You can manually grab individual models and shake them, causing the settling you're talking about

@@maj429 yeah but that's not really the same thing, and also quite fiddly.

lol the physics engine for Unreal Engine is called Chaos

I mean in practice is pretty easy. And imo way easier than trying to algorithmically maximize it

Ironically, the physics system in UE5 meant to replace PhysX is actually called Chaos lol

You see similar issues in toner based copiers/Presses. Microfine particles and static are a bad combination.

Def way worse with metallic powders. Threat of fir or blast is probably pretty minimal if you follow the directions right and don't play let it snow with the powder.

They don't need explosion proof vaccums or grounding to be mentioned becuase their post processing stations and machines are explosion proof vacuums which are massively oversized and are extremely grounded and probably won't even turn on if they are not properly grounded (for industrial Selective Laser Sintering SLS). HP MJF (Multijet Fusion) uses liquid binders so you don't run into the powder hazard problems.

@@riakata not all powder can be contained. And so much of the HP builds aren't melted together. Having worked with HP for a couple years and am certified in the process it can still be a mess. No matter how much the powder recovery stations try.

Also: While nylon may be non toxic, anything with a fine enough particle size is considered carcinogenic!

I disagree with you about this being a "perfect example" for Kickstarter. Kickstarter is intended to get a developed product into production. This product is still in testing and is inundated with unresolved problems. They're still having problems reliably feeding material into the build chamber. This product hasn't gotten out of alpha testing and is nowhere near ready for beta testing. Kickstarter funds are supposed to be used for getting a product into production. They are not supposed to be squandered on developing and testing something that one day might make it into production.

I think this isn't suitable for kickstarter given the product is dangerous and the mfg is downplaying the risks which can make people think it is safer than it really is. The fact they ship reviewers KN95 masks, basically all their sift bins broke, their fan filter is undersized and will clog rapidly over time, ... I would fully support them and even buy one if they actually said how dangerous the powder is even if it is "non-toxic".

​@@riakataAgreed and well said, coming from someone who works with carbon black.

finaly something actually using kickstarter the right way

​@@EDesigns_FLI hate to break it to you... But more than half Kickstarters don't even have a prototype. This is way further than the majority of Kickstarters

Agreed, I think consumer SLS will have to be similar to formlabs system. Completely enclosed at every step.

I see that being achieved by taking some notes from laser printing (2D). Think about it; Laser printers electrically charge a cylinder with the desired image, then only the printing material (toner) is attracted to the print surface (paper) Note: this description is simplified

In another video, they did an office tour one of their first prototypes it looked like they tried to do the sifting all in one unit.

just like these days my 3D printer can do the same, except i have to help it every time and prob spend as much time trying to keep the automatic functions working as i would take doing it manually

@@TheOfficialOriginalChad the problem then is it defeats one of the major benefits of SLS no? You’d be required to have supports.

Good point!

but prusament pla smells so good when printing.. :(

​@@riverjane1223it smells so good that sometimes I eat a couple of supports

Just maybe don't have kids playing in the same room with ANY printer? Do you blame the maker of your resin printer if your kid drinks from post-process jug?

