Thanks for the overwhelming response to this video, as well as our other videos on The Real Gunsmith Channel! We appreciate your comments and questions. Due to the volume of the comments and questions, some which would take some time to answer, we just don’t have the time to respond to them all. However many of the questions will be answered in future videos. Our first priority is to our paying clients. Writing out long answers would take time away from that, and I won’t put them “on hold” to post long answers here. If you have questions about getting gun work done or a custom rifle built, contact us at randyselby@randyscustomrifles.com. I have a wide range of prices for custom rifles so even the “average Joe or Josephine” can get into a custom package, just as accurate as the higher end rifles. For our detractors, we appreciate your difference of opinion, too, but I stand by my decades of experience. To all of you, thanks again for your overwhelming support. Stay tuned! God bless you all. Randy and Cathy

Randy, back in the 90s i shot benchrest with the IBS. Had the pleasure of going to the supershoot twice, and probably a hundred matches all over north east in a 6 year period. I also was the moderate for the benchrest list, and owner of a website well ahead of its time. We received 2-3 million hits per month, had advertisers like heart, mcmillian etc... the forum, had more action in the 90s than anyone could believe... Before that, i did a little high power, and pretty much have been shooting my entire life. Internal and external ballistics have always been extremely interesting to me. My first full time summer job was in a machine shop on a Bridgeport milling machine, and my aptitude for this type of work was such that i became very close to the owner and worked for him on and off (between school and college) for 6 years. At 19 or 20 i took the north American correspondence school of gunsmithing, and at 21 obtained my federal firearms license. The point of this entire post, and directed to anyone who might be unsure of your expertise, after a lifetime of shooting l am able to say without any hesitancy, you my friend are one of the most knowledgeable folks on the tube. I find myself in agreement with almost everything you say. The only time I can't agree, is only when im learning something from you. Thank you for your time, thank you for your verbal accuracy and lastly, to all.. listen closely.... years of wisdom in a more condensed format than anything I have ever seen....

Randy and Cathy, thank you both for the wonderful videos you produce for us. Randy your knowledge is immense and it's a pleasure to listen to you speak. God bless you both...

I'm 16 and have been reloading for 3 years videos like yours are what got me started. I reload 10 different calibers now.

You are a wealth of knowledge. Can't wait for more. Down to earth and tell it like it is, and are a pleasure to listen to. The components chosen are spot on. I prefer the nosler partition for my tougher game species. I have given up on boat tailed bullets for hunting big game because of unpredictable results. The unpredictable part is that these bullets have a tendency to swap ends upon impact and not driving straight through a deer. I've seen this and actually heard it. A bullet definitely whines like a cat when this happens.

The Standard Deviation is not the average. It is the deviation or dispersion of the shot velocity values from the mean or average. The Extreme Spread ( difference between the fastest and slowest ) can indicate where you might get flyers. But you need to run a ladder. Watching for signs of excess pressure( For another topic.) Increment your powder charge up from lowest to highest + 1 grain in 0.50 grain increments. Shoot the specific charge weight rounds in sequence with cooling after three. Do not fire all three of each one and then move on. This normalizes factors like fouling and barrel heating over all of your charge weights. There is usually a velocity sweet spot where the barrel vibration harmonics put the barrel muzzle crown at the same point shot to shot even with some SD and ES values more than you would think. Carefully track mean velocity, SD and ES. The most precise load will not always be the load with the lowest SD and ES. It will be the load with the mean velocity at or near the sweet spot of the barrel harmonic pattern. This is usually at the end of travel where the barrel end is fixed for the longest period ( called the harmonic dwell) before it accelerates back across its path as it vibrates back and forth( the movement is actually more complex than this). Or it will be at a node. If your bullet exits when there is a node at the muzzle then you have hit the jackpot. There is little to no precession (movement) at a node. Also a factor is the acoustic pressure pulse .produced by ignition that travels back and forth reflecting off the bullet until it exits. This pulse causes elastic expansion in the barrel. That traveling wave peak needs to be away from the muzzle when the bullet exits. Running a ladder helps you empirically deal with these two elements of physics. You may not satisfy both of these physics factors but get close enough. Once you get to the best velocity ( fast enough for hunting) then tune the load with the other variables - only one at a time. I have a 7MM Mag Ruger M77 with a Douglas sporter barrel that shoots the same 1/2 MOA groups at SAMMI COAL ( 0.120 in jump) as it does 0.30 in jump BECAUSE the time in the barrel is, with variability as represented by SD and ES, at the sweet spot of vibration harmonics and the ignition's acoustic pulse. One more thing, use a Hornady concentricity tool to get the bullet runout under 0.002 in. This helps keep the bullet on bore center line as it enters the rifling and makes seating depth less critical. Everything should be made as simple as possible but not one bit simpler, Albert Einstein In God we trust. Everybody else bring data. Anonymous, The Real Engineer + The Real Gunsmith.

