Comparing Burton (Minie) and Pritchett Bullet Velocities

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Comparing Burton (Minie) and Pritchett Bullet Velocities

Рет қаралды 14,955

3 жыл бұрын

I compare meticulously accurate re-creations of the most common historic U.S. and British/Confederate cartridges, which saw extensive use throughout the American Civil War. The results were exactly as expected, and velocities matched published historic sources. Measuring velocity could be accurately done, even in the 19th century, using highly accurate electro-ballistic pendulums (they were more precise than most of the inexpensive chronographs available today!).
For a much fuller and more detailed discussion of the rifle-musket, the importance of the dangerous space, and the paradigm shift in tactical thought that the rifle-musket started, the book “The Destroying Angel” may interest you: www.amazon.com...
And for more than you ever wanted to know about the Enfield cartridge (with a history of the development of rifle-musket ammunition in general), see “The English Cartridge” here: www.amazon.com...
This is old video from November 2020: I am still deployed and any background noises in the audio are from my inconsiderate neighbors in the barracks.
www.papercartr...

Пікірлер: 73

@Dv087 2 жыл бұрын

Very informative. I have an 1861 Springfield. I have cast my own minie balls. I placed an order with you 2 years ago. I have since moved to Camp Hill, Harrisburg area from Frederick Maryland. Being so close to Gettysburg, I will have to reach out to you and make an appointment to come to your shop. I went to my gun club July 9th 2022 and fired roughly 100 shots of all the older minie balls I had cast over the years. I also shot the one package that I ordered from you 2 years ago. The accuracy of your replica package minies were very good. I can't say after such a long day my shoulder was having any fun especially the next day. I had a figurative and literal blast spending the day with "me old Springfield".

@papercartridges6705 2 жыл бұрын

You’re practically my neighbor! Glad the old bullets shot well for you.

@Dv087 2 жыл бұрын

@@papercartridges6705 absolutely I lived in Frederick I can't count how many times I've brought my sons before that my wife before that my girlfriend's to Gettysburg. I said to your channel I watched nearly all your videos. Some are hilarious.

@johnfisk811 3 жыл бұрын

Bravo again Brett. The Burton was cheaper and easier to make and make up as a cartridge than the excellent, but complex, Enfield so made sense for an ill trained mass Union army, whilst the superior Enfield made sense for the small but professional professional army and had the potential to help redress the size differential of the smaller Confederate army. Had they the skills to make use of the superior effective range and dangerous zone of the Enfield cartridge. A brief video comparing the fouling would be instructive.

@1kreature 10 ай бұрын

Remember that a chronograph will give an error in relation to angle bullet passes through it. 15 degrees downwards slope is a registered speed reduction of almost 3.5%.

@leighrate 3 жыл бұрын

The Pritchett was obviously designed with the levee en mass in mind. In terms of rifle bullets, 20% is a lot. Or to put it another way: 900fps at 200 yards means you will kill one man, and probably wound the man behind him. 1200fps at 200 yards means you will kill the front man outright, kill or mortally wound the man behind him and very likely do great harm to the man behind them. That would be devastating against a Napoleonic Column.

@Losantiville 3 жыл бұрын

Pretty good on one or two ranks also!

@leadshark9461 3 жыл бұрын

What do I see? 👀 Might this be another excellent video? Why yes it is. Hope you guys stay healthy!

@tacfoley4443 Жыл бұрын

The great pity of it all is the I don't live in Gettysburg, or even the USA!!! All this fun stuff with your beautiful bullets is just impossible to emulate here in UK.... :=(

@brankod495 3 жыл бұрын

Here is a thought, did the slightly faster rate of fire of the Pritchett cartridge actually give a noticeable advantage to the Southern armies?

@papercartridges6705 3 жыл бұрын

The Confederate Ordnance Bureau thought the Enfield cartridge was definitely advantageous, and there are quartermaster officers letters from the armies to the Ordnance Bureau, requesting more of “the English cartridges.” So they definitely felt it conveyed an advantage.

@brankod495 3 жыл бұрын

@@papercartridges6705 I am most familiar with the eastern theatre of war and looking at the engagements between the ANV and the Army of the Potomac. The ANV for the most part tended to be numerically inferior but took that initiative in many of the engagement and so even a small advantage in rate of fire would be helpful. Even though the engagements were fairly close up.

@titanscerw 5 ай бұрын

Can wooden dowel based Prichett (or is it Boxer bullet) can it be shot effectively from Lorenz? Seems to me as much easier to load projectile.

@94thohio577 3 жыл бұрын

Great video! I am interested to know the bullet diameter of the Burton ball, and if the Pritchett used has the base plug. Thanks for all your work. Wish you and your command a safe, speedy return!

@papercartridges6705 3 жыл бұрын

My Lyman cast Burton’s are sized .575 but historically they were swaged .5775 at first, then reduced to .574 to allow them to be used in imported Enfields. Yes, my .550 Pritchetts use wooden plugs turned from hardwood dowels.

