What should we do now... I'm confused as fucc

Funny thing is only in hip hop is the term producer confused and lost and misunderstood

Im paying for THE BEAT -- not per producer . If my budget is $10K for a beat, that is FINAL. It's up to the producers to split that however they agree

All facts! It’s always been about the money. What makes this extra annoying is that you have people like Danjahandz who’s arguably responsible for some of Timbaland’s biggest hits or Scott Storch who’s been the key (pun intended) behind other super-producer’s hits but they weren’t pushed as one of the producers on those hits. There’s enough room for everyone to eat when you move with integrity. Collaboration is integral to the music industry and can’t no one prove otherwise! This one man band mentality needs to die.

5 people on one melody is crazy. 5 people on one beat understandable. But one melody. Yea that's crazy. That means close to 10 people some touched this record before it gets to distribution

Prince = Played everything on most (if not all) of his albums IIRC Quincy Jones = had the vision & hired bands/instrumentalists Both are legendary for their music production. Kanye (via sampling w/ the ASR & MPCs) started out mostly like Prince in a way, then turned into a Quincy... Same with Dre. Somewhere , everyone forgot what "producer" means ! But like Curtis said, education and folks will do it "wrong" & "right" depending on who's griping about it.

ya'll niggas never heard of BANDS. Where people actually play and collaborate on MUSIC together ? !

Like you said Curtiss it's all bout money. Now that we have streaming and no CD's with credits inside the Cd cases we forget that the songs we grow up on had about 5-10 people on it if they read the credits.

These dudes are remedial. If there was anyone listening to these type of conversations there would be no Quincy Jones and Michael Jackson records.

i don't think it's strictly a money issue. the problem is, when you have 5 producers to make one beat; it's a headache to get that many contributors to agree and sign off on splits, mechanics etc. then you have the issue with these loop/sample makers that are trying to strong arm once they get the loop they sent out placed. i've heard crazy stories of loopmakers asking for 50% of the publishing, and not signing off until they get it. it's crazy. i just never understood the need for that many collaborators, only for a beat to sound like one person made it. it's a dirty game, you have people stealing loops from each other and passing it off as their own. the problem is that the new generation of producers just isn't dynamic enough, everyone's copying and biting the same sounds.

"Nobody Cares! Work Harder" - A wise man.

I just found this channel a few weeks ago and I LOVE the content. As a 44 year young fan of ALL genres of music from Carson, CA with hip-hop at the foundation of my passion, I can't say enough about the interesting variety and level of detail provided in these videos, and he is entertaining to watch which is so important. Congratulations on finding your lane and keep up the great work.

House music producers and other dance music producers do it all. Alot even mix and master their own records. There are two many Beat Makers and not enough Record Breakers.

Great video, King! 100% on point! I may still stitch/remix this, but the mention of ego and money bears focus as I JUST mentioned the former in a convo and alluded to the latter. Listen, if someone contributed to some beat/song/whatever. especially "identifiably", gone are the days when a Clyde Stubblefield gets ZERO. A lot of these young artists and producers are arguing over 5-10% of nothing. That's money AND ego and they got some of that listening to these big names. Some of them dudes are mad contradictory.🤷🏾‍♂️

I prefer i producer that does everything from scratch

Why can't you do both? Collabing is a great way to network with people you may have never met and it's great for creative growth. And if you want the title that bad of sole producer on a track, then do that too. We just wanna make music... and money. lol Dope video.

This why I like the concept of a 'band+crew'-as-collective. This ego based style of making music is just the Market (the money making game) having infected the culture of making music. Last year I had the privilege of going to a live show led by pianist Robert Glaspier. There was a drummer, a bassist, a guitarist, a sample-master, and three rappers who also sang. Shit was absolutely 2 hours of straight 🔥

Thank you but not just for this video. You keep it a buck and give great insight. Salute.

