That's amazing! Looks like our Commodore is getting a turbo with it's supercharger!

Dammit, man. I'm building a 3.8 SC Fiero. Keep up the tech talks on these engines... I have TWO grand prix gtp drivetrains on the way for my conversion. i could use some ideas ;)

7psi is a pressure ratio of 1.48 10psi is a pressure ratio of 1.69 Multiplied is a pressure ratio of 2.5 Which is a positive pressure of 21.8 seems negligible considering we dont have the raw data and we don't know in increase of the air temp. Awesome video, love seeing actual engineering in "real world" testing!

Richard holder On one of his videos Gail Banks discovered that you can compound into a turbo because it likes high airflow But the positive displacement supercharger wasn't making very much additional horsepower when they compounded a turbo into it.. but it was producing an excessive amount of heat. Gail hypothesized that the blower doesn't like being compounded into it so if you could compound the blower into the turbo that would be ideal. Would be nice to see that blower, into an intercooler, into the turbo, into an after cooler, into the intake. Should compress the air most efficiently without excess heat

Perfect timing. Just sat down with some Italian food on the couch ! Also had a n/a 3800 in my Oldsmobile when I was a kid. Always wished it had a blower !

Love it!!! I think this series is going to surprise ALOT of people!!! 1000hp or bust!

So a lot of guys who run the turbo and the blower will setup the bypass valve on the supercharger to open once the turbo starts producing some boost. The theory is that the turbo is going to be more efficient at making power so with the bypass valve open the turbo does all of the work and keeps the temps cooler, and reduces the parasitic loss from the blower. Then they would just reference total boost pressure from the turbo for the wastegate but have it set higher than what the supercharger can produce I personally have always wanted to try it the way you did it here, I figure why not let the supercharger compound it a bit if it's going to be there and just run an intercooler and/or E85 to keep things cool. Run a large pulley with the M90 to minimize the amount of heat it's making and still benefit from having the blower but let the turbo do the heavy lifting on the top end

Running the individual coils looks pretty nice on the 3800 compared to the coil packs.

Love seeing this, the 3800 finally getting the recognition it deserves. I hope he tries doing some testing with just a turbo alone. Should be some interesting numbers than.

That torque curve is sick. This thing will be wild with a cam.

Fantastic. Shows how well the charger helps the turbo spool, as that's a lot low down from the turbo. Love it

If I was to run a set up of this nature, I would go with a larger turbo. With the supercharger hitting down low, you don't have to worry about lag anymore and when the supercharger runs out of steam up top, thats when I would have the turbos come alive. Best of both worlds, toqrque down low and top end power of a turbo

This would be a nasty drift setup. I love it!!!!! Been waiting a long time to see this. Thanks Richard you’re the man!

Keep the 3800 vids COMING!!! Thank you good sir.

I loved this motor in my fiero. I wish i never sold that car. I will own another and after seeing that torque curve and 12psi at 3300 rpm i think this is how im doing my next car. Thanks man. Sick videos!!!!

Sweet test!! Priceless info bro! That's why we keep watching... 😎👍

I love compound. I did this to a Probe GT back around 2006-2007. Trapped over 120mph in a probe, lol.

Looks like you needed to regulate the wastegate post-blower to like 18 PSI for street maybe? Perhaps get more turbo down low and less pressure up high maybe? What would this have looked like with the larger blower pulley? VERY interesting Richard!! More compound testing please - this is really cool :)

This is pretty cool! I would love to see a 5.3 engine with a 671 blower with a GT45/7875 combo would do! Keep the amazing videos going Richard!

This is what I am talking about. I have wanted to do this with the 4.0l v6 Mustang,lol wow!!!

WOW. Excellent work Richard, interesting video!

Keep it coming Richard ! Loving these videos

Super cool. I bet the drivability would be great on that combo.

