obsessed with the fact half of all smash characters in history fit into the loser archetype

"Luigi is a Loser Luigi" is the most Luigi thing possible.

The “Loser” archetype makes far more sense than it has any reason to

Great thumbnail, Coney is the definition of the Scammer archetype Kazuya being the Luigi of Luigi archetype and not Luigi both a true and HUH kind of statement.

I think coney is a Clown Scammer hybrid character

Ngl, this list is a lot better than chat seemed to understand. They were looking at isolated elements or hyper-extremes of characters and games--Coney was looking for cohesive summaries of the archetypes and characters that were best rounded to fit them.

I'm really glad he just pulled out the fuckass extra 4 categories. This is why I can always trust Coney to deliver.

What I love about videos like this is that everyone thinks Coney is just shitposting, but you can tell when someone doesn't know when they're talking about and are just saying something to rankle people up. Coney has examples and from what little competitive Smash I've watched, learned, and been involved with, his logic is consistent, it just sounds weird to someone on the outside. A lot of the examples people brought up were very basic or based on aesthetics, like how a lot of people wanted to suggest Incineroar for grappler just because he has a bunch of throws. Coney has a lot of experience and he's not afraid to say something that sounds weird if he genuinely believes it's true but will shoot down people who are just trying to be contrarian. Coney likes to rile people up and shoot them down, but he is speaking from an educated position. It's silly, but it all lines up. I think you'll learn a surprising amount from Coney if you assume a lot of what you think is just jokes is actual genuine knowledge.

“Jumplord” & “Loser” are such good descriptors I am all for adapting them

7:26 "And if you're not wobbling then you're doing some fuck ass pass off combo, which is more of a puppet thing." 13:15 "Brawl Ice Climbers are not a puppet character."

Melee falcon over small mii brawler for a brawler is crazy

i wanna defend coney on the meta knight/bayo/steve thing, those characters are so much stronger than the rest of the cast and so flexible in what they can do that they do not fit into any archetype cleanly. they transcend catagorisation through sheer strength. Though brawl ics not being the grappler was crazy i cant defend him on that

honestly i feel like coney is spotting on this one. Also as soon I saw Luigi as a category my mind immediatly went "Kazuya Mishima"

Coney being in the scammer archetype is mad funny

I don’t know what the fuck any of this means

kazuya being put as best luigi in smash is the funniest shit i have seen today

If we're putting those last archetypes into traditional fighting games, Jumplord: Hazama Loser: SF4 Dee Jay Pacifist: Taokaka The Fantastic Spinning Surprise Killing Robot: Nagoriyuki

It's funny how Steve fits into at least half of these archetypes. Including Loser arguably, he does not function how he's supposed to. With Bayo or MK, they feel like they were designed to be a certain way, but ended up being really overtuned. Steve feels like he was designed to be a certain way, but ended up being so overtuned in other areas that it overrided his original design

“Kazuya is the best Luigi ever” This is the insight im subscribed for

When you hit us with that hidden 3rd row, then everything made sense. Loser as an archetype is mind blowing.

Haven’t watched the vid, but I assume the Luigi archetype is touch of death

This stream was horrible, I loved it

Classic coney forgetting about the strongest heavy to ever exist; 3DS Bowser

I think the best characters of each game perfectly exemplify smash's lack of clearly defined character archetypes. The reason the best characters are so good is because they can kind of just do whatever they want. Brawl meta knight is fast, has a shitload of jumps, and can glide. And that makes him really strong offensively, but that also makes him really strong defensively, and he can just choose to disengage if he wants. Smash 4 bayo could try to fish for a zero-to-death, or she could just wait for you to come to her and just kill you off a witch time combo. And steve can just do whatever the fuck he wants at all times. Smash is weird because the best characters aren't just the best characters of a given archetype. They're the best because they don't fall into an archetype

I like how this turned into Infinite Craft at the end XD, just creating characters from elements

for the "brawler" archtype I actually think melee Falco is the best example. He tries to slow down rushdowns like Fox and Falcon, so he can win scrambles close-up. He relies on mix-ups and can't really kill in one combo like a Luigi. His laser is a zoning tool, but he has to be close to actually get damage and kills.

Love that the Fantastic Spinning Surprise Killing Robot also includes Incineroar. That's just funny to me.

