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Classic BattleTech Battle Report | Draconis Combine vs Lyran Alliance | Post-Battle of Tukayyid Era
Рет қаралды 9,255
Жыл бұрынDespite the broader strategic alignment across the Great Houses, the border worlds are rarely spared from petty raids and skirmishes.
On the colony world of Corridan, the Lyran Alliance hides many trade secrets on water purification that would be a boon to any other world.
The Draconis Combine's 1st Altenmarkt militia - now devastated after the Clan Invasion - seeks to steal these secrets and regain honor for the dragon. Elements of Winfield's Regiment, equally beleaguered and scattered, have recently touched down to repair and rechange on Corridan, not expecting a head-on collision with the samurai of House Kurita…
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@zacheryredden5417 Жыл бұрын
I just can't imagine playing classic battletech without a grid. That's one of the biggest draws for me. Thanks for the batrep though!
@Kim_Jong-un1356 Жыл бұрын
Boys...where did you find the STL files for that smoking hot power plant? Asking for my bud Xi Jinping because he dropped his phone in his coffe cup and he can't ask himself.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Yo Kim! Say hi to Xi. You guys can fuel up with this dope reactor from Hardware Studios.
@gavincross2902 Жыл бұрын
🤣
@philippauli8162 Жыл бұрын
@gavincross2902 a true pot of hunny for Pooh Bear. Leaving aside the good spirited PRC mockery...damn it's nice to catch another Classic BT VIDEO from you lads. Keep up the great work!
@moragion Жыл бұрын
Great BatRep as always! Love to see Classic, and value the effort you are putting on it. Aaron with his perfect Hide The Pain Harold impersonation every time he added and saw he needed 11 to hit, and Dan still trying to make us believe that he had a great time. Emmys, here we go. Now on a more serious note, Classic with IS mechs usually is a matter of closing and brawling at very short distance. That's why the IS pulse lasers, which are terrible compared to other weapons at first glance, are a huge asset for IS mechs in Classic. They are suboptimal in range and damage/heat stats, but still worth it for that sweet -2. I would say that maybe you should try a Classic game but in IlClan era, with advanced weapons. I guess it will be quite different.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
I’d like to thank the academy…. 😁 stay tuned for moreeeee classic!
@justinnelson1839 Жыл бұрын
Just want to thank you guys again for all your efforts to share TT Destiny rules / tables / programs / RS etc... our group got to play test last weekend and other than the somewhat slow initiative system we all absolutely loved it. It's a super nice blend of Classic and AS with just the right dash of the TIC system from our days in the ole Battletech FASA simulators. Absolutely love it. You guys are amazing.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Thanks! We might do a another stint of Destiny soon!
@sebastiang.5032 Жыл бұрын
Destiny!!!! ❤
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
LOL you just appear in a puff of smoke anytime the sound “Dest-“ is uttered!!
@sebastiang.5032 Жыл бұрын
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming as all good things are supposed to be 😎
@jahwinston9327 Жыл бұрын
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming That would be glorious! Been wishing for more BT:D content!
@wombatgirl997 2 ай бұрын
Older video, but I love me some classic battletech, and the older eras are a favorite. As always I appreciate the detail put into making a story for the battle and picking a location for it.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming 2 ай бұрын
Thanks! I like to troll sarna.net for planets that “make sense” in the context of the story. So much info out there for BT!
@ngryleprechaun87 Жыл бұрын
Couple things might be contributing: 1) board size. A classic battletech 2 sheet hex board is about 32x46 hexes. Your guys are drowning in empty space there 2)hexless movement. If you're paying no mp cost for facing change, no mp cost for elevation, then you're easily getting tmm 1-3 points higher than on a comparable map sheet. That's why AS removes the AMM for walking 3) force composition. 3025 lights and mediums tend to dance around each other tossing 10 points of damage each round at units with 80-150 armor. Either go higher tech (pulse lasers, tarcomps) or bigger mechs (mostly 4/6 battleline mechs like marauder or thunderbolt) that trade speed for firepower. But also my group plays 3/4 by default.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Good points 1) its equivalent to 3x2 mapsheets… isnt that standard or do you go smaller? 2) We pay MP for all of these things. I would say the mapsheets’ elevations are way more volatile. Like level 0 to 2 to 1 to 3 in a matter of a couple hexes. 3) Yes. I think 4+ gunnery is untenable. I also think the RAW were “tuned” for a much smaller space per your first comment!
@ngryleprechaun87 Жыл бұрын
@DeathfromAboveWargaming It might look bigger than it feels in-game because im accustomed to seeing the hexes on there to provide perspective. The mapsheets definitely do have more unpredictable elevation, and probably denser wood terrain, which results in more blocked LOS before you start exchanging serious fire. On map sheets, I end a lot of movements either butted up against lvl 2, parked in partial cover, or on the far side of trees. Fewer shots at 11s and 12s because you just can't see each other.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
100% makes sense!!
@HouseMasterPoDing Жыл бұрын
Ah, the joys of Classic, where nobody can hit anyone ever! Great batrep as always though, gentlemen. Nice to see Aaron winning some initiative finally! Now all we need are some more Capellans, because you can never have enough Capellans in your batreps!
