Conversations at the Crossroads of Nature and Wisdom

Рет қаралды 3,163

Күн бұрын

Kyle Koch is a facilitator at Evolve Move Play, where he integrates dialogical practices into natural settings to foster deep personal connections and psychological growth.
Have you ever wondered about the impact of our environment on our cognition and ability to connect with others? In this episode of Voice with Vervaeke, John and Kyle explore the integration of dialogical practices within natural settings, the psychological and communal impacts of such practices, and the potential for deep listening to forge powerful, transformative experiences.
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community! / johnvervaeke
We invite you to sign up for Evolve Move Play's "Embedded Experience" weekend workshops with Kyle Koch. Register at www.evolvemoveplay.com/weeken...
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"Memory is about the future. It’s not about the past. Memories reconstruct and reconfigure in powerful, often unconscious ways to improve your ability to foresee in a relevant, realizing manner, the future." - John Vervaeke [25:13]
"Rituals only matter to the degree to which they transfer broadly and deeply into many domains in your life and transfer broadly and deeply into many layers of your psyche." - John Vervaeke [57:27]
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0:00 Rekindling Connections: Dialogue and Nature
4:50 Environmental Impact on Cognition: Embodied Practices and Deep Listening
13:10 Evolutionary Impact of Campfires: Hypnosis, Shared Attention, and Ritual for Cognition and Connectedness
11:00 The Role of Deep Listening in Dialogical Practices
22:50 Ritual and Long-Term Change: Reconstructive Memory and Internalizing Wise Spirit
29:30 The Role of Place and Virtual Reality in Storytelling and Evolutionary Constraints
32:40 Navigating Virtual Technology: Maladaptations and the Importance of Wisdom in Epistemic Vulnerability
41:00 The Evolution of Evolvability
50:00 The Power of Pilgrimage and Serious Play
59:30 Language and Expression of Transformation: Connectivity, Aliveness, and the We Space
1:06:40 Conclusion and Upcoming Opportunities for Embodied Experiences
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Join the Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world. vervaekefoundation.org/
Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today. awakentomeaning.com/
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Follow John Vervaeke:
johnvervaeke.com/
/ vervaeke_john
/ @johnvervaeke
/ johnvervaeke
Follow Kyle Koch:
/ trottingsparrow
www.evolvemoveplay.com/
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Thank you for watching!

Пікірлер: 67

@X11bl 11 күн бұрын

“My experience in the world now has language.” What a start. 🚀🚀🚀

@trottingsparrow 11 күн бұрын

Life changing❤

@lukeguhy6450 9 күн бұрын

John, I am so fortunate to have been doing this stuff my entire life. Part of the reason your work was so resonant for me. Having a collaborative campfire conversation with you two not only sounds interesting, but it sounds more interesting than most everything else I want to do. I would love to chat with you about this stuff virtually and hopefully one day from the same firelight.

@trottingsparrow 6 күн бұрын

I'm always up for virtual chats, and the in-person experience will be indescribable.

@beyondourselvespod 11 күн бұрын

Thank you Kyle and John! I am a deep admirer of both of you. I am very close friends with Jake who was mentioned in this conversation. I’m working in Muir Woods right now as an environmental educator and I am working everyday to spark interest and connection in the outdoors for kids. Would love to talk more with both of you about all things environmental engagement, circling, and Dialogos. This all resonates so much!

@TheBlackAce21 7 күн бұрын

You both knocked it out of the park. Thank you both. We need to think how to incorporate these ideas into our education system.

@trottingsparrow 6 күн бұрын

I think we need to disrupt and reorient our current education system.

@colorfulbookmark 10 күн бұрын

Dr.Vervaeke is great man and many people could learn from it.

@trottingsparrow 10 күн бұрын

Modern day sage

@trottingsparrow 11 күн бұрын

Super stoked about this. Please let me know if you have any questions or if anyone want to express these topics further.