Since Coney doesn't fuck with 64 like that the archetypes go something like this if I'm trying to stick to the Coney categories Rushdown: Pikachu Zoner: Fox (laser goes stupid in 64) Link Jumplord: Kirby (also a swordfighter) Jigglypuff DJ Armour: Yoshi Luigi: Captain Falcon (f throw up air up air up air up b) DK Loser: Samus (charge shot the character, only character in the game with a bad combo game) Brawler(read as gets walled out by half the cast): Mario Ness Luigi

I've followed Smash for years and I still don't know what the fuck to make of that tier list with like 15 characters in the Mario section. Little Mac being in the Jigglypuff section was the final nail in the coffin for my confusion. (Even if you’re saying Little Mac only stays in one place like Puff, then why the hell is Pichu there) What the FUCK is going on in that list!? Anyway good video Coney. Glad to see one of my favorite content creators make another list that pisses off their community :)

Elizabeth from P4A is a Luigi

i think mario baseball is a swordfighter

The like and subscribe buttons have never once lit up at the end of a video lmao

Funny how ultimate rob could be all of these categories

The funniest part about Sonic being the best Pacifist is that it’s not necessarily antithetical to how he behaves in his home series. There’s some games and extra material where he’s just- Not really there to beat anyone up at all.

1:15 I made it onto a Coney video. I have peaked

BRO WHEN IT GOT TO BRAWLER I LITERALLY SAID OUT LOUD MELEE FALCON AND I WAS RIGHT

This has unironically changed my perception of smash archetypes and I hope people define characters as these 12 categories or any combination of them going forward

So makoto from street fighter 3 third strike is a Luigi by your definition of killing you on 1 interaction with a grab

So glad the Loser category exists. We finally have a place to put all three versions of Lucas.

9:10 "To get through tight spaces, press the circle button to slide."

I remember someone calling the smash equivalent to the shoto archetype the plumber archetype and that has not left my vocabulary ever since

Luigi not being the best Luigi is very on theme

"There is no other game that has a Jumplord!" There's a certain Stand-having bird that may disagree with you there...

Someone in chat was cooking by saying 3rd Strike Makoto is a Luigi.

alternative title: man yells at his chat for being wrong for two hours

I want to see this done like Rockman's list where every character has to be sorted into one archetype.

"Melee Marth can't kill for shit" HUH

I definitely think Incineroar is more of a grappler than Brawl Dedede. What you're not understanding is that a grappler is not simply a character who's grab leads to good damage, a grappler is entirely built around their grab. They're usually slow and have good strike/throw mixes. Some other good examples of grapplers in Smash Bros would be Bowser and Ganondorf, who (at least at lower levels of play) often revolve around their command grab side-B. Combo grapplers are a sub-archetype that gets scary not because of their throw, but because of what the throw leads to, similar to Luigi.

12:37 You could be right because Rosalina and luma was amazing in Smash 4 but ice climbers in brawl was the second best fighter in the game only losing out to Meta Knight

"he who hold it, stolds it"

13:06 shoutouts to the editor for pranking coney here. This got me good

I think there's something so funny about defining different game iterations by "Melee X" or "Brawl X", because it leads us having long legitimate thoughts on the nature of characters being named as "Ultimate Wario" or "Brawl Pit". Like those are just silly names don't you think

As an ex pro SF4 and Melee player here is mine for melee: Rushdown: Fox, Falcon, Pikachu, Pichu and Luigi Brawler: Doc, Mario, Kirby, G&W, Falco, Ganondorf and Bowser Zoner: Samus, Link, Y. Link, Puff, Peach, Zelda Grappler: Icies, DK, Sheik Swordy: Marth, Roy DJC: Yoshi, M2, Ness

1:27 Wow apparently I'm just not a Pac-Man player, that archetype is just 90% of the characters I'm horrible with

I feel like if we aren’t including olimar or iceies, then Rosalina is just the only puppet character, no? Like what’s the point of having puppet as a category when only Rosalina fits it?

This is unironically the most helpful video ever at helping me understand smash character archetypes. Great job!

I like how R.O.B. is the best in every category so he gets disqualified for not being "just that category"

Great argument about both the top tiers and low tiers not being automatics.

Normally don't watch coney opinion pieces but his smash opinions are always fun to watch

As a R.O.B. main, proud he made it as the Fantastic spinning surprise killing robot. Was worried Smash 4 Mario got that category.

I’ve never seen a more accurate thumbnail in my life

The bonus categories cracked me up LMAO

I suppose one way to argue a characters status in an archetype is.....what happens if you take it away? If you take away chain grabs from Dedede he's dogshit, as he has been in 4 and Ult without any discernable identity outside of ledge trapping IF he hits you. At least Incineroar has Armoured moves and Revenge to allow him to get in and start smacking you.

