I love how they're so respectful towards each other, especially when they're discussing something SO controversial. This is really unique, they never raise their voice against eachother and they're all still laughing together even though they disagree with eachother. I wish that everyone who discusses these matters act in the same way they do.

Logan cannot wrap his head around the fact that all sexual sin is equally immoral and it's not because God created us that way, it's because we're fallen.

We must preach repentance… in 2008, I was a gay-identified man, in a committed, monogamous same-sex relationship, active in an affirming church, then found myself in an ICU where the medical team classified me clinically dead after a 22-minute flatline. I experienced death, judgement and hell. When I couldn’t take any more demonic torment, I cried out in repentance, “Jesus!” and I heard the Savior say, “I am here.” At that moment, I saw with my eyes the Wind of the Holy Spirit fill my ICU and with great power, He pick up Satan and the demonic and blew them out of the room. On that day, my life changed, the redemptive Blood of Jesus cleared my mind of perversion, and completely healed and restored every failing organ. Glory to God!

Not everyone struggles with the same sinful urges. Homosexuality is one of MANY.

So many men preach to us about how being gay is a sin but they never say anything about Divorce and Remarriage ( Matt 19 : 8-9) I wonder why? Especially since Jesus never said anything about gays but he had a lot to say about divorce. Maybe it has to do with Christianities inability to to reconcile its demands for strict adherence to the laws and the fact that they themselves are incapable of adhering to those laws. Isn't it just easier to "other" some small group of people, so we can all point to them and say I might be a sinner but at least I am not that. Doesn't that make you feel good?

What about people who are attracted to children? They were born that way right? That should make it ok right? No. Feelings are feelings, it’s ok to have them. It’s not always ok to act on them. We have free will. God doesn’t MAKE us “this way” we are fallen. Without God we truly are a despicable species.

WE SHOULD ALL BE ABLE TO DISCUS AND DEBATE LIKE THIS IN A CALM PEACFUL WAY AND STILL SHOW LOVE FOR EACH OTHER EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE SUCH APOSING POINTS OF YOU.

Too much sugar coating Don’t sugar coat sin. Sin is sin and it shouldn’t be described as a flaw. It leads to death.

It's important to state that sin is also sickness of the soul which causes passions in the heart. That sickness can be transmitted from parents to their children. Exactly why we all have the original sin in us from Adam and Eve before one gets baptized in the Church of God, the Easter Orthodox Church.

You can’t get forced into faith. It never happened. Thats why it’s called faith. God wants us to willfully choose Him not be forced. What kind of loving god would force his children to love him

We were all conceived in sin (except Jesus Christ). Therefore, yes we naturally all have sinful weaknesses, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay to act on them just because they come naturally to you. Logan certainly wouldn’t use the excuse of “They were just born that way” for murderers would he? Highly doubt it. GOD/Jesus offers help to those who want to have their hearts spiritually renewed, if they repent and obey His word.

whats the song of the background??

*The problem IS NOT the feeling, is the act up on that feeling.* We all have struggles and we all have to abstain one way or the other.

Just because you have a predisposition toward a certain sin does not mean you give in to it.

Why is there a blue banner below the video for the Trevor Project? Does KZfaq believe it has a higher understanding and must impart that with everyone?

We do tell them that. When they are old enough to understand, they usually embrace it. They love the idea that they can and will be fully healed.

We need to stop idolizing homosexuality into identity. It is simply behavior, and yes, behavior is a choice. Sexual sin, for ALL of us, is a choice.

I will make this simple: - God is about life: If the entire world be Heterosexual life lives on. - If the entire world would be Homosexual life would end in death. God is about life; death is against God.

What song is in the background?

God says homosexuality is a sin. DEBATE OVER. But it's not the only sin, straight people sin too, adultery, fornication, drunkard Ness, idolatry, lying, stealing etc are also sins. Jesus said repent or you will all likewise perish. Luke 13 : 2-3 GOD LOVES US ALL LETS GET RIGHT WITH HIM.

