Classroom Aid - Equivalence Principle xx

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David Butler

David Butler

8 жыл бұрын

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@martijn130370
@martijn130370 4 жыл бұрын
Fantastic explanation with exactly the visuals I was looking for! Thanks so much David!
@walterbrownstone8017
@walterbrownstone8017 Жыл бұрын
Acceleration is equivalent to acceleration. Wow brilliant, Einstein.
@ASCENSiON1989
@ASCENSiON1989 6 жыл бұрын
0:44 you meant to say here constant acceleration.
@2amsamwich
@2amsamwich 4 жыл бұрын
thank you
@ThomasJr
@ThomasJr 3 жыл бұрын
he could've said accelerating at a constant rate.
@AlpharderCodes
@AlpharderCodes 6 жыл бұрын
Thank you, excellent and helpful visualisation! Einstein was surely genius cuz its VERY counterintuitive.
@phenomenalphysics3548
@phenomenalphysics3548 5 жыл бұрын
thank you thank you so much!❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ I see no other video explaining this chapter of Einstein special and general theory of relativity! thank you it's been a great favour!❤️
@howfarawayisit
@howfarawayisit 5 жыл бұрын
Thank you for all your kind comments.
@phenomenalphysics3548
@phenomenalphysics3548 5 жыл бұрын
@@howfarawayisit Anytime I love people who love physics btw!( because they can clear my doubt understand nothing out of Physics) Your one of them!❤️
@davidmudry5622
@davidmudry5622 Жыл бұрын
@@howfarawayisit If the only force is from below then only by removing the strength of force in a structure can cause it to completely collapse in acceleration from the top down...9/11?
@ThomasJr
@ThomasJr 3 жыл бұрын
I have this question. Relative to the outside observer, all remains the same, the light path is a straight line. From the point of view of the guy inside the elevator, that's when strange things happen, because as crazy as it seems the photon is not dragged up like the rest of the things inside the elevator. Why is that? Since the photon seems to make a curve inside the elevator per the observer in the elevator, its trajectory is longer than when the elevator is at rest.
@atheistaetherist2747
@atheistaetherist2747 3 жыл бұрын
Re Einstein’s silly elevator/chest gedanken for supposed equivalence. 1. Hanging wts will hang parallel in accel, but will converge if in gravity. 2. Clocks will tick at same rate in accel, but will tick differently if at different altitudes if in gravity. 3. Photons crossing the room will all remain horizontal in accel, even tho the ray of light curves down, but photons will not remain horizontal in gravity, they will have a slope parallel to the curved traject if in gravity. Re 3. Einstein’s elevator/chest gedanken for the equivalence of a curving ray of light in accel & in gravity ignores this lack of equivalence. If we apply Einstein’s gedanken to the bending of light passing a star then no photon passing a star would ever fall below the mid-line of the star. Hence there would never be a focus, hence there could never be an einstein ring, or even a part-ring. Every one of Einstein’s gedankens is wrong. His prediction of the doubled bending of light passing the Sun is a lucky guess. Likewise his prediction of rings. Likewise his prediction of Shapiro Delay. None of these are a legitimate prediction of any of his gedankens. Re 2. I should add that all kinds of clocks must be affected differently by altitude & by velocity. Tests show that some atomic clocks behave nearnuff as per GTR. But we will find that GTR does not apply for most kinds of clocks, eg tuning fork & balance wheel clocks.
@alisarpmestcioglu711
@alisarpmestcioglu711 2 жыл бұрын
oh ser you should probably have 100 times the sum of both our bits of knowledge to make such claims. Regardless I am almost 100% sure you would not make such claims if you had the knowledge.
@gromajor
@gromajor 3 жыл бұрын
excellent explanation. congrats. 👍 it helps vizualize a lot.
@unima4624
@unima4624 4 жыл бұрын
Very clear explanation, thank you!
@ManojKumar-ii4yd
@ManojKumar-ii4yd 3 жыл бұрын
In Gravity for instance ur hands will feel the force, but not in case of the Elevator acceleration. For human body they surely are different. There will be more pain in joints in case of acclerating Elevator....i think.
@tomscott3
@tomscott3 4 жыл бұрын
excellent. at 3:08, it might have been clearer if "outside" was inserted under the wording of both frames on the right.
@synapticmemoryseepage4447
@synapticmemoryseepage4447 2 жыл бұрын
Brilliant as a concise explanation.
