Why do cinematographers (sometimes) use clean lenses?

Рет қаралды 51,646

Күн бұрын

💭 Comment - Let us know what you think of clean cinema lenses down below!
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Chapters:
Intro - 00:00
Clean Characteristics - 01:12
ARRI Zeiss Master Primes - 05:13
ARRI Signature Primes - 07:16
Zeiss Supreme - 08:30
Leitz - 09:04
Tokina Vista - 09:45
Budget Clean Lenses - 11:04
Character In Camera or Post - 12:52

Пікірлер: 81

@87solarsky Ай бұрын

Great topic, seeing that most discussions tend towards lens "characteristics"...

@Krmelj Ай бұрын

Shout out to CVP for using and attributing Photography Life's field curvature diagram. The website is a treasure to anyone into photography as this channel is for video makers.

@sonofthesea Ай бұрын

I bought the Zeiss Otus set based on recommendations by CVP and I was not disappointed, thank you

@SuLu_B Ай бұрын

It feels like everyone wants an easy path to visual interest, hence the huge jump in interest in vintage glass or swirly bokeh. It's the same trap we fell into when full frame first became available to the masses with a DSLR -- shooting at f1.4 is a great way to trick the viewer into thinking "this image is higher quality and more artistic!" As many love to point out with aperture, most DPs shoot at f2.8 and above and using ultra shallow or deep focus is a creative choice. Characterful lenses should be a creative choice with intention behind it, not a crutch to just try and make whatever you point the camera at look "better" without having to put any thought into framing, composition, lighting, movement, etc. Roger Deakins has made some of the most beautiful and visually intriguing images of our generation, and he doesn't fall back to the crutches of Helios-44 or anamorphic everything to achieve it. I am probably biased as almost all my lenses are Sony GM, but I do own a single vintage manual lens for the rare times a project needs that look.

@shueibdahir Ай бұрын

I might sound a bit funny but I absolutely LOVEEEEE the look of Sigma ART lenses. They look so high end and make any camera that shoots RAW produce beautiful imagery

@DastanZhumagulov Ай бұрын

It’s pretty easy to control your look when you’re doing one man band stuff, but when working in a production environment it’s gotten all too easy for a DP to loose creative control over the final image with client/agency/artist/producer/network/shitty colorist being able to manipulate the image in post to look nothing like you intended, and even possibly make you look bad by doing that. This is why DPs choose lenses with a certain character, why they choose to shoot a certain film stock or put a physical diffusion filter. So that some stupid marketing manager won’t ruin your look that you spent blood and sweat crafting

@SuLu_B Ай бұрын

@@DastanZhumagulov I work on smaller sets and projects where I can usually maintain control over the visuals through the editing process, or I'll be handling the process myself. You make a good point. I might be more eager to use characterful lenses if I was in fear of losing too much creative control. I usually have no issue working *for* a client, but I also haven't really had someone push very hard for something I thought looked objectively terrible. I'm okay with "different" especially when working on client projects, but I won't let "shitty" slide even if I'm being paid regardless.

@Eyeofkamau Ай бұрын

F1.4 simply doesn’t suit every shot. It’s more about what we prefer as creatives, rather than what we can get away with because the audience that may not know better can be tricked. There are times where shooting that shallow is awesome, and times where it’s a silly decision. I like to have different lenses for different kinds of work because my clean lenses are clean and boring (fine for commercial work) whereas lenses with character have a creative look to them that allow me to visually tell a story more effectively and efficiently - without having to try and recreate that look in post (which often can’t be recreated without looking inorganic).

@SuLu_B Ай бұрын

@@EyeofkamauI didn't say we should shoot at f1.4. I was saying that the mentality that leads to shooting everything at f1.4 is the same mentality that leads to shooting everything on Helios or anamorphic glass. It's not always a bad idea and some projects need that look (in camera is indeed best), but too many people just shoot crazy lenses without thinking about if it really serves the project. There was a similar wave of obsession around mist filters and glimmer glass a couple years ago that has thankfully moved past us.