Jesus says. Even if you’re gay or just want sex with the opposite sex outside of marriage it’s still sin. But He also said, even if we are born that way. We must be born again

Many people believe they are born or are created to be homosexual but what I think people are forgetting is that, when you commit one sin, no matter what it is, it opens the door to many others to come into your life and latch onto you, and one of these sins could very well be homosexuality

weird how we never talk of is homophobia a sin as YES IT IS. END OF.

why am i getting a conversion therapy ad while i watch this

"Why did God create homosexuals"? He didn't. He created men and women, and He gives them the choice of the direction they want to take. In the same way He didn't create murderers. Or thieves. Those are all choices made by the flesh. The choice you make determines your outcome. You aren't forced to choose, but what you choose will determine where you end. Life is not a bed of roses. It's a road of thorns you navigate your way through. A test. Because life here is only the beginning.

Plenty of eye witnesses that saw Jesus alive after he was dead. They all took it to there graves. 2000 years and no one has denied it. Tribe of billions is not small. But your right narrow is the road and the gate that leads to eternal life in heaven with our Father. I hope you will lay your pride down and believe before its to late

I see a lot of value in religion. But honestly, anyone that literally believes the Bible is gods word and doesn’t recognize that it’s a human written text is absolutely lacking in intelligent thought.

A student of Alan Watts…Eugene. He moved on and became a Christian, then a monk….his tonsured name became Seraphim Rose. Amazing man. He was gay but celibate and did AMAZING work for Christ’s church. He has some amazing books and there’s many amazing videos on him. “Pick up your cross and follow Me.”

'Being gay is not the sin. Scripture says the lustful homosexual relations are. My argument is that a gay individual who doesn't entertain adulterous thoughts and denies themself isn't committing a sin. Being trans isn't wrong. I can be LGBTQ and not partake in any of the sinful activities.

To make the claim that a person is “born gay” is to make a claim based on an assumption not on evidence. The reality and science of human development is that nobody is “born gay.” Sexual attraction doesn’t develop until a child transitions into puberty and there body begins the process of developing into an adult. Prior to this stage, any sexual behavior that a child demonstrates is learned behavior from their environment. And when a person is going through puberty is no uncommon for attraction to the same sex to develop, but it still does not meet the classification of sexual attraction, it meets the characteristics of affection and often due to social influences in the persons life. Homosexuality is a choice that is made by the individual for reasons that would require extensive counseling to unpack. There was a study done by the university of Stanford of over 20,000 participants that indicated that there is no genetic marker that determines a person’s sexual preference. So if the genetic marker does not exist, then the next logical place to look is the spiritual health and the emotional health of the individual.

The problem with human beings is that they are shaped by their experiences- they’re also ignorant when they don’t have first hand experience in a given topic -

People forget that pride is a sin. Yet they celebrate pride.

See Luke 14-26 to understand who to point fingers at. .... .... Spoiler alert: "get a mirror."

The presupposition here is that people are BORN this way. I see no evidence of that. What I do see, is that kids are influenced into those types of life styles at a very young age. Since this because a subjective opinion by the time the child 'comes out', we assume that they were born with a homosexual nature. And, our society fosters that type of behavior as being ok so therefore, its ok to have these feelings.

Our desires and wants don't equate sin our choices enacted do. We won't be judged on desires themselves. What we did with or on behalf of those desires is where the line starts. The key words are choice and action. Being and are are within limits of permit.

I wish more people would just be humble enough to say “I don’t know” to a lot of these questions instead of their blathering word diarrhea answers

Everyone has trouble with the things installed into us upon arriving. Everyone is going to likely sin. Jesus set the bar quite high on what qualifies as not being from God. Since everyone has this issue, who is the worse sinner, those with a narrow gate and could not find it or those with no gate and so won't find it? It's more difficult to find God for the average person. Having a disadvantage can be turned into an advantage. Christ is The Way. The light can penetrate darkness and convert darkness to light. Darkness cannot even penetrate the light. Unbelievers are in the best position, they've been lied to, been tested in the most difficult ways, and in some places held back from even knowing that there is a Truth. For these souls, this is their greatest opportunity of an eternal journey. And for anyone still breathing, right now is the time, because of The Lord Jesus Christ, Saviour and Messiah to the world, there is Grace.