The 3D Printing content on youtube draws FAR too many 'safety' concerns. Nylon is literally used in just about every implantable medical device, because it is just about as inert as a material can be. Nearly anything you could come into contact with, in any fabrication environment, is more harmful. Breathing tons of dust particles is bad no matter what they are made from, so use a p100 or N95 mask while handling the powder and you are protected. They look like they do dust control well in addition. You need to media blast the objects, and chances are if you have a media blaster, you know to not breathe in all the aerosolized blast media that is far worse than nylon. If not, there is no fixing stupid. Either way, do your thing, let any dust settle, and keep a clean workspace. The human body is insanely resilient to small exposures to tons of things that are harmful in huge doses. In nearly every case, we find that exposures at reasonable levels have no measurable effect on health or longevity. This is true for everything from VOCs and fine particulates, to ionizing radiation. Until you exceed a reasonable exposure limit, we have identified zero harms. For substances where this is less true (where the acceptable limits are very low) like asbestos, heavy metals, etc., we basically have banned any application where meaningful exposure is even possible. The excess 'safety' concern in 3D printing KZfaq content has annoyed me for a while. The Q1 pro reviews that mentioned that the chamber heater could be dangerous if you stuck a conductor through the heater shield while the printer was in operation were too much. This is true. I can also think of about 1000 other ways you could get hurt doing equally stupid things with consumer equipment. 3D printers are tools and probably the tools most tolerant of user stupidity. But yet the KZfaq 3D printing channels act like anything that isn't 100% tolerant of user stupidity is a huge safety concern. It is like folks complaining about the electric shock hazard of US plugs. It exists, sure, and yet if you eliminated it completely, you wouldn't have a noticeable effect on US all-cause mortality. Safety has to be a likelihood vs danger vs benefit analysis. Folks who can't do that analysis, should learn how to or stay away from anything more dangerous than baby toys. We all drive for heaven's sake.

I wouldn't ever use an SLS machine in the same house my kids grow up in. Fine powders are very dangerous. Micro plastics are an emerging issue as well.

@@JOEDHIGGINS Sure, I agree, but glossing over it or not mentioning at all is at the other end of the spectrum in my opinion. If you use this machine without any protection or cleanup (which people are going to do, especially if not mentioned) it's not going to be pleasant on your lungs, as inert as it might be. Just like open laser systems people have no clue about, it's worth at least having a caution. I do agree that safety is very complex and you need to know about before going wild about it for sure. People are driving indeed, that doesn't mean much in other situations and we're not particular great in that either.

@@WheatMillington I take form that that you check your tire pressure and tread wear remaining weekly at minimum, inspect your seatbelts for wear and fraying regularly? You could always do all the work in your garage. I grew up using all manner of woodworking tools (table saws, lathes, band saws, etc.) No lasting harm and a lot of good came from it. Definitely some risk, but I am better for it. How many parents let their children be basically lethargic or sit around on devices all day every day. Far more harmful than potential exposure to an appropriately managed risk. My shop now has all the same woodworking tools, plus welding, machining, fabrication, blacksmithing and CNC. Should I make sure to keep my children from any of these definitely deadly and dangerous tools? Or just maybe teach them to use them properly. And manage risk.

@@VincentGroenewold Sure. Be cautious and manage risk, but if you spend thousands on an industrial CNC tool and don't read, do any research, or look at the warning label on the side of the container of raw material, I have essentially no sympathy for the outcomes you get.

Using biodegradable materials would certainly help with the pollution problems, however one of the nice things about SLS is the increased strength of the parts, and I don't know of too many biodegradable plastics with high tensile strength.

Honestly it doesn't seem that much crazier than resin. And tons of home users use it now.

@@ZeeLobby The post processing area for resin is much smaller. The whole media blaster cabinet needed for SLS is going to take up a lot of space. There may be other ways of accomplishing that step in finishing, such as a tumbler or something like that. But it is an extra step. As far as material handling, that is a bit of a pick your poison, but at least resin won't spread from a slight breeze.

@@mintzbuck depends on the size of prints. A desktop booth that can fit anything the micron produces honestly isn't that large. Takes up the same amount of space as a separate wash and cure station. I only say this cause I already own one and resin printers.

That was another big innovation that Stefan didn't go into detail: the Micronics software uses common game engine software to take your objects, give them a minimal 3d buffer, and stack them into the print volume efficiently and quickly. You could pack it better manually but developing the UI software and performing the packing at peak efficiency would take them many months longer and ends up even more proprietary.