Next step: swapping to n/a manifold, w straight turbo? Amazing work as always

very cool !!!! id really like to see a 4.3 vortec test with a 3582, gt45, 6262 ect...

this is possibly the coolest test yet but flipping pistons would smooth out the boost from supercharger .too soon?

Thank you for all the interesting tests

really interesting video .Great work

I want to see what this engine can handle..... I feel its coming soon!!! Btw... that tourque curve is beautiful 😍

I saw a compound setup like this at motorama Toronto a few years ago in a Toyota or Nissan 5.7 v8 , in a cool classic JDM car.

I think the cylinder heads and cam are terrible. Fix this and the boost will drop at the high end with a massive increase in power.

I have seen this on 4.6 sohc motors. They ported the blower a little bit to allow the turbos to contribute better.

There are other precursor engines to GM 3.8L V6, including the 3.3L V6 and the 3.0L V6. Do a stroker V6 for quicker boost and awesome HP gains. My former Pontiac Grand Am had a NA 3.3L V6 and OEM roller/hydraulic cam, just get larger valve covers to fit roller rocker arms and an easy 5-10 HP gain. Boosted, but only if the lower end of the engine had lower compression pistons and gas ported rings. Hint, hint, when porting heads, open up intake ports for better volume and minimal smoothing on exhaust ports for higher velocity, port matching, volumetric balance for best results. Now you have a selection of OEM roller hydraulic cam options, I wish you well.

@Richard Holdner. I rev my motor to 7000rpm with ls7 lifters, double roller timing chain, big cam, stock pushrods, rockers, etc. I have a buddy who revs 7800 rpm

Thank you Richard very much appreciate the Buick v6 supercharged turbocharged compound combination, it's time to move on up to the current stuff that people are running today since you're all about the other guys engines, let's get a late model gen-6 Camaro 2.0L 4 cylinder turbo strap that puppy on up to your Dino and let's make some noise, and I have you know GM also made a 2.5L version of the same engine that was not available on the gen-6 Camaro, now that is something you might want to look into as well, you can get these engines relatively affordably, I can tell you this I own a 2018 Camaro with the 4-cylinder Turbo and I managed to get the car as fast as 1260s in 1/4 Mile and to my understanding there is more performance to be had from this combination, show us how it's done!...

I made Pistons for this motor. Great stuff.

Look at this and really see the benefit the Thunderbird SC had with its intercooler. Even with first Gen blower made more torque.

That's awesome, now I really want to see what kind of power it can actually make/handle.

I looked up some forum posts about this that were posted like 10 yrs ago and wow, people just didn't have their facts straight concerning the math on how this works, whether it could be done and what and how to do it. At lease with this engine. I want to build up my daily driver SSEi like this but not do it exactly the same. not with the exact parts Richard used and stay with the OE PCM if that could be done. Richard used a series 3 which has the powedered hot forged steel rods and I'm still running a set of nicely customized Cast rods and OE pistons but really would like to build my engine with a set of moly rods and forged pistons, and a bit less compression ratio to assist with the turbo part and the higher boost pressures. Get it down to closer to a flat 8:1 instead of 8.5. And install the intercooler, Air to water. under the S.C'r, wondering how it would work to have a cooler after the turbo then under the charger, if the heat exchanger would be able to handle both cooling cores?

Great video Richard, is the answer for the people chasing power from the l67 v6 cheaply

A 231 Cubic inch engine with an M90 Eaton blower is "like" a 321 cubic inch engine normally aspirated. Add an M112, it's best assuming it is a 343 Before Turbo. So the extra compound boost isn't really limited by the extra "aluminum Eaton Lung"...your better off assuming it's now a 321 V8....before Turbo. The extra cubes of any postie displacement Roots style blower is about as volumeteically efficient as the engine it's sitting on is. VE tops out on both the 231 GM3800 and Eaton M90 at about 65% at peak rpm.

