In our defence, those Cabal weren't allies with us yet. To Caiatl, those Cabal died an honourable death in combat against the Guardian.

@@4_xk idk man, she was pretty pissed about it

That Psion was an emissary, like a a diplomat sent on a specialized mission. Crow basically sabotaged an important intelligence mission and alliance, throwing all that effort down the drain. A rogue battalion on recon is nothing compared to what Crow potentially destroyed.

@@JCHogg-ks3ec Killing a foreign power's emissary is one of the biggest war crimes you could possibly commit. I can understand how pissed Caiatl was at Crow for destroying their efforts in pretty much datamining information out of the captured Hive Guardians.

True but she did admit that that battalion jumped the gun.

I mean, we kinda were. Ahamkara or not uldren was kind of a prick. Crows cool though although killing the psion was a bit excessive. Personally I just imagine he would have broken the machine allowing it to connect to the guardians

@@forrestsytsma5861 I mean I think there’s a really good philosophical argument to be had about the ethics of punishing someone who’s world view was so warped and manipulated they couldn’t tell reality from fantasy. But my comment was more aimed at pointing out that Lord Saladin words might not have been Crow’s only inspiration for his impulsive actions. And that we are not incapable of such actions ourselves. _Motions to the Dreaming City_

He did what he had to because of the "Voice of Riven" or Ahamkara Riven, empty promise to bring back his sister. Little did anyone know, that everyone was played for fools. The Scorn, The Hive, The Awaken, anyone with a desperate wish.

Reading the lore, yes Crow, i do understand. He totally didn't mean to kill the Psion, in fact he considered themselves friends i believe.

@@forrestsytsma5861 you need to read his report as to what happened. It's in lore

@Thatoneguy Imagine they just drop a random Skyburner's.

@Thatoneguy "git gud" parting gift from the psion. 😎

He doesn't need to be a primus he's an lord of iron

@@RakanGamer12 Primus Forge is a badass name though.

He went from bracus forge to valus forge very quickly who knows maybe he'll be primus forge in no time

Along with his personal legion, The Iron War Beasts

“Don’t fear a lion that leads sheep, but fear a sheep that leads lions”. In Valus Forge’s case, it’s an old wolf, an alpha leading war beasts.

I like your opinion on this… but do bear in mind that all lightbearers lose their identities when they’re revived. These Lucent Hive can’t be held responsible for their pasts. However, they chose to fight against us as Lightbearers, (just like the Warlords of the Dark age chose to be tyrants instead of protectors) so hate them for that, instead…

Literally the only Hive we could remotely trust is Savathun, and that's only because she's seen the Witness, and much like Crow here, her plan to "seal the Traveler away" was good-natured, ensuring the Black Fleet could never destroy the Traveler and open the path to nothingness, an idea Savathun finds odd given that she wants to experience the world as it is now, rather than behold the universe at its end, where life and death mean nothing.

It's import that you yourself doesn't become a monster in order to fight monsters.

Unga bunga me mad cuz you kill robot man, but you not that man no more, but me still angry, me no have open mind for crow man. Me shoot and no understand.

What about finch?

Meanwhile with our guardian and ghost staying completely silent

*cough* ghost recon breakpoint *cough*

@@Bloodhurl67 Hey hey. We had our time to shine. In volunteering to kill the bastard that killed Cyade. The one time the Guardian ever spoke (at least what I remember. Been a while since I've played...a long while...).

@@Qardo The Guardian’s actually been pretty vocal these past expansions. Beyond Light, Witch Queen and Lightfall we’ve been talking during cutscenes.

Zavala ready to take flight

Revvin up that knee

He's a Titan. A calm one but still a Titan.

That spot is already reserved for commander Zuzu

I don't think his ghost can revive him after one night

@@thecinnamonguy5127 *Your light fades away*

Guardian down Pops up

@@thecinnamonguy5127 can't or wont ? XD

I wonder though idlf sabathun will show up again as a strained alliance as her ghost did get away

@@joekupec7893 Maybe we let her get resurrected so we can get information on the witness. After all, she did help the traveller push it back.

are all cabal now on our side? if yes they need to change some of the public events and open world ads

@@theheneral2318 I don't think so the cabal on our side has a blue armor color. There's red legion remnants, and Calus soldiers as well that are against us. It's like the fallen as we have some on our side but most are against us. That's how I interpret it

@@joekupec7893 i see thx

I second that

I third that.

Fourth.

Fifth 🤝🏼

Nah fuck him I was playing iron banner and he called me a warlock. I’m a hunter

Agreed

I mean after he pulled that stunt he better shut the hell up for a long time. Only Saladin's wisdom avoided a political catastrophe.