Thank you for the insight and different perspectives. We need the knowledge to know how to navigate this industry 🙏🏾K.I.P

If being a real music producer can be just making calls and directing people without ever even touching keys or drums then whatever but I respect musician producers the most, the purity is unmatched

There is no right answer. Some producers and producer/artist combos have a unique sound that theirs. In some case a group of producers work well together to create something special. It's whatever it takes to move the song or songs forward. The only time I'm not a fan of multiple producers is when I hear a bare bones, incredibly simple track (with 5-6 people working on it). Makes me wonder what each person actually did. LOL

Rick Rubin said it best. when we are creating we need to leave ego at the door, seriously though all of this is about the money and nothing else. if you look at Astroworld that Lp has a lot of credits but the final product is well-loved. IT IS ALL ABOUT EGO AND MONEY

Well done Curtiss King !!! Keep them coming.

I'm commenting before I watch the whole video because of the introductory clips of Nav. Nav's ego, when it comes to production, is so inflated due to 3 reasons. 1. Back to Back 2. Beibs in the Trap 3. Making a career as a rapper by producing for himself. I don't know why he speaks so much on production when he hasn't made a beat by himself since he got on. On top of that, if he were such a great producer then he'd be a bigger artist. On top of that, he has some of the greatest relationships in the game for any artist, from producers to engineers to artists. Don't get me wrong, he is a really good producer and a lot of his songs are great from a production standpoint but it's also very safe. I believe there are some rules to always abide by when making music but as long as you work around those rules and learn how to bend them then everything is free range. The best beats I've ever heard Nav rap on were beats by Wheezy, who is someone who works with a lot of loop/sample makers, makes ALOT of "mistakes" and just does whatever feels right to him (that's what it sounds like a lot of times). "Friends & Family" & "Young Wheezy" are without a doubt or debate the greatest beats Nav has ever rapped on or even been a part of.

I hear a lot of what you’re saying and agree no one should gatekeep how you do things - whatever gets the job done ✔️ but from what I was hearing from the clip of Nav wouldn’t the producers just be splitting up their royaltys between them even on the master isn’t it whatever is allocated to the producers anyway (in a Major situation) so what he’s saying can make sense because you hear of stories about people holding up the release of the record until they clear it or get their big cut - so I hear both sides and i’m careful who I collab with it’s easier when the business is done right and everyone has set ways of working and all in agreement. But again that’s just one view - have to view it all and decide how you operate in the industry.

Speaking out the truth !🙏🏼

I do all my shit from scratch so do my other producer homies, but we a little older. I know a lot of younger cats who just use loops and samples n have 5 people on one beat like God damn.

I like the topics of your channel. No stupid gossip BS. Just straight talk.

Subscribed 👌🏼

So right!

Preach!! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

Amazing video Curt 🔥

You a legend and videos like this are why !

Call em out bro 🔥🔥🔥

youre dope bro keep goin'!

Beat Maker = Artist. Producer = Scientist. These tasks access two different parts of the brain. Some are lucky to be able to do both. Business = part law / part accounting and is yet another discipline.

facts!!

Low key, they don’t want to pay young producers. These guys come in with beats… then an industry dude will tell his team… make something that sounds like this. I have seen placements for beats that were sampled from looperman for free from major artists. Everybody wants their money, but that industry guys, don’t want to pay young dudes unless they are on their team.

Tell the truth, Curtis!!! 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾

I kinda feel like its just lazy to pay someone else to do a certain part for you (unless you dont know how and cant figure it out) I obviously cant afford to pay other people to do things for me but whenever i need to add something and i dont know how to do it, i always end up figuring it out in the end and now i have a new skill i can use and improve on. I feel like taking shortcuts like that only leads to stagnation and you will never improve and learn.

“ If a producer don't take off his tag, I'll do it myself and I'll remake the beat” - Nav When I heard this line, I was like 😮😳😂😂😂 Nav wit the finesse.