@DiggingForFacts Жыл бұрын
Loved seeing a bit of Classic and, as others have suggested, I think a certain measure of house rules (clarified beforehand so we all know what's up) would greatly benefit Classic on a table of this size. That said, the fate of the Quickdraw pretty much shows what the ultimate strength of Classic is: that Quickdraw now has a story with a capital S attached to it.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Haha that poor QD. And yes, we have one more “RAW” lined up then need to decide what we are doing next!
@seanmaclean1341 Жыл бұрын
These are still a blast, even if you have to be literally 3 inches in front of eachother to hit. Speaking of which, I did some digging into Strategic Ops and found it suggests 1 hex = 2 inches for measurement, with the option of 1 = 1 if you're playing on a small table. Makes me think that the original measurement suggestion might help engagements not need to get into the "see the whites of their eyes" range before anything could remotely hit.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
We usually halve the mods but I could be convinced to try this as well!
@porthosduvallon5301 Жыл бұрын
Circling back after watching on my lunch break. Great batrep! My brother and I play Classic and I think I may want to try the halving of range modifiers like you suggest. Playing with them normal/no house rules, you really have to be methodical and purposeful in your positioning for units geared towards long range fire support to factor in the stiff range modifiers
@laserskeleton1980 5 ай бұрын
Played Battletech once in 1992 and picked it up again this month. Wild to me that content this good exists!
@DeathfromAboveWargaming 5 ай бұрын
Thanks for the comment! Welcome back to BattleTech and welcome to the channel!
@wombatgirl997 2 ай бұрын
It was a big hit in college for me, around 2010. We had about 6 of us who all picked a mech and went to town. Sometimes team, mostly just free for all.
@obamabiden Жыл бұрын
That shot of the board at the begginning was just *chef's kiss*
@jackrogers5712 Жыл бұрын
Sitting here cackling like a lunatic at the end of round 4 where almost nothing has happened. Love your content and your changes to the game for exactly this reason! Thanks for the Classic videos.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
❤️ thank you for getting it and watching!!!
@scottcrompton6931 Жыл бұрын
Haha! The minute 36:00 through 36:34 bit is my favorite! I can understand how the granularity of Classic is attractive for some, but I'm so glad for AS - I'd happily forgotten about the movement penalty. WTF. Anyway - WOO Dan! Fist-bump! Re-use that bubblewrap! This is the way. 😀 Complete agreement. As usual, AWESOME table and minis, fellas - that new-model Quickdraw was a revelation for me, I only know the dome-head version.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching!! Can’t wait for them new minis!
@alphawolf2993 10 ай бұрын
the unit status screen you did is SO COOL
@DeathfromAboveWargaming 10 ай бұрын
Thanks!
@porthosduvallon5301 Жыл бұрын
H*ll yeah! Just in time for my lunch break!
@strcmdrbookwyrm Жыл бұрын
I think the 0-2-4 range modifiers were/are designed around a couple different things with the goal of making the game feel larger. Mainly I feel it's designed around the hexgrids the game comes with, as even with two maps I find the play area still feels very small. Having such drastic range modifiers makes the long range shots feel like your shooting from further away on the small boards. The other big defense I have for having such high modifiers is that it makes Pulse Lasers more impactful. Their -2 to-hit modifier basically gives them a extended short range bracket. It makes the loss of range feel like less of a downside, especially when you can land a few hits that you wouldn't have with a standard laser of the same type.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Right - very good call out on the pulse. If range mods got adjusted, those other mods probably would need a tweak also!
@gavincross2902 Жыл бұрын
Great video. Did NOT show up in my feed. Had to go find this. YT screwing us over! :(
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
As always. I wonder why.
@scurige 11 ай бұрын
3 thoughts/opinions: 1) Map/building scale is 1:1200, mech scale ~1:300; so the mech takes up 1/16th the area of a hex, or 1/64th the volume of its game piece. So no, it shouldn't block line of sight. You'd need quarter size mechs or quadrupled distances to make visual sense. Realistic weapon distances would be unplayable. 2) Stabilizers reduce the effect of moving over rough terrain on aiming; it's still harder to hit something when moving than when stationary. Stabilized tanks still prefer to fire from stationary. 3) A turn is a window of time, and the hex/piece is its location during that time window; otherwise the turn structure, initiative and simultaneous damage resolution doesn't make sense. You'd need a mechanic to track projectile flight time, and not hitting until a later turn.
@wombatgirl997 2 ай бұрын
There is a game called "Infinity" that does this pretty well. It doesn't have a standard turn structure. There is an "active player" who moves a unit, and if that unit is visible at any time during its movement the other player can declare they are shooting at it.
@scurige 2 ай бұрын
@@wombatgirl997 yeah, I have infinity, they're nice rules. I always wonder how many people are misplaying that rule.
@HotelCharliHill Жыл бұрын
Oh baby, double-header.... Shazam 2: Fury of the Gods, and THIS BEAUTY RIGHT HERE - CLASSIC BATTLETECH!!!
