I built a shalai and hallar deck a while ago, and I honestly love it. When I’m going against a more competitive table, I’ll run shalai, but against a more casual table I (normally) rule 0 retaliatory griffon as my commander and it’s still fun but much more balanced.

Sidar is fine. It only lets you draw ONE card no matter how many knights you swing with, and you still need to discard one after. The first eminence commanders were pretty busted, but the idea itself isn't a problem if the effect doesn't SCALE at all. It should only really have an effect that matters in the early game, and teeter off in the mid/late game as just not as good. Like Sidar.

I love videos like this. My playgroup is all about making the best strong sometimes most BS decks and it makes it easier for me to find the commanders i need.

I'm throwing a lot of grouphug draw in my Aclazots deck. I don't care about making my opponents discard to nothing, I just want bats.

Thank you for this! I'd actually love to see more of these types of videos. I think it would help a lot of players articulate (or alleviate) concerns around certain commanders being played in rule zero.

I built a Shalai and Hallar deck simply because all the tables around me play at a higher more competitive level and was openly being specifically targeted by certain people. After months of trying new tech, decks, tweaking, and play I got tired of having not won a single game so I decided to make something new and cheesy. The Result: I should have gone 3/3 (missed triggers on the first game and misunderstanding on keyword definition meant I would have won, won the second game because an opponent was about to go infinite and no one removed the combo so that meant there was no removal and I beat them to the punch, and at this point I realized I could win/hold my own so took a step back, played more relaxed, and threw the 3rd game but we all had fun) With friends or more casual groups I swap out the commander for Bright Palms or also house rule Retaliator Griffin as a commander (or if I have time swap out the combo cards for card draw and land). Is it strong? Yeah. Is it easy to build? I mean I am not a great player but I found success with it so yeah. Can I understand why people wouldn't want to play it? Yes, but I like it and so far no one has said they don't like playing against it, so I think I will keep this deck around for a while or at least until folks start to complain.

I respect your standpoint on eminence but I think its fine on Sidar. I am more annoyed by the engine/fuel design of commanders. I do own Sidar because I love Knights.

I haven't played MTG in ages. Interesting to see you and other players favouring non-instant win/non-annoying decks. Last I played, that's all that was around.

Shalia and halar has been my favorite commander. I use calix as the secret commander and semi voltron shalia with enchantments that can get pretty nutty.

Shalai and Hallar is so fun! It combos with a ham sandwich but doesn't need to combo to win. Just an all around fun deck that can go tall with counters or burn people out super fast.

I've got 1 friend who likes to counter everyone, 1 friend that plays innocent while they gain a million life, 1 friend that likes to pop every card that i play and get my life low when im not a threat, and another friend who has a crazy obsession with going infinite or being chaotic. Ive been waiting for a tap/untap commander for so long, and with all the bs that my friends play, i will gladly play hylda without hesitation.

My favorite deck I own is a mono black liliana heretical healer black control deck. It's all about discard and sacrifice. Honestly my friends like playing against it since it changes how they play their decks. That being said my friends are fine with stax and land destruction so high power high salt level is fine just be upfront about it so they can match it.

I hope there are more Eminence cards to support the tribes that need a boost. Because that's the thing, it HAS to be a tribal to work. All the eminence cards do have a restriction, and it's a deck construction one.

It is not about the Commander, It is about the cards around them. For example take out the combo pieces out of shalai and hallar and the deck is more friendlier. Just build a sideboard for powerlevel

9:36 Absolutely Busted. I built it pillowfort, giving my opponents lots of cards. Leaving them to fend for themselves killing each other while a instant speed respond with enchantments and artifacts. Mono white but w/ with Folio of Fancies, caphalod coliseum, and academy ruins

Man taught me to build Rowan, then forsake her..... jk, built the deck then hardly played it, not fun, minimal interaction, too explosive

I never thought to play Heliod that way and now I kinda want to build a deck around it.

22:40 Faces of the Past pairs really well with Hylda of the Icy Crown.

Still don't know why Golos is banned in Commander, but Rowan is legal killing you really fast. This card is not really starting the commander game...

I threw Aclazotz in the 99 of Isshin and when I did in one pod, they all immediately scooped. I was like wait huh? Then they humored me and let me play it out and I saw why. It's so back breaking if your opponents aren't set up.

The upside when playing Aclazotz: You get to say "look Ma, no hands !" and all of the other players at the table will laugh alongside you and a great time will be had by all.

It's easy to build a deck that can win fast/easily. It's more fun to build a deck that can win with flare.

