Yes!!! Can this be done as a kit in 6.5 with mini DSP?

I am with you. Every PA array from Bose, etc I have tried (just to see) has really had a garbage image … EXCEPT the electro voice evolve 50. Believe it is because of the face plate they put on it. Have you tried? Curious to hear your thoughts!

excellent episode!

Nice video, funny as well, great!

So, you can use a line array of 4" drivers to get fast base and cross over to a tweeter at 2KHz. If your array is 6 ft. tall, you will get a nice base reinforcement at the resonance freq. of the cabinet.

I kind of like your content, even though I have no idea how I landed here. From what I have seen so far, I like that you're not trying to deliver random "hifi" knowledge, but rather profound low-level acoustic knowledge. I know this is certainly not the intention of the video, but one can mention that with extensive signal processing you can of course tackle the comb filtering. With beamforming and individual control over each driver you can do quite some things. Certainly out of scope for regular home and music listening applications, but I wanted to mention it anyways. ;)

Tolvan Edge is a good software to model diffraction of the drivers.

Am i wrong in thinking that a full line source dont have this issue, as apposed to a partial line source which does.

I used to use a single wireless digital transmitter to multiple receivers to separate tripath amps. Limitless connections without impedance problems. If one MUST use a line source of speakers, nowadays, each separate speaker can have its own dedicated little digital amp chip. Line sources work great for a p.a. but that's about it.

Can you help me? Im looking for full range 12" silver center cone types with an extended high end for guitar. Most all guitar speakers only go to 16khz. If I have to go to a smaller driver 8d like only to go no smaller than 6.5"

Ref boss 802s.You known your stuff obviously but I know the 802 pa version has a hi pass capacitors inside typically 5uf and 10uf poli caps that apparently push the higher sounds to certain drivers.Question.Is this to combat the comb filter effect or have they just got round it by massively eq'ing the tops with the drivers all an a slight curve on the baffle???

I ve been a mastering engineer for 30 years.. so yes I am an audiophile. Unlike at work where it must work and sound good or we don’t use it.. , audio no a days seems to have a lot of hype.. I hate that,, 3 hundred k for a dac ,, really...this guys is speaking the truth,, plain and simple backed up by facts , not snake oil..he will not be trying to sell you 300 , fuses ..lol

Thanks so much for another wonderfully informative video, Danny. Love watching your vids!

You could mount a pitzo or better still a compression (bullet) tweeter at the top.This would help give the 'sparkle' in the audio

Sure appreciate this video, I've wondered about a full range line array for awhile now. And....it looks like I can stop wondering. Thanks! :)

Looks like if you filtered out 3 of the speakers above 2khz or so, it would be the start of a decent speaker?

Thank you for this. So what is needed to get around this? How do Bose, RCF, EV, Turbosound achieve amazing results from their column arrays? I was thinking of building my own, but just now starting to research how to properly do so. I would appreciate a response. Thanks again..

Thanks for all these great videos Danny and Ron but it'd be great to not only talk about what's wrong and what we shouldn't be doing but also teach us how things should be done to get it right.

So does this apply to hypothetical speakers, say a pencildragon?

So coupling occurs at lower frequencies, but phase cancellation at higher frequencies?

Danny, thanks for the video and demonstration do you have any comment on how the CBT's claim to circumvent floor bounce?

So what about your line array of those same drivers you sold?

great topic, and my question is how do pure line array handle phasing issues? by that i mean magneplanar and electrostats which has continuous line of output from a line of membrane. my thinking is that the gap for the tweeter level output has to be small, full range drivers at 4" in size have about 8 inches between the center points.

Proud to own a frugal horn with Alpair 7p!!

Thank you. What i am missing is measurement distance. Combfiltering effect decreases with distance, isn’t iT?

Sir, thanks for the video. Have you ever heard a K-Array? They are very expensive and use 1 inch drivers. From what I know, the smaller the driver, the better the array will work - but there's a trade-off there. Thanks!