@BeMotley 10 күн бұрын

Highly recommend attending one of Kyle's embedded experiences!

@andrewgray2029 10 күн бұрын

Kyle is definitely John's spirit animal

@trottingsparrow 9 күн бұрын

This is soo good. we need a meme for this.

@ben-sanford 11 күн бұрын

It is good to see you both in dialogos around something that is so real yet unrealized. It is deeply sacred to me and has so much to offer🌍🔥🙏

@trottingsparrow 11 күн бұрын

Thanks for all the ways you've contributed to this conversation seen and unseen

@darshanr2369 10 күн бұрын

This conversation has been powerful and one I will becoming back to for experiential work I am thinking on and developing. My life changed when I ventured into Men’s Work in nature on a New Warrior Training Adventure weekend. So much of what the two of you have discussed, speaks to ideas I have been having and yet, this conversation brings even more fuel for what I am working toward. I am definitely interested in finding a way to to take part in a weekend with Kyle or the future Vervaeke Weekend you’re also talking about. Thank you both so much!

@trottingsparrow 10 күн бұрын

Thanks for sharing. I am also working on a side project to bring this ecology of practices into men's work. Let's have a chat. Hope yo see you at one of our Embedded Experiences

@SarahWalley-vp7ef 11 күн бұрын

Thank you, again, for access to conversations like this one. I work in a lab 40+ hours a week... without windows, ha!

@JakeEatsPizzaRolls 11 күн бұрын

You KNOW I'm interested in the campfire Dialogos! So great to see you two together and I look forward to participating in whatever fruits come from the intersection of both of your work.

@trottingsparrow 10 күн бұрын

Thanks for being a catalyst for these coversations

@howiewhitehouse1202 11 күн бұрын

For urban hyper-differentiated folks the return to Nature is in itself a Practice.

@trottingsparrow 11 күн бұрын

Exactly we need to bring back our Natire Connection practices

@lilah.healer 11 күн бұрын

A fascinating conversation which gives different words, same meaning and experience, to what I see in my work as a seer and healer. We cannot discount the "Human Energetic Environment" - the fields of unseen energy, which make up our multidimensional experience. I am really enjoying your conversations John and very excited to have finally found a scientist who speaks my language. Thank you, Lilah (Cape Town, South Africa)

@BeMotley 10 күн бұрын

Please seriously consider holding that retreat! 🔥🔥🔥

@trottingsparrow 10 күн бұрын

Can't wait. Gonna make it happen one way or another

@nathanchasse8189 4 күн бұрын

Agreed!!

@slicersharp 11 күн бұрын

Wonderful ! Always enjoy listening to your conversations

@trottingsparrow 11 күн бұрын

Thanks for sharing

@erjonsadiku5341 11 күн бұрын

Thank you for doing this? I appreciate what you share from your deep knowledge❤❤! Next to my books I have three of your five little statues. The images of the nature on this video, are beautiful, never seen before'''!

@mills8102 11 күн бұрын

This notion of epistemic vulnerability is an important flipside of epistemic humility. This whole discussion was very, very resonant for me personally. Dialectic into dialogos has been transformative for me and actually has provided a great framework for exploring the development of social skills. I really like the characterization of 'deep listening exercises.' Great framing. The exploration of memory is very important. This wasn't directly discussed but the blending of working memory and the subconscious is an important area that has a lot of variability and merits investigation. Spiritual language seems to be an incredibly rich and efficient signal and take this as a plus or a minus but it doesn't lend itself to conscious manipulation from within that space. It is predicted on surrender (which leads into that space of vulnerability). Thank you both very much for another very fruitful discussion. 🙏

@trottingsparrow 11 күн бұрын

Thanks for the reflection. There are so many directions we could have gone but you gotta follow the logs amd go where it leads.

@adamthompson1300 5 күн бұрын

I'd be interested in this!