Logan just needs to understand that just because you naturally are tempted to something, that doesn't make it right. Yes maybe a gay man cannot control his feelings, but he can choose whether to act on those feelings(ex have a gay relationship) just a angry person cannot control his feelings but can choose whether to act on those feelings(ex hurt someone)

we all have many choices in life & often fail them all, orientation is a choice we make, not born that way, & we can blame no one for our choices

A perfect explanation.

So this guy knows sexual attraction is in his words "hard wired" into us but for some reason still believes a loving committed relationship between two men is wrong. Why? Just cuz. It is an unrealistic expectation placed on gays that straight people do not have to live up to. The nerve of people like this to believe life long celibacy is even remotely close to only having sex with the woman you are married to, shows the deep cognitive dissonance living in their minds. How narsassistic can you be?

All these Christians in the video were not experiencing SSA. So it is easy for them to say and quote the scripture. Don't get me wrong, I am a Christian and I strongly opposing SSA, but I myself experiencing SSA since I was very young. It makes me living in misery. I have never have sexual relation or same sex relation since it is wrong. It is not only wrong because it is written in the scripture, but it is also wrong because biologically and logically penis was made for vagina. When they said heterosexual has more temptation to sin, well I would gladly switch my SSA with your heterosexual temptation. And making SSA the same thing as "I was born without having patience towards other people" is definitely not the correct analogy. I wish they know how heavy the cross we are carrying as a SSA person..

Not bad but i think too soft answers but yeah it’s a difficult subject to argue with non believers….intersting.

Good discussion. We all have different crosses to bear. Some more difficult than others.

Leviticus 20:13 NKJV 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 NKJV

There’s nothing to debate. People don’t read the Bible and come to the conclusion that God allows homosexuality. They go into the Bible with the conclusion that they don’t think it’s wrong and then try to find evidence for it.

Christopher Hitchens once said "born sick but expected to be well"

🎶💗Some Dj's play music, & Some BLOW MINDS!!! 💗🎶 Big up from wigan for keepin it 100% REAL,. 💃🏻👏💃🏻👏💃🏻👏💃🏻

God didn’t create homosexuality… Satan did, Actually let Me rephrase that, Satan corrupted Gods creation, Because Satan can’t create anything, All he does is steal, And corrupt what God made, He wants to be like God, But he can’t because he ain’t, So since he can’t create he does the next best thing in his twisted mind, He corrupts what is already created, Just to feel like he actually created something

Kudos to Logan Paul. He sees right through the lies that the other guy spits out. Same old homophobic BS. This is not a choice for us gay people. And telling us to not act means a life of loneliness. All humans deserve a family. And so do gay people. Period.

No one is born gay. That’s a concept pushed by people to make people feel good or to make excuses for their sin. We all have choices. Porn watchers,drugs users, adulterers are are sinners. But we have a choice to not do these things.

In the end, all believers of all religions and all nonbelievers alike, all share the same fate... oblivion. It's going to be okay.

Subjective religious nonsense. Leave people alone..

Deuteronomy chapter 22 verse 5, Leviticus chapter 18 verse 22, Leviticus chapter 20 verse 13 are just few examples and scripitures that say clearly that it isn't allowed to be homosexual or lesbian

The problem with saying homosexuality is from birth is then saying pedos are also the same. “They can’t help who they are attracted to” and then later on down the line, will we change laws and allow pedos as being okay bc you’re born that way?

I enjoyed this conversation. Very civil.

