Danforth vs Fortress Part 2. Anchor Test Video # 141

  Рет қаралды 7,192

SV Panope

SV Panope

Жыл бұрын

Comparison Testing of a 20lb. Danforth 18H and a 15lb. Fortress FX-23 in multiple seabeds and protocols.

Пікірлер: 31
@dustman96
@dustman96 Жыл бұрын
I can't tell you how much I appreciate people who take a genuine interest in the fundamentals of their task. Thank you for this thorough investigation.
@MiQBohlin
@MiQBohlin Жыл бұрын
I’m still (or probably even more) impressed by your dedication in this long time project.
@johnkettlewell5991
@johnkettlewell5991 11 ай бұрын
Another great video. A couple of comments. I find to properly set a Fortress often does require the jerk method. Since I use them as secondary anchors in Bahamian moors and such, what I usually do is drop the hook from the dinghy in shallow water. I then pull in the line manually until it is firm and then I apply several quick hard jerks by pulling on the line hard. You can really feel the anchors dig in. Another way to do it is drop the anchor, then drift back until you get the proper scope out. Back down on the anchor and chances are you will note it dragging, but then let the boat drift forward a bit as the line goes slack then put your boat into reverse again to gain some speed in reverse. Once the slack comes out of the rode the anchor will get a good hard jerk. I sometimes do this with other anchors too. In any case, I have used Fortresses several times in bad storms, up to hurricane force, and if they are initially well dug in they will hold forever. After Hurricane Bob (with gusts over 100mph) it took me most of a day to gradually pull a couple of FX23s out of a mud bottom in New England. Something would have broken before either of those would have dragged.
@svalchemy
@svalchemy Жыл бұрын
We are very much on the same page here. We have a steel pilothouse cutter about (I estimate) twice the displacement of yours. Our primary is a SPADE 30 kilo model on 3/8" all chain. This is approximately just under twice the size recommended for our 40 foot LOD length. About the worst thing you can say of this anchor is that it's TOO good in terms of burying itself halfway to China and being a bit of a hassle to retrieve without pulling up its own considerable mass in mud bottom. Our secondary/kedging and stern anchor are two Fortresses, an FX-23 at the bow and an FX-16 at the stern. Both are on three-metre chain leaders and 150 feet or so of three-strand nylon. We have yet to use the stern anchor, but the larger Fortress at the bow is a good choice for a lunch hook or if we want to take a nap on a light air day. I never use less than 5:1 scope and always attempt to "power-set" the Fortress into the sea bed, and yes, it prefers sandy bottoms. Those limitations noted, when we (hand) pull in the rode and get to 1:1, the Fortress usually pulls out smoothly and of course can be stowed and cleaned off quickly. That is perhaps an element that is not acknowledged as a benefit: if conditions are changing rapidly, the ability to unanchor rapidly can be an advantage. Once again, great work and great analysis.
@brice5542
@brice5542 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for all your hard work. 65 lb Mantus, storm anchor, for my 37 Tayana, it's a beast, I have A Fortress also, anchor can sail if moving fast with Nylon Rode, I have chain rode, much better for Fortress. IMHO Cheers
@MorenoConte
@MorenoConte 3 ай бұрын
65 LB to 37? Wow great!
@johnlartin3953
@johnlartin3953 5 ай бұрын
The chain digging a trench in the mud is keeping the mud palm from properly tipping the tips down into the mud when going slowly. When you rev the engine and burst forward it pulls the chain up and levers the mud palm to push the tip down and allows the sudden set. If set with gently with very short scope and then full scope laid out before loading it will avoid the trench issue. Will set every time. Awesome show big fan.
@sailingsegundo4644
@sailingsegundo4644 2 ай бұрын
I have been anchoring with danforth and fortress anchors for 50 years in soft sand and mud . Those types of anchors need to have some cantanery to lift the shank and drive in the flukes down. When your Pulling with all that chain it's infinite scope draging it flat across the bottom. I would try to test again with 6 foot of chain
@lkelly4337
@lkelly4337 Жыл бұрын
Great video! Thanks When it comes to this type of anchor. I recommend and prefer the french FOB.
@braithmiller
@braithmiller Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the thorough study. While not my favorite anchors, consistently available heavy Danforths have yet to fail me while not having my trust. The mud fouling or objects I can easily see why Delta styles became preferred on inland waterways. I will check my angles!
@kurtism9040
@kurtism9040 11 ай бұрын
I think the main takeaway from this, for me, is that if I am on board and go through a 180-degree swing I shouldn't hesitate to just start the engine bring the anchor up and clean it before redeploying it.
