Man I love listening to people who have forgotten more than I will ever learn.....You are a *ucking genious Keep on learning and sharing it makes us all better Thanks Man

Love it. Not enough sound engineers talking about the human factor!

Through all the learning I've done on line arrays, this aspect is one I've never come accross before or even thought about! Thanks for the great video and explaination!

As a relatively new mixing engineer I feel like I hit a gold mine with your channel. Thanks for these Dave!

A great video. It's been thirty years since my speaker building days and thinking about things like this. Brings back fond memories. Thanks.

What a brilliant explanation! Especially why it's so effective from a human listening perspective.

Dave, thanks! very clear and significant explanation. After this video i am going to search for other videos you have done.

If you've got me at an event doing jumping jacks, subtle differences in the vertical dispersion are going to be the least of my concerns. I think it's a scientific fact that high frequencies drop off substantially when drowned out by the sound of your own beating heart. Great demonstration, Dave. I really appreciate you taking the time to make these productions. The core concepts are useful to people at all levels, not just the pro-tour level.

This is hands down the best explanation of the actual, practical difference between line/point source arrays I’ve ever seen (and heard)

Really appreciate this short deep dive!

Thank you for sharing your insights, Dave!

Genius demonstration. So much better than a verbal or text explanation. Much respect ✊

Dave, thanks so much, this is a beautiful explanation of the concepts involved! Great job. On a side note, maybe wear a lapel mic or something when doing videos like this. I had to keep doing extreme toggling of my volume between the noise and the spoken bits. You have some very important things to say here, and they are easy to miss with your voice riding so far below the noise in dB's. Otherwise, this is some serious wisdom you are sharing here. Much appreciation for this and your other videos. I have learned so much over the years from you! Thanks for being able to explain some involved concepts in such a straightforward manner. Looking forward to more.

I'm glad to be here, thank you Dave!

love these little videos Dave good stuff!

Yeah, when I walk a venue with raked seating, it is easy to walk smoothly from one side to the other, but when I go up or down in equal steps, my ear/brain has a rest while moving from step to step. At a concert, once seated, our ears are pretty much vertically stable, but we move our heads horizontally - but I never really thought about that. You are amazing! Ha - once in a venue I sat down with my young adult daughters, and then did my usual visual check of the rigging, speakers etc. I looked back at the girls any they were laughing and then did an imitation of Dad scoping the venue. My wife never minds when I go to have a check of the mix position at interval.

For me, the biggest factor is that in a horizontal plane, all sources arrive almost at the same time in a line array. But in a horizontal array, all sources arrive at different times in a horizontal plane.

Has to be the simplest, clearest well best explained vertical line array theory i've watched/read . Many thanks for that beautifull short informative tube. :)

Surprisingly deep and simple explanation. Great to see spanish and others lenguajes in the subs, much appreciated the effort, thank you Dave.

Very concise and informative video. Thanks Dave!

Brilliant! I've been saying the same thing to people, you can take all the measurements you want and get lots of nice data, but if it sounds bad to your ear, is bad lol.

Thanks for the video, great information as always!

Thanks man! simple demo, made a complex subject easy to understand!

enlightening, thanks for taking the time!

Thanks for sharing the knowledge Dave!

One of the best demos I’ve seen!

Another great experiment Dave.

Great video Dave!

As always- very informative. Always learn something from your vids!

Excellent stuff, Dave, as usual. I have a huge ball-bearing lazy-susan that I use for speaker testing so I don't have to move the mic. Doesn't work well for vertical movement, but it's great for left to right!

Dave you are a legend. I've been to many of the shows you managed the sound for; and they always have the best sound. You should be in a hall of fame somewhere.

killer vid. loved it. loved content!

thanks for taking the time to explain this stuff to us dave :)

Thanks for sharing, Dave! Those old MDR-CD3000s are cool too!

Brilliant video as usual.

I always wondered why they did this. Great explanation.

Great stuff Dave.

Fascinating and thought provoking as usual.

Very nicely presented !

Nothing new to me, but still interesting to see it illustrated so expertly on a small scale. Well done, Dave. And thanks a bunch for taking the time and trouble to make these videos.