That preacher is delusional.

it drives me nuts that cliffe is not explaining to him original sin and the fall, that seems to be what he's asking about. Stop using analogy and just go into the theology of it, even though we don't know all of it we have a pretty good idea of how the world got broken.

Confused people can be attracted to the "wrong" people.. trauma can cause confussion.. being brainwashed can cause confussion.. depression can cause confussion😢

Sin is sin...but does he say to repent from sin?

The logan guy is just a budding kid who needs to learn a lot in life.

That's why it's so important never to judge anyone, because you can't understand what's tormenting them. It's very easy for me to go and judge people who gamble, saying - hey man stop doing that, you're destroying yours and lives of other people around Just turn your back and say no to gambling, drugs, alcohol etc, all you have to do is stop doing it, right? Well, not really. Never judge or hate or any people.

Could we stop with the music in the background.

Really thought Cliff put his foot in his mouth when answering why he was attracted to women. You have to know that if you say you are hardwired one way that people will argue is that they are hard wired the other way. Answering that with "this is the way God created everyone to be and rebellion against that is sin that eventually leads away from him and salvation" would have been better and then you can bring in Genesis 19 to supplement your point.

The guy in blue literally runs into the point, but completely misses it. Are you attracted to women? He says no because I’m not wired that way. It works the same for gay people.

2Tim 3 : 1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2:56 that was the easiest question to answer, it's because he gave us a freedom of choice, just like we sin in other choices, choosing to love the same sex is a sin too!

God said "not to kill" yet he created a killer ... same logic how can a person be this dull

It’s obvious the universe didn’t just randomly create us and everything in it to such a level where male and female are distinguished categories, thus anything that goes contrary to the laws of nature should be considered inherently wrong and thus avoided, even where religion is not taken into account

You have to be pretty unprepared to get out witted by Jake Paul ( I think Jake would agree.) Cliffe sputtered and waffled and tried to dodge the question. He lacks the courage of his proclaimed conventions and anyone watching can see it. He even went back on what he said at the end. He goes on and on about how it is all sin and it is the same as if you murdered little boys and Cliffe says he's no better... then says "well in a way I am better then a murder." Cliffe, you just blew your whole argument up yourself at the end. It is in that wiggle room, in that space you made between yourself and the murderer speaks volumes to your true feelings about gays since he puts the two next to each other for some crazy reason. Grow some real compation instead of just proclaiming your fake compation to the world, we don't need any more Pharisees shutting the door to heaven in peaples faces (matt 23 : 14) Thank you very much.

If you were to drink water and you inspect it there was a spec of poop on it would you drink it? God is holy and pure that even a person who thinks they have never sinned is still a sinner in the eyes of God

Is this true logan Paul and Cliffe?

7:35 Freudian Slip lol

There is no "debate": it's listed as a sin. No one pro-truth ever claims things are a "debate".

Cliffe Knechtle's analogies of his being born as a non-forgiver and as one who has a drive to be a womanizer are excellent. We're all fallen, and this fallenness affects people in different ways, same-sex attraction being one of many. Jesus can make us better in every way.

Romans 1 is quite clear. The real question is how willing is one willing to walk in obedience to Gods word.

Your desire isn't your reality

How much has satin played a part in the bio process of sin while he is the ruler of this world

I think we came to this world to take our own happiness by mutual agreement with no violence😊❤

If i'm loosing a part of myself, i don't want to go to heaven

Can’t do the music.

People can talk themselves into interpreting the Bible the way they want to hear it, but they can’t ever talk themselves to accept that gods word is gods word. If everyone read the Bible they would agree that taking a life is wrong, but somehow we convinced our selves that a baby is not a life. We all agree that our body is a temple, but justify people accepting who they are and that being severely obese is ok, sleeping with as many people as you want is ok, going against the grain of nature is ok. We are all guilty of something. We shall not judge one’s actions but forgive them and repent together. This whole war started because people mock the lord. One day we will all see.

SINERS HATE THE TRUTH, 👑 LORD JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY WAY OUT OF SINS!