All live venues use line array high frequency drivers, seems to work for them...

So would we will do to stop that comb filtering effect?

Whicch is why professional line arrays use time aligment via delay programmed into each speaker amplifier , so that at specific distances all waves are suming in phase !!

Interesting. I've been using the K-Array Python (3"x 8 drivers) and Kayman (4" x 8 drivers) for years and absolutely love them. They're spendy, for sure -- I think Carvin finally did the thing and made a version without bells and whistles since we do most of that stuff on a processor or even in the mixing console these days. I just had a conversation with a friend who mixes FOH for stadium headliners and he brought up pretty much what you're covering here. I don't know how K-Array does it -- the columns (typically two cabinets, so 16 drivers tall) sound amazing although I do often find myself adding some +10Khz "air" to the overall mix. I'd love to hear your take on these....

Using crossovers, would partitioning the frequencies to each driver alleviate the comb filtering in the array?

I’m thinking each speaker added in series takes the top end down partly due to each voice coil acting as an inductor. Kind of like each speaker’s coil is a crossover for the next but since they share the load in series they bring the top end down for all of them.

How much your line array

Another awesome interesting episode Danny. I really look forward to see what you come up with every Tuesday. I have been learning a lot, and been enjoying doing so. Love how you utilize the computer graphics during your talks. See you next week!

Ok i have about 8, 2" full range drivers. Forget the line array, If I wanted to design a pair of desktop pc speakers, and I just want to try to get the best possible sound from them, should i just make the tightest spacing group in a square 2x2 pattern and angle the front baffle at roughly ear level to make the drivers as equally distant from the ears as possible?

DMS , I came across this KZfaqr tonight that is making tower line source out of micca RB-42's.. From what you've taught I'm thinking not gonna work out so well. Said KZfaqr is taking them to RMAF. . As soon as I saw project you came right to mind with your cone filtering explained.... We do learn out here from you guys.. Thank you Ron, Thank you Danny

Great audio myth busting info plus an insight into some manufactures expensive speakers designed & built in scientific defiance - Or designed & built in scientific ignorance of what causes cancellation or comb-filtering - either way, it's one or the other but they sure make them look pretty! P.S. I'd care that any potential speaker purchase has space to fit in my room but looks are my least important need in a potential properly designed speaker (unless it was purposefully made to look bizarre & appears grotesque as a result of that

Thanks, Danny great info. That answers my curiosity about the P.E. line array.. ✌️

5:25 in fact, all is normal and necessary in array application...until 7khz where membrane breakup and phase fuck'up, this system need additionnal tweeters to be a true line source by the way, i'm not prety shure this is good for room/private usage, why making a virtual giant speaker and listening it in nearfield ?

K-array does line array modules with full range drivers for many years now , the sound is mind-blowing , in very compact light and powerful modules !

Why are line arrays the industry standard for large live sound? Im trying to learn everything I can, but there's not much info on live-sound building.

Thanks for the information sir. what about subwoofers? Can those run happily together?

OK, now I am really confused. I commented on the "Why 2 Tweeters won't Work" video by pointing out that some of the best speakers in the world (e.g., Infinity IRS V) have multiple tweeters. The reply I received reads "Line Source is a different animal all together, not the same thing as the examples being given in this video." Now in this video you argue that a line source exhibits all of the same comb filtering problems as a dual tweeter design. Which is it? How would a line array EVER work given what you say here?

Is there any harshness in the upper mid range when using these 5” drivers in a line array? :)

Hi Danny, this is a perfect example of how some companies will do anything to make money from the ignorance of the general public. It makes me so sad to see good people taken advantage of in such a devious manner.. Thanks for your help with this problem! Lary

How about looking at some NXT technology? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_mode_loudspeaker

Did you ever hear the Italian Grandinote speakers by chance at any of these shows? They have a couple of different line array speakers all bolstering about being both crossover and eq-less. www.grandinote.it/mach9%20-%20en.html I never heard them myself, but I have one person who works in the Hifi business doing high quality recordings from shows telling me their Mach-9's were really good. I heard recordings of them, and they for sure did not miss any top end.

how about with some tweets to balance it out

Oh damn, Shots fired at parts-express.