Dave, thanks for you videos. So glad I stumbled upon your channel.

Man i love these videos. Rarely u get such an informative lessons

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

Loved this!

Hi Dave. Great work! I’d just like to add a point (pun intended) about listening to multiple overlapping point source speakers with 2 human ears vs a single Omni measurement microphone as you demonstrated and that is there is another HUMAN factor - the ability for our brains to help minimise the phasing we perceive. If you listen to more than one overlapping PS speaker and then walk horizontally through the overlap (phase issue) areas, you can hear the phasing - but its nowhere near as bad a a single microphone “hears” it. If anyone wants to test this then just block one ear and turn your unblocked ear to the speaker system and again walk horizontally through the overlap. You will then hear it more like a microphone does. If you stay stationary in the poor overlap area and listen with both ears you may be surprised at how much the brain compensates for differing high frequency time arrival - assuming no wind is present! This human psychoacoustic effect is just like an optical illusion is to our eyes. What we perceive can be very different from what is actual and its a good reason to not rely on test measurements alone but to actually use what we are gifted with. Looking forward to your next video Dave!

I have issues with the audibility of the commentary, but the principles presented seem pretty solid.This demonstrates WHY my ears prefer coax studio monitors and line array PA systems. Kudos.

Great. Good explanations.

Great and very educative video thank you Dave!

Outstanding video!!!

you are a great teacher 🙏

This is an awesome video!

So much of what we experience as sound is due to our physiology and evolution as a species. What frequencies we are most sensitive to, how we perceive sound versus what sound is actually there, etc. It always kills me how little of any room, we actually hear stereo in. We know that Sound from that other speaker is reaching our ears, but our brain has turned off that second speaker, and we are only hearing the speaker we are closest to. Designing sound systems that best correlate to the ways in which our brains perceive sound, is just as crucial as designing systems that account for our physical attributes. Thanks much for doing this. These little reminders are so helpful in our daily endeavors to create the best sound experiences..

paradigm shift presentation ! #renaissanceman #bravo : learning moment : polarised audio : sunglasses for your ears . . . next level understanding : gracias : hartelijk dank

That was indeed very interesting!

Thanks Dave, I've been saying for YEARS that it's the Human quotient that's most important....

Very interesting demo Dave, thanks for taking the time to set it up and film it. If you had the test mic further back the narrower HF beams would have converged more and made the tonal change with movement less probably.

Amazing ....Thanks Mr. Rat

Hey thanks. So glad the youtube- lords decided I should see this. Have only seen your older content., which has always been exemplary. Thanks for posting. I have great admiration for what you’ve done and how you’ve managed your career. Perhaps everyone starting out in pro pa, at least in our generation, has similar early experience - from cabinet building to recones and service work to rental inventory and live work. I had s midlife career change but am still very interested the technology. Thanks for you content and your products.

Always I learn somthing or some new prospective from your videos keep up the good work LOVE FROM PAKISTAN.

Can confirm, was interesting!

Love this dude

Great video! Good job there!

Thank you so much for the excellent explanation of the human factor in listening and how we react.

this concept seems so obvious and logical to me, but only now that I have heard it explained properly by Dave Rat, thank you so much sir!

Hi Dave have you heard the Kv2 Hd 5.0 point source set up?

THANK YOU

Exactly! that's why no spec sheet, no review, no video, nor seller, will ever be able to replace true listening of the actual device with your actual song.

Thankyou so much for the brilliant explanation God bless ya

Superbly Explained...5stars

Great video!!

Great video.

You could test physical delay by moving those boxes between them on a higher level, This will improve even better the vertical coverage and make those issues less noticeable.

Muy bueno todo dave 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿 muchas gracias por este vídeo

Great! Thank you!

Great video! Loved the explanations and illustrations. Would love to hear your thoughts on smaller setups and this concept - i.e. Fishman SA330x, Bose L1, JBL eon one vs standard pole mounted 2 speaker PA systems.

It finally makes sense why the MTL1X was so awesome and why they coupled so easily. Also makes sense why my old evm cabinets get "muddy" when laid on their side.