@cetyl2626 8 ай бұрын

So how did they measure the velocity back then? Perhaps it was derived backwards from energy delivered? I.e. How far a steel target swung back and knowing the mass of the bullet one can calculate what the velocity was?

@papercartridges6705 8 ай бұрын

Correct. They used a pendulum of known weight, and fired a bullet of known weight into it. How far the pendulum moved could be mathematically converted to the velocity.

@user-sz5mg5ou3f 5 ай бұрын

Great music on the end. What is it🤔

@thess344 11 ай бұрын

Period music a nice touch.

@hector_mattenheimer 3 жыл бұрын

Great video, very informative and direct to the point!! Keep the good work guys! Could you make a video on the Lebel Mle 1886 rifle? I would like to see your thoughts on the rifle just as you did with the G88

@papercartridges6705 3 жыл бұрын

Yes the Lebel project is coming, I have a Lebel with a mint bore to compare to the Gewehr 88. That will have to wait a few months, I’m still deployed and should be “home by Christmas.”

@hector_mattenheimer 3 жыл бұрын

@@papercartridges6705 Oh God, Brett, you know how that promise always ends... hahaha!! Thanks for the reply

@jesseusgrantcanales 2 жыл бұрын

@@papercartridges6705 Would it make a difference if you used GOEX powder instead when you did the Burton/Pritchett comparison?

@davefellhoelter1343 2 жыл бұрын

WOW these velocities and those bullet weights, WOW! Pritchet had it all over the others! Velocity is distance and accuracy, and these are Effective Uses of an Advantages. What would I want to take to WAR?

@MarioGarcia-pq9pr 2 жыл бұрын

Why do you hit the cartridge against the muzzle of the musket? And how does it make the paper almost seem to explode revealing the bullet? I've never seen that but it fascinantes me

@papercartridges6705 2 жыл бұрын

That’s from the early (1855-1861) version of the cartridge, the manual called for sharply striking it squarely over the muzzle to separate the bullet from the cartridge paper. It works great. The cartridge is a little complex to make so they simplified it for mass production in 1861, and it couldn’t be used the same way. Soldier would have to rip open all the paper by hand.

@Schlachtschule 3 жыл бұрын

Great video, but biting is so déclassé. And thank god the Trent affair sizzled out!

@papercartridges6705 3 жыл бұрын

Oh I agree, I feel like such a philistine biting open a cartridge. But the things I do for historical accuracy!

@Schlachtschule 3 жыл бұрын

@@papercartridges6705 You do it so we don't have to. ;-)

@themischeifguide 3 жыл бұрын

I know that Confederate Sharpshooters preferred the British made ammunition to their own, and that the Confederacy was making Enfield and Burton style bullets along with Gardners. I'd like to see how Pritchett's and Burton's stack up against Gardner's. I know the Gardner bullets had a lot of issues.

@stevensheldon9271 3 жыл бұрын

It would be interesting to see what the velocity of the Burton ball would be with 68 grains of powder behind it.

@papercartridges6705 3 жыл бұрын

I think it would be too high, at risk of flaring the skirt and leaving leading.

@KW-qq7nu 3 жыл бұрын

@@papercartridges6705 perhaps worth a brief experiment by swapping powder loads used for each bullet, albeit we know today's BP is nothing like that of the 1860s.

@therainbowgulag. 3 жыл бұрын

Great video. Love your sister channel FTG too.

@jeffreyrobinson3555 2 ай бұрын

Why was the Minnie slower? Was there that much gas loss waiting for the skirt to expand?

@papercartridges6705 2 ай бұрын

It had to be kept fairly slow to avoid leading the bore. The Pritchett had a paper patch jacket and the lead didn’t touch the barrel, so it could be fired a little faster.

@jeffreyrobinson3555 2 ай бұрын

@@papercartridges6705 never thought of that, I’m a round ball and 75% of my shooting is smoothbore, and leading has never been a problem

@Guntank214 3 жыл бұрын

Is there a noticable difference in felt recoil between the two cartridges? And in another note is your 1861 a repro? And if so made by who?

@papercartridges6705 3 жыл бұрын

Oh yes the Enfield cartridge recoil is significantly stronger. My 1861 is a very old Armi Sport repro.

@CheemskoGiondau 2 жыл бұрын

But did the iron ram rod can destroy the gun barrel i've heard some of my friend say i need to change the ram rod from iron to brass or copper to prevent damaging the barrel too much it is right?

@papercartridges6705 2 жыл бұрын

The ramrod can slowly damage the end of the gun barrel. Many people use a brass or wooden rod to protect the muzzle on original or valuable rifles.