The exact verse is in the Leviticus 20:13 ... Quit skating around trying to avoid it. God is the same yesterday , today and forever. So dont say well that dont apply today.

Gay sex, or any other type of sexual sin are sins against the body and literally comes down to you needing to choose God or Sin to rule over you. We are given free will and we are expected to obey God and his commandments. It lets God know you truly love him by obeying his commandments.

Help me understand cause Jesus says right before he dies, “it is finished.” He saved us all…? regardless of anything. Took the hand of the woman being stoned. He just wanted us to be good people and love one another

4:12 even if heterosexual sin has more mentioned homosexuals still have to follow what heterosexuals have to follow. On top of having to like not engage in marriage and no sex. Why? Why do heterosexuals get to act on their urges but homosexuals cannot. And why is homosexuality a sin? Like there is zero harm

Straight is great! It's great to be straight! If you are straight, then celebrate!

Well, according to Cliff's explanation it means most of all the Biblical figures were knowingly sinning all along. Unless they didn't interpret the scriptures like he is.

Logan needs to read the book of Job.

Correction, cliff provides points and Logan wrestles with his feelings

Thats a gaslighting argument. Lust, hate, and love.

Someone isn't born a murder or a homosexual. Something happens in life to make people that way. It's pain that changes someone. I struggled with being gay. I was always attracted to girls growing up. It started when I couldn't find a girl that would love me. I felt alone and I was looking to be loved and I was curious. I became gay to be loved. I kept being gay and the desire was to strong and it felt "normal" being gay. I knew it was wrong because I was attracted to girls growing up and God said don't be gay. I broke that gay desire by praying and fasting. After fasting I broke that gay desire and im not gay anymore. I feel that love I was seeking it's God's love. The devil will use pain to change you.

So this paul guy really struggles to get this concept but cliff really opened my eyes to this dilemma..I struggle with overeating and like cliff i would like to be with every woman i find attractive as well... im heterosexual. I understand now many are pre disposed to certain traits that cause them to be a certain way perhaps its genetic or perhaps its just the the vice god created me to have or perhaps its really just random when we enter this world. but heres the kicker god is here for us and we ask for it he leads us on a journey to become more like christ. i believe that once you accept christ as savior the holy spirit works in the lif of the believer and constantly warns us of our wrong doing with discernment. its up to us to listen or not and the out come is not necessairly out of our hands but i believe jesus releases us just enough in order for us to be able to make that choice. Not as a slave in shackles forced but he puts us in a place where the choice isnt necessarily easy but its not so overwhelmingly difficult.

Thank you cliffe love your explaination

Oh man… one day when you get to know Jesus, will drop to your knees crying wondering why it wasn’t sooner…

It all comes from curiosity not you were born this way. Influences and decisions that people feel sure of instead and that never changes unless repented against. Preference is also a play on your own characteristics. I’m not saying anything negative but I 100% don’t understand gay and i always looked at it unnatural. People are allowed to have feelings and live their life but for a person to change that about themselves I think they have a mentality to change their entire lives. Which is why he is claiming they are born that way when we all know that’s not true. Preference comes at a much later age unless it was influenced by parents and that to me is really sad. There’s so much more to life then all this conversation. Kinda odd Logan talks about it but Hollywood has alot going on.

What happens in the theoretical situation in which a gay male were to have relations with a transgender man (a biological female individual). The gay male would be seeking the transgender male due to the outward appearance of them appearing as a man, despite the transgender having female genitalia. In God’s eyes, wouldn’t that be considered a heterosexual relationship, given that God would not view that transgender as a male, but would rather view that transgender as a biological female? It seems as if there’s a loophole, so long as the genitalia is the opposite.

PROVERBS 14:12 - THERE IS A WAY THAT SEEMS RIGHT TO A MAN, BUT ITS END IS THE WAY OF DEATH.

Receiving your information from the bible is the most out-of-touch thing a person could do.