the right is turned around. That is the back. :)

Well duh! thanks@@ErinsAudioCorner

I noticed that as well but it's hard to say exactly what the cause is. The driver is different; being an aluminum cone version. Maybe there's something that's "different enough" to make this difference.

I am assuming the AWG version can get lower and the trade off is a bit higher compression but I couldn't find the F3 and F10 numbers for the previous version on your website. Hope you can take a look at the measurement of previous version. Thanks in advance!!

You can get them from the graph easily enough. It'll be different in room anyway

​@@ErinsAudioCornerthe driver listed is the "W" aluminium version with less coil excursion than the previous version with the "X" paper cone. Unless there a typo and they are using the "X" aluminium version

Understood. Like I replied to another comer, I can’t think of any other passive speakers that have the frequency, bandwidth and load distortion that this speaker has. Certainly not in its size for sure. Now, if we want to talk about active, powered speakers, of course, that’s a different story. The issue with those for me is that everyone of them except for the Dutch and Dutch 8C use DSP limiting. I don’t really like that feature. As for tower speakers in this price range, I admittedly don’t have a lot of experience. I have measured some such as the JBL HDI-3800 and Revel 226Be. Neither of those extend as low as these (but they weren’t designed to, either). This is my perspective of when I say HiFi value. I can only think of a few passive speakers that perform as well as this particular one and they are at least double the price. KEF Reference Meta 1 ($9k/pair) and JBL 4367 ($16k/pair, and huge). If you have any examples of bookshelf, sized speakers that perform as well as these do at the same price, or less than I am all ears. Seriously. Also, keep in mind of what I said in the title. A “HiFi bargain”. Many “HiFi“ speakers do not perform as well, but cost as much or more.

Not sure on the ones in the video. You could ask Alan too. Otherwise, you can see the website for the choice of hardwood, Birch ply or MDF which can be painted in many colours

The ones in the review are Tasmanian Oak. Many options available.

That's definitely a great track. "Make Us Stronger" by Ghost Rider or "Acoustic Crumpet" & "The Last Rainforest" by DJ Smilk are excellent as well. I really like "Dub in a Time of Cholera" by Dub Colossus. "Boxenkiller" by Martin Hess & Cyril Lutzelschwab from the Focal/JM Lab Disque du Demonstration No. 4. "Testa di Basso" by Saturnino on the Microprecison Test CD or New CD Picaso sampler disc. But I also prefer good recordings with acoustic upright double bass. Just about anything from Brian Bromberg, Ray Brown Trio (The Real Blues), or Nenad Vasilic are good. The separate upright bass and drum solos in "Devil May Care" from Cecile McLorin Salvant's "Dreams and Daggers" album is excellent. Try Lhasa de Sela's "My Name" from her "Living Road" album, both for the bass in the intro and the percussion imaging later in the track. Jacques Loussier's "Little Fugue in G Minor BWV 578" from the "Encore!" album for the attack/impact and decay of the floor tom drum...and all around excellent test track. Prokofiev's "Bass Drum Concerto - Movement 4: Allegro Brilliante (may speed)" Joby Burgess on Hyperion Records. There's a short but excellent track (# 5) titled, "Classical Bass Authority" on the "NuForce Test CD" that is incredibly revealing. But the primary track I use for testing bass accuracy, detail, and impact is Track # 4 " Acoustic Percussion Ensemble" from the Stockfisch Records "Are You Authentic? AYA Acoustic Audio Check" SACD. That SACD or Vinyl LP also includes other excellent tracks for testing all specific aspects of a loudspeaker system. There are a lot I'm forgetting at the moment, but that's a start.

@@bbfoto7248 i will try to search these tracks on my streaming service

Agreed regarding the retail price of these speakers relative to the cost of the raw drivers, a quality cabinet, and well-performing crossover. And that's great to hear in regards to your new amp and Alan's customer service. Cheers!

