always wear protection when dating armor

ive probably said this before but idk that intro is pretty badass.

Two things to remember though is that an effigy made prior to a persons death may have been made sometime before that persons death, BUT might still reflect the armor worn by that person at the time of death. This would be particularly true if the wearer didn't update his armor from time to time. Also, an effigy made AFTER a persons death might reflect armor the person had ordered, but had never worn at the time of his death, possibly because it had not been delivered.

Note that armor from effigies always split the bill in half and do not tip as it is beneath their lordly station. They may challenge the valet to a duel. This is normal.

Another great video, thank you for your efforts KnightErrant. It really helps me to understand the times a bit more :)

How long did older armor styles last anyways? When did bascinets with aventails go out of fashion and when was the last time you might see them regularly on the battlefield.

Another factor that comes to mind is career paths - I could see someone serving as a knight for part of their life, then after their mid-thirties or so seeking out less physically demanding positions, living on another 20-30 years, during which buying new armour was not a priority for them. So by the time they die their armour could already be a little outdated.

Perhaps that could explain why plate inovations (poleyns, schynbalds etc) sounds so uncommon in 13th and early 14th centuries just before to show out a effigy or two like William Fitzralph? This armour is almost unique by the time he died (1323)

It can even get more comlicated on effigies showing husband and wife. It could have been manufactered when both were still alive, when the first of the couple dies or when the reamaing partner dyed. A very strange example of a civilan effigy showing a couple is e.g. www.frankfurt-guide24.de/sites/default/files/DomMuseum-Frankfurt-Grabplatte.jpg . This piece shows Johann von Holzhausen, the mayor of Frankfurt (died 1393) and his wife Gudela (died 1371) in civilian clothing from around 1360. So the possible span of error ist almost 40 years.

where are you man? I'm waiting for more videos! God bless you!

When you start dating a nice, wholesome mid-14th Century English harness, but you see that curvaceous continental 15th Century Italian harness with fully open visor on the other side of the cathedral... Forgive me Ian, for I have sinned...

For very high status individuals you should be aware of the possibily of exhumation and reinterment by their descendents, some times quite a few decades and sometimes even centiries after the fact.

His arms are bigger each video

I thought you meant armour to go on dates in. Would be fun to do so! :D

I wonder if there could be some extreme cases. Like sombody ordered a monument for himself in his 30s but then lived up to his 60s or even 70s i guess there could be some huge difference.

Were all effigies unique or are there cases where the same armor is shown for more than one person? In other words were there effigies prepared before hand and just the face was added upon order?

Good advice comrade. This tidbit of information would serve the amateur researcher well.

I don't date I just have armor with benefits.

Since you've addressed some myths about armor already, through direct experiment, I'd like to ask if you could make a video on temperature in relation to armor. Specifically, there's some ambiguity as to whether fighting in full armor under the sun in a desert or being near a fireplace can lead to heat stroke or extreme discomfort. What are the effects of sweating a lot in the armor on the wearer and the armor itself? Do you feel there's a possibility that if someone was left unconscious, but not dead, in a field under the sun while wearing it that they could die due to the armor rather than because of injuries or a concussion? Personally, I'd expect that these issues, if they existed, would have been known and addressed but I think there's room for someone that knows what they're doing (aka, _not_ the History Channel) to clarify what happens. I am aware this is likely to be dangerous to you and the armor itself if you were to perform an experiment, so I would not be surprised at all if you don't want to try it, but since you've already worn it and have military experience, I think even a short video where you just talk about it would be a good idea. Thanks, keep it up.

If you could do a brief examination of scale aventails: their pros and cons, evidence for them, etc., it would be amazing. I'm making one for my bascinet and would love any info possible on them. I'm sure your viewers would also be interested, as scale aventails are, bluntly put, hella cool.

Great info. I knew medieval art works depicting earlier events tended to costume the characters in the dress worn when the art was created, but didn't realize effigies don't always accurately represent the armor worn at the time of the subject's death. A real egregious example from effigiesandbrasses.com is the effigy drawing of Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford. "Humph" died in 1322, but the armor represented in the effigy drawing looks more representative of what might have been worn by his son, a later earl of Hereford also named Humphrey, who died in 1361. Some Hollywood costume armorer working on a movie about the Battle of Bannockburn (1314) might not know any better and model the armor on this drawing, when in fact it's more reminiscent of that worn at the Battle of Poitiers.

Hey, Ian, I just had a question that's been gnawing at me: I've been trying to research the Scandinavian knight, as after the Viking period, they don't get much limelight, and as such there is limited information on such armors. What do you know about Scandinavian armors, specifically of late Medieval harnesses?

When using Effigies and Brasses and The Medieval Combat Society websites I'm seeing floating leg/arm protection, and even segmented gauntlets in the 1300s-1320s a lot more than I expected. The analysis of effigies on Talbots Fine Accessories would suggest otherwise. What are your thoughts on this? I am trying to build a lot appropriate for 1314 (battle of Bannockburn). I'm also using lots of manuscript evidence like the Holkham Bible

Hello Knyght Errant, I was wondering if you could answer a question to do with armour? In some of Ireland's churches, the effigies of the 14th/15th centuries show torso armour maid of overlapping plates, one below the other, opposite to a coat of plates, and without a cover of fabric or leather, which is one on top of the other and covered in fabric or leather. I was wondering if you could tell me how you think it was secured, maybe on leather straps, or a fabric backing? Thanks.

Dating armour, with built in bow tie and floral detailing.

Did the effigies always/usually aim to depict people at the time of their death? Could it be (similar to a monument of some sort) they wanted to be shown in their youth, or when they were a part of an important military campaign? In that case, armour could also be out of date, possibly for decades. Or, alternatively, would they post-date the armour (making it contemporary to the time of death, but not to the age of the (younger) person shown), not wanting it to be outdated?

Question for you, what solutions or garments did knights wear to protect their beards from their helmets? Just started fighting in armor with the ACL/IMCF and the helmet chinstrap is wrecking havoc on my beard. As a bearded man who wears armor what do you do to solve this issue?

I'm very interested in armor although I am a novice when it comes to dating it. I've looked at a few books from the library but most of them contradict each other and are full of common misconceptions. Would you recommend any reliable armor books? Thank you -Jacob Cohn

You could say it was a blind date

Unrelated question, but what is the typeface you use for the text in your thumbnails these days?

Can you make a beard tutorial?

Most effigies usually represent the character in their prime so if the work is commisioned a few years earlier than the actual death, it would actually make it more accurate. Right?

Was there that much of a variance in 10-15 years? Wouldn't armor (especially newly manufactured) be useful for several decades even if it might be out of style? I don't claim to be an expert by any means, but I know that a sword could be useful and retained for a century or more. Armor not so much? Just curious.

👍🏻

If I wanted to find what knights from a certain century would actually wear, in terms of clothing and armor (and accessories like belts or straps), where would I go to find this? What I mean is, if I want real history, something genuinely researched and accurate.

YOU CAN'T DATE ARMOR! IT'S NOT A PERSON, DUH!

Are some of the knights buried in there armour? If so... err... well we got a moral dilemma on our hands

So, never trust people in medieval times.

+Knyght Errant kzfaq.info/get/bejne/b56YhdeAr9eziXk.html, around 8:10 - 9:39 of that video we see a effigie, care to evaluate it, because that video has several views