I got a friend that plays aclazotz with oppression, painful quandary, waist not and all the Lilliana's caress effects suffice to say it's a very effective deck for him

When someone has a problem with cards like CONGREGATE being played as too powerful they don't seem like the type of person fun to play a game with!

Real title of video: Commanders that I got butthurt playing against

I’m glad you made this video. I see so many people fall into the trap of building these kind of commanders only to take it apart after 1-3 plays because it’s not enjoyable at all for the table.

I'm with you on most of these. Sidar is the only one that I might run after retuning the precon, for now it's still a precon. I look at most of them and go "Is this strong? Yes. Will this be fun for the table? Probably not." I still prefer Bright-Palm over Shalai and Hallar because it's just more fun despite being less powerful. Shalai and Hallar just feels too easy, you just throw +1/+1 counter effects in the deck and it practically runs itself. I have more fun finding my route to the win, even if it means I need to make a bigger board full of threats.

To be honest I kinda think you are wrong (if it is even possible since it's personal opionions lol). I think the beauty of casual commander is that you arent forced to build super optimized decks. You don't need to build some kind of combo Rowan deck where the point of the deck is to finish the game with some cheap combo every time. Why not build a deck around her ability to cheat some big creatures into play instead? Damn, maybe even some tribal or voltron deck? Same with Will since they are very similar.

Rowan + Defilers of Instinct & Flesh is going to be insane.

I keep Heliod and some wheels and finishers in the deck box of my Kwain deck, next to my tokens. That way if people want a higher power game, I just switch commanders and exchange some of my card draw beatsticks for wheel hell.

I have an entire color combo that I can’t/ won’t play. In my case I won’t play Sultai, it’s too easy, you have the best ramp, the best tutors, counter spells, graveyard recursion, and most of the best combos/infinites.

One rule our play group has is to announce any combos in a deck. We don't mind combos sometimes as long as they are announced so we can watch out for them.

I love Shalai and Hallar! I got the precon it was in and swapped it with the face commander because it's just so much cooler and better. I absolutely abhor infinite combos though so I refuse to put them in my decks. Without those I think it's perfectly fine. I don't understand why people are so sensitive and try to dictate what people can and can't play. In a lot of instances it just comes off as childish, and maybe this is not the game for them.

My biggest problem with a lot of these cards are that they are obviously designed for commander but printed in non-commander sets. Its always rough when your sealed rarers are taken up by these kind of cards.

Emminence got Mitch sounding like Sam I Am at 26:11, lol

Just got into MTG this year and Shalai and Hallar was my first deck ever (Bought the precon) I actually did some tweaks and ended putting the red terror, played it a few times to do the insta win combo and I can totally agree it kills much of the fun of the game, I removed the card since the place I visit to play is not really that competitive. Still, I think Shalai and Hallar it's an amazing and very, very fun commander, don't have much experience on magic but it totally recommend buying the call for backup precon for someone just getting into the game

5:41 me over laughing in Jin-Gitaxias at aclazotz. That’s some nice card draw you got, get rid of it now.

XD VERY FIRST ONE IS ONE IM EXCITED TO BUILD but completely understand why you and others dont wanna play/go against it.

I don't have an eminence deck, but i think I'll try a budget brew of sidar jabari. Been wanting to make a reanimation deck too so ill probably lean into that

The Shalai and Halar complaint is a weak one. "If you make 20 tokens you can put counters on them".....if you make 20 tokens, you're likely winning anyways. Is overrun unacceptable for the same reason?

Surprisingly, Heliod is more fun as a group hugs commander with Prosperity like effects...EVERYONE DRAWS X CARDS!!! Add in Non-discarding wheel effects and a Smothering Tithe, you can force opponents to deck out in as little as say...2 or 3 turns?

I get the "too easy" comment when it comes to shally and hally. Even in cEDH, it was easy to build and easy to pilot, even if it is a B tier deck in the format. I still love it though and its actually decently cheap to build and can stand up to tough tables

Newest add imo to this would be Voja, Jaws of the Conclave. Should’ve just been +X/+X based on number of wolves and had nothing to do with elves.

Shalai and hallar is my combo deck I run. It's fun 😂

Heliod warped eclipse should not work during your own turn. Blue white has enough draw that a 10 mana discount is basically "play my entire deck" but they also have enough instants that are totally fine if a commanders effect said "cast for free if your opponents draw too many cards"

I flat out built Rowan (my daughter's name) and have enjoyed it a great deal. She's wildly deadly, and can kill the group in around 4 turns consistently. But as Rakdos, our rather competitive group (not CEDH, but high powered) has a lot of interaction, and that makes it easy to fizzle Rowan out if you aren't careful. Will, however, is one I'm also working on, and I love the life gain mechanics for him. He's also heavy stax and has a LOT of interaction (counter spells, etc), so I think he will be better received and more overall fun to play. But janking the whole group with Rowan is a blast... literally (Banefire, Crackle with Power, etc).

