Hey Dawid! Just so you know the MX master does have the option to turn on clicky scrolling using the Logitech software. You can even tune the clickyness to your liking!

The button behind the wheel on the MXMaster mice changes the scroll mode between free and the normal clicky. The software also has options for auto free scroll with different force levels for the changeover point.

02:21 I have the same mouse, and if you touch the button that's right above, it changes the "flow" of the wheel, making it more like a "traditional" mouse wheel.

i dont get how companies havent started monetizing on this idea more cus i feel like if they make a great gaming vertical mouse its gonna redefine the industry for us gamers

As a vertical mouse user I hace a lot to say about this! First of all, the Lift IS the lighter and smaller version of the MX Vertical, which i have been using for years, better suited for bigger hands. Now with that out of the way, at first you feel inaccurate and slow because you're using a whole different set of muscles in your forearm to move the mouse at a different angle than what you've been doing your whole life, so its only a matter of time and practice to train those muscles up. I've been using mine for gaming always and even though its not the most precise thing in the world, I'm no competitive gamer by any means and it does good enough for my needs. The best part is never having those awful wrist pains ever again! Now one more this is idk about the lift, but I believe i could adjust my DPI using the logitech software, aswell as button shortcuts.

The MX Master 3S does have a notched scroll wheel. Press the small button just behind it! Changes between free mode and notched mode.

I started using the MX vertical about a year ago after I noticed signs of carpal tunnel and haven't looked back since. It's not the most precise to aim with but I haven't had much issue getting used to it and use it for both work and gaming. A fun side effect of using it exclusively has been trying to use a traditional mouse again. Makes you feel like you haven't used a computer before.

I'm so glad you touched on this subject. Having returned to gaming after nearly a 20-year hiatus, I find that my wrist and forearm aren't what they once were in my late 20's. I'm definitely looking into some better options. Thanks, Dawid!

For similar reasons, I switched to a negative tilt ergonomic keyboard. I started on the Microsoft 4000 ergonomic keyboard for general office use. After I got used to it and started to use it for gaming, I found a mechanical keyboard that was **almost** as good layout wise. Saved my wrists for sure.

I’d be interested to see a comparison in an aim labs test that requires larger mouse movements - i.e targets moving 360 degrees around you, instead of ones that are all within a small field of view.

I got carpal tunnel in my early 20s so I got a logitech MX Vertical and it helped a lot with my carpal tunnel. I just frequently wish they had a gaming version as I've found the big issue with it is that it's not "smooth" feeling (i.e. polling rate is too low). This is ONLY a problem in shooters and every other game I use the MX Vertical

A vertical mouse is way better for my wrists than a normal mouse but I always track back to trackballs for everything not gaming related. My first 'mouse' was a Logitech Trackman Marble FX and I am currently using a MX Ergo. I still game with a traditional mouse, except for games like XCOM, Civ or Stellaris. A trackball is also a good access protection. I had a lot of people desperately scrubbing my 'mouse' over the desk. It will take a lot less desk space espacialy with a 80% TKL or smaller keyboard. You may hate the trackball for the first few days but it was worth it for me.

Vertical mice are very comfortable. I would say there is a learning curve with it compared to a traditional mouse, but overall I enjoyed using it.

I've been using the DeLUX vertical mouse (a budget Lift) for work and gaming for a year and it does takes some time to get used to but can definitely be as good and more comfortable than a regular gaming mouse

the scroll wheel can be switched to clicky mode. install logioptions. You can set it to always clicky, or a mode that releases the clicky clutch when you throw a hard scroll.

Always entertaining! Not tech related but, what's the watch I see you wearing all the time? I'm surprised it's not some kind of smartwatch. Cheers

Yeah, having a vertical wrist position does help thats also one of the reasons why i sometimes have an awkward holding of the normal gaming mouse just to make it comfortable for me to hold and play.

what really surprised me a lot was how much dawid lifted his fingers off the mouse's buttons after clicking. mine tend to rest on the button after clicking. man that's some serious movement there :O

@Dawid, Could you do a similar video for a trackball please? In my opinion the inertia of the ball can be useful for gaming, it's also a very precise pointing device.

Hey mate,nice video! I'm curious about which watch you wear,it looks awesome!

Not really focusing on the mouse for now but insofar as using AA or AAA batteries go, I actually find that that's my preference for mice nowadays once you get your hands on a decent set of Eneloop or equivalent-performance rechargeable batteries. Mainly, I'm just glad that I'll be able to keep using the same mouse (I'm rocking a Deathadder v2 x Hyperspeed at the moment) indefinitely given the batteries live up to their ~10 year lifespan each, and take care to keep each in good health.