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
I literally just watched Shazam 2 with my kids. I’m pretty easy to please but I thought it was fantastic.
@HotelCharliHill Жыл бұрын
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming Fun! I am glad you guys enjoyed it :) I only got halfway through cause it was so late when I started watching it. But yeah, fun so far. And when are you gonna take us down memory road and look at your entire collection of mechs? Hear about your faves and least faves? maybe model comparisons with catalyst? :D Great vid by the way!
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Haha that would be a lot of minis but it could happen!
@HotelCharliHill Жыл бұрын
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming wow... that was an awesome game!
@HotelCharliHill Жыл бұрын
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming no doubt. i myself have nearly all the catalyst and have begun commissioning printings. i have 15 iwm... maybe one day i'll return for the sculpts that actually look good. many sadly don't
@sebastiang.5032 Жыл бұрын
"It's Center Torso..." "COOL!" 🤣🤣🤣
@andreassweet1994 Жыл бұрын
Love the Lyran paint job.
@shaneflickinger Жыл бұрын
I think if you are going to play RAW on a giant, hexless terrain board you need to be using miniatures rules that double (or maybe triple?) things like ranges and movement. Also, it's classic with IS mechs which just means you push everything towards the center of the table and start blasting. Still a good battle report though. Thanks guys.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching Shane!
@Ichaerus Жыл бұрын
Just got back from donating plasma, to a notification that a new BatRep has come online. OH BOY! Best day of the week! It's DFAWargaming Wednesday! FOR THE DRAGON!!!
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Does donating plasma increase the targets heat?
@Ichaerus Жыл бұрын
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming It can...But I have found that when I donate plasma, I get some very nice coolant flushes in exchange. 😁
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
LOL there are so many jokes in there …
@steffangordon6444 Жыл бұрын
My table has experimented with using a D12 for to-hit rolls to see how we liked the flatter probability curve. What we’ve settled on is 2D6 for target numbers up to 8 and a D12 for 9 and above (though 8 and above would work too, since the odds are the same there). We like that it makes the tough shots easier, keeps TN 7+ at better than 50%, and doesn’t require tinkering to keep Mechs from falling too often with a D12.
@derekburge5294 Жыл бұрын
Love the intensity you guys bring to the table.
@spamuraigranatabru1149 Жыл бұрын
*SO MANY COMBAT VEHICLE SO MANY COMBAT VEHICLE SO MANY COMBAT VEHICLES IT MAKES ME HAPPY!!!!!!*
@Kaiju-Driver Жыл бұрын
Been reviewing this alot, always fun to watch.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching!
@sawyermongrel 8 ай бұрын
really enjoy these reports thanks
@theredbeardbard Жыл бұрын
Also, really diggin' the soundtrack selections in this batrep. That map layout is bangin'!
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Thank you! You can listen to the DFA soundtracks on amazon, spotify, etc.!
@NathanPops Жыл бұрын
The production value on this show is mind boggling. My nephews and I still use a lot of your modified battletech rules.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Very cool to hear - we need to bring those rules back!! And thanks for the kind words on the production!
@NathanPops Жыл бұрын
I learned how to play watching your old videos and I'll be honest your rules are the best way to play battletech in my opinion.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Why thank you! You mean the DFA Classic house rules, or Destiny?
@NathanPops Жыл бұрын
Classic house rules. Pilot die and cluster confirm save so much time.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
*chef’s kiss*
@SalamiTactical Жыл бұрын
At my LGS we typically play with 3/4 mechwarriors for free, using the base battlevalue when doing succession wars thru clan invasion era. (ive done 4/5 at civil war era with no real issue). As others have said, the issue might be because you guys play hexless, so ranges are harder to tell during movement phase. With hexes, its much easier to look and go "Ok if i go up one more space to this spot, ill be in short range for most of this mechs weapons". Obviously wouldn't expect you guys to start playing with hex maps, but yeah you probably need some adjustment to compensate for having no grid. Stuff others have said about changing the scale of ranges/movement, or reducing range modifiers seem totally reasonable to makeup for the hexless maps. Dont give up on classic yet!
@jahwinston9327 Жыл бұрын
Aaron wins initiative for once... "You got cheater dice" 🤣 love it!!
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Typical haha
@smmclaug75 Жыл бұрын
I always halve range mods as suggested by the DFA House Rules. (I also halve the Pulse weapon bonus to balance that out, but apply that bonus to *all* burst weaponry). Just about anything we can do to speed up play without breaking something, we do.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
I subscribe to this philosophy!
@andremoya6989 Жыл бұрын
This was awesome! I really appreciate the production quality and the top notch commentary
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
I appreciate you!
@GabrielGarcia-cq9ls Жыл бұрын
If Im playing classic, which we are doing on a merc. campaign right now with five friends, its MegaMek all the way. Its so much easier for getting all the modifiers right and the dice rolls, like SRM's of which i think you hit dan with 7 and the seventh caused an additional critical roll. but adding all the pilot abilities and quirks for the mechs and edge and all the other things that make Classic amazing. Table top classic is progressively more difficult with more units. Alpha Strike is amazing for combined arms like this or Megamek for classic combined arms.
