The problem is that PVZ devs have run out of ideas for plants. They're no longer creating new plants, most of the newer plants they add are just more powerful versions of previous vanilla plants. They're just recycling a plants general purpose and reskinning it with a amped abilities.

My biggest problem isn’t that the new plants destroy vanilla, basically all premiums can do that, but that new enemies are built around being even stronger than the new plants to “counter them” making them stupidly powerful to the point where hard mode in Penny’s Pursuit is laughably bad. They should just nerf the plants instead of building awful levels around them.

I think the PvZ2 Leveling really brings to mind a Syndrome quote "If everyone is super, then no one is."

There is a reason why almost every pvz2 mod removes or completely reworks the leveling mechanic

Pvz2 players: I cant wait for my somewhat balanced pvz2 game! Arena plants:

On the levels where you prepare a defense before the level, you can just put a primal potato mine on every tile and it’ll win a lot of those levels

I like how the only thing that can power creep harder than Pokra is a better, higher level Pokra

The Bloomerang - Laser Bean example is hilarious because I remember back then trailers and teasers showed off so much about this cool new plant, Bloomerang. Additionaly funnier considering Far Future was also in development with the original devs that released the first three worlds.

Not even a minute into the video and what's basically its entire point is shown stunningly well...

the reveal of the overpowered effects of levelled up plants was masterfully done, really got me emotionally invested

I find it funny that the literal introduction level to leveling where the game shows you how 1 lvl. 20 Peashooter can beat many lvl. 1 Repeater already shows how dumb the leveling system is.

Creeps spends 30 minutes explaining why all his vanilla clips have "lvl 1" next to all seed packets

The final portion of the video was strangely cathartic. Hearing someone who knows PvZ well absolutely shred apart the leveling system is a great experience. Also, I don’t know much about early PvZ2 since I was just a clueless child playing the Chinese version that still contained multi path maps over international back then, so thank you for giving light on the early meta’s development.

I think the Risk of Rain 2 music during the leveling section was a really accurate choice. While the different Survivors in RoR2 are different enough to still keep their identities further on into a run, there really comes a point where it doesn't matter a whole lot which one you chose. They'll all be absurdly powerful far enough into the run, sometimes to the point where you can just AFK. But I feel the reason that that's okay in RoR2 is the simple fact that it's a roguelite. Those absurd stats and items only last until you die, and the game is balanced around being quick and maybe skipping some items each stage by having the enemies become stronger over time, whereas PvZ2's leveling is permanent, and the main game isn't well-balanced around leveling plants.

Before I switched to modded pvz 2, I was playing Vanilla with leveled plants. My friend who has not played pvz since the first game saw me decimate everything, grab the money bag at the end, and said that at this point the zombies should be getting the money bag

cant believe creeps20 made a video about power creeps20 that is insane

27:07 I was walking while listening to this video and when I heard that Tile Turnip loses its scaling I fucking stood there with my jaw open bc that sounds so ridiculously overpowered omg

the worst part about pokra to me is that she's incredibly unsatisfying, i hate how she randomly stops and rests every now and then instead of just attacking consistently like the others

I agree with this video entirely There's a reason why I hate plants like mega gatling pea

Im glad mods can do something very unique to each buff and nerf of a plant, making them offer something to the game instead of just making every new plant a direct upgrade of another plant that youd have to grind for. Also, i always imagined headbutter lettuce as the "kernel pult" of bonk choy. Never thought it was too powerful until now. (But then again, i never played with it) Also also, at least now we have rental plants to make the mainline game more fun to play. People seem to ignore this feature while i think its probably one of the best features. It allows you to play with plants you'd never play with otherwise and its entirely optional. Yes, it uses ads, but i think it makes it even better since it discourages players to just bring pokra to every level without grinding for it. It even allows me to buy banana launcher early, making the game a lot more fun.

Incredible choice of music for the levelling section. Accompanies your point that "levelling is the pinnacle of powercreep", and is my favorite ROR2 song, if not one of my favorites of all time.

One plant that i'm honestly impressed that didn't got mentioned is Turkey-pult. This thing was so broken that it could crash the game and it was one of the only plants that got nerfed in the entire game and it still insanely broken to this day.

The greatest thing is that you can actually cheese yourself a pokra as a ftp using the shop that pops up from the rent a plant feature

This video came out at just the right time! I have just gotten back into pvz2, and I decided to grind for the current arena plant. When I watched ZackScott's video on the plant, I was shocked and dumbfounded at how something so OP had gotten in game. Thank you for the explanation!