I got so used to the Logitech thumb trackball mouse that I was just as good (if not a little better) at FPS games with it. Had a lan party with some friends playing CSGO and forgot my 502 at home, but had my trackball in my bag. I was laughed at and mocked initially but that went away pretty quickly once a few rounds were behind us 😂

This was a really cool and interesting video, thank you Dawid. Please keep it up (she said)...! Along this vein, perhaps consider doing a similar video but comparing mouse pads - cloth, glass, metal, etc. And another comparing mouse pad sizes and proportions on mouse feel/game performance. Would make for some neat comparisons methinks!

funny as always👍🤣👍how`s the 64core PC coming along?

I agree! The only thing I don't like is rechargeable batteries in a mouse, because it's amazing to be able to swap a new AA on the fly instead of having to recharge a built-in cell that loses capacity over time. The built-in rechargeable cells aren't hard to replace, but they're not nearly as convenient as swapping in a new AA as needed (you have to take the mouse apart with screws, and hope you don't crack plastic). Use rechargeable AAs if you want to save the environment: just have a few of them ready to swap in as needed. I actually wish every new mouse used AAA cells. That would be the perfect design, in my opinion.

The real (so far) solution to my carpal-death-pain (I am a really bad case) has been to use the logi mx ergo trackball mouse - where you move the cursor with your thumb on a ball. I tried various vertical mice and they didn't really work. I also have to game almost exclusively with a controller (the underside paddles on the xbox elite controller are heavensent as shoulder buttons cause me pain)

I also had some hand issues from gaming/editing I use the MX Vertical for all non-gaming computer use. Definitely easier on the wrist though the switches they use in them are low quality and developed a double click issue in a bit under 2 years of use. And then for gaming I have the Glorious Model D- wireless. I tried a few others and for me a smaller size and lighter was easier on the hands.

So the newer model doesnt have the button above the wheel that turns on and off the click?

IMO vertical mouse is a must have. It feels more natural compared to the regular mouse. Using the Trust Verto I can swing my wrist almost 180 degrees, while if the wrist is horizontal it can move in very limited angle. It is especially usefull when combining monitors in Eyefinity/3D surround setup for 4000+ horizontal pixels- that's a lot of distance for a mouse cursor to pass..

Yes!!! Another vertical mouse convert!! 😄 I’ve been using the Zelotes vertical gaming mouse for the better part of 5 years now and I’ve never ever ever again experienced carpal issues. I picked it at the time because the logi lift was twice the price and I didn’t have that kind of cash to spend. There was a learning curve to it but afterwards I’ll never go back to a normal mouse. The funny thing is that if someone sits down at my PC they have no idea how to use it, like a car thief trying to steal a car but doesn’t know how to drive manual transmission 🙃

Hi Dawid, I am now interested in trying a vertical mouse. Can you also review the MX Vertical mouse and Review it against the MX Lift? Also, the button behind the scroll wheel on the MX Master should toggle clicks on the scroll wheel.

I need to know where you got that flannel.

No joke, my peak performance in FPS games came when I was rocking an old Logitech mouse with a big red trackball in the front. Part of that was definitely because I was younger, but also I felt like I could react faster when just needing to use my fingers to do so. Sometimes odd mice just work with you.

You will never know how i got this many likes

This man is funny AF and good videos as always. Love the content man! Keep it up

Been using an ergonomic mouse for years, so much more comfortable for long term use. Mind I don't do much gaming with FPS more strategy games so suits my choices more. It did take a while to get used to. Would be interesting to see how your get one after several hours of use. But great video

How did you miss the entire clicky wheel thing?

Thank you very much for your output! I myself have been noticining some carpel tunel thingys i my right arm and am gonna try a vetical mouse I bought for my mom, since she now uses a trackball one. I hope my wrist gets better!

i found that angling my mouse pad helped a lot, basically make the mousepad a ramp that is 2 inches high on the left side then your wrist angle more closely matches the angle of the mouse without straining

that button right under the scroll wheel, is the scroll toggle. it makes it click. I only ever set my logitech mice to infinity scroll when I have a giant webpage or document to get to the bottom of. If yours does not click, then its either broken or disabled though software or something

Nice cut Dawid. And Great video as always.

I've been running an MX Master for a very long time, have always preferred bigger mice like the Naga Hex. Basically the only thing you really need is some Teflon skates and it becomes magical. The side scroll wheel is amazing for fettling my aircraft prop pitch, mixture control, flaps, etc in different keyboard combinations when I'm playing flight sims. Would highly recommend it for gaming with that one mod, new mouse feet.

