Keeps the food and bugs off your face and chicks hate facial hair...the good chicks

great! ps. If you randomize the order of your runs (to control for weather) then changes should show up when averaged; otherwise you have to use some software to analyse the ride in more detail (with a power meter ideally).

Haha more likely if you make all the "wrong" choices your energy use would be an additional 300w to reach 40kph. If you doubt this, try the experiment for yourself with a power meter and lets us know what you find.

40kph on a roadie requires 300w-320w even for a small flexible slippery guy like me. AND definitely NOTwith normal riding position. We are talking about 90 degree bent arms on the hood, extremely low back. (You can have hands on the drop but it is slower) Basically an attack position.

But not for a recumbent bike! Even better, I bet a velomobile will easily go 60kph with 300 watts.

golferchin76 but that IS normal riding position at that speed. At least I don't ride at 40 kph cruising on the hoods...

37kph at 245 watts was with my traditional relaxed, non-aero roadbike with aero-bar extensions slapped onto the handlebar.

Sorry I don't see that information on the Specialized or Pearl Izumi sites. I presume this is a constant for each tunnel?

err no. it's dependent on atmospheric conditions and the characteristic dimension that the tester used

btw, elbows count but don't ignore the shoulder position. Usually with elbows bent shoulders are more "boxy" but with arms stretched shoulders are rounded and narrow...try it for yourself!

Very true, we should have included a baseline power scaling factor but we will know better next time!

Zrs yes the test of the bottle in jersey pocket was in the road position and even though most riders natural back curve will allow a sheltered bottle in TT position most will find this incomfortable....hence in long Triathlon the favoured position is behind the seat even though this breaks aero hence between the aero bars. In short TT the best bet is no bottle at all! Aero bottles will still cost 1-3 watts but its a small penalty for sure.

Hello, I'm supposed to spend 358w for 40km/h. When I look your conclusion 18:31 I understand where is what I think a mistake : you can't include "draft within 30cm" and "ride in phantom aero bar" at the same time. If i delete the second one, I would spend 210w for 40km/h (drafting), which is the same as 32,5km/h solo in the same position. This sounds more coherent than your conclusion. P.S. : Sorry, I should answer this to another message (to sipo_weon), so I doubled it in case you were already answering.

Dupont Davignon I am not sure why you suggest a rider cannot draft within 30cm AND ride in phantom aero bar position even if its not recommended for beginners! The question is how do the aero savings add up if these are stacked together. This is not 100% clear from the Win Tunnel tests.....but riding solo the ride in phantom aero bar appears to gain 37 vs drops + 39 vs hoods + 54w vs tops (130w vs tops). Also the Win tunnel found the % saving is greater for position in the draft than solo (which is a weird finding initially BUT I also forgot that its % of power used and the power used in the draft is 40% lower (approx) in the draft.....therefore I need to correct #9 to reflect this...#9 becomes saving of approx 34w (not 57w). Using the same ratio of 60% of the solo draft benefit, then the phantom aero bar position would save an estimates 60% of 130w = 78w...so in conclusion I think you are partially correct there has to be an adjustment for stacking phantom aero bar position AND drafting. Making this adjustment gives a lower saving of 306w in the draft not 358w. Thanks for getting me thinking about this!

Fastfitnesstips Doesn't the 40% reduction in power saving apply to everything once in a draft? e.g. Bottle, clothing, etc?

Richard Powell Excellent point!! NOTE this is not an exact XLS calculator like some of our spreadsheets it is a simple ranking list. So we are not claiming 100% accuracy on this one! What we can say is that the savings in the draft are estimates because many of the changes are not tested in a draft position. Someone urgently needs to do all these tests in the draft and not in the draft. Of course going the same speed in the draft means less watts needed, therefore all aero savings are going to be less. However if you were going faster in the peleton (than solo) and using the same equivalent watts (as solo) than I would expect the savings to be roughly the same.....but I have not seen these data so we cannot be sure. BUT basically you are correct.....the model I have put out is somewhat simplistic. It would be great if someone with access to more data could help me improve it; in which case I will revise the XLS. With more information we will get more precise models. Consider this a starting position. Really appreciate your comment however.

Awesome thanks!

Thanks for your feedback, please read pinned comment.

Marc Rerceretnam same organisation that says you cant have cameras on bikes?

Cams aren't allowed? A friend of mine had a Cycliq Fly12 cam on his team bike at the NSW Masters TTT competition last year.

Marc Rerceretnam could just be vic, and for track

Hi +105960052975566716449 thanks for the question....actually I covered this here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ftKXn9GGs9Slno0.htmlm06s

Bit hard doing this as most one-piece speed suits don't have pockets. At least the ones I own.