I remember a few years ago when i downloaded the game, i immediatly wanted to buy the electric peashooter because it was pretty cheap, after that i swept trough the whole damn game with just one plant

Havent played pvz2 in 6th months, absolutly adore these vids nevertheless

What I like about leveling is that it allows plants who previously were underpowered or useless to be used a bit more but the issue with this is that this also applies to broken plants. One thing I apreciate atleast is that premium seed packets are a bit harder to get than base game but this doesn't completely fix things (and besides I think leveling should stop for every plant at max level 10 cuz stats after level 5 are just busted no matter the plant)

Start of the video: interesting and informative Middle of the video: Mental breakdown about pokra End of the video: Interesting and informative

love the leveling slander 🔥🔥🔥

Their plan was to release pvz3. After its flop, they probably didn't have a plan B so they're pressured trying to keep pvz 2 alive. Not necessarily an excuse but i guess an explanation on why pvz2 isn't fun anymore

I absolutely had not expected the ending, but nothenless I agree with what you said about it It kind of makes me sad knowing what this game had become fully being aware of the fact that it used to be much different several years ago, when I played it as a child

showing bloomerang's jester interaction as "jank" is a sin frankly it's not taking damage from being hit by its boomerang...because it's a boomerang.. they're MEANT to come back

I really wish the devs add a feature to De-Level plants some day. Or just remove leveling from adventure mode all together and only keep it for Arena and Penny’s Pursuit. Would definitely replay levels more if either of those were the case. But sadly, with new plants such as Bamboo Spartan, a Plant with the damage of Pokra, DPS of Headbutter Lettuce, that can also survive 1 smash from a Gargantuar at level 1, AND will get stronger after said smash. As well as the up-coming Buffs to Tomb Tangler and Levitater that gives them both a 50% chance to insta kill zombies. (which makes Levitater in particular a cheap, decently fast recharge, stalling, arguably better version of Electric Blueberry) I highly doubt we’ll get to De-Level any time soon.

Pokra is the designated "Man, fuck this level" button

You know, I remember cheering about an interview where PVZ1's lead dev decided to not work on PVZ2 because he said that he couldn't imagine a way to adapt PVZ's model to microtransactions. Leveling makes his statement absolutely right.

I always though that the level system was when the franchise started to go trought a downfall. No, not just pvz2, but pvz in general. There were some issues before, yes, but it was at that point when Popcap lose their mind. Even in future games we would see some broken stuff that barely got fixed (Toxic Brainz in Gw2, Fruit Cake in Heroes, Brainium Basher in Bfn, and so on). And something tells me it will come back to pvz3.

Rule one of tower defense games: Never mix AoE, Freeze, and stun

The state of pover creep by creep majorly about creep... Magestic.

One interesting note, that the every gemiun plants wasn’t gemium until 6.2 update, expect Hurricale, Fire Peashoter and Homing Thistle, so yeaah

I think the big problem of pvz 2 is the level mechanic especially in arena , you literally ALWAYS find one guy ruining the arena with pea vine + mega gatling pea + torchwood making millions of points , plus they make the game way too easy leading to most of the players being brainless

“So sit down and grab your popcorn.” Is it a coincidence that I was eating popcorn when he said that?

after playing through pvz2 a few times using cheats to max level every plant (minus premiums) in the game, i totally agree. some plants just completely lose their purpose. yeah, peashooter costs 25 sun at max level, but why does it matter when a max level primal sunflower gives 250 sun per proc, and you can just place a max level mega gatling pea that one shots bucketheads for 200 sun? or use boom balloon flower that can place potato mine level explosives, stacked up to three per tile, every few seconds? ive done a lot of experimentation and it just devolves into "this plant will instakill everything better, faster and cheaper (although cost hardly matters with max level plants) than literally anything else. you can breeze through the game without breaking a sweat and even mess around because of how stupidly broken everything is. big wave beach, the hardest(?) world in the game can be beaten using only one row of primal sunflowers and two rows of mega gatling peas. torchwood is overkill, and pea vine is just turning off your brain. its sad.

I got Pokra by playing the weekly challenge that gives you seeds for her, and I breezed by 10 levels in 3 different worlds (Ancient Egypt, Pirate Seas, and Modern Day) with her. I can’t imagine what she can do when leveled up.

What truly racks my brain is how people still think Iceberg Lettuce is an S Tier plant.

Honestly after sundew’s release i just quit and played mods the game wasn’t fun anymore due to A. The power creep and how it made everything unfun and B. The game is dying is quality

Bro did NOT give us an intro and mad respect to him for that

Never really played PVZ2, a couple years ago yeah, but now I just watch your videos and realize there's more insight into the game, still haven't picked it back up, so the suprize I got from Pokra in the beginning REALLY got me.