@trottingsparrow 5 күн бұрын

Yes🎉 our Embedded Experiences is a good way this year otherwise John and I will be bringing thisnto life in the summer of 2025

@jgarciajr82 10 күн бұрын

I'm close to Boulder, Colorado. I'm interested in growing up 🙏🙌❤️🤯🔥👍🤔

@trottingsparrow 10 күн бұрын

We are hosting an Embedded Experiences near Boulder June 14-16

@projectmalus 10 күн бұрын

Had to pause at evolving the evolvability. It seems to me that observing and memory are very close and the evolvability is also the allowing of space here for that assertive ingress of environment to be coherent. The playing with this space takes two avenues, the 3 card monte of suggested value in divided and sequestered bits, where splitting the thing up more gives more, and the chopping up of time and juxtaposing it in a way which messes with the propositional. They both seem to be the result of a feeling of superiority over nature and parents who want the best for their kids, entitlement and permissions. The entitlement itself messes with the propositional (observing curtailed) and memory with backwards looking permissions and its ownership difficulties. I like how a corporative model for ownership of this type of wild space can allow the right size of family to refresh the individuals and provide a safe space. When outsiders want to succeed in rural areas the residents respect big money, speculators or not, the speculators are your competition and they have lots of capital. Group of hippies can succeed but they get isolated. The corporative model in business seems to go wrong when that family is played with, chopped out of the commons and sequestered, assigned family values in an uneasy context with the uber value from the higher level and the entitlement with legal permissions as buffer. A new political level is possible there between family and municipal, where the size of the community isn't given to the control of propositional speculators. Like the other, it's just another form of capitalism where the efficacious size of the group falls into the 3 card monte played from who controls capital, where too big and too small are advantaged. A food forest in or around the community solves the most for the least and is wall dissolving trust builder space that provides a yield and income. Loose templates can govern where ownership is confirmed. Make these the hubs. Thanks for the video.

@andrewgray2029 9 күн бұрын

I'm interested in learning more about supporting the VF, and embedded and dialogical practices.

@lukeguhy6450 9 күн бұрын

Ditto

@trottingsparrow 6 күн бұрын

stoked ! it's gonna happen summer of 2025 stay tuned!

@trottingsparrow 6 күн бұрын

@@lukeguhy6450 stoked ! it's gonna happen summer of 2025 stay tuned!

@camorion1 10 күн бұрын

I’m definitely interested in participating in an in person VF and Kyle Koch event. I hope it happens.

@trottingsparrow 10 күн бұрын

Definitely have to make it happen. It's not an option at this point ❤

@XC0r3 11 күн бұрын

The meaning is ones descriptive experience. Ones path is ones definition

@danchiappe 11 күн бұрын

The Baldwin effect :-)

@johnvervaeke 11 күн бұрын

Yes!! Thanks Dan.

@markosimic1096 6 күн бұрын

I would be interested 😊

@trottingsparrow 6 күн бұрын

stoked ! it's gonna happen summer of 2025 stay tuned!

@howiewhitehouse1202 11 күн бұрын

At 40:00 question arises how to translate qualitative meaninfulness into quantitative practice ?

@trottingsparrow 11 күн бұрын

Yes, a very left brained logical approach of finding balance. This is more clear in physical adaptations using the idea of time under tension. But even in the reps and sets frame intensity can enhance or inhibit progres. There is no clear way forward but we need to try.

@rsandy4077 11 күн бұрын

What does “martial arts” resources mean?

@trottingsparrow 11 күн бұрын

Can you clarify what this is in reference to?