I actually want to build heliod, but not as a “wheel into with X mana.” But more as an enchantment commander with a slight wheel subtheme (because who’s just IGNORING that?) I feel green/white(plus any other color) to be a bit easy mode with all the enchantment effects, so i either don’t want green or white. I feel heliod would be good for a windfall into a omniscience with some other wincon. Seems like a fun control deck.

Everyone hates discard until it saves them from the inevitable shenanigans of combos

Heliod and wheels makes Blue Sun into a full-auto nuke for people. Wheel, cast it for 1b for 22, then copy it with one of your now very cheap copy spells, then keep wheeling until you draw blue sun again.

My boyfriend uses a Heliod deck, and every single time, he’ll win, but the process of him having us discard our hand, draw like 50 cards, putting everything back into the deck, redrawing 7, discarding to hand size, repeat the process…is kinda fun 😂

I use Hylda as my police commander. I police the board lol. It's fun but no i didn't build it super strong. Eminence is super strong, no matter what. But there should be more but with more of a companion downside. Also, more partner and "partner with" and "background/ choose background" commanders. Imagine an eminence that says, "only works if you control 'Only' x things" like only Knights or only elves. And they could add "creatures with more than 3 types cancel this ability" to stop changelings

In defense of Will, Beacon of Immortality is that card that just goes "I gain 30 life, Entreat the Angels"

My play group has been fine with Sidar. We usually just do slightly upgraded precon power range though. So I'm not sure how a fully decked out one looks.

Are there any actual gameplay videos on this channel anymore and proof of decks in action?

Wouldn't shalai and hallar work really well with argorn, company leader?

I build a Rowan deck and tried it out thinking I would sometimes be able to get off a lethal one turn combo. Oh boy was I wrong. In every single test game I did I got to combo off on turn 4-ish. Of course that is with no interaction but still way too powerful and uninteractive for me. I'll try to build her without a single card which let's me pay infinite life points, maybe then it'll be a fun deck?

You don't know this but u are inspiring lots of casual players lmfao bro I love this episode I love playing against hateful players lol don't mind losing and the ppl that do this are a good challenge lol magic is magic

Problems at the table tend to arise not from specific commanders, but from general power level discrepancy. Not a single one of these commander decks I would refuse to play against purely based on the commander. Aside from Sidar Jabari who has an eminence ability in the command zone (which I agree is an unhealthy mechanic for the format), most of these other commander-centric decks are really disrupted by cheap and mana efficient removal spells people should be running. If you play into decks of similar power levels as yours and be sure to run a good interaction suite and none of these are necessarily a big deal. There's certainly commanders I'm not a fan of seeing (such as Jonah the Unifier), but I think the only deck that popped up and I refused to play against it all last year was Lightpaws.

Lol I waited the whole episode to see what broken shenanigans he would come up with as to why he won't play Sidar....and it's just eminence lol. All the others are "I go infinite or kill you in one shot"

Heliod gives you access to blue you don't need any wheels Just shit like rhystic study or the MOM Jin-Gitaxias if you flip him and you can flip him for 4 mana when you have 7 cards in hand and you draw cards equal to the amount of cards in hand plenty of ways to just draw cards in blue you mentioned brainstorm Sensei's divine top+reality chip you can just draw the top of your deck with top then for 1 mana play the top from the top of your deck So many ways to just draw cards

Crap i have 3 of these commanders! 😅 Sidar is so freaking cool though!

Come on, mitch, the bat god is awesome. I love magic. I love control. ppl have to learn to play dispell cards in the4e decks . Finally, you don't have friends when you play magic lolo good video.

I’ve personally warmed up to eminence for the most part. I personally don’t like playing against most Edgar decks but otherwise the trade off of playing such a weak commander for the pretty meh effect is something I again personally can totally live with.

I had a rowan and Hylda deck before, I really like the gameplay but I’m not the type of player that sticks with only one commander. And playing it over and over again became really boring. My pod also hates my Hylda since they can’t blocked or use their artifact rocks. The shalai card I really hate, esp when you are using it in a casual pod where players just do combat damage and not doing infinite pings.