You array sideways lrlrlr

Curved array? Hmmm... all benefits of a line array while also getting rid of comb filtering? Worth trying I guess 🙂

Nice video!

Thanks so much...I can quit dreaming crossover-less line source now!

There’s no expensive lunch!

I've come to realize that there's as much disinformation in the loudspeaker design comunity as there is in the terminal ballistics comunity. How do you explain all the line array speakers sold over the decades to very happy customers? Many who like me, stopped our search for audio nervana when we got our arrays. Some consisting of tweeters only in the array. McIntosh, Wisdom audio, etc etc.

Good job Ron, until you guys get the monitor, that mullet thing will have to do!

Very nice job Danny.

LOVE THESE VIDEOS!

Hi

man I really want to like this Danny guy, but there is just something about him that I really hits me cross ways.

"great big monitor" Any 1080p TV works fine for a monitor. Maybe a 4k would be better.

Two questions 1. What is your favorite speaker for around 4.5k? 2. What is your favorite speaker for around 2.5k?

this is why you cross them over so only 1 driver play above 700hz or so and the rest of the drivers take care of the lower end. Pointless, but people pay for looks..

Just viewed this one again, ... damn, the misguided vitriol is staggering. At least they're watching.

Your experiment is flawed because your line of drivers is too short, unless your intension was to show that these designs do not work. The only thing you have shown is that a four driver line source with fairly high ctc driver spacing works poorly. Why not build a full line floor to ceiling, drivers closer together, properly EQed, measured from listening position. Then tell us how what you think.

Typical recent New Record Day heavy handed video making. There are no absolutes in speaker design. I do not know where Mr Brenay has been for the last few years while his channel has been mostly dormant but this new "I'm the expert. Learn from me." video content is really turning me off. Anyone paying good money through Patreon for this content seriously needs to rethink his/her's support. There are many many ways to create world class sound. There are some truths in this video (and a few of Brenay's other recent videos) but they are mostly presented with final authority and no room for other thoughts. The opinions are are very myopic and single minded. Anybody involved with audio design, especially loudspeaker design, for more than a decade will know that there are no absolutes. Every aspect of speaker design comes with trade offs. Box design/size. No box/open baffle. Driver selection. Crossover components chosen, or build with no crossover at all. The compromises go right down to the wire chosen for the interior of the loudspeaker. It all comes with compromises. Each decision in the design process is both good and bad. Pluses and minuses, positives and negatives. No decision is absolutely right. The "Art" of speaker design comes when a talented person(s) takes a good design then minimizes the negative and maximizes the positive. The world is full of incredible loudspeakers that have been able to create great, world class, sound by taking existing design and making it much more perfect (Bowers and Wilkins comes to mind. Simple but very effective). Other designers have been very successful taking a much more unique and complicated approach in basic design and working through the problems to end up with incredible sound. Magnepan, Tekton and Infinity IRS5 to name a few. These designers have stretched the boundaries of design to create incredible sound. Wanna see (hear) how wrong this guy is about multiple wide range drivers in a line array is? Check out the following video and try really hard to hear a set of these Infinities in person. These will blow your socks off, and yeah they are a series of wide band drivers placed in a row to create a line array. You will forget all about the pablum presented in this current video if you have a chance to listen to these speakers. And at that point you may have enough of an open mind to evaluate all other speakers on the merit of good sound, not on somebody else's opinion of good design. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bKumjbB8uuDdhXk.html The internet has created too many self proclaimed experts. Listen for yourself. Break away from the all knowing self appointed experts. There really is good positive advice on youtube and the internet as a whole, but you have to search and you have to use your ears. I don't think you'll find much of that here.... Peace out.