Not to mention everything is currently 15% off for Feb; so yeah; the cost of cabinet makers and parts plus assembly; seems like not much room for gains. But idk. Maybe there are ways. Being a manufacturer there would be bulk discount for components at least

Shure OEM prices are shure lower but still, I''m shure that March Audio price is more than onest and he doesn't hit the almost indicent margins like usually happens in the high end domain. For example a pair of Lyingdorf audio CUE-100 cost 21'000€ Vs 2'700€ for a couple of Sointuva, for what more? An ATM tweeter (maybe a little more expensive than the Satori) 3 legs (more sticks) and a Nordic (IKEA like) design?

@@athosroduner7797 Look at the small $10k+ 2-way Wilson Audio TuneTots for another comparison. They DO put a lot of effort and proprietary design/materials into their enclosures... But IME, I don't think that it actually contributes quite as much to their performance as the pricing and hype might suggest. They do use top quality Scanspeak-sourced drivers, but given that just the two drivers per enclosure are being used, well, IDK, the price seems exorbitant for what equates to being just another small 2-way standmount. But as a much larger company, they obviously have way more overhead and operating expenses to cover. A lot of our determinations and rationality regarding price vs. performance and "value" are based on our perception of the apparent "prestige" of the brand. But that doesn't always result in comparatively better real world performance versus less expensive options such as the speakers under review in this video.

That tends to go for any speaker that has to cover from another country. If it's a distributed brand, you just get slapped with the cost straight up when purchasing. Eg EU brands sold in USA and vice versa

@@RennieAsh Yes, but one has to compare apples to apples. This is not a $4K speaker in the EU, it is not even a euro 4K speaker, it is a euro 5K+ speaker with all the added disadvantages, that was the point of my comment.

​@@razisnyes, varies by country. Usually creator talks about things from the perspective of the country they're in. It may suck to get them to your country but doesn't mean it's not good for other places. Same thing goes for all the free shipping bargain bin speakers in America - you pay double in aus and still have to pay shipping on top of it

Yes, d&d 8c you have to wait for extra cash XD it's a fair chunk to get some extra bass and cardioid . To be fair they have amps but still

@@RennieAsh yup, but d&d seems to be a really god option if you just want to listen to music and stoop thinking about switching amps/dacs/speakers (aka audiophilia nervousa) I've been there (with headphones) and never want to go back to that sad state. I'm here for music not equipment

Kind of largish for a desk imo. Check their measurements and try to build a carton mock-up to check.

@OldeDeus I'm sure you could, but IMO they are quite large for that application and you'd definitely want EQ to dial-in the response. As Erin noted, these are ideal when you pull them away from the wall. But if you have a large-ish desk and it sits in out in the room and not against a wall you'll probably be okay. You will also typically get a cancellation null in the response around ~130-180Hz from the reflection off of the desk surface in front of the speaker which affects the lower vocal range and overall clarity and spectral balance. Professional active studio monitors typically have a good range of built-in EQ "trim" controls on the back to help combat this, as well as the near-wall boundary loading and HF shelf filters to dial-in the treble response to your preference depending on nearby reflective surfaces. So for that reason, as well as keeping desk clutter to a minimum, for desktop use I much prefer to use a good, relatively compact active studio monitor set combined with a smallish 8"-10" subwoofer if needed. So, for just a bit less money, I would actually suggest the Neumann KH 150 studio monitors. These are a bit smaller than the speakers under review here, and IME you probably would not even need a subwoofer with them, unless you have found that you have ALWAYS needed a subwoofer to enjoy your music by filling in the lowest frequencies (for substantial output below ~40Hz). But actually, for Desktop Use I would suggest the smaller Neumann KH 120 II over the KH150. The KH 120 are quite small (but not too small) and IMO are PERFECT for a desktop setup, which is how I have used the original KH 120A since 2013. Over all this time, I have not been disappointed in any way whatsoever with the performance of my OG Neumann KH 120 for this use. They even dig low and deep enough and offer precise detail for excellent reproduction of kick drums (I'm a drummer/percussionist & saxophonist) and bass guitar/bass synth, etc. Yes, a decent subwoofer such as the also excellent KH 750 will enhance and solidify the low end even further. But for everyday listening to 95% of my music, I don't find that I miss it, even with these smallish KH 120 A. When listening in the nearfield with a desktop setup, you Do Not need crazy SPL output capability! And the KH 120 still fill my medium-small room with PLENTY of output for general music listening. In addition to always having a high-ish end home HiFi system for over 25 years, I've had a home recording studio for about 12 years, and IME I find that it's far too easy for most people to drastically over emphasize the low end when they've added a subwoofer (IOW, they really want to make sure that they "hear it" to get their money's worth out of it). But over-boosting the subwoofer frequencies will begin to mask and blur all of the amazing detail and texture in bass instruments such as the intricate detail of an upright double bass. Anyway, my honest suggestion for speakers for Desktop Use specifically would be a well-respected set of Active Studio Monitors, and there are plenty of excellent options in this same price range...and you could most likely include a good subwoofer within that price range as well. However, I understand if you want to stick with standard passive loudspeakers if you already have an excellent preamp & amplifier, integrated amp, streamer/DAC/Amp, etcetera, especially if it also offers decent built-in EQ.