@davidmudry5622
@davidmudry5622 Жыл бұрын
If the only force is from below then only by removing the strength of force in a structure can cause it to completely collapse in acceleration from the top down...9/11?
@aveersingh7634
@aveersingh7634 Жыл бұрын
So, how do we account for the fact that we can differentiate between a rocket ship accelarating upward and being at rest on the Earth as follows- By shining a beam of light in the accelerating rocket ship, we find from inside it that light "bends" as in it has a lower height when it touches the elevator. But, Shining a beam of light on the Earth doesnt result so, and that we receive the same level of light when it hits the wall of our house or lab, and DOESN'T "bend"?
@renthearchangel9479
@renthearchangel9479 Жыл бұрын
This is why we should be extremely careful with using light as an example. Light technically does bend (that is why gravitational lensing is observed: gravity also effects light). However, the reason we don't measure it on Earth or even in that elevator example is because light travels extremely, extremely, extremely fast compared to any object that will "accelerate" due to gravity that we could currently exist in. For most observers, light travels almost instantaneously. I mean, just compare the speed of a commercial plane and light. The average commercial plane travels at around 250m/s while light travels at around 299,792,458 m/s: light is faster than the average plane 1.199.170 times. This is especially difficult to measure if the distance between the light's origin on the elevator and the wall on the other side is small. Most elevators have at most around 2 m of width. So light will finish its journey from the origin to the end of the wall in about... well basically instantaneous for most observers. The "bend" could be observed and measured if we have an equally extremely, extremely, extremely precise and powerful equipment that can calculate extremely quickly and set to automatically register when the beam of light first sets off, but the acceleration would need to be significantly larger than anything we've ever observed or personally experienced that it's practically not noticeable.
@aniruddhachakrabortyindia
@aniruddhachakrabortyindia 11 ай бұрын
Does that mean we see light rays bend while standing on earth?
@gabrielorsi3599
@gabrielorsi3599 7 жыл бұрын
will the distance between the walls of the accelerating elevator stay the same? because light is taking a longer path, and its velocity must be constant to both observers, must distance change or time?
@howfarawayisit
@howfarawayisit 7 жыл бұрын
The distance between the walls is perpendicular to the direction of the motion, so no change is happening.
@gabrielorsi3599
@gabrielorsi3599 7 жыл бұрын
David Butler so then time flow will be different, slower to the one accelerating. How was it decided that causality (or light) should be the constant, immutable among observers? Experiments do agree with that, but how was it theorised before practical data confirmed it?
@howfarawayisit
@howfarawayisit 7 жыл бұрын
The theory was that the speed of light was relative. But then the Michelson-Morley experiment showed that it was fixed. Take a look at the 'How fast is it' video on The Speed of Light.
@gabrielorsi3599
@gabrielorsi3599 7 жыл бұрын
thank you, I will =)
@siddharthsrivastava3560
@siddharthsrivastava3560 Жыл бұрын
Hello sir, I'd like to say that in the video in 02:25, you have only shown what the outer observer sees when the elevator has moved up the height equal to the original distance of the ball from the elevator. What happens if the elevator keeps moving even after that? Will the outer observer simply say that the elevator is carrying the ball upwards?
@howfarawayisit
@howfarawayisit Жыл бұрын
Yes. The outer observer would see that.
@walker8476
@walker8476 6 жыл бұрын
So on Earth, the ball falls to the ground because the Earth is moving upwards, but upwards is one direction. What if you are on the other side of the planet?
@howfarawayisit
@howfarawayisit 6 жыл бұрын
'up' and 'down' on the planet are defined as 'away from the center' and 'towards the center' respectively.
@walker8476
@walker8476 6 жыл бұрын
Still doesn't explain how the planet can move up to meet the ball? If the Earth was flat and moving up, it could meet the ball. I'm clearly missing something here.
@shamsalveera
@shamsalveera 3 жыл бұрын
if u r saying that we are feeling gravity because earth is moving upward then I m sorry,I dont beleive such principle.better with newton in this one..if we r going upward then those on the opposite side would b flown back to the sky since earth is a rough sphere..n regardless of air resistance a feather n a stone ll touch the ground simultaneously if the earth is moving upward n not the two objects that fall due to gravity
@SzTz100
@SzTz100 2 жыл бұрын
Good job, very good job.
