Hi ITWW, I too appreciate good design and K.I.S.S. ECM always among the best!

Hey SV, Thanks a whole latte for sharing your thoughts! Marc

Hi AR, You can do higher-end coffees with either machine with good technique but you will have better/easier temperature accuracy with the Classika.

Hi sufo, Thanks for the comment and question. A couple of key differences. The BZ07 is a heat exchange boiler machine which uses Bezzera's own BZ heated group. As an HX it can steam and brew simultaneously. Classika is a single boiler with E61 group. It's aimed more at espresso purists who do only very occasional milk based drinks. Overall quality of the Classika is a bit better than the BZ07 and the ECM Classika is available with flow contro of the E61 which opens up another level of espresso extractions. Marc

Hey AS, Thanks for the comment and question. Prep order is up to you. Time to heat up to steaming is longer than cooling down from steaming to brew temp.

@@Wholelattelovepageok that makes sense, what sort of time are we talking?

@@VideoBoutiqueAust 20-30s to go from brew to steam, so I would brew first. It's perfectly fine for Latte all day. What wouldn't work is 20 guests arrive and tuey all want a cappucino at the same time. That's in my oppinion when you need an HX or DB. But this nonsense about needing one for 2-5 people has to be dispelled. Especially with an open kitchen/living room it might take 10 min until everyone has their coffee but there's no need for a dual boiler. And a quality single boiler such as the Classika but even a Silvia can easily froth enough milk for 5 cappucinos, so you make your shots, hand out the espressos and then foam the milk in one go, pour and serve the milk drinks. Of course if you sell Dual Boilers it is in your interest to point out the absolute horror of having to wait half a minute to froth, while the better temp stability and steam pressure of a single boiler vs. even a PID heat exchanger and therefore hogher drink quality is often left out. Now there are very good HX machines like the Appartamento or the MaraX and the Synchronika that have good temp stability but those cost quite a bit more. Sorry for the rant :) And if you actually try making 20 shots back to back they drop way down in temperature. It's in German but Kaffeemacher have an excellent HX video that analyzes the 12 most popular HX machines. Only one made it through 5 shots in 5 mins without a temperature collapse.

Hi LH, Thanks for sharing your thoughts - the Classika is a beauty!

Hi DK, Thanks for the comment!

Hi Richard, Thanks for the question. Order of steaming and brewing comes down to personal preference. Around the shop here there are many opinions. Personally when I use a single boiler I prefer pulling a shot first.

@@Wholelattelovepage I prefer to do the reverse because i can cool the boiler down faster than I can heat it up. Also I think a lot of folks put the shot, heat the boiler to steam and then leave the boiler without flushing out the hot water and refilling boiler at the same time. I am guessing that this is why people keep destroying their heating elements on some single boiler machines. I am using a Auber PID on a 2009 Silvia. I'm on my second portafilter gasket, but I bought silicone and I just replaced the boiler gasket a month ago. The heating element looked like darker copper with nothing on it like a penny. There was some minor scum in the water that looks like the stuff when you boil meat and that light brown stuff from the blood floats to the top, and that was it. I pull a double, followed by a double shot in a cappuccino daily. I run the heck out of it a parties and holidays. There is a home automation switch that I use to trigger the machine via GPS location as I come home and the same system shuts the machine off after 1.5 hrs to stop me from leaving it on for too long. People call me up and don't just ask me if they can come over, they just say "Is Silvia on?" or " I'd like to schedule a meeting with Silvia". Either that or they come over and stare at it to see if they see the temperature display on the PID.

@@Todd.T An auto (and remote) power-on device sounds like an awesome idea.

@@TheCuriousOrbs Well, Silvia is resting on another countertop 4 minutes from my house on the same type of home automation system. I have a new home automation system doing the exact same thing on my Rocket Giotto Evoluzione R. The Canadian version doesn't seem to have an ECO mode but the home automation takes care of that. Other posts are asking, so I'll add that I put in a Profitec flow control valve and it works no problem.

Hi oe, If you're okay with the wait for steam then the Classika is fine.

Hi s, Thanks for the question. The Classika is very stable and a popular choice for those only doing espresso and not about the milk drinks so much.

Hi JJ, With PID, the Classika has far more accurate brew temps than the Appartamento. As a non PID machine with HX boiler you will almost always need to do a cooling flush of the Appartamento prior to pulling a shot. If you get the hang of that it's no big deal other than making more of a mess dunping water into the drip tray. What the Appartamento does the Classika can not is brew and steam at the same time. The flow control will fit in the E61 group of the Appartamento but we do not offer it that way. Marc

Whole Latte Love would you guys do a review on that machine but with flow control fitted?

The BZ07 has a water spout. With the Classika, can get water through steam wand by opening without flipping the steam mode switch on. With most machines though, probably better results using a kettle if you can.

Theyre all more expensive than I can afford. Hows that for an optinion ??? :(

Hey James, Marc here from Whole Latte Love... Thanks for the question. Timing for the second round of steaming will be similar to the first. Keep in mind you will need to cool down the boiler after steaming and before pulling another shot. Depending on how big you make your lattes you may be able to steam enough milk in one round. The classic latte recipe uses a 1:5 milk to espresso ratio. So you should be able to make 2 x 6oz/180ml lattes all at once. Pull a double espresso into 2 cups and start with about 8oz/240ml milk and froth to stretch to about 10oz/300ml. Anything beyond that size and you'll need to make the lattes separately. I do not know what your budget is but there are HX machines with PID like the Profitec Pro 500: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine Which will speed things up. Hope that helps!

Whole Latte Love It helps a TON. Thank you!

James Orr my pleasure! 🍵

Whole Latte Love Steaming the milk for both really sounds ideal. I’m learning more precise language for my questions from your responses. :) I believe the better way to frame my question would be to ask how long it generally takes the boiler to cool down after steaming before the machine is ready to pull another shot. Do you think it would be ready to go after grinding the beans and tanking them? Thanks for all your time this morning. I think I’m hi-jacking your morning!

Hi S, Thanks for the question. For sure you can on any ECM, Profitec and all the Rocket machines with E61 group. We've tested that. Marc

Hey V, Both machines are equally capable of producing the crema. How much it produces comes down to other variables like the coffee type used, grind size etc.

Hi, ECM PFs and Bezzera will fit each other in most cases. One catch, the tabs on Bezzera PFs are at 2 and 8 o'clock while ECM tabs are at 9 and 3. When PF is locked in this may cause an odd angle to the spouts relative to the machine/drip tray.

Nice subject to be handled on a video! Would help a lot picking up the right choice. Thanks!

Hi Roger thanks for the comment. Not at all opposed to organic milk from paper carton or reusable glass. I draw the line at unpasteurized. A friend was telling me his story of pretty much drinking straight from the cow. Now that's organic with added organic material like dirt and hair and it's already warm! :) Marc

...ah i get it....not a problem if you dont have milk!!

Probably a cost thing

cost thing. Also, IMO, easier to maintain than one with a HX.

Also depends on how much and how often. I don't tend to make more than one or two coffees per session so a single boiler works fine for me at the moment, even with milk based drinks. I guess if you are making a fair few after dinner coffees, or find the additional process steps annoying, the heat exchanger works out a better option. Or at least that's what I would think.

Some people dont do milk drinks thus dont need a second boiler.