The Sointuva seems to have a small vertical window so you'd really need to aim them correctly. On the plus side 7⁰ above tweeter listening axis means you don't need to have them up as much

Aluminium needs a notch filter, paper version maybe you could get away with it. Probably the crossover at up to 2.5k depending on slope. The original design for the Sointuva was actually using a t34b I think. Crossed at 1600Hz

I think what Erin was getting at is, IF you specifically want to stick with Bookshelf size loudspeakers that play nearly Full Range for all intents and purposes without the necessity of using a separate subwoofer, AND you already have a suitable high-quality amplifier and electronics with enough power to drive these to your preferred listening levels, then there are very few other passive loudspeakers (especially at this price point) which will get the job done without other compromises. A potential option for similar size standmount/bookshelf speakers which also perform extremely well might be the KEF R3 Meta at nearly half the price. BUT you will 100% need to combine the R3 Meta with an equally good subwoofer to even begin to approach the low frequency performance and extension that the Sointuva AWG achieve on their own. IF you don't already have a good amplifier and/or other suitable high-quality electronic components to drive these or other high-quality passive loudspeakers, a potentially comparable option for just slightly less overall cost might be the Neumann KH 150 active studio monitors, which use built-in DSP and amplifiers, and their response can be adjusted via the DSP so as to be tailored for your specific in-room response as well as personal preferences depending on their placement in the room. HOWEVER, as Erin Notes, 95% of active studio monitors on the market at comparable prices usually have built-in power limiters that reduce the lower frequency bass output as you turn the speakers up to higher levels, whereas the passive Sointuva AWG do not have this limitation and might "scale up" better on the low end at higher listening levels as long as you have the necessary power to drive them. Admittedly, for many people, a good bookshlelf "satellite + subwoofer" loudspeaker system may make more sense and be more cost effective. But again, IF you Don't want to use a Separate Subwoofer AND Don't want anything larger than Bookshelf/Standmount size speakers, these are one of the very few that he feels will "get the job done" properly with fantastic SQ.

Aren't there thing like arendal speakers which offer a large chunk of the performance if using an 80hz cut-off? Maybe not the full low distortion etc

@@RennieAsh Possibly. Unfortunately haven't had the opportunity to hear any of the Arendals. :/ But like you (I think), I have quite a bit of experience with higher end DIY loudspeaker designs and raw drivers, and have personally used these same and other Purifi drivers in multiple systems in both my home and car setups. And IMPE, the lifelike midrange and midbass quality and detail that can be achieved when properly implementing these Purifi drivers is second to none (except for possibly my cousin's outrageously expensive Børresen Model 03 floorstanders!), and that includes having used other extremely high-end drivers such as the Scanspeak Revelator and Illuminator, SEAS, SB Acoustic Textremes, Eton HEX/Symphony II, Dynaudio Esotar, Audio Technology Cquenze, Hiquphon, etc. One of the few lines that I haven't tried, but would definitely like to try, are the high-end Accuton ceramic and diamond drivers. But they're just too bloody rich for my blood, and I can't get discounted pricing for them like I can for most of the others. I will say from personal experience that the BlieSMa beryllium dome tweeters and dome midrange drivers are truly EXCEPTIONAL, and are an excellent match to the lifelike qualities of these Purifi drivers, with expensive, but not exorbitant prices considering their performance. To be sure, there are heaps and heaps of good loudspeakers available more than ever before, so finding the needles in the haystack are even that much more difficult and potentially costly. Luckily, Erin and a few others have begun to provide excellent data and real-world observations backed up with heaps of personal experience in order to help isolate and expose some of the best options in nearly every category and price bracket...as well as many of the not so good options. And for that I'm truly grateful @ErinsAudioCorner

BB Foto got it.