@alwaysdisputin9930
@alwaysdisputin9930 2 жыл бұрын
This is great TY
@ThomasJr
@ThomasJr 3 жыл бұрын
*I am very confused. I thought the laws of physics should only be equal for inertial reference frames. Now this seems to be saying that the laws of Physics are the same for all reference frames??? Even reference frames with different accelerations??*
@renthearchangel9479
@renthearchangel9479 Жыл бұрын
I know I'm late but for all those out there still asking, the laws of physics should be "equal for inertial reference frames" is specifically for special relativity, this video is about general relativity, a refined theory of relativity that also incorporates gravity and its effects.
@ThomasJr
@ThomasJr Жыл бұрын
@@renthearchangel9479 Ok, but the video is claiming Galileo's principle of relativity as being valid for all reference frames. Of course the laws of Physics can't be the same for accelerating ref frames.
@ThomasJr
@ThomasJr Жыл бұрын
@@renthearchangel9479 Thanks
@ThomasJr
@ThomasJr 3 жыл бұрын
*Hey Dr. Butler, but the equivalence principle is not exact, right? As there are the tidal forces (on Earth the pull on the feet is stronger than the pull on the head). So this principle is only approximate, and the person in the elevator in principle can tell that his feet has the same "a" as his head (hence equal forces), whereas the person on Earth has different forces at his feet and at his head.*
@sonutabitha4538
@sonutabitha4538 2 жыл бұрын
Tidal forces do not affect humans as such. It would have mattered if our heads were very big, say the size of the earth. Then the moon's tidal forces might have stretched our heads. So yeah.. the principle of equivalence is exact.
@ThomasJr
@ThomasJr 2 жыл бұрын
@@sonutabitha4538 Not really!
@ThomasJr
@ThomasJr 2 жыл бұрын
@@sonutabitha4538 I already explained in the OP
@ThomasJr
@ThomasJr 2 жыл бұрын
@@sonutabitha4538 here it goes again. Acceleration due to gravity depends on the distance. If you were sitting at the event horizon of a black hole you'd be stretched so fast you'd be ripped apart, because the pull on your feet is much stronger than on your head, the difference is tremendous. A space ship accelerating in space has all of your body accelerating at the same rate, so the equivalence principle is only approximate.
@sonutabitha4538
@sonutabitha4538 2 жыл бұрын
@@ThomasJr First of all, let's revisit the statement on the Equivalence principle. It says "A uniform gravitational field is equivalent to a uniformly accelerating frame of reference." A uniform gravitational field has, by definition, no tidal forces and thus no space-time curvature. The mathematical quantity associated with space-time curvature is the Riemann tensor, also known as the curvature tensor or tidal force tensor. This tensor, as with any tensor, can be expressed as a matrix. It can be shown that if, for a given region of space-time, all of the components of the curvature tensor vanish then that region of space-time is said to be flat. Conversely, if a region of space-time is not flat then it’s said to be curved. Curvature is said to be a local quantity in that it is possible to detect its presence in an arbitrarily small region of space in an arbitrarily short amount of time. It is always possible to choose a coordinate system, which is inertial, at least locally. Such a coordinate system is said to be locally flat. Given experimental limitations one can establish criteria in which tidal effects maybe ignored. Thus EP can be applied to objects that are very small such that tidal forces can be neglected. It should be noted that the equivalence principle explains the result of a "local" experiment. The word local is very important and it emphasizes that the experiment must be small compared to variations in the gravitational field, tidal forces. It is true that an observer in free-fall into a black hole will experience strong tidal forces: he will notice a more powerful force on the parts closer to the black hole. But as far as the person on earth is concerned, the tidal forces experienced would be really very small that the person won't be able to distinguish between the gravitational acceleration on earth and the acceleration in the laboratory.
@GuyusSeralius
@GuyusSeralius 4 жыл бұрын
I enjoyed this video presentation. But I would think one could determine whether or not he or she were in a box resting within Earth's gravitational field or in a box being accelerated in space simply by dropping two objects. Drop the first from 1 meter high and the second from 2 meters high. In a planet's gravitational field, the first object should strike the floor in less time compared to the time it takes the second object to traverse a meter, since objects further apart have less attractive force. If you did the same within an accelerated box in space, both objects would traverse a meter in the same amount of time regardless of where they were released--right?
@CooperNicolaysen
@CooperNicolaysen 3 жыл бұрын
You would need a smaller box so the tidal accerlations between the 2 objects are obsolete.