Cabal have been trying to recruit guardians for awhile now so yeah that doesn't surprise me. She probably has names picked out for all the guardians she wants just waiting lmao

I'm imagining Caitl just having a random name generator on standby, just like Zavala has a random operation name generator for strike missions.

She didn't give him a name. She gave him a title

@@Stinger20638 operation... Baby dog

@@thestormcall3r861 funny we will see operation baby dog part 2 when lightfall released

Yeah he should uhh...give it to me.

@@draysmusicalshtposts6340 DIBS.. nah soz too late :D

It was a gift

Doing some literal skulduggery to the Hive is *peanuts* compared the truly horrific shit the Hive has done to not only Guardians, but every other "interesting" race they've come across. At best, this is an eye for an eye. Although in the case of the Hive, I'd say they still owe one.

To destroy evil, sometimes you have to USE evil....

That's stupid. Kill everything that opposes you or fall under their boot

Nah. FUCK the hive

I feel they would, but just like Lord Saladin I have no doubt several if not all of them would’ve been against the alliance to begin with. Thanks to Commander Zavala, the Young Wolf (at least by narrative), even Savathun (as Osiris), he eventually came to view the whole thing differently. Had the Iron Lords still been around, I’m sure they’d all need some convincing since we all know they’re men and women of action, not words…

I am surprised he did. Saladin is the mist racist of the old warlords. That he would offer himself to the Cabal is surprising.

Somebody get this guy on the writing team , before this idea goes to waste.

Eh he already has a Name for His Legion the iron War beast's But Iron Legion is still good

Still not going to happen.

That's what I'm saying the darkness is going to be to powerful for us to fight alone, so we will let Dady Amru revive savathun and, we will all fight the witness together. Or the traveler will dip out and, we will be the only one left with the light since we are tied to the shard in the edz and not the traveler. Either way can wait for lightfalls

I'm so glad I'm not the only who's realized it.

nah

Who is this character that died?

@@Generalcloud876spoiler but go down Amanda she sacrificed herself to save some prisoners it was heartbreaking especially when Zavala grieved her death he was kneeling next to her coffin crying

lmao furry

also yeah i remember being sad and shocked after reading that tab. was soooo mad at crow

He would be the guy to wield 2 Kabal severus cleavers.

I mean same here, Crow isy Guardians best buddy. Someone has to fill the void Cayde left behind. In my eyes Crow's decision was justified, but Saladin also makes a very good point. Remember the saying, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Also, technically we "own" Crow since Spider let us take him. So, from that perspective Caiatl would be messing with the merchandise lol.

@@Theaveragegamer_12 absolutely. I mean no one will ever replace cayde but we need someone to care about like him. We got our revenge. Uldren Sov is dead. Crow is a new light that deserves a chance, especially after what he's been through since his awakening. I still find it strange to think, I was one of the few that saw his revival and joked about killing him over and over again. But when we met crow, it was clear he didnt deserve that.

Same imho. Caiatl would have found herself tethered to my Shadowshot, impaled on a thousand solar blades, beaten and electrified by Arc Staff…..then stabbed with Silence and Squall.

I would’ve let her, he killed an emissary and ally while he couldn’t fight back. I like Crow but that can’t go unpunished.

@@unionblue21You make it sound like he intentionally killed the Psion in cold blood when all he was trying to do was stop the machine…

I completely disagree because you're a freakin butthole - said Crow.

I think you are right on that. I don’t think the vanguard should get comfortable at torturing prisoners for experiments even if they are the hive.

I know right, they actually forget thats how " The Thorn " became to be , first , using your enemy guns against them and when You realize , You already became something else.

Just saying these hive were intentionally stealing light from other guardians, so they were not showing mercy. Plus it’s savathun, you need to find a advantage even if it’s not always the right path

The Lucent Hive were literally harvesting light from guardians and I doubt they were quick about it. You can find their corpses scattered about certain battlegrounds so forgive me if I’m not broken up about what we did. Regardless we needed the intel from them and what we did was extremely effective at doing that. Pretty much everyone agreed with Crows perspective that it felt wrong even the Psion he kills did. Crow jeopardized an alliance and risked war with the Cabal again because he couldn’t grasp the Hive didn’t deserve his mercy when it risked others. Honestly Saladin joining Caiatl’s war council magically making her forget what Crow had done is such bad writing. The Psion was a personal old friend of hers and she just forgets that as soon as Saladin offers to join her.

(Spoilers) I can see this. I mean we have a hive ghost as our ally, so I can see some of the hive light bearers turning away from the rest of the hive seeing as how the darkness brainwashed savathun and changed her memories to get her to fight the traveler and humanity instead of helping each ither fight the darkness. And I fully believe we will end up fighting renegade guardians who strayed to far into the darkness as well.