@akdustable 9 ай бұрын
On the topic of why units don’t provide cover it’s a matter of scale. The mech you see is scaled up to fit the hex, if they were true to how large a hex is supposed to be they would be tiny.
@glakthag Ай бұрын
Would love to see more classic with the pilot die. I really like your classic house rules.
@tmiles7876 Жыл бұрын
The battlefield support rules seem to have made tanks glass cannons that hurt if they can ever hit. I will not be using them personally.
@christopherhughes9892 Жыл бұрын
Great video, once again! Really enjoy the new studio. Also, I'll be the first to admit that I voted classic... but RAW? RAW? Why would you do that to yourself?! 😂
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
I am making a statement! LOL
@markbrown8154 Жыл бұрын
Love the new split screen format. As a more dedicated Alpha Strike player, and having just recently played two games of Classic, I wholeheartedly agree about how hard it is to hit. I will never knock Classic, but give me AS any day. Also, it's Way faster.
@BazztheBazz Жыл бұрын
Dropping the Attack Movement Modifiers down by one apiece helps a lot. I'm surprised you guys didn't implement that, since that was a house rule I picked up from you.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
We are playing it RAW here 😁 but will likely be implementing house rules again in the nearish future. Definitely before 2025.
@madcapmiguel5071 Жыл бұрын
I primarily play alpha strike, but games of classic are entertaining to watch. Keep them both coming.
@chrisnickell2525 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for playing Classic. I love it. The vehicles i think need to roll per grouping to reduce the 1 roll for massive damage. Also i do like the 0/1/2 for range modifiers but pulse lasers have to be adjusted to a -1 to compensate. Again Thanks for the classic game!
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching!
@oleksaderzybis9052 Жыл бұрын
I would say, it's much more OK that buildings block LOS on hexmap, for one hex is 30m and they are not just single building, but a terrain feature. Perhaps, couple of buildings, or even giant building. And mechs are totally not 30m wide. Though a video "wide Urbie walks" would be a lol. Also, in TacOps (p. 79) you could find Missed Shots rule, which allows you to accidentally hit mech 'tween shooter and a target, though if the game is 12+ mechs -- it could be time consuming. And yeah, the assets having 5-6 skill makes 'em such a random thing, you definitely can't rely on.
@gregmichaud7314 Жыл бұрын
Great report guys!!!. Those dice rolls were awful. So vehicles start at a 6 now?, that is crazy. Keep those reports coming and as always an amazing table and paint jobs
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Yah I think 6 is base. It sort of “builds in” the attacker mod, but it is still a very tall order to hit!
@jwitham30 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for another great battle report. I would love to see a follow up game (Reprisal the Lyran Alliance forces?) where you house-rule the range modifiers as you talked about, and then you can give us your thoughts on how that worked.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
I will say Classic is a very different animal with those optional & house rules!
@Seeric85 Жыл бұрын
I am new to to actually playing BT on the tabletop, even though I was a fan of Battletech since I played MW4 and read most of the novels back in high school. Playing in my first campaign that is set in the IlClan era (three way 1st Falcon Sentinels vs 21st Centauri Lancers vs 17th Arcturan Guard) I can't relate to the to-hit modifier issue since pilots are veteran/elite and are in some cases cruising around with clan pulse lasers + targeting computer. Even if you don't have those kinds of gadgets, landing a shot at long range with a Nightstar across the map doesn't seem to crazy if you have Shooting 2 and remain stationary. Shooting a heavy or medium with TMM of 2 means 8s to hit, very doable. Put him in a forest or behind cover and you have a 9, challenging but not crazy.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
MW4 was my jam - awesome game 💔 I think either playing with elites or tweaking the mods is huge and a must do!
@jessepunch8945 Жыл бұрын
I love the use of Vehicles, even with the battlefield support rules. Top notch quality as always. Two requests id like to make 1. Please expand the ranges of weapons if doing classic on a 4x4, 2. Make the year the game is taking place in more obvious, maybe during the mech showcase, have a little stamp in the corner that says 3025/3058 etc whatever year you chose
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
The year is in the mission briefing!
@maxparece4155 Жыл бұрын
Speaking on the indirect fire situation, when I play I always play with “Always a Chance rules” as we call them. Essentially no to-hit can be higher than 12 or lower than 2. Prevents no fire situations and helps spammy short range weapons/indirect fire weapons. Those indirect rules are pretty weird honestly, and I just don’t like them. Over complicated for just no reason. Great battle report as always.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Thanks! I think I agree with you!
@PRC533 Жыл бұрын
Yeah IDF could be massively simplified by just using all the normal shooting rules for firing unit and target except that line of sight can be drawn from another unit. Just give it a flat +1 modifier and call it a day. No need to involve the speed and range of the spotting unit.
@brianhenry152 Жыл бұрын
RAW Classic battletech really is punishing on the long range firefights. Seems like whenever I play it ends up as a close range brawl, so I am echoing a lot of folks here about the range mods being halved to speed up things and make those longer range weapons more viable. Nice to see Aaron winning initiative though!