Compound turbos on a straight 5 or straight 6. Torque curves on those little motors is pretty amazing curious if a boost curve could be made to use the available torq throughout entire RPM. GT2860 and GT3582?? Possibly slightly larger big turbo.

Cool, now we want to see twin turbos with a 671 blower on a big block running E85...HOLY SHEEEET!!!!!!!!!

Great video, although I don't exactly know how it works (just my lack of reading and no first hand experience). However it would seem like doing something like this would improve the efficiency of the engine even though a roots style supercharger uses the engine to turn the rotors (I might be entirely incorrect though).

Every time I see you and a 3800 I get excited can't wait for more. Super excited to see turbo only. What 80lbs were you running in this vid?

I do so love this build/platform ..

I would like to see an NA series 3 (cast not plastic) upper and lower intake manifold on this before doin head/cam work. Would like to see boost levels to make the same horsepower. Also zzp makes an insert for them to supposedly help flow which would be another thing I would like to see dyno numbers on.

You have one of the best jobs ever

I would've added the smaller pulley and see what it would do. I know the supercharger alone petters out around the 400 range. But I'd port it to see the difference to.

No idea why you do this but fascinating all the same!

Hell yea! I hope to see turbo only till she blows video!

Let's make some noise!

These engines were popular swaps into Toyota Hilux/Tacoma in Australia with conversion kits

We need to see this same setup with that kenne belle you tested! Also I'd like to see what kinda power changes it makes going from e85 to say, E70, or E50, or even E25, because around here we only see 50-75% ethanol at the pump 90% of the time.

Let’s go !! Exciting times !

I have a mercedes E55 that I added a turbo to. I added a PT6870 to the factory blower with stock pulley. I wanted more power and wanted to keep the brutal bottom end the E55 is known for. The project is a success! The car is a beast to drive and makes everybody scratch their head when they see it. I do suffer from a total lack of tuning support on the platform so a stand alone ECU is in the works for winter. Then I will turn it up and see how it goes. I have a banks data monster and I still need to add boost and temp taps out of the turbo and out of the blower to get more data, but my lack of traction show it is making a lot more power than before. I don't have any good video of it but there are a couple clips on my KZfaq account. Thanks Richard for the content I love it!

Compound setups Stack Boost! AKA Adds to the primary Boost and HP!

Rising boost curve --> no intercooler --> the pressure will increase? But I would expect your E85 runs on the stock setup to have revealed this.... Boost should multiply, not sum (use Atmospheres not PSI) Instantly, the coolest engine series on KZfaq

I wanna see you get ahold of an even bigger supercharger for sure

Probably need to port the blower and bigger throttle body for huge gains.

That’s a cool video, how about removing the supercharger and running 22psi just from the turbo? Would be great to see the comparison peak power

Thank you richard

This combo just gets better.

last time i saw a blower being fed by a turbo on a gm v6 was a old detriot diesel 6v 92 engine.& it was only rated at 300 hp & 950 lb/ft. if i recall correctly.

Richard you did well on the subject of needing a turbo cam for turbocharging have you ran a solid roller cam with hydraulic lifters or hydraulic roller cam using solid roller lifters, if not it would be interesting.

I would like to see a test between a certain boost level into the intake of the supercharger with a stock 3.8 pulley, and then running the smallest pulley you have with a lower boost into the supercharger. It would be cool to see if the restriction people complain about with compounding these engines is only due to a stock pulley and not spinning the supercharger very fast.

In Aust we just built Chev bow tie V6, twin 3582 turbos. with all the good components. interested once it hits the dyno. we will let you know how it goes !

Great stuff. Are you going to test this engine, with just a turbo ? Thanks for all the testing you do for us.

Please: Run a test with a hobs switch activating the stock bypass on the supercharger at 18 PSI and turn the waste gate on the turbo up to 25 PSI or so.