@CheemskoGiondau 2 жыл бұрын

@@papercartridges6705 but can you explain for me how could an iron rammer can slowly damaging the end of the barrel but the brass or wooden rammer didn't do any damage to it like overall you just ram the bullet down the barrel how can the wooden , brass rammer didn't damaging the barrel but the iron can ??????

@CheemskoGiondau 2 жыл бұрын

Why don't the army just change the ram rod on the rifle with brass or wooden instead of iron to prevent the soldier to slowly damaging their rifle during combats fighting or when the soldier doing a fast voley fire and need to reloading the rifle fast as the could and that could end up some soldier will heavely damage their rifle

@thomasbaagaard 2 жыл бұрын

@@CheemskoGiondau It is not a question of damaging the muzzle in combat, but that you over time, will wear the muzzle. If a gun is used in peacetime year after year after year. it will matter in the long run. wood can break. Brass is too soft a material. Some armies used ramrods in steel, but with a tip of brass. It gave the best of both, but cost more to make. The danish army issued old smoothbores to all soldiers to use for drill, field exercises with blank ammo and similar. and only used their newer riflemuskets for live firing. This way the rifled guns was not worn over time by their peacetime use.

@CheemskoGiondau 2 жыл бұрын

@@thomasbaagaard got it , thanks friend , and i know that too some guns like : lorenz 1854 infantry rifle ,.... also got that brass and steel ramrod design

@lutzderlurch7877 10 ай бұрын

Mildly wondering if there is any reliable hard data on 18th C. round ball velocities.

@papercartridges6705 10 ай бұрын

We do have some data from the early 19th century, the round ball .69 was measured by ballistic pendulum (which was quite accurate) to about 1500 FPS.

@lutzderlurch7877 10 ай бұрын

@@papercartridges6705 I think I have seen a mid 18th C 'treatis on gun powder' claiming a musket to be 1600 or so fps, but it never clarifies which countries feet etc. and it always sounded rather suspicious to me to read about supersocin round balls from muskets.

@rjohnson1690 Жыл бұрын

How were they measuring velocity in the 19th Century?

@papercartridges6705 Жыл бұрын

They used a device called the ballistic pendulum. They are still used today when very accurate measurements are required. They are even more accurate than modern optical chronographs, just a whole lot more trouble and work to use.

@knightman4574 3 жыл бұрын

Cool I love this..

@Guntank214 3 жыл бұрын

I kind of hate how pretty your cartridges are. Why can't I make cartridges that look that good?

@papercartridges6705 3 жыл бұрын

I make them for a living so after tens of thousands, they get easier! Just keep practicing.

@Guntank214 3 жыл бұрын

@@papercartridges6705 made a bunch more and I think I'm getting my technique figured out. What kind of paper do you use for the various parts of your 1855 cartridges? And what formulation of lubricant are you using? It seems a lot softer than the mix I've been using. If you don't me asking of course.

@igon5176 6 ай бұрын

How were velocities measured in the 1800’s?

@papercartridges6705 6 ай бұрын

They shot the gun into a pendulum, and by measuring how far it moved, they could very accurately determine the velocity of the bullet. The ballistic pendulum is still used in some fields today because it’s actually even more accurate in measurement than a modern optical chronograph.

@saxon1376 3 жыл бұрын

I understand moulding bullets but I have no idea what suaging is ? Sorry about the spelling

@HomesteadingPatriot 3 жыл бұрын

The lead is cold pressed by force into shape as opposed to melting and pouring.

@papercartridges6705 3 жыл бұрын

Basically it’s squeezing a piece of lead into the right shape in a die. If you search for “bullet Swaging” you’ll find a lot of info, and it’s definitely gaining popularity!

@johnfisk811 3 жыл бұрын

FWIW the older name was ‘swedging’ and now ‘swaging’.

@GreetingsandSalutations4007 Жыл бұрын

What music starts around 0:30?

@Losantiville 3 жыл бұрын

That much difference even under 200yds is significant! It’s energy delivered on target and penetrating the poor soul hit. Did the Confederates purchase British molds or bullets? What about US enfield ammunition? What about a wood plank penetration test at various ranges. One may have a better ballistic coefficient. Don’t you need same charges to truly compare the individual bullet?

@papercartridges6705 3 жыл бұрын

The Confederates purchased molds, made their own molds, and also purchased English made bullets that were run through the blockade. The US never adopted an Enfield cartridge; instead the US bullet was reduced to .574 so it would fit in Enfields. I used the historic powder charges, since that’s what they would have used and I am interested in comparing historical performance.

@Losantiville 3 жыл бұрын

@@papercartridges6705 your videos and diligent answers lead to both you books having a place in my Library. The references I’ve seen say the Springfield could place 10 shots in a 4 inch bullseyes at 100yds. I suspect modern reproduction Springfields are not as tight in tolerances as originals. Conversation to allin was done enmasse across manufacturers. Modern repro repair parts often require custom fitting from the same manufacturer. Where not the synder conversion done on an individual basis because of variation in tolerance?