Can confirm the MX Master claims :D Wouldn't trade it for any other mouse however... But that button below the buttons (ergo mouse) is the DPI switch right? Or am I missing the point?

No vertical mouse for me yet, but using a nice solid gel filled wrist rest has helped me SO much. I bet the combination of the two would be amazing.

thank you for this video i didnt even know these existed. my carpal tunnel is so bad it feels like somebody stabbing my bones up and down my whole arm and it goes numb. i ordered one right after the vid ended.

I’ve had a “vertical” ergonomic mouse for a couple years, at first I found it difficult to game with. Actually, I thought it would be impossible. I tended to go up and back at an angle, not straight. But after using it for awhile, it became like any other mouse. I like it, not for gaming though, although you can use it for gaming.

Hmmm, I've tried a vertical mouse before, and it was extremely lightweight and very slippery. It actually made my accuracy go down by over 50% (Especially on small, real world targets and applications) because whenever I wanted to click it, the mouse would slide from the force I'd exert to click. I should note that the mouse in question also didn't allow me to thumb-block very well, so it might've been an issue for that mouse specifically, but it was enough to make me not try another. Especially considering I didn't have a lot to spend back then. It's actually pretty hard to hold your mouse steady during a click when the thing blocking your mouse from moving isn't a sturdy desk, but your own thumb.

What about the lenovo legion go fps mode controller vs mouse?

I currently don and occasionally use a Logitech MX MASTER 2S mouse and it does offer a lot more wrist relief for longer pc sessions for me. I only game generally for a ~4hrs max and notice much more relief on my wrist and forearm with the MX MASTER 2S mouse even when gaming over my Razer Viper and Finalmouse Phantom

Hi Dawid... you do know that you can just buy rechargeable double A batteries right?

I think your preferred grip also matters for this a lot. I always used the claw grip, and when I do that, regardless of my mouse choice, I find myself with my hand at pretty much a 45 degree angle from the desk, even when idling. Add to this an even slightly angled mouse, like any modern gaming mouse is, and I'm completely fine.

I have that MX master and the button behind the middle scroll wheel does make the scroll click.

I just started my journey to finding a good vertical gaming mouse so this was very informative!

This is crazy I was just about to buy a vertical mouse for both gaming and work but I wasn't sure so I held on and then this video is popped up

Can’t wait for dawid to go on his sweaty gamer training arc

Very useful cheers. I've been using a cheap a55 Anker vertical mouse, but have been thinking of upgrading to the Logitech Lift.

Did you take off the mouse plastic?

I bought a random $25 vertical gaming mouse from Amazon about six months ago and I liked it so much I got a second for home. My carpal tunnel pain is gone and the mouse looks weird enough that no one tries to touch it.

I have regular wrist pain as well. I've tried ergonomic mice in the past but most of them are too big for my hand size. Might have to give the Lift a try.

I was thinking about something like you get with the Legion handheld, lol

I would recommend you try the mx vertical as I want to see another vertical mouse review from you

i've been trying to mod a G702 into the shell of an mx vertical but i've been having issues with my 3d prints

I've had a logitech MX Vertical over a year now, and I love it. I use it for gaming and work, and my wrist feels so much better. I let my wife try it out, and she got a smaller vertical mouse for her work computer. So much better in the long run. Now you have me interested in the Superglide pads. Thanks for your fun videos!

I bought a used g903 lightspeed to mod into a vertical mouse... need to start that project

I have wanted a vertical gaming mouse for years now! I love the idea since I got to use vertical mice a lot at home after my dad had to get a wrist surgery from using normal mice for years, and I just love the feel and accuracy of a vertical mouse. One thing my dad also did to further improve his ergonomics in his workplace was to get one lefty and one right-handed vertical mouse and train to use the lefty version, so he can just switch mice and relax the other hand.

I think you can change the scroll wheel from free flowing to clicky, because I have a 502 hero that was clicky then I accidentally made it free flowing and then I accidentally again made it clicky. I dont remember how now.

Okay, but how about trying it with the stationary trackball mice? Would love to see you do some gaming with those.

heyy what's the name of the mouse he uses in the start in 0:14 and the one in the background in 0:20

logitech does make a vertical mouse in the MX line not sure if its really any better though since ive never really used it but it does have a rechargeable battery not sure if the mouse clicks or censor is better it is

I'm curious, are rechargeable AA batteries non-existent in the US? In the EU we can buy them pretty much anywhere making them a much better option than an internal rechargeable battery that is hard or impossible to replace, not to mention those batteries are often not even available to buy separately.