So I'm guessing the missing variable for the extra boost is the percentage of boost the blower is at over atmospheric. So in an equation it would look something like this 10+7a=23 guessing at your barometric pressure for that day I'm assuming about a 75% increase over atmospheric with blower only so if u solve for a=1.75 or 75% it comes out to 22.25psi and that's pretty close for what it is! So Kool that the blower boosts the boost!! Love your videos bud keep up the great work!

Question can you do the same on the Ford 3.8 V6 wonder what you can get out of those engines as well.

lets see a video about that terminator compound dyno you mentioned!

If you've ever been ready to load in a motor on a dyno and got a bog and a pop,,, GO AHEAD AND HIT THAT SUBSRIBE BUTTON!

If you want a ridiculous "other guys" motor? You should try a twin turbo setup on a 2000-2004 Ford 3.8L v6. I had a 2000 V6 Mustang with a twin turbo that made 370 wheel horsepower and 398ft-lbs at 13psi with a pair of t3/t04 hybrid turbos. Wasn't as fast as a cobra, but the insurance was way cheaper!

Very cool!!!

the supercharger multiplies the incoming pressure ratio. You should have ended up with 2.37:1, or just over 20 psig. So you're getting a little bonus, or some sensors aren't reading exactly. fwiw, Harrop experimented with the 1.9L TVS blower (as on the LSA) on the series 3.

This is awesome. Do have a test with this same combination running the same 22 psi with the turbo on its own? How much power do you think it would make with no supercharger?

Love this.... mauh please!

I was hoping you would get around to doing a compound setup. They were very common in Detroit diesels that I worked on many moons ago .

okay, so why I would consider a supercharger and then a compounded turbo later, is I'd be using a vvt 1.6L engine that doesn't make a ton N/A maybe 95hp at the wheels but would build it for high rpm. I'd consider a compound dual turbo build, but I'm not sure if overall engine response would be worse, as I believe superchargers effectively increase lower rpm torque as well as overall torque vs a gradual increase with a single turbo

Could you one day do a dyno comparison with Aviation 100LL . A lot of people I know use it in two stroke race bikes

Can we get a cam or a higher rocker ratio for this? Let it breath a little more.

You are the man.

Best YT ive watched this year. Thank you for doing this!

I would love to see this setup actually in something, I think a Buick Park Avenue would be awesome.

That boost curve with just the blower are you sure the blower isn't worn out I can't remember if that supercharger has internal seals

My understanding of compound boost systems is you multiply the individual pressure ratios together, not add them. So the turbo running 7psi has a PR of 1.4 and the supercharger at 12psi has a PR of 1.8. 1.4 * 1.8 = 2.6 (39psi) which is about 24psi(gauge) Really starts to make a big difference when the PR's are over both 2 (14.7psi)

Your compound boost setup worked better than Gale Banks'! The next part of the test that I hope you do is to run the turbo alone at the same intake manifold pressure, and see how the power compares.

Right on

Interesting... I've got a series I L27. I also have a pairs of pre-series I LN3 heads, and one piece intake manifold (which I believe the intake can be mounted to a L27?)... Don't care for plastic intakes (plastic anything)... Any way, I haven't seen anything regarding the LN3, or L27 on your videos, but perhaps you can give me some advice in interchangeability, or differences compared to the 3800 engines you've built.

We learned more is better! Always.....Better.

The Agent of chaos is in the house

Not only is this one of my all time favorite engines,.. it's also so fucking easy to work on !!!!

Richard is the mad man of westtech

Something like this in a chevette would be pretty fun.

Can you do a dyno on the L32 Gm 3.4 V6 from 93-95 Camero / Firebird some of these come with a five spd

I have a supercharged v6 I am wanting a eBay turbo added in not sure what I'll need besides a tune an to keep it street legal not sure if that would be possible but

Best Video yet

Great video! But I'm willing to bet, at this power level the blower is redundant. The turbo by itself should be able to do that easily.

See what it will handle. Blow it up!!!