​@@bbfoto7248i was eyeing off the hifi compass purifi bliesma waveguide speaker, but they never seemed to get anywhere with deciding if they are going to sell that design . Maybe one day i could fiddle with such drivers, but also easier when someone has already measured and designed the crossover :)

I have a hard time believing that particular speaker you were talking about performs as well as this one. But I’m happy to be proven wrong. The frequency bandwidth and low distortion of this speaker are unparalleled at its price point and size, as far as I’m aware. In fact, I can’t think of any passive speakers that extend this low that can get as loud as they do, that are the same price or cheaper. The only ones I can think of offhand that do are much more expensive. As for the part about most 40-year-olds can’t hear above 4kHz… I’d like to see the research on that. 14-15kHz shows up in a quick google search for middle-aged men. Maybe you have a typo?

@@ErinsAudioCorner A simple phone app test will put the lie to no 4kHz after 40. I'm 63 and have done all kinds of bad things to my hearing in my lifetime, but I can still hear to 9k, which apparently is typical for someone my age.

Judging from the components used, I would say they're not overpriced.

Lol you should look at the price of all the drivers used and the wood construction and the man hours and you'd see these are under priced... If these were made by some snobby old man audiophile brand like B&W, it would have cost $20,000

​@@CC-xu2yzsame age, 12K. Makes me sad but now I feel better😅

What’s the Buchardt do at high volume? Specifically, is there a limiter? My experience with powered speakers is they all use a limiter to decrease bass as volume increases. The only exception I’m aware of is the D&D 8c. Here, I reviewed the Buchardt A500. Scroll toward the bottom and look at the output linearity/compression test. See how regulated the bass is even at 86dB? erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/buchardt_a500/

@@ErinsAudioCorner you are right, A10 are not for loud music BUT they sound freaking amazing @80db! If you want more SPL, cut the bass and add sub. It is fun to have more SPL but for achieving that with the March Audio, you need a 2000$ amp so you are at 6000$ and you still need a sub.

@@ErinsAudioCorner and next time you review Buchardt, remember to hipass them @ 40-50hz to compare to other speakers (just load the S400 mastertuning). By the way I have also the Lintons and love them.the A10 are better in every way. Even the inside DAC is better than my mojo 2 that I use with the Lintons.

I was interested in the A10 too. I think the tweeter solutions will sound different as the A10 uses a smaller diameter tweeter.

Both actually. It’s hard for me to say for sure, but one of my favorite songs off of that is human nature. I just love that soundscape that it creates. Which saying that out loud, now I feel really weird. 😂😂

@@ErinsAudioCorner hahaha, we won't tell if you don't tell. 😂

Was the term "budget" used? HiFi bargain can have a diff. Subjective meaning I think. Its all relative.

I've got price limit creep happening. Will have to stop it lest I end up wasting money on too many new items in the long term.

Yeah no kidding, raw drivers sums to over $3000 by themselves. March isnt making a huge margin on these.

@@dexi9814 exactly. I just checked on the 6.5 and they are actually on sale for $500 a piece never mind the passive radiators , tweeter is probably $285 and then the crossover and cabinet. I have built my own speakers and they cost me around $1000 just the drivers and crossovers and my friends will be like you could sell them for like $200 after I put a 100 hrs to design, test and build them. That's what people don't get

It's an SB acoustics beryllium dome with aluminium waveguide

Well, him and Bruce Swedien. Bruce did some really good work on Thriller. If you have the time, go pull up some of his interviews.