Thanks for all your videos Randy. And Mrs Randy too...

Thanks, good to see old world craftsmanship at work

Finally someone I care to listen to.

Your videos are most educational and none bays, we love hearing for you often...

Right on Randy, thanks!

Wouldn’t it be great to spend a few days with this guy, favorite rifles, and lots of components to try! Find your loads and keep ‘em.

Thanks for this information. I've loaded for 50 years and didn't know some of what you covered.

This one is so good im going to record and write it down to have forever for me and grandkids. Sincerely thank you all.

Great info that will speed up my learning curve to load development for my 7Mag. Thanks!

Since I discovered your videos Randy, I've made it through about half so far! Thank you for this, whoever talked you into doing the videos, my hat's off to them!..I haven't hunted any yet but hope to pair up with my buddy, he hunts, and get out there! My granddad, he's passed away now, he hunted elk in Montana every year until he was about 74 years old! I've got a photo of him on his last trip sitting on a ridge with that Model 71 across his knees and half a beard growing! I love that photo! He must've had a good spot to get close because that Model 71 was the only rifle he used for elk and he shot many elk over the years! I've got that Model 71 now, I looked up the serial number, 4 digits, built in 1936 and ready to go huntin tomorrow! Thanks again

Love the advice I have been shooting for 10 years and I only just put my rifle on a labrad system and found I had an average velocity of 2835fps from a 308 useing 155gn Lapua and 45.5gn of 2208 ( australian powder hogden varget 15 in USA ) found a ES of 4fps great advice

Love the information. I’ve only been reloading for a few years, have aspirations to learn the trade of gunsmithing one day. You’re an inspiration sir.

Thanks for that, good advice. I've been reloading for my hunting rifles for many years but never really tried to develop loads. I've recently got a 260 rem and am in the process of developing a 130 AB load for deer hunting. And others for Target practice.

This is gold. Thank you sir.

Thx for sharing some real wisdom here, cheers

Thank you for the knowledge!!

Excellent! I'm glad you used .270 Win for example...some great recommendation. I live and hand load in Alaska and have a 1976 Remington 700 in .270 Win. I've always used IMR4350 with Nozler brass so I will try your recommendations. THANKS!

Been watching and paying attention to your words of wisdom. You answered my question. Work up a powder charge then seating depth. Thank you for sharing.

One thing Randy did not explicitly mention for load development is absolutely essential: good record keeping. Otherwise you forget what you did. You need to label the rounds as they are prepared, and keep an index that documents what is in each round. Then, after the target has been shot, label the groups with the load that caused each one. There are many ways to do the record keeping. Choose your method and don't forget to follow it.