@cinemaipswich4636 Ай бұрын

The best thing about clean footage, is that you can dial in a "look". In post production there are filters, LUTs, stock types and many other tools to give your footage the look that you want. This gives you a choice, before you do delivery. If you use a "character" lens you have basically used a physical "burn in".

@shueibdahir Ай бұрын

There's only two sets of glass i've been blown away by and makes my work look really good. Sigma ART (EF w/ HSM)and Zeiss OTUS. Nothing beats them

@TechnoBabble 13 күн бұрын

I absolutely love the later BIG Sigma Art lenses. The 28, 40, and 105 f/1.4 are all incredible.

@Auris. Ай бұрын

Clean lenses can also be unique. I've seen countless films and series with 'Cooke look', but those straight aperture blades can be distracting, especially when shooting specular highlights through the leaves. On the other hand, a drama I watched recently had these backlit night scenes with soft waterfall bokeh, whilst the subject was crystal clear with no flare and minimal loss of contrast. I can't find what lenses they used, but I'm fairly certain Arri Master Anamorphic lenses are the only ones that can give you that.

@justjanne-de Ай бұрын

I love my Fujinon MK zooms, they're cleaner than most primes and I absolutely understand why Cameron shot Avatar 2 on them, even though they're a budget lens.

@TheRealJamesWu Ай бұрын

Thank you again for making such a subjective field as objective as possible. I think it is much needed.

@BenjaminRowlandTV Ай бұрын

Glad to see a video about clean lenses. I appreciate that you discussed the variety across the price spectrum, each with the pros and cons mentioned in the video. For how great they look, you'd think the price of the Tokina Vista Primes would be much higher.

@nick_salazar Ай бұрын

Thanks for the great video as always. I'm planning a similar one, further exploring what you hint at towards the end: using a clean lens but optionally making it dirtier in post. I'm VERY interested in the new DZOFilm Arles set, can't wait to test them out at Cinegear,

@colemowery Ай бұрын

I'm pretty sure that Loki season 2 used the Tokina vistaprimes as well.

@jamarbrooks4690 Ай бұрын

That’s true. I listened to an interview of the cinematographer that did that season

@builtman2 Ай бұрын

And yet when you check the technical specs on imbd. The Tokina vistas are never mentioned. For example when you go to the Tokina website and go to the movies it was shot on. For example “El Camino” they only mention the higher end lenses on IMDb for that movie. I dont know why that bothers me so much lol

@REMY.C. Ай бұрын

According to IMDb it's Panavision T-Series Lenses, are they the same you're talking about but rehoused or is IMDb wrong?

@colemowery Ай бұрын

@@REMY.C. season 1 was Venice and the t series. Season 2 was mini LF and the vistaprimes. I can’t remember where I read it, but you can see them in the Assembled behind-the- scenes video

@johnclay7644 Ай бұрын

informative video thanks CVP

@martindoyle2446 Ай бұрын

Excellent vid! As always!!!

@CVPTV Ай бұрын

Thanks Martin! Jake

@BritishBrassBandinguk Ай бұрын

In relativity new to cine lenses and I find the technicalities really interesting. Have you got any videos on your channel covering lens basics?? I just find it all fascinating.

@simonc4764 Ай бұрын

When Blackmagic introduce the Ursa Mini 12k and claim its nothng to do with resolution but everything to do with have better colours they could not really prove it except when using the Zeiss Otus, clean aterfefact free lens that properly deliver colour seperation from the sensor that vintage and other inspired modern lenses cant do.

@OliKember Ай бұрын

The new DZO Arles are looking like another fabulous sharp, compact and affordable set of FF primes with an extra stop of shallow DOF and better CA than the Vespid.

@12yfilms Ай бұрын

I love my Dullens APO mini primes. They help create a beautiful image.