Great vid 👌👏👍

Great video! How can I get more info on the SuperSub you build and can I power it with a dedicated K10 or K20?

I forgot to ask, what are your thoughts on the future of live sound, in various time frames perhaps? Should i hold off on a line array investment?

Very interesting. I wonder if you use some type of directly fins or guides in front of the speaker if it would make a difference.

We also have a hard time locating sound directly in front or back of us. Question, I've seen so many large format system that hang two arrays per side either both facing forward or sometimes the outside hang is acting as a side fill, so how much separation or how far off axis before they no longer effect each other?

My gig tonight was at a venue we ALWAYS have sound problems in. Just absolutely trash. But tonight one of my qsc’s died and we only had one speaker. It was by far the BEST we have ever sounded there. Sometimes the fix is so simple.

And then of course you can add small delays from element to element across a vertical array to control dispersion front to back in a venue which is nice. Phased array steering isn't just for radar anymore. The improvement in live sound over the last decade thanks to engineering has been quite impressive. I'll try not to think about the complete absence of concerts these days... darn too late.

Very interesting.

Cool! It's also fortunate that the human factor with line arrays align with the practical issues with respect to line array orientation. It would be much more difficult to fly a line array in the horizontal plane.

Dave, you're on the front page of Hacker News. : )

Dave, I am not a great fan of tattoos, but I love the hinge structures emerging from the inside of your elbows! Cool.

Great video!!! Keep them coming, but more importantly hope you get back to work very soon.

Absolute genius!

What is the 8 channel amplifier you're using?

Cool, that does put it into perspective.

A rather unique type of line array you may want to check out or maybe even build is the Constant Beamwidth Transducer (CBT) Line Array by Don Keele. I attended a demo of his speaker design a few years ago at the Detroit Chapter of the Audio Engineering Society. What makes his design unique is the frequency spectrum is flat across the full range in all directions. The other thing I experienced first hand and measured myself is the dB output is the same level from 6 inches to 80 feet. His design featured a series of 2"-3" full-range speakers (mids to highs) in an arc. He had two of these speakers both left and right with subwoofers on a crossover. He 'feathers' the output of the speakers with resistors so the middle speakers put out full output, but has the speakers go up and down, they are resisted in 3dB steps. So the top and bottom speakers in the array put out less than the middle ones. From a practical standpoint, the sound fills a medium to large size room with no hot spots or harsh frequency nodes. However, the quality of the speakers used in the array is crucial to sound quality. I believe the design does take some tunning with EQ and crossovers for the subs to get a proper balance. As with 2"-3" speakers the mids/highs can get out of hand if not tuned right. His design I believe is best on hard-surfaced floor or upside down from a hard ceiling as I recall it used the floor as a ground plane. www.xlrtechs.com/dbkeele.com/CBT.php There was a company selling a DIY parts kit, but no longer I think. Based on what I heard and how it fills a room so consistently both in frequency and dB SPL, I think the design has applications for mid-sized rooms or even large homes.

This is the missing link to all that I've learned about point vs line source. Human hearing. Thanks for this.

GREAT VIDEO I HAVE A QUESTION? Despite the differences between line array and point source being dispersion or coverage,is there any other difference between line array and point source speakers with reference to the manufacture components eg inbuilt cross over unit,voice coil ?

Subscribed. What happens if you stagger splay them in the vertical?

Very nice

What are your thoughts on the new line array boxes with the LF drivers on the side? Examples of these products I can think of include L-acoustics L2 or D&B SL. Essentially, the drivers are positioned roughly a quarter wave behind the front drivers, and the drivers in front are delayed a little bit. So basically the sound is phased correctly in the front, but completely out of phase in the back. It’s similar to a cardioid sub, but in line array form. I think it’s an interesting concept, and I honestly find it cool. I’ve been in behind few stages with D&B KSL rigs, and it seems impossible how quiet it really is back there.

Very interesting

This is great - so are we saying this type of set up is better than a single source set up? I’m a mobile DJ with a simple sub and top set up - but been eyeing the mobile line arrays for a while… great video and I’m now a follower! Cheers 🍻

great,,!, thankyou