@colbyboucher6391 Жыл бұрын
TBF as you move forward in the timeline everyone gets muuuuch more accurate. Even in the Civil War era, a C3 sniper sitting on a ridge can be terrifying.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
I think that is true in theory but less so in practice… aside from the goofy WOB mechs where everything has c3… have you ever played a c3 lance? They stink. You can gimp them 100 different ways and they cost a fortune so are often outmatched. ECM, killing the C3M, nuking the C3S that tries to get too close… its so situational. As for pulse lasers, the IS ones suck. A MPLas at 6 hexes at long range hits at at +2 c/o the -2 mod… but a regular old MLas hits at +2 as well because its already in medium range. Then factor in stealth armor, everyone’s speed goes up c/o better engines/MASC/superchargers… at best its a wash and in reality I think it actually gets worse. Just debating my view on the world… I don’t think it’s always as good as it looks on paper.
@kylejohannessen7830 Жыл бұрын
Gotta cut those range modifiers in half. It's the best house rule to play with and makes long range engagements viable!
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
100% we promised we’d run a few games RAW, but I agree with you!!
@kylejohannessen7830 Жыл бұрын
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming that makes sense! My gaming group plays with most of your house rules, they're great! We played a clan invasion game last week and even with the modifiers changed, you still whiff a lot. Speeds up a long game and makes those LRM carriers scary.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Love this!! The “best” experience I have had is with the 1/2/3 mods and gunnery 1-3 pilots. I would bet if you totally ditched the mods for walk/run you could actually play with worse gunners.
@johnbutt7264 Жыл бұрын
Off topic, love the new studio miss the minis in the background. Check out the “Atlantic Oskar 540 media storage wall mounted cabinet”. I use one to display my minis. Love it
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
We have the minis on shelves, to either side. Just not on screen usually but you can typically catch them in reviews and whatnot.
@bartekzx88 Жыл бұрын
Love me some classic. Great stuff as always!
@misterbeeps Жыл бұрын
This game is just a setup match for the ultimate the Dan redemption (revenge) arc.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
It could happen!!
@chriscoffee2268 Жыл бұрын
Your maps always look awesome
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
You are too kind. Thanks!! 🙂
@youtmeme Жыл бұрын
awesome gaming gentlemen! enjoyed it thoroughly! everything u hated about it, I love!!😊😁😜 thank you!!🙂👏🙌👍
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Haha your happiness is why we endure the pain 😆
@catzo_5762 Жыл бұрын
Loving the return to Classic BT, I haven't tried the Battlefield support rules myself, but they look like they streamline the vehicles a bit!
@colbyboucher6391 Жыл бұрын
My beef with the new vehicle rules is that Catalyst has expressed this argument that since mechs are the start of the show, everything else needs to be much weaker. I get where they're coming from but... eh.
@shawnlewis1867 Жыл бұрын
The secret is ,,, change the gunnery to 2. It seems a difficult thing for most BT players to understand. It can save some time and will still end up somewhat hard to hit. Try it !
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
We usually do (2s and 3s) this AND change the range mods!
@colbyboucher6391 Жыл бұрын
Damn that terrain is lookin' nice
@jahwinston9327 Жыл бұрын
Dan's beard is looking real fresh 🔥🔥
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
LOL love it. 😂
@sebastiang.5032 Жыл бұрын
Dan is cool, it must be amazing to have him a d his positivity as a co-player.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Dan is a fan fav.
@erikthorup4336 Жыл бұрын
You should be able to use jump jets while prone . A very in accurant last ditch ramming attack.
@sempermilites87 Жыл бұрын
More Classic! Let's go!
@NRSGuardian 10 ай бұрын
The thing about the range modifiers in Classic is that it incentivizes you to close the range, but also allows long-range Mechs to have a distinct advantage via their range brackets so that they are at short range while a short range Mech is at medium or long range, and it encourages players to set up advantageous situations using the range brackets where you are shooting at medium or short range while your opponent is shooting back at long or medium range. If you flatten the range modifiers it takes away some of that aspect of Battletech. Also, there is no real reason to make such a change when all you and your opponent need to do is agree to use skill 2 or 3 pilots rather than skill 3 or 4 pilots. By increasing your pilots' skills you functionally do the same thing as reducing range penalties.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming 10 ай бұрын
Right - this is a mostly fair comment 😜 I don’t think flattening the brackets is bad - al a AS or Override - as long as the root classic weapon ranges play into the mods. I do like how it is done in Destiny/Override. But your point on just lowering the gunnery is 10000% on point. Also ditching the attacker mod is a functional equivalent that I have seen in action and am tempted to try.
@marvinjohnson2488 Жыл бұрын
I much enjoyed you guys going back to classic, but I am feeling more love for Alpha strike. I still love Destiny because it gives me the feeling of classic but with the speed more like alpha strike. Still enjoyed this battle though. Keep them coming!
@matthewmarek1467 Жыл бұрын
Love Classic but I'm waiting for the return of your house rules. Also, the split screen is disorientating for getting a good read on the map. Is there any way to mount a camera high behind each player and switch for whoever is shooting?
