Not quite indoor but 50% covered. It's the Sherif's training center.
@danulman8837 Жыл бұрын
The box of Federal range I bought approximately 8 months ago had two big strikes going against it-it was ridiculously expensive and the most unreliable box of 22 ammo I ever bought. I never went more than two magazines in my rifles and pistols without a failure of some kind. They run 100% with all the other ammo I use. It was so bad I gave half a box (400 rounds) to a guy at the range but warned him of the issues. He was shooting it as I left and I heard him swearing as I got in my vehicle-I yelled “told ya” as I drove away. 😎
@Moondog2A Жыл бұрын
LOL. When I bought this test box as the middle of the COVID ammo spike and with inflation we'll never see the price of ammo before COVID.
@pikesticker Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video. Plenty of naysayers out there running down Federal blue box but between all my pistols and rifles, I've burned through over 1000 rounds without any significant issues no different than what I encounter with other brands. Nothing is completely perfect all the time. A few months ago I was working up a D.O.P.E. sheet for my Savage Mark II with the Federal blue box loads. I had a 50 yard zero and was wanting to figure true bullet drop at 200 yards on my 6 foot tall paper target. I shot a 9 shot group of 3.77" which was 1.8 MOA. But since then I've just added a 40 MOA rail and up'd my scope to a 4-12x50mm to start working up a new sheet for 500 yard steel. With the optics and rail most of the HiVel brands will give me a Crosshair zero at 500 yards. Now it will be just a matter of finding a round stable enough to produce acceptable consistency on my 12"x24" plate. 1 out of 10 is no fun. I'll take 5/10 though. :-)
@Moondog2A Жыл бұрын
500yrds?! That's impressive for 22LR.
@kencarnley71012 жыл бұрын
I only shoot CCI Standard Velocity in my CZ457. Shoots very well and my local Walmarts carry it. You can buy it if you happen to be there when the designated employee who is authorized to sell ammo is there.
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
I used to shoot CCI Standard but it has only recently now starting to come back in stock locally. I'm going to test that out next. Please subscribe and hit the bell button to be notified when I do.
@rudolphferdinand36342 жыл бұрын
At the neighborhood Walmart three per day of any brand of ammo, but on my trip to wally world, I'll buy three boxes of the limit. Cheap CCI/SV shoots well for me the cost per box is $4.98. RAR 18” heavy barrel.
@stileshumphrey4195 Жыл бұрын
I thought Walmart got out of the ammo selling business? Maybe it’s just Commie California😢
@bkennb Жыл бұрын
@@stileshumphrey4195 they sell rifle ammo only
@stileshumphrey4195 Жыл бұрын
@@bkennb Are you in California? I recall my local Walmart in California got rid of all their ammo a little over 3 years ago. I have not returned since.
@EspritBerlin2 жыл бұрын
Hi! Thanks for your cool content, especially for testing and measurements. Hearsay does not help if we have a technical sport.
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
Thanks. I enjoy sharing my testing of different ammo in my guns and of course every gun is different but if we all share data points, it's helpful. Thanks for subscribing.
@rudolphferdinand36342 жыл бұрын
I have watched 35/45 videos on the 22-caliber cartridge and rifle to see what is out there, and to see, why all the excitement over the 22-caliber round? What I have determined is, that an accurate 22-caliber rifle does not mean an accurate rifle combination. Costly ammunition will not equate to accuracy. It is all about what your rifle likes that can change from lot to lot. Pursuit of Accuracy YT video.
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
I actually talked to Josh on Pursuit of Accuracy and got some good tips. I may come back to this ammo at a later date and do a 30 round comparison just to see if those groups close up with another 10 rounds? Thanks for subscribing!
@rudolphferdinand36342 жыл бұрын
I put down the bucks for a cheap 22-caliber rifle. The RAR cost me $400, so it, and a cheap box of 22-caliber ammo by CCI/SV $4.65 a box; the range day came. Now RAR, I installed a Vortex PST scope 5-25x FFP/MOA old eyes need better glass, I'm 70 years old. Three groups @50yards five rounds: .40”, .60”, .42” average.47”. The 22-caliber bolt action rifle is a lot of fun to shoot. I got a Ruger 10-22; it's a dust collector.
@rudolphferdinand36342 жыл бұрын
Well, I thought that push the limits to do a 100 yards accuracy test. Before I show the results, I need to say this, “50 yards no problem, but it to 100 yards with a slow cartridge like the 22LR; it takes work mental concentration. Five 22-caliber rounds @ 100 yards: four rounds into (.250”), five oal group size (.660”). Way too stressful. I will only do out to 75 yards.