Thanks for the reply

Randy, I watched your load development video and have a couple of questions. 1: when you are measuring case heads for pressure, I read long ago that you should always get your first (base) measurement on a once fired case from a moderate load ( not too mild or too hot), vs an unfired case! Do you agree? 2: What do you consider to be maximum expansion before you are over pressure? 3: If you need to try a different primer, do you go back to your starting load when you switch, and work back up? 4: How important do you think it is to have freshly annealed cases when starting a new load development? 5: I have extensively loaded straight walled rifle and pistol rounds but have never known how to properly measure those cases for pressure. I was told by someone at either Hornady or Hodgden that those cases won't measure like rifle cases. What say you? Thank you for your help, I love your videos. Keep up the good work! Sincerely, Michael Roth

I've used Speer Hot Core , Hornady Interlocks and Barnes Triple Shocks on everything from deer to elk with no problem at all. Accuracy runs in most of my rifles from 223 to 45-70 about 1/4 to 3/4 inches with a 3 shot group at 100 yards. Anything bigger I discard. My thought is I want optimum accuracy with full power loads. Now my 22-250 with 53 gr Triple Shock bullets with IMR 4064 at 3700 fps will put 8 shots in a large hole at 100 yards. With that load I've killed 16 Mule Deer and half a dozen Antelope out to 250 yards and have never recovered a bullet , they all punched clean through. In my 45-70 I use Speer 400 gr bullets with various powders at 1,800 fps that average 3/4 inches 3 shot groups at 100 yards from my Marlin 1895 , those loads knock a animal into the next time zone.

Great video sir thank u for sharing GOD BLESS.

So Mr Randy. You were just talking Directly to me. I have a .270 Win and this is exactly the information I have been looking for. I know this caliber had more to offer and this is total proof. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. God Bless!!!

thanks for the info

I still get good consistency with range brass, hodgdon powder, cci primers ( or sellier &bellot), and hornady bullets. I clean my brass really well, and trim them to length. That's about all I do. I thought about turning my own solid copper bullets on my lathe.

I am just starting to reload rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor and without a doubt am learning a lot. I am enjoying and learning from your videos. I still have more to watch and learn from and watching your 6.5 Creedmoor video again. I didn't see that till after I bought the rifle. But anyhow, i have a question on velocity, is that typically determined from what the safe max pressure is from the manufactures work up of the cartridge?

@The Real Gunsmith Could you do another video like this one referring to semiautomatic platforms. Specifically talking about your opinion on neck tension/ crimping.

Very good

I think its important to remember that "best" is SUBJECTIVE. Best doesn't mean "most expensive" or "most popular on the forums" or "gives Joe Blow on the forums HIS best groups" or "spends the most money advertising its products with ads of all kinds including sponsoring events AND "lending" or "donating" its products to "bloggers" and "journalists" and "shooters" for "review". And since LOADING AMMUNITION and LOAD DEVELOPMENT and LEARNING TO DO THEM "RIGHT", like SHOOTING, requires TIME and PRACTICE and EXPERIENCE, if you buy the "best" based on how expensive it is and have any kind of a budget, you're going to be limited in your ability to turn "quantity" reloading into QUALITY reloading. You don't HAVE to "develop loads" ONLY for your "precision" rifle or handgun and if you think there IS such a thing as "precision rifle" and that ONE GUN AND/OR CARTRIDGE "deserves" more "development" than another in your "collection" and take a "good enough" approach to SOME of your shooting you're just taking that same "good enough" approach to ALL of your shooting whether you know it or will admit it or not. If you DO want to take a "good enough" approach then SET YOUR "GOOD ENOUGH" GOAL BEFORE YOU EVEN BEGIN DEVELOPMENT AND STARTING WITH YOUR "LEAST ACCURATE" AND "LEAST PRECISE" LOADS IN YOUR "LEAST ACCURATE" AND "LEAST PRECISE" GUNS and PROVE that YOU are "good enough" to "improve" on your WORST performances.

win model 70 270 best I found is 57 gr imr4831 and a Remington 9 1/2 mag primer 130 gr nosler ballistic tip bullet for my deer hunting load. with a standard deviation of 5

My Savage 25-06 with the 100gr Ballistic tip likes the Reloader 19. I don’t have shots over 4-450 yards round here.

Absolutely right on the money for hunting load. And most often end up with better than hunting accuracy. Always has to shoot head off a pheasant at hundy

That’s how I load a grain or two under max to start with.