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
That’s what the overhead and two side cams are for!
@corrinald2971 Жыл бұрын
Classic Battletech plays best with gunnery skills at 3 or below, in my opinion. 4 makes long range fire and hitting fast targets difficult. 5+ gunnery skill is basically unplayable. The battlefield support rules for vehicles are weird. I will have to read up on them
@bakuchidancer 10 ай бұрын
Or it makes game to just long range duel roll dice no manouver. You could instead move up closer rather than shoot from far without moving
@dylanperkins7939 Жыл бұрын
I dont think the LOS thing has anything to do with mechs being in motion. It has to do with each hex representing 30 metres. No mech is that wide, therefore it does not take up that entire hex. For the same reason, friendlies can move through each other. However, a mech can pretty reliably block another mech from moving past it in a 30 metre area, which is why you can't move through enemies. Bringing the game to a 3d-terrain table, rather than being based on hexes, kinda messes with that. You're trying to use True LOS rules on a game that was never intended to use them. (That being said, LOS rules in BT are really wonky, and when I play Megamek I always have to experiment to see where I can and cannot see things from/to.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Good points!
@DevianID Жыл бұрын
I tried to get some changes with the beta BSP stuff feedback. On the topic of IDF, 6 (base 4+2 run for asset) +1 (IDF) +4 (long range) puts you at 11s to start, plus target evasion. So its too high, but only because the IDF unit was adding its run(edit, in the v2 rules you cant move and shoot IDF so ignore this). If the base hit with a proper infantry spotter was 9 (same as above but without the +2 from running) like normal rules, IDF units staying still behind a hill would be a great counter at long range to slow things trying to camp, as taking IDF on 9s will eventually stack crippling hits if the slow target never leaves their sniper hill. Edit: You guys caught it in the v2 rules later in the video, so the Manticore should not (could not actually) have moved, but the veteran asset would have needed 8s base with that long range IDF attack, plus target evasion, so it would have been able to shoot at decent numbers.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Yah - wouldn’t it be 9s though? 5 base + 4 range?
@DevianID Жыл бұрын
@@DeathfromAboveWargamingI thought in the v2 rules since you are stationary the skill goes down 2 points for IDF as there is no run movement penalty, but the beta rules are wonky so maybe I misinterpreted it. I thought it was 3 (skill 5 -2 for no run) +4 long range +1 idf.
@MassWasTaken Жыл бұрын
I'm new to BT, how is movement being handled on a hexless map?
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
1” = 1 hex. Still pay for changing facing as usual. Same deal moving up/down hills, etc.
@bogohothegrand241 Жыл бұрын
Is this a new sound track? When is this releasing? Some real tiberian suns vibes.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
All of these songs are out - some might be from the MW2 soundtrack.
@omegavulture8379 Жыл бұрын
Ah, classic and snacks. This is the way.
@odstbane Жыл бұрын
I really love the force compositions here, let's see more! (just without the support rules lol) I think as soon as you go hexless, units need to block line of sight. Hexes representing 30m makes sense that units don't block. I'm really not a fan of the new support rules. It's like putting the bad parts of alpha strike into classic and I just don't think it works. A manticore getting smoked by 2 volleys from a condor is just silly And yeah 4/5 pilots basically need to get into knife range or use clan tech to get good hit numbers. I also prefer playing that you don't have to declare everything before shooting. it just speeds the game up so much more it's worth any bit of "realism" you lose
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
I like all of this!
@rub-al-khali4265 Жыл бұрын
Question, what's the square footage for the board? What's standard for Alpha strike?
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
We play on a 4x4 mat. AS players typically do either 4x4 or 6x4 depending, though keep in mind AS (by the book) is 2:1 scaling vs Classic.
@rub-al-khali4265 Жыл бұрын
@DeathfromAboveWargaming thank you for the information. I've been wanting to scratch build my owe terrain for BT for sometime.
@fabfabby Жыл бұрын
What vehicle rules are you playing with? They don't seem to be FASA era rules from what I recall, and do not line up with how I'm understanding whats written in the Fanpro era rulebook Total Warfare #35101 after it had been rebranded Classic Battletech. Have they revised the rules that much?
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
These are the new Battlefield Support rules that are currently in Beta. They will be released with the Mercs kickstarter
@fabfabby Жыл бұрын
Interesting. Not that anyone cares what some random dude online thinks about them, while I can see the utility of them when you are running a full game on simplified rules, I'm not a fan when mixed with normal 'Mech rules. Tanks are already pretty fragile even under the normal rules. From my admittedly limited exposure to these rules, they feel like they are made out of papier-mache.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
I care! And yes, I think the intention is to make them more like “minions” that are crushed under foot al a the video games, and less of a something to really be reckoned with. I see both sides, as incorporating full blown combined arms in Classic can be a little overwhelming unless youve done it a few times.
@fabfabby Жыл бұрын
Agreed. Full combined arms in Classic is a bear. I've done combined 'Mechs, ProtoMechs, Tanks, VTOLs, Battle Armor, and Infantry in MegaMek, but I've never mixed more than 'Mechs, ProtoMechs, and Tanks in a live game.