Valid my good sir I like what you have to say

1:10 aaahhh now I understand why they all have 10 producers per tracks... it's because these producers aren't musicians... now I understand why music is so simple nowadays, where are the Quincy Jones??

this guy just went straight to the point! he an absolute accurate detective

5 people on a beat is not a problem and is as old as time. There are many parts of a song that could each benefit from specialization. You can have multiple instrumentalists each contribute an individual part of the whole music. You can also have mixing and mastering engineers who are separate from the producer. 5 people on a single melody though is just cumbersome for splits and licensing. When you look at what each man adds to the melody, it may not even be much. It's like it's just a game to see how unrecognizable from the original sample each person down the chain can make the final product. One may simply reverse the sample, the second chops and replays the slices into a simpler, less inspiring melody, while the 3rd pushes it a few semitones down and washes it with reverb, and so on. Too many hands spending too much time adding tweaks that do not justify their inclusion to the project. One person can do all these much faster. If you really want to help your guys eat, finish the work faster on your own and just put aside a percentage of your fee/royalties for them.

1:29 i never looked it that way. However it be 5 producer spliting up the 1%-3% they get off the song. NAV if i remember correctly, started as a producer first so he comes from a geniune place. Khalid on the other hand releases the song as his song with features.

The "Detailed Education" part is crucial.

I think part of what's changed in the past 25 years is people receiving writing and production credits for things that would've only earned a session musician wage in the past. Heck, how do you even define "session work" when you've never been to an actual session before. Compare the credits on Michael Jackson albums that were self-produced to the albums with Quincy Jones. The later albums had more "one-man beats," but also more songs that passed through multiple rounds of producers and musicians. I wouldn't call more people being compensated for small contributions a bad thing…

Facts. All this talk is about gatekeeping

The thumbnail lol

DJ Khaled producing a burger- Chefs get the job done, if it's gettin a cheesemaker with you in there, sometimes i gotta call a farmer in , a gardener in, sometimes I gotta call a guy that makes buns🤣

Just look @ Nav… Case closed. 😂🤦‍♂

There is no industry

Sweetz bestz out of Dallaz they cold w the beatz..out of plesant grove in Dallaz TX

When did collaborations become a necessity in an age of technology where one person can do everything?!? I think of each collaborator having their own shade of color, when you get more than 3 to 5 more collaborators - the sum of all the colors become bland and opaque - where everyone sounds like everyone else. But that’s where the money is and you get what you get- very slow progress of the evolution of music. It’s forced brainwashing that collaboration is a necessity. There was a time when you had way more unique music in every genre when there was 3 or less collaborators per song. Often the most memorable songs had one songwriter.

*Quincy Jones didn’t play ONE note on ‘Thriller’. Q is still ‘GOAT’ status!* 🐐

I believe the reason why producers do this now is to get placements at once. Its all a money thing for the rapper and the producer/ Engenier.

I remember DJ Toomp no longer wanting to work with Kanye because you spend a lot of time working on a song and when the final version is released, there’s tooooooooo many producers and beat makers getting a slice lol

Bro this must be old. Because now it's just drag and drop. You don't need to hire anyone anymore. Drag drop add some reverb. Eq this. Compress that and in a fraction of time you gotta beat. It's not very difficult and I'm dealing with irony. Back in the 90's and early 2000's, let's say drum patterns, I don't sample, it took forever and learn tricks to use plug-ins. I was one of the first in my area to use midi. Man I loved it. I could do even more crazy ish... as time went on, here's the irony, I wanted the drag and drop. To me it's the journey to the final outcome. The work and frustration to get something you like and people like. Man that's the best part. Now and I get it, time is money but the the work the creativity seems gone. You can make a beat in minutes now. But those who compose music still, Prince mentioned it.. those folks are legit. They know both worlds. They need those short cuts not folks like.... idk the Island Boys 😂😂😂😂

Bro what now !! I know how to play almost everything :). Now I'm learning to produce 🧢👍

they got a point tho a lot of these rappers like nav hop on basic beats anyway, so i really don't see the point in 5 people on 1 beat. but there is def circumstances with certain artists where it needs to be multiple ppl, it be seeming like ppls homies just wanna give out placements more times then not

nav is right tho, we don't need 5 guys to screw in a lightbulb(or do a melody) its overkill and waters down beat, gangbangin that melody for no reason then they each want cut and need a manager to keep track of that mid beat

🔥🔥🔥🔥

3:03 it’s a difference be producing a track and collaboration between 5/6 different producers.