@carlosmathias9908
@carlosmathias9908 6 ай бұрын
It appears to me that the danforth has it's opening angle too open, the maximum opening angle is 30°; it prevents it to hold in sand.
@brianwhalen7783
@brianwhalen7783 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the great videos as always, super informative! I currently have a big Vulcan as my primary anchor and am thinking of getting a Viking (although they’ve been out of stock for months) and a fortress to have a diverse set of options. Given your comments about scope with the fortress do you think that if I planned on running 45’ of 3/8 chain and enough rope rode to always have a 7/1 scope that the fortress would set reliably? I’d be very interested in what ever feedback you have to offer! Thank You! Brian
@flygoodwin
@flygoodwin Жыл бұрын
Hi Brian. In some seabeds the Fortress needs long scope/horizontal pull to engage properly, while in other seabed types the anchor needs short scope/upward pull. This is very discouraging as it is often impossible to know the composition/characteristics of a new seabed.
@brianwhalen7783
@brianwhalen7783 Жыл бұрын
That is discouraging. We’re on Lake Michigan right now and to the best of my knowledge we’ve never slipped anchor but I’m guessing that it has to be one of the easiest places on earth for an anchor to grab. We’re planning on taking the boat into blue water soon though. We purchased the Vulcan (73lb on an 88 H45) based on your research and are elated with… I sleep soundly at night, thank you! We have 300’ of 3/8 chain and it’s amazing how after the initial anchor set followed by a wind change how the chain seams to hold on the sea bed and doesn’t eventually straighten out (overhead view would be a curved 90 degree curve). I’m thinking I may opt for a Viking 25 as a backup/storm anchor. Thank you for the advise!
@DomTomac
@DomTomac Жыл бұрын
Great test. Thanks! One thought regarding the Fortress failure to set reliability in soft mud. I noticed you were using 80' of 5/16 chain on this anchor. However, if you look at the recommendations on the Fortress website, you'll see they only recommend 6 to 8 feet of chain. The idea being a long heavy chain digs into soft mud, thus pulling the shaft of the anchor down relative to the flukes. This in turn keeps the mud-palms from effectly turning the flukes down into the seabed and they therefore skim over the seabed. Maybe that's why the Fortress dug-in at higher speed; the chain was pulled straighter and not imbeding into the seabed, keeping the anchor's shaft level & allowing the mud-palms to pivot the flukes down into the seabed? Also, from a practical standpoint, why buy a light anchor and then add allot of heavy chain to it? The most probable ringing for this anchor would be a nylon rode & little to no chain. The Fortress website tends to support this view. Perhaps if you're out testing it again, try it without chain? Thanks again!
@flygoodwin
@flygoodwin Жыл бұрын
Hello Ron, You raise some valid questions that certainly deserve a detailed response. First, in the SOFT MUD seabed, I can verify that the long chain does indeed result in a higher frequency of setting problems. However, I believe that the theory of the chain digging into the seabed (and pulling the shank down) does not apply here because this soft mud is firm enough to support the chain fully. Evidence for this comes from countless video images that I have recorded of chains landing and being pulled along this seabed without any sign of "self burying". Interestingly, in the SANDY MUD seabed, the anchor behaves exactly the opposite as in the SOFT MUD, in that the anchor has a much higher probability of setting properly when using LONG CHAIN. I'll mention that my choice of chain lengths that I used for the tests in this video was driven entirely by my strong desire to match the protocols used by the other "20 pound range" anchors (fair tests). Lastly, I had I good look at the fortress website and although I found a section for "support hardware" where they recommend 3/8" chain (heavier than I was using), I did not see where they made a recommendation for rode LENGTH. Could you double check that data and direct me to where you found it? Thank you very much for your comments. Steve
@DomTomac
@DomTomac Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the reply Steve. I will look into where I read the chain length recommendation for Fortress anchors.
@DomTomac
@DomTomac Жыл бұрын