@Wildcat144 Жыл бұрын
So noticing something. I don't like those rules for how "Battlefield Support" works. Combat vehicles and such were fine in total warfare, and they didn't need to be nerfed to all hell. Those awful skills and the awful stats they have are probably why they're missing so much. As well, typically I play 4/5 Gunnery/Piloting and we have our first kill around turn 4 to 5. Granted, we play more narratively. Each mech played like a pilot who is actually in battle and knows their mech is rarer than them. So we tend to have more retreats than kills. But that's more to lore than anything.
@Linkous12 Жыл бұрын
Manticores FTW.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
One of my favs!
@omegavulture8379 Жыл бұрын
You should just use the tanks and VTOLs normally, I myself am not not liking the new asset rules in my games. I’ll be sticking with getting the vehicles their own datasheets and playing them the classic way.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Yah its a pros/cons ruleset - you can very easily incorporate things but it just does not seemed balanced from all aspects.
@DevianID Жыл бұрын
At 36:20, right when you said 'leave it in the comments...' lol. At skill 5, +3 for the TMM, 8s were needed and Dan rolled an 8, but you thought you needed 10s. So you DID hit, just did the math (5+3=10s needed) wrong cause im assuming you put in the +2 from medium range by habit from alpha strike instead of the +0 from short range.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Thanks! I need to review the footage (its been a while since we played this one)… weren’t we at med range??
@DevianID Жыл бұрын
@@DeathfromAboveWargamingthe valk was at med range on the medium laser but the 2 manticores were in short, just thought everything needed 10s from how it looked.
@Geeko170 Жыл бұрын
So what size game was this?
@misterbeeps Жыл бұрын
4500-ish.
@Geeko170 Жыл бұрын
@@misterbeeps that is tiny. I have some single clan mechs that cost more than that.
@CodenameVillain 11 ай бұрын
i have a very dumb question: how do you play classic without a hexmap?
@wombatgirl997 2 ай бұрын
One inch is one hex. You kind of have to play it by ear with the facing. It is talked about some in the Total War rulebook a bit.
@gavincross2902 Жыл бұрын
Regarding vehicles and classic.... Yes, vehicles are harder to hit with, probably due to lesser technologies and definitely a general lower level of skills. I don't have a clue what rules you are using that determines "destroyed" thresholds....
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
These are the new “beta” Battlefield Support Rules that will come out in the new Mercs box!
@gavincross2902 Жыл бұрын
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming Don't like these new rules at all. Love your work fellas!
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
They are growing on me - it’s very easy to integrate vehicles and infantry as “canon fodder” minions to add flavor to the game… but I think the math backing it up isn’t 100% balanced necessarily.
@matthewbirdsall9518 Жыл бұрын
Combined Arms + Classic = GTFO! Putting my money on Winfield's Regiment...let's see how this plays out!
@theredbeardbard Жыл бұрын
Some Dans are longer than others... *sorry children*
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
“The Longest Dan” coming to theaters in 2025
@Krieger2214 Жыл бұрын
Definitely not a fan of these simplified vehicle rules, makes them almost useless . As for how I handle playing Classic RAW, hexmaps. Classic is 100% intended to be played on the hex maps and really doesn’t work great off of them.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
I wouldn’t say 100%. Maybe 80.667%. We’ve had a lot of fun on non-hexmaps with a set if optional rules (like extreme range and the long range targeting optionals) … but I largely agree it was designed to be a “board game” on a mapsheet or two!
@HotelCharliHill Жыл бұрын
so much to unpack and comment on (despite it being a great video), but for the sake of time re: ranges, on a hex map, everything is so close together. You guys are so far away from each other (but it doesn't look like it because your scale is 'as seen' and buildings and terrain match the mechs, whereas on a hex map the mech models are merely a representation of a mech roughly a third the size within the 30m wide hex). the ranges work pretty good with a hex map, not so great on your gorgeous terrain. Tripling all the ranges would work well i think. hex maps are 1:1000 i think while your map would be 1:300 i believe (i looked this up recently because i'm considering having a friend print me mechs that are a third the size, then make 3d hex map terrain with LOS incorporated).
@cargo_vroom9729 Жыл бұрын
What even are these vehicle rules? Looks how they massacred my boys. Who at CGL hates tanks? The Battlefield Support rules don't look bad in isolation, but it feels very weird to bolt a modern streamlined wargame ruleset onto the side of Battletech...I'd be more interested standalone.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Right - I think they look good on paper. Not blown away with them in practice.
@cargo_vroom9729 Жыл бұрын
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming I've read the beta test doc now, and I question the concept. Vehicles are already simpler to run than mechs for the most part. They have a couple additional rules like motive crits. But if the goal was to streamline, they could have just streamlined those and kept the normal RS. It might actually have been good for the game overall. There's also a bit of language about it being for people who either want weaker vehicles because they don't like them being able to rival mechs, or not wanting to take any focus away from mechs. I know this kind of person. They don't use vehicles period. I use tanks in BT because I like tanks, and their status in universe of underdogs that can actually win speaks to me. I never looked for a simpler worse way to use them. I get the idea of abstracting support assets for aerospace strafes or off board arty. Where it's actually a lot of rules and sheets and even additional maps for things that won't even be on the map. But tanks are already simpler than mechs and are on the board right next to them. They aren't "Support" in that sense.