@davebennett5069
@davebennett5069 3 жыл бұрын
this is the problem i have with this explanation. it is either oversimplifying, or leaving out some important facts. in the accelerated box, the dropped object is not accelerating, it is not traversing. it IS at rest. the box is accelerating and eventually collides with it. on a planet, as you say, the rate of acceleration towards the center of mass depends on your distance from the center of that mass...so yes...you are accelerating at an ever-increasing rate as you fall.
@maxfriis
@maxfriis 6 жыл бұрын
@David Butler says "accelerate with a constant velocity" ( kzfaq.info/get/bejne/o6ekhadqxJqzkWQ.html ). Constant velocity should mean no acceleration. It's confusing to not be rigorous in a video like this one.
@howfarawayisit
@howfarawayisit 6 жыл бұрын
Peter, It is not a language issue. It is a mistake on my part. I meant to day constant acceleration. Thanks for noting it.
@maxfriis
@maxfriis 6 жыл бұрын
Sorry for editing my comment while you answered, and thanks for your videos. I started out with an assumption that it was an English language issue like in "ain't got nothing". I realized this was probably not the case so I edited my comment. Thanks for a very fast answer.
@ik_2026
@ik_2026 Жыл бұрын
Nice explained
@kavyaremesh8083
@kavyaremesh8083 6 жыл бұрын
Thankkuu itzs helpful
@ramlydiosa
@ramlydiosa 4 жыл бұрын
Ok so if the one in space is equivalent to the one on earth, then doing it another way, we are not falling to the ground, the ground is accelerating upwards? . but the earth is a sphere!
@shamsalveera
@shamsalveera 3 жыл бұрын
people n objects on the opposite side of the earth ll b flown back to the sky since the earth was accelerating upward.lol equivalent principle
@srinivasaprameyah.s468
@srinivasaprameyah.s468 3 жыл бұрын
Earth is experiencing gravity due to sun’s bending of space time ! It doesn’t need rockets or to go up !
@blessy7364
@blessy7364 2 жыл бұрын
@@shamsalveera Then can u explain why every thing on earth is falling at the same rate ? ?
@jigarbhatiya3329
@jigarbhatiya3329 Жыл бұрын
What is gravity then ?😵🤔🤔
@yousfbsaeed395
@yousfbsaeed395 4 жыл бұрын
thanks
@Guustaaf
@Guustaaf 2 жыл бұрын
At 45 sec "starts accelerating at a constant velocity". Acceleration means change in velocity. You should correct this.
@howfarawayisit
@howfarawayisit Жыл бұрын
Thanks for catching this error last year. I'm finally close to uploading the 2023 4K update. The fix is in it.
@Guustaaf
@Guustaaf Жыл бұрын
@@howfarawayisit Looking forward to it.
@fredashay
@fredashay Жыл бұрын
Mr. Kotter! Mr. Kotter!! I'd be able to tell the difference!!! The person who stayed in the "elevator" on Earth will be older than the person who traveled in the "elevator" through space. #ItchyFeet
@BTWPhysics
@BTWPhysics 3 жыл бұрын
The equivalence principle is actually wrong. I'm currently writing up a scientific paper showing undeniable proof.
@suryasnatabhattacharyya1927
@suryasnatabhattacharyya1927 3 жыл бұрын
Please send me after you have written
@BTWPhysics
@BTWPhysics 3 жыл бұрын
@@suryasnatabhattacharyya1927 Sure np
@shamsalveera
@shamsalveera 3 жыл бұрын
if it actually theorized that the earth is going upward.then rip to this principle
@BobbieGWhiz
@BobbieGWhiz 3 жыл бұрын
Still waiting
@BTWPhysics
@BTWPhysics 3 жыл бұрын
The paper is a work in progress and is almost half finished. The first half is focused on non-equality and the second half will be focused on non-equivalence.
@tor1302
@tor1302 7 жыл бұрын
but what about the tidal forces? under acceleration the force field is not equally strong at his head and feet. that is NOT equivalent to being in a gravitational field as on a earth. I never understood how physicists still call it principle of equivalence...
@howfarawayisit
@howfarawayisit 7 жыл бұрын
The force field in the elevator is uniform. The force field on Earth is from a point source and not uniform. So to that extent, you can measure the difference. But in a small enough region, it is the same. It's like in calculus where a small enough slice of a curved line is straight.
@barryhughes9764
@barryhughes9764 7 жыл бұрын
No offence sir , I enjoyed the video, but really this fundamental principle is surely flawed by the reason given by the previous post. Uniform and non uniform acceleration can never be considered as equal, no matter on what scale it is measured, it is still not equivalent.