@@nicholasprutzman9915 I would kill to have the opportunity to grant one of these factions our light. I just wanna play as an Eliksni Guardian. Very badly.

Now we just need the vex

i mean, you were sorta right. sorta

What I wouldn’t give to have been amongst the Iron Lords of that time!

most of the people in this comment section would absolutely be warlords if given a chance holy shit

Doing shit like that makes us no better then the hive which is Crows point. Yeah today it's just us ripping the mind and sense of self from the hive. But what about tomorrow when it's something else? When does it stop? When are we considered the bad guys for such horrific actions? How many necessary evils before it's just evil? It's important to set a principle less you become the very monsters you hoped to destroy. Let's also not ignore the fact the Hive are victims just as much as anyone else, maybe even more so.

With all do respect they’re in a time of war but there are still rules of war. Torturing prisoners is one of them. You don’t torture or experiment on prisoners of war. You either detain them for negotiation to send them back, kill them, or permanently incarcerate them. And that’s according to the Geneva convention. This is a game yes but what he did was MORALLY right. No matter what the hive has done to assume that all hive is the same is inherently wrong. And the lightbearers have proven that they’re not the same as regular hive either with the ability to communicate and understand. To torture them for fighting a war for their people is how you instill a deep seated hatred. Killing is a natural and accept occurrence in war torture isn’t.

@@acecun6202Except what Crow did is also a war crime. He killed an unarmed emissary.

He was about to jump and punch caital in the back of the head

Well, that's what happens when you're uploaded with an entire lifetime's worth of memories from your previous identity. Imagine the guilt on his shoulders. Imagine a Guardian that was a serial killer in their past life suddenly got those memories back, you bet they're gonna get depressed and try to be overly good.

We still have ikora

Slave? He's on the council kicking ass like always

@@Metaphysicist real

Lmaoo💀

😭

Krill, Cabal, Vex, Eliksni. Mystical Arts, Military Strength, Mechanical Arsenal, Masterful Plunderers

@@ZynetESLD ya already know

Nah they gonna ressurect cayde as a bad guy and he's gonna be right under the witness with unlimited darkness gun.

The fallen didn't have the Light, they only got more food and wealth via the Traveler's power to boost technology and terraform barren planets

@@Di_616 thats using it not like guardian use

Ain't she retired or something? As for Saladin's "departure", the alliance is much stronger for it. Caiatl gets to see just how effective Salad man is, and, we get some extremely well trained Cabal on our side.

@@Theaveragegamer_12 •~• human trained cabal is worse than cabal trained cabal.

Not even close. Master chief would have thrown down saint 14 is way more master chief than saladman

​@@giraffesushi8112 not talking about a fight talking about how he acts

Lucent Hive haven't even actually done anything bad to us that we didn't thwart. They're losing their appetite and need for carnage and murder to sate their worms, and their leader's one big ploy (to keep The Traveler safe, mind you) was foiled. Sava2n was misguided, enigmatic, kinda stupid and edgy, but she's no longer the Savathun we know

@@SeanCrosser Exactly

Yeah I'm gonna have to disagree, given that the hive are an omnicidal race bent on proving their "superiority" by eating civilizations. Torturing a few hive, who already don't abide by any "rules of war" that everyone keeps going on about, so that the entire rest of the universe can survive is definitely worth it

@@APennyForYourThoughts835 If we torture people because they only exist to kill, there is nothing stopping us from doing the same thing to people who don't. And other people might compare us to those we torture and see us as no better than them.

Yeah forgive me if I don’t feel sympathy for the Hive. Especially the Lucent Hive who were harvesting light from guardians. Crow put his morals before anyone else and jeopardized not only himself but the entire last city risking the alliance.

And you sound like your built on a foundation of bias. Also it wasn’t Crow that killed Cayde.

To be fair that was uldren so that was more uldren being a total asshole than stupid

The light can only do so much against an orbital bombardment

@@Three3Phase I mean we did survive one during the red war. And besides our ghost would survive (probably) and we'd be ok

Exactly. And we can assume that the Lucent brood are being tricked to fight against us. Yet we have a man on the inside in the form of a hive ghost. If we can one day play as a lucent knight, I want to do so upon my return. Especially with a titan's might

They were literally doing the same to guardians and these were lucent hive mind you. They kill guardians and leave their corpses to rot were they fell all because they wanted to steal the traveler away from us. Sorry I don’t feel pity for them. Even if Crow is morally correct killing an innocent allied Psion even accidentally because of that is unforgivable.