@kylehaggard7348 Ай бұрын

Great video, Jake

@CVPTV Ай бұрын

Thanks Kyle! Jake

@abavariannormiepleb9470 18 күн бұрын

A suggestion for a recommendation video oriented at small budgets: What Super 35 cinema lenses have a large enough image circle so that they can also used with L-Mount adapters on Full-Frame cameras without issues like vignetting?

@GaleriaPuntoCiego Ай бұрын

WELL DONE, JAKE!!! THANKS FOR THIS MASTERCLASS. BEST REGARDS, FROM SPAIN. NANO.

@MrObiorah 16 күн бұрын

Thanks

@thegospelcallTGC 5 күн бұрын

Lots of very good info. I am wondering what you think of the Xeen CF and if they classify as clean, but even so thank you for the video and God bless you.

@DucatiKozak Ай бұрын

Another useful informative video, thanks! Is there a reason you left out Irix cinema lenses in your value for dollar category? Have you tested them? Do you offer them? I would have really found it useful to see your assessment.

@MrJamesfisher1981 27 күн бұрын

I really enjoyed this video, thank you! Have you had an experience with the Zeiss CP.3 cine lenses? I've heard these described as "clean" and they sit at the more affordable end of the cine lens scale.

@obarovft314 Ай бұрын

Fantastic video. Can you do one for zoom? Thanks

@alanbesedin Ай бұрын

Amazing video, coming from a vintage lens fanatic 🤣

@Whaever_1981 Ай бұрын

Great video! Could you share link to that masterclass? Can’t find that excerpt from your vid after re-watching second time (with too much skimming;)

@shadowshapers 18 күн бұрын

What's the timestamp where they mention the class?

@deniszarubin2920 19 күн бұрын

I would prefer either clean lens like Masterprime or some very charactered ones like Mercury Anamorphics. Depends on the project of course.

@seventhwaymedia1254 Ай бұрын

Zeiss CP.3 Full Frame not in line up?

@creativenords Ай бұрын

Love my Otus 85.

@CVPTV Ай бұрын

They really are fantastic! Jake

@invisibleadversary Ай бұрын

Also, true 4k looks cleaner than 35mm film at this point which is what the majority of films have historically been shot on.

@dereknunn2699 Ай бұрын

Massively false

@tw06le1 Ай бұрын

I makes sense to shoot it clean, then add the characteristics as needed. Otherwise, if the shoot calls for an artsy feel from the start and its possible to find said visual style before post, then full send. Learning film making there are so many competing feelings, but the audience has no Idea of the technicalities especially if the visual story is well communicated.

@orgowahnsinn Ай бұрын

I’ve noticed strong focus breathing in Hawk lenses. What’s your take on these lenses? They gain increasing popularity and I wonder why…

@adriancrespo4274 Ай бұрын

It’s really interesting to me how cleaner optics have somewhat fallen out of fashion, I wonder if or more likely when they’ll be popular again. There’s also this fun in between area of vintage lenses (that I’m a fan of) that almost fall into this category of cleaner optics Vintage Leica R lenses definitely come to mind, or my own personal “clean” set of Mamiya 645 lenses

@simonc4764 Ай бұрын

Why cinematographers (the best ones like Deakins) use clean sharp lenses? It is because he knows his lightings and create conditions with lights to achieve what he wants. Deakins don't even use diffusion filters. In effect a perfect artefact free lens is liken to a blank canvas. Lens that are soft with artefact and warm cast, etc, full of problems but lend itself to what others describe as "character" to tell a story are useful but cannot be useful for all types of stories or projects.

@emmanuelboadi3176 Ай бұрын

I hope I didn’t miss it but what do you think of the new Zeiss nano primes? Would you consider them another clean option?

@CVPTV Ай бұрын

Check our review of them out here! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nJOhlb2GrdCzcqM.html Jake

@geoffreybassett6741 27 күн бұрын

The CA on those is pretty bad.