Randy, Man that was a great video! What load would you recommend for 7mm Remington Magnum out to 450-500 yards? I don't think I would try anything passed that, in fact I didn't take a 365 yard shot last year on a cow elk because I thought she would come closer and would have if some goofy butts way over on another ridge had not started taking pot shots at the herd from 1000 yards or more away.. Thanks, Jim

I couldn’t help but laugh when I heard this video. No one taught me how to reload, but I have always been super thorough when doing it. I have always used different combos of powder and primers and seating depth. The watching meticulously for signs of high pressure. I keep a reloading journal and record probably more data then I need but too much data in my book is never a bad thing. Lol

I have a ruger m77 270 win that never make decent group at 100 yards and I try all, bedding the action, test 3 new scopes, change powders, change bullet types and weigths, bed the scope, lap the scope rings, bed the scope mounts, use lock tite on all screws, move the seathing depth of the bullet and BINGO! The damm barrel have longer troath...yes thats the problem I found and only likes 130 gr bullets whit h4895 45gr 2900 fps. Im thinking seriusly to rechamber the barrel to make shorter throat may be thats solve the problem.

Just starting out reloading I have a Remington AAC SD 1 and 10 twist 20 inch barrel I was wondering what do you recommend as far as bullets and Brass goes and a primer and powder using that for deer hunting

How long does that generally take to do that? I'm just loading for myself so I don't usually have a lot of different bullet choices available. I usually buy the bullet I want to shoot then adjust powder to make it shoot that bullet the best my rifle can.

I haven’t used Reloader for my 270’s. I’ll give it a try. I use Federal match 210’s but I’ll see what a Remington 9 1/2 does. I have several chronographs from the old silver and gold tape to a 33 and for the last 20+ years I’ve used a 35 with a printer. I even have an old Quartz Lock. I wonder what you think of the 35. Thank you for the lesson.

"You won't know, until you try it."

I don’t own a chronograph and work up loads fine. I would think the extra data might help you but I know for certain it’s not necessary. I get great loads and they kill deer and shoot great on the range and don’t know how fast they’re really going.

Thank you Randy so very much for your advice , I'v been doing it wrong ! . Don't have a coneagrafe ,will have to try and source one , have a 300 win mag , using AR2217 , equivalent to H1000 , using 180 gr hordany inter bonds , federal large rifle primers , 77 to 77.5 looks good but seems on the medium to lower side ? any advice will be great , Thanks Paul . Melbourne Australia . sorry for any spell , dyslexic.

I have to call BS at 2:54 , Ken was NOT who is credited for coining the term "standard deviation" it was mathematics/statistics professor Karl Pearson in 1894, who by the way established the discipline of mathematical statistics. I dunno I guess I'm going to have to re-examine all of my notes as there is now a shadow of doubt.

People don’t understand there’s a lot of little stuff that effect accuracy

Just curious as to what kind of accuracy can one expect from a factory sporter weight rifle? I know this is a loaded question but I’m sure other folks are wondering too. Any response will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Would you expect reloader 22 or 26 to obtain a higher velocity in a .270 out of a 22” barrel? I am reloading 130 grain accubonds at around 2940 FPS using RL-22. I am hoping to get a higher velocity if possible.

Nice

How many groups do you shoot per charge weight and seating depths. Thanks

Randy, you are such a knowledgeable guy, why don't you capitalize on your knowledge, and write a book? Me and many of your followers will buy it, and it'll provide you with a life long income stream.

your the best

Thank you

So I have to get myself a chronograph and a micrometer now lol.

Hi Randy an Friends, help I picked a bad time to start loading ammo for my rifles. Have done shot gun loading sense 1975, as you no it's been very difficult if not impossible to get components especially large rifle primers an powders. I had a customer in camp that does alot of bench shooting i expressed my disappointment not being able to load for my 6.5x284 Norma he told me i could shoot my 7mm large magnum rifle primers instead off the nonexistent large rifle primers i cannot find. In my mind i feel it's just a bigger charge or hotter which may be better for a complete an more even discharge am i okay to use large magnum primers when the book calls for large? Thank you kindly for your time.