@thenextchapter9304 Жыл бұрын
The Federal 800 round Range Pack works great in my Savage MKII bolt action rifle. Because of its lack of lubrication, it is one of the few rounds that will not gum up the breach and cause extraction issues in the rifle.
@Moondog2A Жыл бұрын
That's a fair point. How about CCI? Hope you subscribe.
@thenextchapter9304 Жыл бұрын
@@Moondog2A on the advice of friends I tried CCI standard velocity. The CCI rounds gummed up the breach very quickly.
@Moondog2A Жыл бұрын
@@thenextchapter9304 Norma is even more waxy than CCI.
@nilsincidaho56922 жыл бұрын
In my CZ 457 Jaguar I have had amazing results shooting the Federal Range Pack ammo at 100 yards. For an HV bulk packaged round it produces impressive groups. But the Federal Gold Medal Match and the SK Rifle Match are by far the more accurate, and much more expensive too than the Range Pack ammo. This ammo is not readily available at local stores. I have to keep my eyes open for it, and when I see it, snatch up a box (800 rounds). Last box I paid $69.
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
That's a great price. Its been $80 or more for a brick online at PSA. And more than that for me locally. I recently found 1.5 boxes of Federal Gold Medal .22LR in the bottom of my storage ammo can and I hope to test it out. Sadly I haven't seen that ammo sold locally since before COVID. Please subscribe and hit the Bell and you'll be notified when I do that test.
@mdees88 Жыл бұрын
I just tested 8 different types of ammo the other day in my CZ 457 Pro Varmint. I pull a bore snake (with the brush removed), shoot 20 foulers, shoot six 5-shot groups at 50yds, then pull the bore snake again and repeat. I use the best 5 groups for an average. Norma Tac-22 averaged .52" at 50yds in the wind. My best group was .22". I had three 4-shot groups that were .3" or less. The fouling rounds are important IMO. Just from my testing that day, it seems the groups started tightening up between the 5th and 10th shot with most brands. I shoot 20 to be on the safe side as I want my results to be as accurate as possible. I just wish I had a 50yd indoor range near me to eliminate wind as a variable. I will definitely have to give federal blue pack a try...
@Moondog2A Жыл бұрын
Have you tested out Federal Auto Match?
@mdees88 Жыл бұрын
@@Moondog2A I have some, but I have not tested it. I have only been testing subsonic loads since I use a suppressor. So far, I have tested CCI standard velocity, CCI pistol match, Norma tac-22, eley subsonic hollow point, eley target, eley club, eley match, sk pistol match, and sk rifle match....
@mdees88 Жыл бұрын
@@Moondog2A I just tested federal automatch yesterday, and five 5-shot groups averaged .65" which is not horrible, but nothing special. Eley subsonic hollow, sk rifle, and sk pistol match all averaged in the .4s. I did shoot the automatch at 200 and 285yds, and it did quite well. I didn't shoot groups, but I had no issues hitting steel at those distances. The federal only required 11.1 mils of elevation at 285 compared to 12 mils for sk pistol and 13.5 mils for norma tac-22.
@Moondog2A Жыл бұрын
@@mdees88 That's good info on those rounds. Thanks!
@7come11two Жыл бұрын
Occasionally, one of the best groups of the session will be my first five shots from a clean, cold barrel.
@Moondog2A Жыл бұрын
Some long range shooters use chilling fans to keep their barrels cold for matches.
@paulm96912 жыл бұрын
Interesting, I have been shooting norma tac at 100 yards through a cz 457 LRP . I'll be giving the Federal Champion a whirl just to see if it shoots any better.
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, let me know because I don't know if this is common in CZ 457's or what? Please subscribe.
@datapro007 Жыл бұрын
Big fan of your channel Dog. Thanks! Federal Range Pack / Auto-match are not the same as Federal Champion. Champion and Range Pack are both blue boxes. However, Champion is rated at 1240 fps but Range Pack / Auto-match are 1200fps. It appears to me you are shooting the Range Pack.
@Moondog2A Жыл бұрын
Thank you! Check out Federal's own website and see that this is Champion in Range Pack. www.federalpremium.com/rimfire/champion/champion-training---rimfire/11-729B800.html Range Pack refers to the size of the box. Champion refers to the bullet type (Lead round nose 40gr). The difference in FPS numbers may be rounding things off in older packaging?