Hey Creeps I've got some bad news about the peak of Power Creep, Ice-shroom was brought back for nostalgia bait, and *some fucking how he managed to dethrone Pokra in damage and utility.*

honestly i find Primal Potato Mine to be one of the most powerful in arena. I end up using just him and all though he is weaken i'm still racking out hundreds of thousands points

Actually the new Bamboo Spartan seems like it might be able to compete with Pokra. It looses the stun on hit for instead also being a defensive plant that gains even more damage when it reached half health.

Simple solution since people constantly complain about the levelling system, just add a limit until you beat the game. Like Level 5 until you beat the final Zomboss

For those who wants to get seedium plants like Pokra right now without spending real cash, try the Rent A Plant feature because everytime you beat a level with a rented plant, you get an offer for 10 seed packets of said rented plant. Just restart the level until you can rent Pokra and beat the level with it. Then just buy the seeds and repeat until you have it. It takes a while but you won't have to pay real money. And it works with other plants too. It doesn't work on paid plants cause their seed packets are only for upgrading and not for unlocking.

For the cherry bomb and winter point, plant food also hugely buffs that combo/stratergy. Not only can you use it to boost your sun production, you can also use it to A: apply a global slow even in the early game when you only have one or 2 melons B: Instantly recharge cherry bomb, which turns 300 sun and a plant food into something that can CLEAR THE BOARD of anything shy a garg, and even with gargs it takes them down to after imp throw phase

The True Culprit part was the definition of 🔥✍

PvZ 2 newer plants are so broken they make Doom Shroom look balanced...

Man, that last part with the risk of rain music, listening to the sad downfall of the game through its obscene leveling mechanics, really got to me. It genuinely felt like we were lamenting the fact that nothing mattered anymore. All that’s left is just bigger and bigger numbers stretching into infinity.

One of the worst changes ever introduced was definitely leveling, and the dumb thing was it was just introduced terribly as well, considering that the system of leveling in the Chinese version power creeps20 much more similarly to base game world creep, and as a result feels much better, than the international version. That being said i do still level my plants because a) monkey brain like cool new power and b) it's part of what keeps me coming back regularly as I'm currently unable to use mods and the arena grind was never particularly interesting to me, which I have to assume is what Popcap intended. That being said, I wouldn't be doing my duty as a Clash Royale player if I didn't note just how absurd the leveling requirements are. Even getting from level 5 to level 6 (on a 20-lvl max plant) as a f2p player can take a month of solid playing, mostly due to the daily piñata limit and the lack of any other way to obtain seed packets. The introduction of leveling was so widely despised for being broken that it's often ignored for the other thing it is, which is a fairly shameless cash grab and desperate attempt to keep players going. Premium plants were often interesting but not necessary or even extremely powerful, as creeps noted. The game wasn't ever about collecting plants, so it wasn't that important, either. But with levelling, Popcap shifted the entire focus of the game for returning players - for many, if you've already completed the story (and can't access mods, as many can't), your main new option is to level up your plants. Which is next to impossible without spending an egregious sum of money. Honestly, even if leveling was still broken, if it was at least fun I could see it having its defenders. But even those who like leveling their plants hate the leveling update because it was a shameless cash grab that broke the game with poor planning and execution, and honestly probably hurt the game more than it helped. Also Creeps the way you pronounce Pokra causes me physical pain, it's literally a mix of Poke and Okra both of which are pronounced as "oh"

The worst part of leveling is that it takes AGES to ever max out every plant (let alone just one plant), with power mints being the most affordable one. And it gets even worse with the mastery cr*ps

now that i have leveled all my favourite plants to ten i cant really go back

putting that risk of rain 2 track while talking about leveling really sold your point. The track gives this feeling of dread, which helped so much about your point. Leveling really did ruin pvz2 I remember playing pvz2 when I was around 4-5 years old with the old maps, so the entire pvz franchise was really a big part of my childhood. I can’t recall exactly what age I was when leveling was added, but it made the game no longer fun for me, so I stopped playing it after so long. After watching this video, all I can say is, bravo!

Him at 24:59: You cannot get a stronger plant than pokra. Ice-shroom:

"Nothing is stronger than Pokra." The level 3 Ice-Shroom that can two shot a garg:

Power Creep would honestly be a good name for a plant. Creeper Vines are already an actual type of real-life plant. Just put it in.

A little fun fact about Gold Bloom, it isn't a native Premium plant like Grapeshot, for example. It was available for free as an Epic Quest reward in earlier versions before it was made into a Premium along with Aloe and that red electric berry (idk the name)

Anyone realise that the title is a pun....unintended or not I think its hilarious Edit:Bro why are people arguing about what a pun means 💀

I have to say, i've been really enjoying your more highly edited videos, no matter if they come out less often :)

honestly leveling isn't bad on every plant, it's just bad on most ones, like tile turnip, it's not bad on tile turnip, in fact it allows for more interesting strategy with it making you able to place more tiles (that is more tiles period, cause eventually the cost gets to the point where it's over the maximum sun amount you can have) and it doesn't make the plant less interesting. leveling with zoybean and some other plants is pretty much the only way they're viable(at least for strategies centered around them)

Funnily enough a lot of the early ancient egypt and pirate seas levels got way easier after leveling. I mean many objective levels are stupidly easy since they increased the amount of starting sun significantly.

