yeah and that's the most normal mode of use, everyone knows that it works

All you need to know about Pitons: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gdadosZ83JecZ4k.html

@@brienfoaboutanything9037 That video is about something completely unrelated to what this video is about

I know you know your stuff, but get with the program here.

Pavlo Deshko. No matter where is the eye of the piton it's better when the level of it get crossed to the axis of the crack. This situation forced the piton to rotate around itself and give a lot more friction between the metal and the rock. That's why in the old days that they didn't have quickdraws they put a lanier with an "alouett" knot at the edge of the eye and not at the main axis of the piton.

I was impressed how the top rock was moving. And once more at 11:17. But ist's the same here kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rJN-psyjsb65fZ8.html

Would it then not be stronger on a real mountain or a place you would climb? As ofc the thing cant hold an entire mountain.

I sent him a batch of knots, including knotted loops (slings). Flemish bend, alpine butterfly (both parallel and perpendicular ended), zeppelin bend, sheet bend, reever bend, and double fisherman's bend. Also the corresponding loop knots. Edelweiss 7mm 9.8kn accessory cord. So expect an episode with that at some point.

beer knot tests are a great idea I second!

I agree. Test some heads!

they use rows of pins to quarry stone, and they have hydraulic wedges for destroying rock

TriCams, please!!

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/md2ojKSQ1sy2omg.html

Yeeeeeees! But also wtf those are still used?

@@rachelhasbruises That is a great question. Ask a lot of people and you will get a lot of different answers. They solve specific unique problems, and at one time they were the best option, but now although potentially better alternatives exist, people still go with what they know. Placing them well is becomming a lost art of the old guys who have a fondness for them. But when done right, they were surprisingly strong and tested far better than other 1/4 inch alternatives. Possibly due to the lack of threads. There are reports of them holding north of 3,500 lbs, while a threaded wedge of the day sheared at 800lbs and was highly prone to metal fatigue. Everone has their stories but the fact that so many popular routes originally were protected with these for years, without many accidents says something. People went with them because empirically they were working. Many bc routes in Sierra granite are still covered in these. And in a lot of the exploratory phases of first ascents or decents they still go in. Sometimes time can be a factor between life and death, and in other places hand drilling on lead for a FA is part of the ethics for an area. Other times it is felt no human will ever see them again. They're still a common alternative for aid ladders, and you see people placing them with double washers and no hanger so that they can be replaced without damaging Rock. In some wet canyons no other 1/4" bolt is capable of retaining a hanger more than a season except a button head. Many parties have the intention, if the line goes, of replacing what was supposed to be temporary Hardware but often times it may take 20 years. So should we be looking at something else? There are stainless alternatives now that reportedly hold more than 5,000 pounds. But people go with what they know. As long as people have a need for quarter inch hardware, the button head seems to still be making appearances, albeit seen by very few people. And the bigger hardware doesn't necessarily make it any safer. In one Ryan's videos he tested a 1/2" powerstud. Way better than any 1/4" button head... yet it failed with a few hundred pounds of force because they failed to place it with enough thread engagement. These guys arguably have more experience bolting then a lot of people placing bolts these days... and that coukld have been a fatal mistake, and I see it in the wild. Some stainless studs in granite suffer from this due to the old practice of backing the nut over the stud to protect the threads from the hammer. But modern studs have extra unthreaded metal for this purpose such that when they quickly come up to low stainless torque specs in very hard rock, not all the threads wind up engaged. If it looks flush and tidy, look closer. Most will loose their hangers anyway. Bigger doesn't always mean better. And it is really disheartening to see how many bad placements are showing up now that a cheap impact dril is accessible to almost anyone. Many will argue they still have a special need for 1/4" hardware. Assuming they know what they're doing, should this relic still be used? What better Alternatives exist? And because a lot of them are still in service, I think a lot of inquiring minds would like to know. If a better alternative shakes out, it could change things.

Let's clarify one thing, it's not common to see alpinists going out with 15 pitons to protect a whole route, but if the route you choose has many pitons already in place you'll take the hammer with you so you can fix them and assure that they are firmly in there. But once you take the hammer you'll also take 3/4 pitons just in case (I mean you already have a 2 pounds hammer, half a pound more of pitons are not going to feel heavy right?) And in the end you'll eventually use one maybe 2 just because you have them. So even if sometimes one or two pitons disappear, sometimes new ones appears instead. And on classical traditional route it's always fascinating in my opinion

I think that's granite, my dude......

Yea. and I want to test pulling perpendicular too... I just couldn't get the placement and angle for the pulleys.

@@rachelhasbruises Choss does not discriminate! There's a lot of chossy granite out there...

A real-life test is described in www.amazon.com/Sicherheit-Risiko-Fels-Eis-01/dp/3763360166 (unfortunately not available in English), on in-situ, somewhat rusty pitons in the Alps. The bottom line is "anywhere between

For dynometer maybe a wireless display reader can help you let me know if that helps you and I will try to find some random tech freak to build on for you 😅😅

You might be able to get it done cheaper with something like a compound bow string pull weight scale...It won't give you Kn but you can get pounds of pull force...It's also analog so no need for batteries..It can give you peak force as well

A labjack, it's a device that passes data from the dynamometer to a computer, for storing it so you don't only see the peak force, but the whole force-time graph

Or the rock is moving (or to look at it another way, the crack is expanding).

And now I am at the end of the part of the video where you talk about it…

I want to! Couldn't do it with this rock

The lost arrow spire.

@@BlindDesertPete I looked it up. Actually, Lost Arrows were developed by John Salathe for the first ascent of the Lost Arrow Chimney (and first climbing (e.g. non-tyrollean) ascent of the Arrow tip) in 1947). I guess "Lost Arrow" became a generic term for hardened chrome-moly style pitons that Salathe made to distinguish them from the softer European imports available at the time. When Chouinard started making pitons in 1957, he and his customers must have continued to use the generic term to describe the pitons he made. Interesting that Chouinard was able to trademark "Lost Arrow" in 1974 and claim "first use in commerce" in 1965.

@@justriley9157 I know; I have few myself. I am not questioning the strength of Chouinard pins per se, only the utility of testing the resistance of these pins to being pulled out of a crack when the pulling force is perpendicular to the plane of the crack or perpendicular to the plane of the rock face. I also became interested in the "Lost Arrow" trademark, registered in 1974 and still in force for MOUNTAINEERING EQUIPMENT-NAMELY, PITONS. The current owner is Black Diamond Equipment.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oJyias2IvL6slJ8.html

Theoretically, if the hammock were strong enough, you could hang a hammock from a couple of these and place an SUV in it.

serious testing is done for longer, longer than even youtube exists, the results of those tests are printed in books. youtube is a fairly new media and just a tiny bit of research is done in this format. there are serious tests, way more serious than on this channel. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/m9eKhNF0rNKWZHU.html

interesting. please send me photos to skylining@live.com

What do you suggest they should have done differently other than pulling in sheer? They just pulled in tension to see the worst case.

@@EvanWisheropp They should have pulled at 90 degrees to the placement as most pins are

​@@justriley9157 Read my comment again. I said what could they have done OTHER THAN pulling in sheer (aka 90 degrees). Using a logical conclusion you would see that I had already suggested pulling in sheer. I also said that pulling in tension (as they did) is a worst case pin scenario, such as hammering a pin directly up into a roof. Consider being less of a prick.

@@justriley9157 Heyup. Had a couple of friends on the north face of the Matterhorn in summer . leader took a fall , no runners, probably 200 foot at least and was held in a horizontal well place peg, on not the best rock. Obviously it was the best rock around. Thanks mate.