@datapro007 Жыл бұрын
@@Moondog2A Thanks for your reply. I see what you mean, but neither the Range Pack boxes I have purchased nor the one displayed on Federal's own site say "Champion". They also say 1200 fps (as do the Automatch). The boxes marked "Champion" do list 1240 fps. Yeah, it is a bit confusing. If anyone else can shed some light on the distinction between the various Federal rounds I'll appreciate it. Has anyone done a chrono of the 1200 vs the 1240 fps?
@Moondog2A Жыл бұрын
@@datapro007 Do you have the white and black boxes with photos of the rounds on the box?
@datapro007 Жыл бұрын
@@Moondog2A I currently have the same 800 round blue box "Range Pack", not marked "Champion" as you have in this video. I also have a 325 round "Automatch" box in white and black. I have had a 325 round blue box marked "Champion" which shows 1240fps. The other two are marked "1200 fps". I don't know what distinguishes the rounds. They all look and weight the same.
@cacinaz8802 Жыл бұрын
I have been shooting the Range Pack (1200 FPS) that comes in the 800 round blue box. It is not the same as the Champion at 1240 FPS. Moondog was shooting the Range Pack as shown at 1:03 where is clearly shows 1200 FPS on the box . I consistently get sub MOA out of my CZ 457 (not MTR). I like that it is unlubricated. I keep my barrel super clean and there really is no "seasoning" required. I was so interested in this comparison because I have been thinking of trying the TAC-22, but I have left that thought by the door. BTW do not bother with the Federal VALUE Pack (also a blue box), which again is different and is subpar performance. SGAmmo is selling the Range Pack for $59 a box as of 3/22/2023. Thanks Moondog.
@TripleGRogerLait9 ай бұрын
Good vid, I enjoyed that buddy.👍
@Moondog2A9 ай бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it. Hope you subscribed?
@dodonpaa104 ай бұрын
I've bought the Normas really cheap here in Germany. I can just confirm the grouping. The weird thing is that after a while they're getting really accurate. Until I cleaned the barrel 😢 I switched to s&b
@Moondog2A4 ай бұрын
So the Norma may require a healthy coating of Norma wax before the groups tighten up? S&B is Sellier and Bellot?
@richardmattix53222 жыл бұрын
Yes Moondog I thought Norman would have done a lot better considering who made it but then you can`t tell till you try it so thank you .
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
I was a bit disappointed myself considering CZ used RWS ammo for proofing the barrel at the factory. Then again some ammo is tack sharp at 50yrds and then group very differently at 100yrds. Be sure to subscribe, thanks.
@nunya13287 ай бұрын
I have never tried this ammo as i still have a vomit taste in my mouth from that blue box champion garbage! I am going to grab some and give this a try. Would love to see this same test @50 for sure! Thanks for the video
@Moondog2A7 ай бұрын
You're welcome. Champion groups like garbage in my 10/22 and Marlin 60 but for some strange reason my CZ457 shoots this no problem.
@richardfisher36562 жыл бұрын
My cz457 is the complete opposite, it loves norma tac-22..
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
Tac22 isn't bad. It's great at 50yrs. But at 100 it opened up a bit but I was shocking to me how much better Champion did at that distance. I'm going to test out Fed AutoMatch next since that's supposed to slightly better than Champion. Thanks for subscribing.
@erockoutdoors6332 жыл бұрын
Interesting results.
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
I think so too! I was not in any way expecting this. I was almost going to give away the rest of my box of ammo because blue box shot so poorly in my 10/22.
@humpy936 Жыл бұрын
That is very surprising to me.
@Moondog2A Жыл бұрын
Me too. Hope you subscribe.
@jamesstratton44882 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
You're welcome! Please subscribe.
@charlotteresidentr67992 жыл бұрын
Dang sorry I told you to get Norma thanks for doing it tho I really was wondering what it was going to do my savage guns shoot Norma honestly the best I have tried over 20 different types of ammo but I only have savage .22s and they love Norma tac22- cci standard velocity- aguila standard velocity those shoot the best sorry that was heart breaking more Norma for me tho I just got another 2k rounds of it when it was on sale at palmetto state army I kid you not it shoots better then me
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
Be sure to subscribe! Well it did get better by the last group. My buddy @pursuitofaccuracy says it usually takes him 15-20 shots to season his CZ457 but he's got a a crazy upgraded gun. Still, compared to the cost per round difference between these two is substantial as far as my local sporting goods store. I may come back to this ammo and do a 30 shot test and see where that goes.
@charlotteresidentr67992 жыл бұрын
@@Moondog2A yeah I get it thanks how much do you find that federal for around there I actually haven’t tried that ammo
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
@@charlotteresidentr6799 I bought the 800rnd brick of Federal it was $80/800rnds on sale over Black Friday 2020 at Sportsmans Warehouse. It was the same price earlier this year online at PSA.