I found it. It is in the "Frequently Asked Questions" section. It states: How much chain should I use? We recommend using 6 ft (2m) of chain for every 25 ft (8m) of water depth. Coastal anchoring is often used in under 50 ft (16m) of water depth, so vessel owners commonly use 10-15 feet (3-5m) of chain with their Fortress Anchors. I also found the same recommendation in Fortress's "Safe Anchoring Guide" (downloadable pdf) This guide also has an illustration of a rode buried in soft mud & recommends shorting scope to 2:1 to raise the shank & cause the flukes to dig in. Of course Fortress also recommends using the 45 deg. fluke setting for soft mud which you're shown to be ineffective. Any way that was the root of my original comment. I never anchor in 25+" so that part didn't register in my memory bank! Perhaps in some seabed types these recommendations are valid? I guess that's why it such an interesting topic? Best Regards!
@DaveWatts_ejectamenta
@DaveWatts_ejectamenta 11 ай бұрын
I get the point of the veer and 180 reset tests, but they are a bit unrealistic, there is no way that the wind would change direction so abruptly. I wonder what the evidence is for these types of movement to cause anchors to fail in real world cases?
@Troy-x7e
@Troy-x7e Жыл бұрын
So I live just outside New Orleans and I've had some serious adventures anchoring, hoping for some input/feedback. I've got a 46' Carver, displacement around 18T, and the boat previously had a 44# Delta. The bottoms here are silt/mud, and the Delta would just drag and drag. I went to a Sea Choice 40# "Danforth style" anchor (long story short, tried to save a buck) and bent the shaft about 60 degrees first time out. Based on your videos and other research, I'm leaning heavily towards a Viking 20 or 25, but your closing comments about soupy mud bottoms is making me wonder a bit if I shouldn't just get an FX-55 or 85 (Or a Danforth 60H). Any thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated!
@Steve-ul8qb
@Steve-ul8qb Жыл бұрын
What type do the local commercial fishermen use? I find that a good starting point as they often have generational experience. Silty soft mud... not easy.
@flygoodwin
@flygoodwin Жыл бұрын
Assuming your bottoms are similar to my "soft mud" seabed, then just about anything will be better than the Delta. Viking (and Mantus) are the best non-pivoting anchors in the soft mud, but yes, the Danforth and Fortress will have even greater holding. I really need to investigate it further, but it appears that the Danforth might be among the better anchors a resetting in soft mud assuming the substrate does not have objects that can block the pivot. Tough choice. The advise to look at what the local fisherman are using is sound.
@dustman96
@dustman96 Жыл бұрын
These tests seem to have illustrated well the limitations of this type of design.
@svalchemy
@svalchemy Жыл бұрын
Yes, but they act quite differently than do the plow types in how they hook into the sea bed. I find if I'm going to have more than one anchor (we have four aboard), I like having "opposing" types because while my best bower is, to date, good or at least adequate to any seabeds we've encountered, I would be kidding myself to assume it wouldn't drag in some conditions, and that's where having an anchor working on a different design with different geometry is handy.
@teroellila4989
@teroellila4989 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for a great video. Some time ago you tested the holding of a tandem anchor. The results were surprisingly poor. In my previous boat I had 20kg Vulcan in the bow and old 20 kg CQR as a spare anchor. I had a plan to use them together in bad conditions. I planned to attach the CQR with 5 metres of chain so that the attach point is about 2 metres in front of Vulcan with a shackle to the Vulcan´s chain. When the secondary anchor is not attached in any part of the primary anchor then both anchors should stay better in right position when wind direction changes. This kind of setup could be difficult to make on bad weather and it could also be tough job to dismantle without extra pair of hand on deck. Do you think that this could work in real life?
@flygoodwin
@flygoodwin Жыл бұрын
The set-up you describe is sometimes called "Tandem Vee" and can indeed be useful. Almost certainly better than the tandem set-up that I tested. But, if conditions build to the point of needing a second anchor off the bow, my preference is have two separate (different length) rodes in a shallow "V". Of course there is a risk of the two rodes becoming twisted if the wind goes light, but that is a risk worth taking in my view. Cutting the rode(s) loose might be the only option for a quick getaway in strong conditions.
@braithmiller
@braithmiller Жыл бұрын
Running a tandem V of Danforths now for the loss of my main. Generally an irritating setup for anything long term as it will enevitablely twist around.
@lorneserpa5888
@lorneserpa5888 Жыл бұрын
Everything has to be so just right to make them work. I'll never have one on the bow of my boat. I have tidal water, so no resetting would not allow me to sleep at night.
@jimdombroski
@jimdombroski Жыл бұрын
steve id like to see an FX-11 vs a Mantus M1 8lb
@Skousen77
@Skousen77 4 ай бұрын
Anyone who can link to specifications of a "Bulldog 10" light weight anchor?
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