Randy loading a 270 win with a hornady 130gr interlock with reloader 26 what charge would you start with ? Thanks!

What best powders do you recommend fora 30-06 BOLT gun?

Just to give history it's due, Standard Deviation was created in the late 1700s, when the utility of "least squares" was seen in linear regression analysis (trying to find a "line" through data which could be used to represent the linear function underlying the data). It's the square root of the mean of the squares of the differences between each data point and the mean of the data points.

What manual do you recomend or turn to most often yourself???

In my .270 with 4350, 130 gr TTSX I got standard deviations of 54.0gr--17.8 ,54.5 gr--4.6,55.0gr--14.9. So 54.5gr with a 4.6 std dev, what would be the next step? Work on bullet seating depth?

Your correct if you see "load development" as a subset of reloading, but to make lots of practice ammo you can afford and without it becoming your second job, it is acceptable to chose moderate proven loads from manuals, or the vast body of shooting data, and just use them to shoot a lot for practice. This is especially true if one wants to develop and maintain handgun proficiency. I never "developed" nor chronographed the thousands of 38 Special 148 grain wadcutters I shoot, I just use a Lee dipper and Bullseye powder. What your talking about is fascinating, but at 300 I am fine with a rifle for hunting that shoots an 1.0 to 1.25 MOA out to 400. And, I have no problem getting that with modern factory rifles and good ammo, nothing has been done to my Vanguard and with Federal ammo it is perfectly fine for hunting purposes. Some of the obsession with the precision your talking about leads people to hire others to do all this, depriving them of practice, and leading to the false expectations you have talked about in your other Videos. Once a load like your talking about is developed, how many hundreds of rounds would you say a person needs to shoot at unknown distances before they are up to the capabilities of that rifle? I say this all to stimulate you to make more videos getting into more depth about how these issues interact, and how they require us to squarely face the ethics of shooting and hunting.

I use Winchester brass myself. Best out there in my opinion.

What powder and primer recommendations for the 7 mm08

Very informative video! I have a rem 700 that shoots 3/16" groups at 200 yards with cheap federal power shock 150 grain. I want to start reloading it, what are some good powders to start with?

When you say it's harder to chronograph at 300 yards, are you talking muzzle velocity still?

Thank you Sir! This information is slowly disappearing in the coming generations!

Randy, why not the Speer Hot Cor?

Randy, you mention lots of bullets but not the Speer hot core. Why not?

What do you think about magnum primers in 270 win with RE26 powder. I'm trying some of the new 140gr Sierra Gamechanger. 24 inch barrel.

Standard deviation is the statistical average above and below the mean (middle) velocity. Ohler didn't create that math, although it may have been a feature he wanted incorporated into the data output from his chronos. Its not the only statistical data that indicates accuracy/uniformity, but it's an easily understood data point.

Standard deviation wasn’t coined by Ohler! Oh my….

Is h4350 good

If I consistently shot .300 at 100 yards, I'd probably be so excited I'd shoot 4 inches at 300 yards. LOL

While I do appreciate the information you are conveying. I think when you mention Standard Deviation you actually mean extreme spread. Standard deviation is the variance around the mean. Meaning that out of a set of measurements what would you expect the next measurement to be. It is predictive. Extreme spread is what you are indicating by the numbers you are using “going from 20 to 10”, FPS I presume. With three shots SD and ES mean nothing. For hunting application yes 3 shots are acceptable. But the likelihood that you would be able to pick 3 rounds out of a box of 20 and come up with the same SD or ES is near 0. Only a large sample size (greater than 100) truly validates SD and makes it worth talking about. The other thing is that I highly doubt that Ohler coined the phrase Standard deviation, since it has been in the context of statistics for however long people started understanding the predictive nature of numbers and measurements.

Can you make a good living gun smithing? I assume working for yourself is where the money is at.

Elmer Keith shoot and killed deer at 600 yards with a 44 handgun .