Marc Rerceretnam yep so on the bike is the only practical solution even for racing. of course if you are taking bottles to a teammate riders use the jersey pockets

kangzosa Vegan MGTOW , not drinking will save you some watts 😁

Sitting in a Ferrari will save even more watts.

Thanks. Regarding aero frame....if you hold everything the same (including position) and jjust change the frame then the aero saving from "Specialized Win Tunnel What's an Upgrade Worth?" suggests 50-57s/40k which I estimated as 9w at 40kph (yes it would be around 5w at 30kph) another site suggested the very most from an aero frame like Venge VIAS/TrekMadone2017 would be 87s for frame *& forks* depending on your baseline (and usually less than this because its rare to go from completely unaero to 100% most aero!)

Thanks for quick reply! So you can save 50-57s in 40k distance. But in a road race, you will probably never ride 40k distance alone so its maybe less than that. So i quess if I plan road racing, Im good with my lightweight bike (Cannondale Supersix Evo)?

its less in the road race because 1. you are often drafting (or should be!) so the effect will be about 50% during those times and then length of the ride (work it out pro rata 40k TT = 1hr). Cannondale Supersix Evo is still decent!

Usually you move 40 km/h without pedaling only downhill. To climb the hill you expanded a lot of watts before. So you are not running on 0 watts but on watts you turned into potential energy while climbing. Now, when you are not pedaling downhill you can save 5 watts in terms of aerodynamics if you don't pedal. But you are wasting all the potential energy that with little effort could be turned into kinetic one and surely after the steep decent comes another climb. If you didn't pedal downhill you loose your hard earned momentum and than have to work your ass off on the next climb.

Thanks Bradley for the constructive feedback which is always welcome. Yes we are aware of this and try to adjust the volume accordingly but sometimes get this wrong. However without the audio the clip often seems a bit "flat".

Hmmm, understood. I think its just the overlap. Perhaps the best thing to do would be to make sure you have no dialog that is on top of the clip's audio. Start with sound and fade it out maybe. Anyhow, keep the fascinating content coming!

A "wind tunnel" is artificially created tunnel with propellers (fans) that create constnant withd flow with controlled speed

@@kirillevterov :)

Done, thanks! Keep up with your videos, Im an engineer, coach and cyclist and to understand the real meaning of the content of your videos we have to be very open to ideas and analyze, you give data so we can build our own conclusions. thanks!

thank you, I really appreciate those comments!

Try this: goo.gl/xXMxEq

works! thanks!

True but intentionally because its hard to get an aero bike for free (or even for the same price as an identically spec'd non-aero bike)

Hi Richard we probably have data very close to this as we have been doing some work on wheel setups recently. Email me info @ fastfitness.tips your race distance and speed or watts and i should be able to tell you the difference (approx) or post it here.

Dragases XI yes!

haha #alwaysaero

yes sorry we are redesigning this sheet, email info@fastfitness.tips if you want the old one features here.

I am aware which is why we made this fft.tips/ospw a scaled dynamic marginal gains calculator. You are looking at a video that is two years old

@@Fastfitnesstips Revisited this 4 years later... Video is the same but I'm just a different rider... And I find your video is actually very accurate! Currently with my fitness level enabling me to consistently hover around 40kph in the fast part of my solo rides, I can confirm that all of this is very true! And apologize for my ignorance! Currently my experience is roughly 250W for 36 37 kph and 300+ for 40 kph. Of course when it approches 40 i usually get into that aero bar so it's more like 240-250 watts - 36 37 KPH - aerobar - 40 KPH. Nobody actually rides in baggy clothes and upright position with everything wrong at 40 KPH, actually I doubt if it's even possible for such rider to achieve 40KPH in the first place... But if they do, i have no doubt it will be 500 watts. Because anecdantally when I sometimes do standing semi-sprint (looks like sprint but not actually pushing) accelerations -- no aero sprint position like Cav, it usually ended up at 600 something watts and the terminal velocity usually is 42-43. Indeed 500W for 40. So the savings are just bang on. Not only that, with much more understanding of aerodynamics, Now I know for anyone who can manage to get his/her CdA into 0.21 0.22 range -- which is not that rare at all in TT and TRI, could actually sustain 40kph at just 200 watts. Aero is just this effective. And for someone like Pogacha protected in a peleton, indeed only need 100 or something watts to cruise at 40kph. All of these sounds crazy until you actually near there then you realize it's crazy but so true. Apologize for my previous comments. Seemingly you don't make videos anymore, I think you should. Your vids are just much better than a bunch of ads other youtubers created now.