@Crete1943 Жыл бұрын
Norma TAC-22 has in fact a 41.4 grains projectile, not 40 grains.
@Moondog2A Жыл бұрын
Really? Do you know how much Champion, CCI Standard other rounds deviate from the published grain weight?
@Crete1943 Жыл бұрын
@@Moondog2A Sure. Only, most other LRs deviate downwards from the factory info on projectile weight, at 39 grains or even 38, while the Norma TA-22 is a bit heavier at 41.4 grains, after sampling box after box for months now.
@Moondog2A Жыл бұрын
@@Crete1943 You've been pulling bullets? Good on you.
@roberthennesey51664 ай бұрын
shocking!
@Moondog2A4 ай бұрын
100%
@richardlee44382 жыл бұрын
I’m shooting blue box on PRS matches w a 10/22 and it’s fine
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
Wow. What kind of barrel do you have on that 10/22. I wonder if Blue Box only shoots well on certain kind of twists or tight chambers?
@richardlee44382 жыл бұрын
@@Moondog2A I have a 10/22 with a Kidd barrel
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
Those Kidd barrels are bored out by Walther and is nice tight Kidd competition chamber from what I understand. No wonder it this shoots well in your 10/22. Thanks for subscribing.
@jwhoa17332 жыл бұрын
Not the same gun,but my hk 416 22 gives best accuracy cold barrel.then again its a pencil barrel and once those heat up your groups are toast
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
I have the same problem with my G36/22. Please remember to Subscribe to the my channel.
@lawrencehawk51792 жыл бұрын
Tac 22 did well in a Ruger, try them in yours.
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
Did they do well in your Ruger 10/22 or RPR? Thanks for subscribing
@lawrencehawk51792 жыл бұрын
@@Moondog2A 10/22
@cncmillman2 жыл бұрын
1:42 kind of funny that you say Norma is one of the more expensive ammo. Just bought some online for $3.80 per box from AB guns and locally for $6.00, I'm in the bay area too. At 50 yards it's pretty good but at 100 yards I also don't get good results but then again every time I shoot 100 yards it's really windy.
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
Yes, they've gotten cheaper. When they first came out they were $11/box of 50 at Big 5 (how much I paid for this test box.) Which range are you usually at, Metcalf, Livermore, Richmond? Thanks for subscribing.
@cncmillman2 жыл бұрын
@@Moondog2A Funny you say Big 5 since yes my local Big 5 wants $12 a box but right across the street is a gun shop that was half the price, this was back in March of this year. Normally go to Livermore, find it to be one of the better "local" ranges.
@richardschofield22782 жыл бұрын
in traverse city Michigan ???
@cncmillman2 жыл бұрын
@@richardschofield2278 yes AB guns in Michigan since it’s significantly cheaper than what I can get locally, even though here in California we have to pay an additional charge to FFL for mail order ammo. Used to buy a couple boxes or brick max now I buy by the case…
@shannonfritsch6647 Жыл бұрын
2.98 box for case, hope my 10-22 likes it.
@charlesroberson3761 Жыл бұрын
Go Fed
@Moondog2A Жыл бұрын
I hope you subscribe.
@blairbreland14432 жыл бұрын
Not a fair comparison cause you are taking a cheap bulk ammo and comparing to a match like ammo. No matter the result cheap ammo is at a disadvantage
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
All the more reason to be impressed when the "cheap" ammo performs better than the "match" ammo, no?
@marktracht77822 жыл бұрын
Does TAC-22 have lot #s ?
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
I'd read on Rimfirecentral that they have a 5-digit lot # on the boxes but I couldn't find a 5-digit number on mine. A 7-digit number that may or may not be the Item #? Dunno.
@marktracht77822 жыл бұрын
@@Moondog2A I have been buying it for a year and a half and they all have the same numbers on the box.
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
@@marktracht7782 That what I thought. Guess not?
@cncmillman2 жыл бұрын
Yes it has lot numbers. It’s embossed on the top of the flap when you open box on bar code side
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
@@cncmillman Dang there are embossed numbers but they are hidden inside the tuck-in flap of the the bar-code side opening.
@mikestuart52782 жыл бұрын
That test is totaly misleading. The federal ammo is over1240 fps and the norma is only 1100 fps it is going to shoot lower at a hundred yards.
@Moondog2A2 жыл бұрын
This wasn't a test to see which landed closer to sticker. It's a grouping test. If If Norma hits lower on the paper than Federal, that doesn't matter, I can always re-zero later. What matters is consistency.