@KhayyamBahadur
@KhayyamBahadur 7 жыл бұрын
The concept of uniform and non uniform acceleration diminishes when you reach at the limit of observation, such as when you put the limit (Del time ---> Zero ) to get the "instantaneous velocity" of an accelerated object. Here you aren't actually making that object static (in order to calculate its velocity) but limiting your observation to an instant where graph of velocity vs time gets linear, so that you can calculate it.
@barryhughes9764
@barryhughes9764 7 жыл бұрын
Khayyam Bahadur. I accept your argument of the " limit "if one considers the distances involved tending to zero, and thanks for your reply. However, how does the curvature of " spacetime " account for tidal forces? Isn't this a Newtonian description of gravity whereby forces are involved. I thought in spacetime there is no force involved just curvature.One is always presented with the example of a man near the edge of a so called " black hole " being stretched by tidal forces.......what mechanism of " spacetime " accounts for this "spahettification "Thanks again for your response.
@sonutabitha4538
@sonutabitha4538 2 жыл бұрын
I agree with @David Butler. First of all, let's revisit the statement on the Equivalence principle. It says "A uniform gravitational field is equivalent to a uniformly accelerating frame of reference." A uniform gravitational field has, by definition, no tidal forces and thus no space-time curvature. The mathematical quantity associated with space-time curvature is the Riemann tensor, also known as the curvature tensor or tidal force tensor. This tensor, as with any tensor, can be expressed as a matrix. It can be shown that if, for a given region of space-time, all of the components of the curvature tensor vanish then that region of space-time is said to be flat. Conversely, if a region of space-time is not flat then it’s said to be curved. Curvature is said to be a local quantity in that it is possible to detect its presence in an arbitrarily small region of space in an arbitrarily short amount of time. It is always possible to choose a coordinate system, which is inertial, at least locally. Such a coordinate system is said to be locally flat. Given experimental limitations one can establish criteria in which tidal effects maybe ignored. Thus EP can be applied to objects that are very small such that tidal forces can be neglected. It should be noted that the equivalence principle explains the result of a "local" experiment. The word local is very important and it emphasizes that the experiment must be small compared to variations in the gravitational field, tidal forces. It is true that an observer in free-fall into a black hole will experience strong tidal forces: he will notice a more powerful force on the parts closer to the black hole. But as far as the person on earth is concerned, the tidal forces experienced would be really very small that the person won't be able to distinguish between the gravitational acceleration on earth and the acceleration in the laboratory.
@richardwalker9826
@richardwalker9826 Жыл бұрын
Einstein was (light years) ahead of his time - just a joke- relatively speaking! did Einstein ever believe that time travel was actually possible?
@howfarawayisit
@howfarawayisit Жыл бұрын
No.
@vinovk3104
@vinovk3104 4 жыл бұрын
Nice thanks😊
@Justsayin6038
@Justsayin6038 6 жыл бұрын
They are not the same. Gravity acts on every atom of your body, whereas the lift transmits a propulsive force from the point of contact with the lift. Also, at rest on the Earth's surface you have a precise Gravitational Potential Energy, but the person in the lift hasn't the first clue what their kinetic energy is as it is linked to their velocity which they cannot deduce. The 'equivalence' is only that the mass in one equation is the same as mass in another and that mass is proportional to itself.
@NoahCraigMusic
@NoahCraigMusic 5 жыл бұрын
Your Right
@RobertGeez
@RobertGeez 5 жыл бұрын
Noah Craig Vlogs you’re right.
@jianyuyj2016
@jianyuyj2016 3 жыл бұрын
If you have a moving object as a reference inside the lift, you can calculate the velocity at which it travels like the ball inside the elevator. Without the reference object, then you can't find out the speed
@ivanzaremez4773
@ivanzaremez4773 4 жыл бұрын
so this is fundamental for GRT? Fine. Then if it falls falls the GRT.
@russellstephan6844
@russellstephan6844 Жыл бұрын
The big problem with the Equivalence Principle in a gravitational field? In a gravitational field, the objects in freefall are on convergent paths to the center point of the gravitational source. A Google Doc going into more detail: docs.google.com/document/d/1RIpp5ud_VIjkuSxP_Pt1oUGtQ1r-bw3H_L_ZiGwUfTE/edit?usp=share_link
@howfarawayisit
@howfarawayisit Жыл бұрын
It only need to work at a point. Changing position and noting angle changes will tell you the difference, but the principle holds if you can't tell from a singe point.
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