​@ed_halley at 15:55 he talks about it

​@@ed_halleyyou totally missed the point of what the comentator wanted to say. The game engine is just looking for collision nothing more

@@TaconiteableYup. A quick and dirty method would be to just add an invisible “force field” or non-printing volume around the outer surface of the parts, so everything has a minimum distance between everything, so that heat soak is minimised. You could algorithmically determine this distance based on time spent printing each layer and the heat conduction rate, and the power used in each layer and dynamically vary this boundary layer thickness… but it’s probably unnecessary, and a fixed distance would be fine, if slightly less efficient

@@mduckernz thats how other sls slicers do it today - with a fixer bounding box

Oh I think metal sls printing is their main goal and aspiration

Yeah, maybe invest in 3000$ television if you want something in your living room?!?!?! Who is making claims that this is for noobs and kids?!?!?!

I'm hopeful too. We've seen crazier leaps in tech. I think it's possible

I saw the ender 3 on a sale for a third less too!

Interesting thought but I think most people printing at this level already know of that limitation because that's not unique to just SLS, liquid resin printing already has the same issue (although it would be way more impactful on SLS depending on shape but it's the same issue still)

Same problem with sla too

@@chomp7927 Isn't the problem less severe for liquid resin printing because the material should flow out during the process?

@@LanceThumping If you don't use drain holes, I'd argue it's much worse for SLA because the trapped resin is likely to burst out from the trapped volume, splattering resin in places where it probably doesn't belong. As little as you might want either SLS powder or SLA resin on/in you, I suspect that enclosed volumes of powder are less dangerous than enclosed volumes of resin. If you use drain holes with resin, you either have to put them in an unimportant location or weld plugs into the holes. I'd assume the same would be true for SLS, though plugging the drain holes would be more challenging.

​@@LanceThumpingyou can do drain holes with SLS too

It looks like he never got his hands on the printer.. hes basically just doing an interview rather than a product demonstration.

@@shivaargula4735 It probably wouldn't survive international shipping in its current state.

Their high speed fan filter unit thing is super dangerous on the combustible dust front one mistake and you could have the cake in the exhaust airstream and loft the entire chamber worth of dust into the air where it very easily could find an ignition source. Normally the post processing is done with vaccum filtration systems where the exhaust is dispersed so that there is no risk of that happenning. None of their post processing equipment looks even remotely ESD/anti-static either so the powder is just going to go all over the place.

Isn't resin supposed to be not accurate for functional parts?

im preety sure that is not a problem of sls but from your part maker. For example der8auer has used sls to make a custom water system for a laptop with extremly small fins etc.

Nice detailed comment. Bravo.

Working for a company that uses SLS for aerospace it sounds like more of a skill issue from whoever you're buying from

​@@oni2inkwhere do you have that nonsense from? Resin is the most accurate consumer printing tech, period.

I think there are plenty of people who use resin printers improperly and spend far more than 4k without understanding the risks. SLS printers can cause long term toxic powder buildup it could literally spread itself around a building slowly giving people around lung cancer in the long run. The mfg could be much more clear that to fit the budget all safety items are the user's responsiblity and provide a clear list of required items for any standard procedure including spill handling.

You'd need more than a fume hood you'd also need an explosion resistant vaccum and ideally a dust collection system hooked upto a downdraft table where you can clean off parts and recovery the loose powder without any risk of it spreading. I highly doubt all the backers on kickstarter understand you need proper ventilation, cleaning equipment, PPE, etc... especially when the Micronics keeps saying it is super safe. If it was super safe you wouldn't need a mask, gloves, ... its literally a jug of billions of microplastics if you inhaled that bottle even a small fraction you will absolutely destroy your lungs permenantly.

@@riakata any sources to back your claims? + Tobacco is freely (restrictions may apply) available and widely used to _absolutely destroy your lungs permenantly_ :/

If you have dust accumulation from this printer your about one step away from a dust explosion. The area around the printer has to be keep immaculate even if it always gets covered in a fine layer of dust after use you must always clean up afterwards. Failure to clean up after a spill or regular use is literally a road to disaster. I would not want this kind of dust mixing with metal/wood dusts either that probably has all sorts of unpredictable combintations of danger.