Eminence is perfectly fine. Oloro has basically had eminence since forever, and while oloro decks can be obnoxious, it certainly isn't broken. You mentioned leylines, and people play leylines all the time. What about color identity? You get to play more colors than me just for picking a specific commander? Your commander has always given you a bunch of free benefits, just not always something so obvious as manipulating the actual game state from the command zone. In fact, a bunch of older commander cards interacted with the command zone in really cool ways. I would actually like to see more design space like this, where your commander has some sort of minor effect from the command zone, maybe something like derevi that gives you an activated ability so people don't complain about it being "free."

i like eminence. I would rather play against an eminence commander than say a chatterfang or ghyrson starn deck that wins on turn 2.

After taking a turn 4 loss the other day at a pod at my LGS, maybe some of these commanders have the juice I need to fight back.

Heliod had been so much fun lol. Cost reduction is cool, but everything at instant speed is too insane. No wheels. More of a "group thug".

Thanks for a list of decks to piss off my friends with.

I had a Hylda i just broke because after a few plays, I realized how easy it becomes a solitaire style of play. I rapidly lost interest after that. Ashnod's altar plus Opposition? You win.

Look at you taking the moral high ground.

I would like to see a mono white build for heliod. It would eliminate all of those easy wheels.

What an opponent ‘enjoys playing against’ usually isn’t a concern of mine. It’s up to them to make their own fun in spite of my best efforts to beat whatever they come up with.

Don't you lose with the red terror and shalai? Both those effects aren't may I thought if you made an infinite combo that you can't stop that you lose (or tie or something?)

Yeah i don’t make commander for other people lol. I prefer the challenge of having a target on my back.

Sidar Jabari is stronger than Edgar Markov but weaker than the Ur Dragon. He makes your deck unbelievably consistent with the eminence trigger allowing you to dig past a greedy opening hand, or to find answers (a lot of which are also knights), secondly his damage trigger cheats you in stuff you should not have like the elemental knights, the paladins of directions (northern, southern, eastern, western, and pentarch), returns things removed for a reason like herald of hoofbeats or vadolian wave knight, but best of all he rebuilds you after board wipes really quickly which is something Edgar Markov does not do. Never mind Haakon (who comes with the precon) is actually easy to use in this deck with the eminence trigger.

There was no Commander which could defeat my Goblins this Year! After 200 Games my Goblins are undefeated at my place!

If only Shalai and Hallar had access to blue I could team them up with Ghyrson Starn... Now there's some disgusting shenanigans

Heliod is so powerful, I have won CEDH games with Eldrazi Tribal 😅

hmmm idk why but the video title says commanders that you should totally play

Li-Fly-ink? Seems too close to be the new Flample. Maybe FlifeFlink?

I can understand the saltiness towards eminence but tbf towards Sidar Jibari his is by far the least offensive. The biggest offense towards the old eminence commanders besides it’s uninteractable is that you don’t even need to play your commander to get insane value from it. In Sidar Jabari’s case you actually have to cast him and have him interact with the board to really get any value out of him to begin with. Otherwise he just becomes a really meh looting ability, which I guess is better than nothing, but you’re also in blue so it feels even more unnecessary.

MTG Commander player: Yeah I don't want to play these because they aren't very fun for everyone else Yugioh player: If my opponent gets to play a single card I have failed as a human being

I guess shalai and hallar modular can be fun

it´s funny I played against Rowan decks multiple times now and everyone on the table just focuses on removing Rowan as fast as possible so I never saw it going off

The more i watch the commander quarters the more i realize hes just one of those whiny casual thats never played cedh

>my 20 card board wipe deck Me laughing in child of Alara

As someone who built Heliod before official release (and still plays him) yeahhh your table won't like him. My table doesn't like him. I love him tho 😂

As a Golos player, im surprised this video exists.

i play aclazotz on heavyt blue players :)

I builded Hylda when it cames out. I played it once got an OTK turn 6 with budget build around 45$...Commander is broken, i havent played with since. It looks awefull to play against, i actually felt bad winning this game. You just stop everyone from actually playing until you get the OTK.

9:01 I accidentally went infinite with Shalai and Hallar who I’d given lifelink and Archangel of Thune out. I just wanted an Naya Angel commander 😅

I understand eminence hate (even if I disagree), but out of all of them. You chose the weakest one for this list?

Commanders I won’t play: any “outside of magic” IP commanders

Flying lifelink flyflink.

why do so many cards spell complete as compleat

gaddock teeg single handedly ruined the day of commander. i took apart the deck shortly after

I really dislike the "team-up" legends from March of the Machine, probably for the same reason I hate Partner... it just feels so, lazy? uninspired? The Two Teferis! meme perfectly describes the set...

flying plus lifelink equals flynk

Woot