Mutt Lang. Another great Producer 👍 Hope we never forget Mark Selby .rest in peace. Too young

@BostonMike68 I wouldn't go so far as to make that statement. I use several of the purify drivers in both my home and car audio systems, but there are plenty of excellent and very capable low distortion subwoofer drivers on the market, such as many of the Acoustic Elegance models made by Jon Janowitz, or the 13" Scanspeak 32W/4878T00, 10" SEAS L26ROY, JBL GTi 15 MK II, and several other larger subwoofers produced by very well-regarded pro audio driver manufacturers. IIRC, Erin is actually using one of the larger Acoustic Elegance IB18 subwoofers in his current Tesla car audio system, and had previously used the JL Audio 12W6v3 in a sealed enclosure in his former car audio system. ;) In addition, we are much less sensitive to Distortion in the lower bass frequency region compared to the midrange and treble frequencies, i.e. ~3% is the generally accepted audible distortion limit for midrange and treble, while ~10% distortion is the generally accepted limit for subwoofers. But like any other driver, it's all about how well each subwoofer driver is implemented into the final loudspeaker design or system and its crossover to the other drivers. Due to the major influence the room has on the lower bass frequencies, IME it's incredibly important to be able to dial-in and tailor the specific response and output of one or more subwoofers for each specific system. As a quick reference, download the Owner's Manual for any of the Neumann professional studio subwoofer models and read all that they have to say regarding the importance of good subwoofer implementation.

@@bbfoto7248 no I agree there are definitely some good fast subwoofers out there. I actually have a 12" Dayton Reference HE with a 15 reference passive radiator that I put together and run with a XLR crown amp and for the money it's not a slouch. I built it manly for music. I was just thinking how most people have a home theater subwoofer. But I guess if you can spend $4000 on a pair of speakers and you don't do diy you probably would get a REEL or something.

@@bbfoto7248 thanks for the information. I'm always up to learn something new.

You can just use the sub at lower frequencies of you're concerned.

Understood. Like I replied to another commenter, I can’t think of any other passive speakers that have the frequency, bandwidth and load distortion that this speaker has. Certainly not in its size for sure. Now, if we want to talk about active, powered speakers, of course, that’s a different story. The issue with those for me is that everyone of them except for the Dutch and Dutch 8C use DSP limiting. I don’t really like that feature. As for tower speakers in this price range, I admittedly don’t have a lot of experience. I have measured some such as the JBL HDI-3800 and Revel 226Be. Neither of those extend as low as these (but they weren’t designed to, either). This is my perspective of when I say HiFi value. I can only think of a few passive speakers that perform as well as this particular one and they are at least double the price. KEF Reference Meta 1 ($9k/pair) and JBL 4367 ($16k/pair, and huge). If you have any examples of bookshelf, sized speakers that perform as well as these do at the same price, or less than I am all ears. Seriously. Also, keep in mind of what I said in the title. A “HiFi bargain”. Many “HiFi“ speakers do not perform as well, but cost as much or more.

Bargain doesn't necessarily relate to a $ number in and if itself. You could get a pair of focal grand utopia for $4k and I'm sure $4k and bargain would mix then.

Baffle step.

@@ErinsAudioCorner Of course. Thank you 👍🏼

HiFi bargain and budget are not same.

I didn’t say “budget”. Understood. Like I replied to another commenter, I can’t think of any other passive speakers that have the frequency, bandwidth and load distortion that this speaker has. Certainly not in its size for sure. Now, if we want to talk about active, powered speakers, of course, that’s a different story. The issue with those for me is that everyone of them except for the Dutch and Dutch 8C use DSP limiting. I don’t really like that feature. As for tower speakers in this price range, I admittedly don’t have a lot of experience. I have measured some such as the JBL HDI-3800 and Revel 226Be. Neither of those extend as low as these (but they weren’t designed to, either). This is my perspective of when I say HiFi value. I can only think of a few passive speakers that perform as well as this particular one and they are at least double the price. KEF Reference Meta 1 ($9k/pair) and JBL 4367 ($16k/pair, and huge). If you have any examples of bookshelf, sized speakers that perform as well as these do at the same price, or less than I am all ears. Seriously. Also, keep in mind of what I said in the title. A “HiFi bargain”. Many “HiFi“ speakers do not perform as well, but cost as much or more.