Not doing melee marth for swordie kinda crazy tbh

The only take away I have from this stream is Smash players have no clue what any of these terms mean

This is my first time hearing of all these archetypes, and even *I* knew from the moment he explained what a Zoner was that it was going to Snake

"Luigi" should genuinely be considered its own archetype. Any a fighter who defaults to relying on their Grab when their kit either lacks synergy, or doesn't function as intended, is a "Luigi". - Kazuya - Luigi (Wii U) - Luigi (Ultimate) - Pit/Pittoo (Ultimate) - Dedede (Brawl) - Sora - R. O. B. (Ultimate) - Meta Knight (Ultimate) And those are just off the top of my head. The "Luigi" archetype could actually be useful, and should be adopted into Smash terminology... like, unironically.

One of the best coney vids in years. Not only did I laugh out loud many times, but there’s genuine knowledge here

I love duck hunt, such a fun character to play casually. I think if I had to choose one for looser it has to be banjo, just because he feels SO weak!

After seeing the smash marathon Coney did, I'm sure this will be well informed and have no biases Edit: Icies ≠ Cause it's a glitch and abuse of grab infinite Inciniroar ≠ Cause he imposes a threat in an area of the screen that limits your choices (actual command grab btw) DDD = Cause it's a glitch that abuses infinite grabs and imposes a threat to area of the screen(?)

As a Luigi player, Luigi is an archetype.

"grappler" me:i swear to every fucking god if coney doesn't say incineroar" coney:"i see a bunch of people saying incineroar".....me:-ignites a match and starts running the gas-

I've just realized this... Makoto from Third Strike is Luigi

can we put jigglypuff in the surprise spinning death robot category since her neutral b is a spin

If only there was a common name for characters that kill you in one touch. Yknow, like, Touch of Death.

This some insane Ice Climbers erasure I'm seeing. They could be considered the best grappler, best puppet and best luigi all at the same time.

I think ultimate samus is at least a contender for the zoner category. Simply because her charge shot is so overtuned that it literally plays neutral for her, coupled with her obscene grab range and a massive fair to catch anyone jumping over the charge shots.

This was entertaining. It’s so interesting how different platform fighters are from traditional fighting games. I loved how the chat went ballistic any time Coney opened his mouth.

To me a great brawler is defined by forcing scramble situations rather than rushdown trying to have their turn infinitely by never stopping going in. Melee Falco would be my pick. Bruiser’s I’ve always thought as just grappler with more safety. They can’t really force a whole lot but what they make up for in that weakness is the most monstrous punish game that almost forces you to respect situations you don’t necessarily have to. 4 DK is pretty good, but Warioware Incineroar deserves a shout out.

my friends always made fun of me when i played dedede in brawl, i feel so vindicated rn

As much as I want to defend Brawl ICs being the best grappler, I'd argue that was more of a mistake in design than anything. As a person that plays grapplers in fighting games, no (normal) character makes you feel more tense about risking being grabbed than Brawl Dedede. He's also got some strong beefy buttons that feel like a grappler (utilt, bair, dtilt, fair).

Hear me out, the only other smash character that could qualify as a puppet character is duck hunt (the can is the second closest thing to a puppet)

13:06 Thanks editor, very cool footage :)

I thought this video kinda sucked until the twist at the end. W Also, Coney is mega biased. He just wanted to include his brawl main

This had such inconsistent standards, probably Coney''s best engagement fish

This list is like so incredibly accurate I was pleasantly surprised :) good job Coney! Only thing I’d change is maybe s4 sheik instead of melee falcon?

I forgot Ridley existed until the very end

These are archetypes I've just never thought about probably cuz I don't play very many other fighting games besides Smash Bros. I mean I have played some soul caliber games and Tekken games and got familiar with a few of them. I barely played any Street fighter games despite the fact that I grew up in the '90s and I barely played any mortal Kombat games, but yeah I mostly just play Smash Bros and just love playing that so I wasn't too familiar with these archetypes but this was still a very interesting video to see all the way through

18:24 was that a Kung Pow reference

Loved the marketing monday for unemployed people joke lol

Coney stole my MONEY!!!!

This video has taught me that Inciniroar is this omniscient God that somehow transcends every archetype combination possible 👍

"Incineroar is not a grappler" > down throw combos, all other throws kill, side b is a command grab... > OKAY CONEY

19:02 Unnecessary Inkling slander

Nothing gives me more joy than looking at chat and seeing “more tiers”

"The best Luigi there has ever been in any Smash game is Kazuya. It's actually Kazuya."

I didn't know snake was a heavy, never rlly got the definition tbh

Kazuya being the best Luigi archetype is the type of things only Coney would come up with and still make perfect sense.

Jumplord Pacifist is Brawl Meta Knight and my evidence is every M2K timeout set.

Surprised he didnt put a special category for all the obscene broken characters who does everything. Moreso because i know Coney just like making the categories