@matthewfullmer3035 Жыл бұрын
"How does anyone play this game with RAW mods? You can't hit anything!" This is not a fair comparison. You portray this as an indictment on a single change. But that is untrue. You are using *MUCH* worse gunnery than you normally do. And you are using stock mods. And playing without long-range friendly house rules. And playing without any accuracy-boosting tech. This is not an even remotely controlled experiment. And the point about gunnery 5 being basically the same as 4. Come now. You know as well as anyone that G3 vs G4 is a big, non-linear, difference. Likewise 2 vs 3. 4 vs 5 is horrendous for the bell curve.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Allow me to debate you here 😆 I love your use of the word experiment because that is exactly what this was (and will continue for one more batrep). I also agree this is not how we usually play Classic (with a boatload of house and optional rules). But I’d assert its a perfectly controlled experiment. It’s how the rules are written in the book, out of the box. This is the “control”. In fact this reinforces *why* we use all those house/optional rules. The box doesnt have house rules or recommendations on 2 gunnery. There aren’t even optional rules to change the range mods (that is only an official option in AS). Sure, you can “make it your own” and change the numbers and mods… but that’s not RAW! And in that regard, I don’t think my comments on hitting with the RAW mods are wrong or unfair at all!
@matthewfullmer3035 Жыл бұрын
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming Oh, please do debate away! All of my criticisms, here and prior, are meant in the vein of a scientific/constructive discourse. A good "argument" about an interesting topic is one of my favorite past times. I think we are using different definitions for "experiment" here. While you never explicitly said this (so feel free to object to this characterization), I got the distinct impression that you blamed never hitting, compared to your usual Alpha Strike/Destiny/even CBT as being the fault of the range mods. In order for an experiment to prove that a given variable is responsible for an effect, one needs to fix all (or as many as practicable) other variables in place and change that one when testing (I am using the definition for a scientist because, well, day job. And it is a controlled definition not open to too much goal post shifting.). In DFA plays CBT, that would mean keeping 1) usual gunnery skills, 2) usual tech levels / accuracy-boosting weapons, 3) long-range friendly and accuracy boosting house rules, and 4) not include testing of (almost) complete unknown rules at the same time. Do that, and you can then blame changes in hit rates (and game enjoyment, etc) on the range mods. But the way this game was structured, one can blame all of those factors (and I do blame 1-3 a lot). You make a fair point that you are comparing AS/Destiny/DFA CBT to RAW CBT. That is a fair comparison. The issue is where you then blame the range mods as if that is the only difference between RAW CBT and the rest.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Right - this was not a comparo across systems per se, but I can see how we may be spoiled by a lot of time with the other systems!
@Ben-cj4vx Жыл бұрын
P R O M O S M 💥
@obsidiananubis1017 Жыл бұрын
I love classic and I love your channel, but listening to you complain about classic throughout the video is a bummer. It sounds like you might want to try some house rules, fire for effect etc.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
To be clear, we are complaining about RAW Classic - we have done a ton of campaigns and batreps with (controversial) use of house and optional rules… but this was an experiment in doing it by the book. Imagine how a brand new player to BT might react? I think the subtext here is that Classic needs a little modernization by the book.
@lordmalal Жыл бұрын
@@DeathfromAboveWargamingas a newish player (a little over 1 year playing) I do not agree. The stable ruleset is a big selling point of BT for me, compared to certain other tabletop games that feel the need to reinvent the game every three years (and often for the worse). Although admittedly I play with smaller tables and lower skill pilots.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
I think there is a fair middle ground between “new codex every year” that makes models obsolete, and “using the same mechanics since before personal computers existed”. But that is just my opinion on it!
@Whitewing89 Жыл бұрын
I don't think i like these new vehicles rules
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
I want to like them! I think the insta-kill on a bad roll can make it very boom or bust. Also the damage on some of them…
@robkitchen5344 Жыл бұрын
Spotter can't move....assign task to hidden infantry. ..no mech warrior is going to stand still with a mech generally handed down from parent to child for hundreds of years... especially a light mech without armor to withstand more then a large laser hit ... Replacement of the mech is a massive amount of C-bills. Even repair is quite a cost without a lot of spare parts... As for difficulty hitting targets .. I never play with anything more then 3/3 veteran mech warrior or vehicle crews .. your running around doing nothing much but wasting a few hours of everyone time.... ... No funin that even if everyone is loaded up on consumables.... Games are supposed to be entertaining..... Feebleness is rarely fun...5 gunner and pilot skills equal feebleness
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Жыл бұрын
Wouldn’t you agree the rules in the book should match what you’re saying?
@sebastiang.5032 Жыл бұрын
👍A new BatRep! 👍 Still no BT:Destiny. 😳🪓😁
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