Same I've used Nostromo type keypads for gaming too, can't play without them.

You should try some lightweight options like the Deathadder v3 wireless or "DAv3" for short.

I have arthritis in my dominant hand, the right, and switched to an MX Vertical by Logi several months ago. Yes, it helps enormously with the wrist pain and after a short learning curve my gaming is at the same level it was before.

Very few people can make a sponsor spot that I will willingly watch and actually highly enjoy. Dawid, you are a great comedian. I loved that commercial 😂👍

The ergonomic mouse/mice i use are the Logitech Trackball's with the most ergonomic being the MX Ergo. I would still prefer the M575 over it as i dont like the accidental angle changes i do and it is a much lighter than the MX Ergo. There is also the trackball sensitivity button near the trackball that very often gets hit in a firefight making death inevitable.

I've only tried one ergonomic mouse from Anker and after trying it for a few days I gave up on it because I was actually feeling a lot more pain and fatigue in my arm. Maybe it's the particular shape of the mouse I got that causes me to have to grip it more to have the same amount of control. I might try another one at some point but why bother if a regular mouse isn't bothering me yet.

I tried a few wrist supports...the deltahub carpio and a generitc cheap black one....I found cutting the cheap black one in the middle and filling it with yoga mat material felt the best to use and it also slide around the smoothest...the delta fits snug but isnt helping wit the pins/needles feeling that comes. I use a G502x and would consider to replace it with a like for like vertical version (with the extra functions and buttons) if they made one.

I've been thinking about switching from my razer deathadder v2 to a logitech wireless gaming mouse, anyone got any suggestions? for reference I have large hands and I pretty much use the majority of my palm on the table, and still have my fingers hanging off the top of the mouse. I also prefer high sensitivity and dont move the mouse around that much

I enjoy the thumb rest style of the mx master most of all but they dont have the best responsiveness for gaming (i wouldnt know i use a controller), or so I'm told. I've been considering getting a Corsair Darkcore mouse since it has a similar style. Does anyone use a Darkcore and have any personal ratings or opinions on it?

I ordered a weird thing called carpio 2.0, it's basically a caddie for your wrist so your hand can glide on the mouse pad. Dawid, can you test it? It'll probably take 3 weeks to get to me so I can be disappointed or excited when it arrives.

hey Dawid! You should try the logi mx ergo ;) it's a trackball but it's so confortable! and I'm curious about your feedback

is there a left handed version?

My biggest issue is finding a mouse that even fits my hand. The only one that fits it is the Razer Basilisk any recommendations for similar sized mouses

u know u can press the button on the logitech mx and then its clicky right?

im curious to try that aim labs. i played competition counter strike over a decade ago - how far has my aim fallen o.O

My MX3 Mouse I use for work is not that free flowing with the scroll wheel. It clicks albeit not dramatically but its there. It looks like its adjustable as well. But I couldnt get it low enough to just spin it like the wheel of fortune. Not sure if it matters mine is for MAC or not. (My company only uses Mac)

i have a mx master 3s, the scroll wheel is clicky until you go a certain speed, its really fancy

What if you get get a slanty desk and just never let go of your mouse, or super glue it to your hand?

I'd love to you do this with ergonomic ball mouse.. 👍🏽

I’ve used a vertical mouse for about 2 years now for work. I used it for gaming for a brief period too, but I enjoyed it more for work. But going from my work mouse to my home mouse, it just makes me want my vertical mouse again. I’ll be first in line for a lighter vertical mouse, love em’

Hi Dawid, you should try the Joy Con Mouse Thingy of the Legion Go.

I know mostly nothing about PC, even after gaming for 30 years, I dont understand the tech you're explaining but still its super entertaining and I love binge watching your videos.

I have tried to game on a vertical mouse and failed ... I just can't get used to it, that - when you click, the whole mouse moves with it, since you push into no resistance

Thanks, that was very formative.

On the issues you had with the mouse, did you try the Logitech MX Vertical? It has all the things that this one lacks, has normal mouse buttons, is lighter, better feet, better sensor, recharchable (USB-C + immense usage time). I Have that one and it rips.

Never experienced that, though it looks confi so i am looking forward to getting one in thr future.

does this one also suffer from the terrible switches? if it does the carpal tunnel is a WAY better alternative than having to deal with double clicking and crap responsiveness

My workplace gave us the option of having a Lift over a regular mouse, and I decided to take a chance on it. I really like it! It is kind of tall though, and I have knocked it over a few times.

Nice trouser tightening results

I also have an Mx master 3s and I use it for gaming. I really like how easy and simple it is to use.