25:21 The Chinese version while it has many issues is a creative powerhouse and did the power creep and leveling system better, sure it’s buggy, broken, unfinished, and montization issues, but what It does with that is inspiring.

Popcap:Half of the zombies? That means we can make one for all of them and make it 29.99$!

"Winter Melon is the most expensive plant in PVZ2." Tile Turnip: "Am I a joke to you?!"

the fact i watch Plants vs zombies 2 video essays by a small channel whilst not playing pvz2 in years and never even beating the game, and still enjoy the breakdown of the game says a lot of the content :3

rad video, also amazing music choice for the leveling section

The worst part about the leveling system is you can't turn it off to play the base game as it was balanced. No you have to play with your plants at arena / 3 chili penny's pursuit level.

You made my day playing con lentitud poderosa in the background

I appreciate you and the fact that you're making these in-depth PvZ videos, but the fact that you spent the whole thing pronouncing Pokra like "pock-ra" instead of "poke-ra" is driving me insane. Love these, keep it up!

Love the videos and can't wait for the next Stream Never stop being amazing✌️

Btw, you just explained how did I broke my PvZ2. I saw a method of how to multiply currencies on the game. I though "what could be wrong? Seems fun" So, I had hundreds of millions of coins and gems. Using that, I could level any plant I would want, opening piñatas. And so I did , opening for a couple of minutes. Once with that, I could easily beat adventure mode. You must imagine how was the situation 1. Plant peashoters 2. Win I didn't realized yet that I was making my game unfun. When I beat adventure mode, I went through arena, and saw the arena plants. And I wanted them. All. So I spend my millions of coins on Piñatas. I spend to many hours that at that point, I chose to use an autoclicker instead. PvZ2 was going on that open, in only opening Piñatas. Btw, by doing this hack, you become basically unable to use Pennys Pirstuit because a bug of having infinite time left. PvZ2 was unfun to me. So I dont play PvZ2 anymore. I (even when I know it was part my fault) seen the worst of PvZ2 vanilla.

I went from one video dunking on the magnifying Grass plant to one praising it. The duality of man.

About the Bloomerang-Jester Thing. It's intentional that Jester reflecting the Boomerangs doesn't damage Bloomerang since Bloomerang can catch them

It's kind of funny to think about, but I once read someone who said that the leveling system was a "necessary" change, that was a long time ago by the way

Wow I can’t believe creeps is in the game now

Just wait until he learns about Nightcap, bro is basically Pokra with invincibility

That con lentitud poderosa at the end gave me chills oh wow good job.

This is why i literally went stright to later worlds got a the good plants then went back💀yes i beaten the later worlds(first levels) with cabbage sunflower and wallnut good the good plants then went back to beat the game in order

One way I feel like they could help levelling being super bad is maybe adding the ability to change the level and challenge of zombies on levels and endless modes for more rewards and higher challenge that would warrant stronger plants

Love the title card for "Infodump time!" It's literally me

This hit clicker game states. The zombie workarounds needed to be built better. And then leave out leveling from your deck. I wasn’t even playing when Pokra was added. That was a shocker to see vs Gargantuars.

thyme warp being available in every world now is a sign that popcap is listening to the community... and their lack of competence to balance stuff

I'm like 90% sure Pokra is pronounced "Poke-Ra", Given how she's an Okra plant that Pokes zombies

I love watching video essays for games I've never played.

I won't lie... I came into the game when Pokra came into the game, for some reason it made me kinda fall in love with it. I went REALLY hard into the unlock as a F2P player. It got me though every level that I could use it. I really really enjoy it. I know it's broken. But it's still my favourite plant

I feel like popcap should start watching these videos so they get a better understanding of what they are really doing

But it’s hard to level up plants to that extent, especially seediums

PvZ2 was the prodigy child with astounding school grades held with expectations to blow everyone out of the water, and is now a hopeless office worker lamenting their poor life decisions and stuck in their nostalgia days

the risk of rain music made the conclusion way too emotional and i love it.

Heath seeker is probably the most broken plant added ever

I agree with you, but how could leveling be changed (without being entirely removed) to not make every plant just OP?

When that risk of rain music hits as he talks about leveling Perfection

alright i just want to say the "stat block revelation"'s timing with the music is incredible also good vidoe