Well they have glass and carbon fill which are already known lung cancer causing agents thrown into an ultrafine nylon powder that will get everwhere even if you have the proper equipment.

I'd prefer dealing with powder rather than toxic fumes. Toxicity means you can't be poisoned (as with resins).

​@@brezovprut4431Yes but cleanup requires an explosion proof vacuum. Non toxic yes but particles would pose a health issue

@@brezovprut4431 you can't be poisoned and it's a good point, but what about your lungs? I mean, very fine dust will be everywhere, even if you take care. You'll have to change cloths, and have a kind of "airlock" to not transport dust outside of the printing room. And even with that I'm pretty sure you'll breath some dust. The video really lacks information on this point.

@@oni2ink Never said and Its far from fine polymer powder being "healthy". Actually any fine dust (even wood) is harmful for lungs. Point of my statement is that IMHO its easier to take harmful dust under control than harmful fumes. I handled UV resins and I've no luck having tidy environment and clean air despite using advanced 3M VOC filters. On the other hands proper membrane filter can reduce fine particles from SLS powder almost entirely.

@@brezovprut4431 I bet it depends on your environment. I'm printing with resin on my balcony, so it's kinda straightforward to deal with the fumes. For powder I think you are a little too optimistic. Especially with this particular machine. Did you see the review made by Strager Parts? It's just a huge mess. I hope no one will develops lung disease after receiving their printer, if they receive it at all.

Yes, that fascinated me too. I wonder what else Unreal can do.

Yup and their customers are all drinking their coolaid and other people are going to pay the price because the powder can spread around a building if you don't carefully manage things. Non-toxic plastic doesn't mean it can't cause cancer when the microplastic beads of that get stuck in your lungs where your immune system can't digest a functionally inert plastic.

Well it seems to work well enough but even they said themselves that there's room for improvement and I can imagine having other types of powders is something they're gonna have to do just like how 3d printers started out with worse filaments than now

Carbon fibre "reinforced" filaments are actually weaker and more brittle. This exact channel has plenty of videos showing this fact. The fibre lengths are no where near long enough for the plastic matrix to effectively tranfer stress to the fibres to bear. The carbon fibre in these filaments has such a small length:diameter rario it's effectively just a particulate, and acts like an impurity, not a reinforcing fibre.

Yeah CF reinforcement from a fine powder is a joke

It just makes it even more toxic and weaker random chopped fibers don't improve strength they can make a part more rigid but you typically lose out on strength and toughness by gaining some in the surface wearing properties. Basically its only strong where the fiber rubs against something but the bulk is now swiss cheese with either glass or carbon dust in it.

Yes, you will. It's not specific to this printer, so you can get it from many sources (SLS printer retailers, Alibaba, ...) Just search for SLS PA12

You can buy the powder from many sources its the same stuff industrial printers use. Just be aware the powder is in fact toxic due to it being an intert but ultrafine powder. (Contrary to what the mfg says the SLS process is very dangerous if you don't follow all the best practices)

I‘m speaking out of experience, I have had my health impacted by a negligent engineer who installed a laser cutter inside a building and uses it to engrave a different material than the laser was built for. the cough won’t stop.

he just said "it's dangerous" and "this one doesn't have enough power yet". just need to supercharge the laser with a bigger one.

Honestly I'm skeptical that SLS can be made anywhere near as convenient, whereas FDM continues to improve rapidly. Even the isotropic properties can be just about achieved with the right choice of filament (less commonly used filaments like polypropylene fuse between layers much more strongly and so layer adhesion is much less of an issue, and better materials in the future will likely improve that for more conventional choices as well).

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a similar deal to fiberglass; technically non-toxic, but still abysmal for your lungs.

A slurry would definitely interfere with the fusing the laser would first have to evaporate whatever is making it a liquid slurry which would create a vapor expansion which would throw the hot bit of plastic around making a total mess. If you had a heat curing resin you effectively would just have an upside down resin printer which do exist the other problem with a liquid/slurry is it wouldn't provide enough support to make the prints support less.