@XC0r3 11 күн бұрын

Collective

@mellonglass 10 күн бұрын

I am happy John is decommissioning the present ecology of academia, that is dry, linear, mean and memory dependant. What use is memory retention if we use the practice of knowing where to find knowledge? Collective amnesia of nature? The reason to exist without names and labels, because names and labels prevent the story of wonder. Eckhart Tolle said as much, enter the forest without your present book of names, a tree is never just a tree, nor is it all the names we thought of, because of the fear of knowing. Time of mental change is a honeymoon period, the mind has a medical application of time, the doctor recommends two weeks and then return, the hope being, the truth of healing is 13 days and maybe 15 is close to no return. A practice is not a thought, but a time with. The telling is always, ‘go practice’ the resistance is always, ‘I don’t have time, I know enough’. Knowledge over experience, opinion over conversation, conversation is the sharing of opinions. I’d argue a ‘silk road’ has no virtual setting, that the word is convenient to the reality. Understand this, astronauts camp together, so they know each other to exist under the most extreme dependence’s on each other in the future, anyone can do this.

@trottingsparrow 10 күн бұрын

...no two trees are the same to raven no two branches are the same to wren. If what a tree or a bush does is lost on you, you are surely lost"

@Jacob011 11 күн бұрын

Niche construction?

@trottingsparrow 10 күн бұрын

Conveying out niche is so hard

@Jacob011 10 күн бұрын

Every time Kyle says "like", take a shot of vodka - you'd be dead a quarter way through.

@trottingsparrow 10 күн бұрын

Hahaha I know I'm so ashamed 😢

@toneyoursoul 5 күн бұрын

@@trottingsparrownothing wrong with filler words! Besides, *you* were the one on the call with John, not the other way around, so nothing to be ashamed about 😎

@trottingsparrow 5 күн бұрын

@@toneyoursoul thank you. I'm just hoping it doesn't take away from thr message or take peoplenout of the experience

@knoweagle888 10 күн бұрын

The Tao that is told cannot be known The way that is shown is not your own As above, as soul below Yin and Yang and Ouroboros Forty days and forty nights The darkest days forewarns enlight The Unus Mundus, the Axis Mundi Your inner compass will guide you through thee Dante’s and Virgil’s inferno journey The Duat retaught the justice and mercy A sacred plane of many names Arcane domain no frame profanes The Few have seen where Jacob dreamed Therein between each conscious stream…

@geoffreydawson5430 11 күн бұрын

I want to have a normal job. Makes my mind boggle as to why people join TV cooking shows or wilderness adventures. Probably my upbringing. I once was trekking alone, lost in pouring rain wadding down a flooding river trying to find the hut I was staying in that night. I was about to sleep under a rock when a light shone on the other side of the river with no source of illumination. There was a sign saying HUT. My head torch batteries died as I entered the hut. Just one of many bizarre holy spirit experiences. You are not earth, fire, wind or water. Or a theological entity for politics. Bring all that energy going out back into your heart. Oh. From a Forest tradition perspective. I know academics use Zen (adaptation of Buddhism with Western philosophy) for its adaptability, I have been there and done that. Bored the crap out of me. Meaning crisis? Neoconservatism.

@bunjidogg 11 күн бұрын

Thes guys in academia live in their own reality.

@trottingsparrow 11 күн бұрын

I think we all live in our own reality. That's why I believe in the importance of being in a shared space/environment so we can better share the reality

@mellonglass 9 күн бұрын

Refugees of spirit, meeting the pilgrimage in words, headed by the natural world to participate in. It’s not an asphalt highway, it’s the stuff without the feed pipes of the matrix. Suddenly intelligence looks fun in its awakening of philosophy meeting the dictionary of derogatory terms. Hunter gatherer = gardener, observer, grazing, planting, experimenting, living in, learning and finding home place within nature, not above it. Lex Fridman goes to the Amazon, it’s a movement to live experience, not be a Jurassic tourist in fear of 100 years in Disney monsters, ladybird books and gentrified rationality in the romantic telling of the fictional world, or even the writers with PTSD who never swam with whales.