Rappers don’t treat producers right…we literally the OTHER HALF of the song.

🔥🔥🔥

And there we have it Folks! The producer argument debunked in 8.06 mins. @CurtissKingTV we salute you!

It's so funny because 95% of rappers are completely talentless and rely solely on their producers carrying their career.

If they only split the money with the people who make the music it would be so bad.

its not that hard do business but its hard to make people stand on business. whoever you are if people are to respect you.. you have to make them stand on business by negotiation and that negotiation reflected in a contract. the narcissist wants to you to be afraid of the conversation about contracts or knows you will never bring it up. Alot of people in the industry are incompetent leaders or prey on the less knowledgeable under the guise of building a relationship. the term "work for hire" has to be used more. if you cant afford to pay people what they are worth.... you make up for it with percentages in the royalties and equity in the business of the songs' publishing. buyout in the copyright world looks like 10k+ because your paying for ownership & control. there are reason why things get priced a certain way. the intellectual property business is expensive. for example As a photographer you might as well give me royalties every time the image pops up on a service or pay me a yearly licensing fee. a work. for hire or buyout contract will look like $4000+ minimum. i cant say there is a producer problem. its just a knowledge and awareness gap. its hard work and the majority dont like that. just had to get that off.

curtis were in the multiverse

6:49💯🔥

Its not hard to learn to play a little drums, a little guitar, a little piano. Its a beat, not a symphony.

Knowledge is power seriously

Im like hit boy I don't need or want 5 people on a beat... ?I don't evan see how 5 people get on a beat.... Crazy

Some beat makers are producers and beat makers. Some producers can’t make a beat for shit! And some of those producers have the biggest names in the game!

Curtiss... thank you for saying it's partly to make young producers insecure... as a producer/rapper/and artist, these guys are constantly creating fake rules to make others insecure. its so annoying and I've quit listening to the noise

its not just about money its about purity of the final product, thats why rap is dying because beats lack identity like they used to have, Navie D did a video about it called the decline of hip hop

It's be called a piano....play it 7 chords

0:58 yes

You ever going to write another book big dog?

They gon say whatever they gon say.. no rules in music just do what makes you happy. I’d rather have a placement w 2 other producers than nothing

Let me listen 🤔

Based

Then when their beats get ripped by nobodies they weep bra 😂😂😂 it's dam shame bra.

CRABS IN A BARRLE

🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤

Idea...how bout Nav learn to make his own beats

W take

I make my own melody mix and master my beats proceed to make a art video post it oh yeah find a damn title.. and PEOPLE think i have a team 😂 god dammit no wish i do

You just opened up the flood gates🎵

Real producers , PRODUCE their creation or their PART of a CO-PRODUCTION. Not hiring other ppl. To me, that's an ARRANGER. YOU DO ARRANGEMENT.

I’m ngl as a producer if your not playing a live instrument I don’t really need you.

To answer navs question it’s because they play an instrument better than they could and because they want their fam to eat plain and simple

it's a simple answer. STop giving your music away. If you create it, have the vision and confidence to create songs/albums with artists you curated. on the Other hand- if you are a so-called "producer" then stop using other people's body of work as yours

Collaboration is key. I mean some dudes have friends who help out some do it themselves, we all gotta eat and there’s enough for everyone so 100000% facts on the idea that these dudes are spreading mixed messages muddying the water so indie dudes like us stay as “employees.” Sounds like Quan and Nav trying to be CEOs rather than artists

Nav makes some of his own beats

Have these dudes ever heard of an orchestra or symphony with band combined!!??? Lmao music has ALWAYS been a collaborative effort smh 🤦🏾‍♂️ this why our parents hate us lmao

Tired of always being right/ahead of my time..people used to look down on me for using fl studio..now everyone loves that shit...used to look down on the fact that I felt I shined the most as a co producer...now it's standard place and y'all hate it...just let the creatives create man...

I agree with NAV. Having 5 guys making one melody it's wrong af. Like damn yall not creative enough ? 1-2 or max 3 people on the melody it's ok. But if you and 3 other people cant come up with some dope melody then are you really a producer?