@C.C.Cope220 Ай бұрын

I think we tend to fixate so much on camera’s and the technology of sharpness that we can forget the other departments. I was at a recent panel and a hair and makeup up deisnegrr was talking about how on the recent season of Bridgerton the swap to 8k (I assume leaping form Sony Venice 1 6k to Venice 2 8k) caused the wigs to look horrible.* Like the hair nets they have always used were suddenly very noticeable so they had to try and relearn their craft and techniques for cheating. And the same thing applies to production design and costuming. Do I think vintage or grungy or character lenses also have the benefit of saving time and money in other departments since sharp 8k, won’t only add to the cost of data storage! Though ultimately as with most things it’s up to the artists involved and the story should come first. I just don’t want to see a whiplash effect where everyone starts saying “only the best DPs shoot sharp and with deep focus.” Like people so often assumes a trend = bad, and the mindset should be more about finding what you need for the specific project not worrying about what other creatives are over using or under utilizing. *bridgerton films on arri signature prime lenses

@loudandclearmedia Ай бұрын

Let's discuss clean cine lenses for all budgets. First up, the Grand-Uber ARRI Zeiss Signature Plus Deakins Baller. It's dope...moving on.

@CVPTV Ай бұрын

Shame you didn't watch the whole video as we mention several affordable sets throughout. Jake

@loudandclearmedia Ай бұрын

@@CVPTV Yes Jake, I saw those ones too. 😁 I was curious, with all the Zeiss mentions throughout why the CP3 and the new mirrorless mount ones weren’t discussed though. I would consider those “clean”. Great video, bud.

@connornyhan Ай бұрын

0:06 what's the triangular aperture lens?

@CVPTV Ай бұрын

Angenieux Optimo Prime, you can change the Iris in it between a few different ones, a 3 blade one being the one in this shot. Jake

@MonigMedia 24 күн бұрын

Arri Signature primes are the absolute standard ill tell ya

@lerecklessbadger2411 Ай бұрын

Why hasn't a single word been said about Canon CN-E primes?

@CVPTV Ай бұрын

Because I wouldn't classify them as clean lenses. Jake

@loudandclearmedia Ай бұрын

@@CVPTV me neither. They have a great, but strong look.

@None-lh5mx 15 күн бұрын

Otus is just missing a 35 mm or 40mm badly IMO. There are soooo many lenses in between a 28mm and 55mm.

@CVPTV 14 күн бұрын

God I would love a 40mm Otus! Jake

@robertdouble559 Ай бұрын

Lenses with a very imposing "look" can be so distracting if used without a valid narrative reason. It's so inside baseball, no viewers could give a toss. If you're shooting projects on wanky lenses primarily to impress other cinematographers than you're running a fools errand.

@ruikazane5123 Ай бұрын

Makes you feel less of an idiot using the same E mount G lens for the Alpha cameras onto a Venice I or a Burano...but of course, directors and cinematographers have that look they want to achieve. Seeing how these "still" cameras have rather good video features and performance, their lenses won't be out of place shooting video...

@sonnyjostins6158 8 күн бұрын

A shame this video was made before the arles release. Arles review incoming?

@manuelmannymoreno1070 17 күн бұрын

Hit that “like” button if you still use Sigma Art 18-35mm F1.8 🎉

@user-eh8jv2em2o 5 күн бұрын

Did you make this up? I mean the term "clean lens"? That's way too confusing.

@user-kc7gd7ux6r Ай бұрын

first

@adoshaw Ай бұрын

Sigma ART are pretty clean lenses.

@gundarsmiks4889 Күн бұрын

You kept repetaing the same things again, and again. But never realy answered any questions!!! Did you talked to any of the directors??? no... Then why is your title "why do directors choose" ???? No director in your video said anything. You just babled about lenses... And realy said absolutely nothing... I guess you are on the right track. But kinda realy got lost on the way. Or just REALY mistitled the video. Do some interwievs next time. So its no you talking about the lens. But actual directors telling what they think. The video actualy should be titled "what i think of clean lenses!"...