@user-ekqy11kb 11 күн бұрын

انَا اختكمَ مَن اليمَن وّالَلَه ماتكلمتَ الَا من جوّع وًّمَنَ ضَيَقَ الَحَالَ انَا وًّامَيَ وًّاخَوًّاّتَيَ تَشَرَدَنَا مَنَ بَيَوًّتَنَا بَسَبَبَ الَحَرَبَ نَحَنَ فَيَ حَالَهَ لَايَعَلَمَ بَهَا الَا الَلَهَ حَسَبَنَا الَلَهَ وًّنَعَمَ الَوكيَلَ فَيَ مَنَ اوًّصَلَنَا الَى هَاذا الَحَالَ 💔💔وًّالَلَهَ الَعَظَيَمَ مَا كتَبَتَ هَذا الَمَنَاشَدَهَ غَيَرَ مَنَ الَضَيَقَ وّالَفَقَر يَاعَالَمَ حَسَوّا فَيَنَا ارَجَوّكمَ وّالَلَهَ الَعَظَيَمَ رَبَ الَعَرَشَ الَعَظَيَمَ انَه الَاكلَ مَا فَيَ عَنَدَيَ بَالَبَيَتَ وًّالَلَهَ يَا اخَوّانَيَ انَهَ اخَوًّاتَيَ بَقَعَدَوًّ بَالَيَوًّمَيَنَ مَافَى اكلَ وًّالَلَهَ وًّضَعَنَا كثَيَرَ صَعَبَ نَحَنَ 4 نَفَرَ دَاخَلَ الَبَيَتَ وًّابَيَ مَتَوًّفَيَ وًّلَا يَوًّجَدَ مَنَ يَعَوًّلَ عَلَيَنَا وًّسَاكنَيَنَ فَيَ بَيَتَ اجَارَ لَانَسَتَطَيَعَ دَفَعَ الَاجَارَ الَلَيَ بَاقَيَ عَلَيَنَا ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' اخي اول كلامي انا اقسم بالله على كتاب الله اني لااكذب عليك ولا انصب ولا احتال اني بنت يمنيه نازحين من الحرب انا واسرتي بيننا ایجار الشهرب 20 الف يمني والان علينا 60 الف حق 3 شهور وصاحب البيت من الناس الي ماترحم والله يا اخي انه يجي كل يوم يبهدلنا ويتكلم علينا ويريد من البيت للشارع لانناماقدرنا ندفعله الأجار شافونا الجيران نبكي ورجعو تكلمو الجيران ومهلنالاخره الأسبوع معادفعنا له حلف يمين بالله هذا بيخرجنا إلى الشارع رحمه واحنا. بلادنا بسبب هذا الحرب ولانجد قوت يومنا وعايشين اناوامي واخواتي سفار والدنا متوفي الله يرحمه ومامعنا أحد في هذا الدنيا جاانبنا في هذه الظروف القاسيه اخوتي الصغار خرجو للشارع وشافو الجيران ياكلو واوقفو عند بابهم لجل يعطوهم ولو كسره خبز والله الذي له ملك السموات والارض انهم غلفو الباب وطردوهم ورجعو یبکو ایموتو من الجوع ما احد رحمهم وعطلة ردها لقمت عیش والان لوما احدنا ساعدنا في إيكيلو دقيق اقسم بالله انموت من الجوع فيا اخي انا دخيله على الله ثم عليك واريد منك المساعده لوجه الله انشدك بالله تحب الخير واتساعدني ولو ب ||| ماتستطيع مع تراسلي واتساب على هذا الرقم 00967716649494 وتطلب اسم بطاقتي وترسلي ولاتتاخر وايعوضك الله بكل خير اخواتي سغار شوف كيف حالتهم وساعدنا وأنقذنا قبل أن يطردونا في الشارع تتبهدل أو نموت من الجوع وانا واسرتي نسالك بالله لولك مقدره على مساعد لاتتاخر علينا وجزاك الله خيرا`/-.؛;،:,~«☽« :☽؛ΠΠΠΠ💔💔💔ππππ↑؛؛ا̫̠̜̥̊̾̉͌ا