Brood war has so little quality of life features you cant help yourself but be impressed by the skills of the top players

Just play the N64 version to really test your resiliency.

Part 2: Why You Should Watch Pro Brood War Matches After Trying To Play Brood War. It's so satisfying to watch high-level gameplay after knowing how difficult it is to do anything in this game.

I havent played starcraft in years, but I could listen to Day9 talk about starcraft all day, every day. His knowledge, passion and willingness to teach is inspiring.

3:09 "Why would you play this game?" (Terran Theme 1 starts up) "Oh yeah, that's why you play this game"

3:45 OMG THAT BARRACKS TIMING... and the music matching up too *chef kiss*

That barracks timing was tasty 😂

To quote a Jewish grasshopper (deep joke right there) “Flash was not the best because he did everything the best… He did… but the real thing that set him apart was his ability to know when to stop giving attention to something and go do something else”

I resonate so hard with this. I only watched BW as a kid and I only really started with SC2. After being hardstuck master 1 player for years (5.2k peak in lotv), and kinda getting bored of the game and started BW when flash guides came out, and boy oh boy, you hit nail in the head with my horrifying experience. I really enjoy how the game plays out and how it mixed both slow and fast pace nature of the game, with there not being instant game ending damage/engage in span of split seconds, but man, if I did not have any RTS background, I would have struggled a lot. Doing a lot of basic things such as macroing takes 100-150APM minimum, while you could easily do stuff you needed to do with 1/2 of even 1/3 of that APM in SC2. Optimized macro cycle in sc2 with supply depos take around 60-80ish APM to execute with rest going into micro, but in BW, it seems to take 150+ on that alone. After managing all the chores, you still have to spend tons of APM on units to get them to maximum potential or they fight at like 40% of their capability, so it's a lot of things to ask. Stuff like tank vs dragoon, tank straight up loses to dragoon 1v1 if unmicrod and looking away, but can deal with 2-3 goons if properly microd early game is so impactful. Although I enjoy BW a lot more than SC2 now, I would not have enjoyed it at all if I at least didn't have mid-high master tier mechanics at least in sc2. New player and BW do not mix.

"If you're not used to it, it will make you want to fucking die" I have *NEVER* seen someone describe SC1 so succinctly 😂😂

I’ll be honest, learning brood war and then returning to StarCraft 2 was like taking weights off when sprinting

brood war team games and money maps are super fun if you don’t wanna 1v1 but still want these satisfying mechanics Ignore the people yelling at you in 4 languages and just do your best lmao

As someone who's played and followed Melee, all I can say is that I get it.

I'm not good enough to get this pleasant feeling while playing RTS games, but I used to play piano, so I totally get what it's like, because you get this feeling as well, when you play a piece you know really well.

One thing I've founded, as I revisit a lot of old childhood games and find new ones, is that if I played it or a similar style back then, that it will not bother me at all. If it's new to me, even if I played lots of games from the same time period, it will be absolutely insufferable

Glad to see you talking about starcraft again. Thank you so much for years ago when you did the Day9daily; not only was the information invaluable, but having someone that was consistent as a kid, in times of chaos, was much needed. I appreciate what you do so much!

As someone who has being playing RTS games since i could hold on to a mouse and a keyboard, I still struggle a lot with Brood War. It's a beast of its own and even doing the most basic shit requires so much expertise. No matter how good you think you might be at RTS , Brood War will humble you....

This is why the game is so legendary. STARCRAFT, AND STARCRAFT:BROOD WAR FOREVER. EN TARO TASSADAR!

What the actual hell... Day9 posting BW videos again? Needed to double check. What a great time to be alive!

I will ALWAYS appreciate the teaching ways of day9. I wish I had Teachers like this is highschool who were on point with communications skills like him.

Why do I love it so much when Day talks about Broodwar?

I could listen to Day 9 talk about Starcraft for 10 hours straight. It's so satisfying he's such a good teacher.

Brood War also has the dubious honour of having the scout in the game

Getting in that flow state is an awesome feeling! Especially with something that's quite complicated.

Day9 posting about brood war.. I love it. I could listen to you talk about brood war all day. I find the lack of quality of life mechanics in brood war to be the exact reason it’s a great game. I’ve never been able to enjoy new RTS because they’re too “easy”.

Day9 confirming this game is the greatest game ever made.

I think the control limitations work in favor of game's balancing to a great deal. You can never send your entire army with a single click to a location as a death ball, you have to manage your units in smaller groups which incentivizes skirmishes spread around the map instead of one giant anticlimactic battle in the middle.

WOW!!! You just cleared up YEARS of confusion for me. I have watched you play, along with others, and I could NEVER understand all back and forth on the screen. (Never played, and watching a top player with no context was really messing with my head.)

Yes this perfectly describes why I loved playing this game. Once I figured out how to control the units well enough, playing the game became more second nature and it was so enjoyable

I think you really hit the proverbial nail on the head with the rhythm comparison. I do latin social dancing a lot, and the reason it feels good is exactly how you described getting in the sync with the game (in dancing it's not just about the base rhythm like 1-2-3-4, but when you catch specific accents in the song to translate into movements... soo satisfying)

The music of sc broodwar is permanently burned into my mind

OSRS has a very similar "systems-level vibe" with its high level gameplay for practically identical reasons. Something lost through quality of life improvements is "jank", and often times that jank is adding complexity to the game that feels good for players to master. Actually, the clicking of the barracks is identical to the gear switching mechanics in OSRS. You can't just swap out entire sets at once, you have to click 6+ different pieces of gear to swap them, and the game updates every 0.6 seconds, so high performing players will practice a "one tick switch", the ability to have all of your gear swapped within one 0.6 second update cycle or game tick. Identical mouse movement techniques, zig-zag patterns, fast clicks where accuracy is super important. And these kinds of systems really do make the game feel better when you're playing at a high level. I can totally see a Brood War veteran switching to SC2 and feeling like half of the game is lost as it's effectively playing itself. A lot of the APM skill tech is automated, and a huge branch of what makes a good starcraft player just gets deleted for the sake of quality of life. Great for new players, or players with more modern sensibilities, but undoubtably rough on the players who dedicated themselves to mastering jank.

Brood war is the just best esport.

The unit pathfinding made me think about Day 9's Let's Learn Starcraft video of Best vs Light when Best made a massive attack sending all of his zealots across a relatively narrow bridge on Fighting Spirit. It was just SO IMPRESSIVE just to see him do something like moving a mass of units down a narrow choke. Because if he mismicro'd at all, they'd get stuck at the bridge and all of shit would die from siege tanks.

I never thought of it as rhythm like that, amazing.

Love you Day9 started starcraft broodwar back 12 years ago now in 2012 from a classmate and dear friends suggestion.

Selection of 12 units at once was quite an improvement in 1997. In warcraft 2 you could only select 9. Command & Conquer had no limit though.

Play 1v1 ladder on Broodwar and then you'll enjoy watching ASL for years to come! LOL

If you wanna watch pro games, sc1 is probably more exciting, though

Woah... I haven't seen Day9 in ages. Seeing him getting old gives me perspective about myself.

day9 was always so knowledgeable about starcraft, refreshing to see. Missed day9+starcraft

LEG ENHANCEMENTS VS CHARGE

Brood War music is on another level. This terran theme hit me RIGHT in the feels

Day9 is THE best person to talk about RTS ever, I have improved so much on all the RTS I played after watching some of his videos about broodwar, even though I never played SC in my life 😂

I’m gonna like and comment now for the algo and come back later, day9 is a goldmine for broodwar likers such as myself

This video is explains it so well why I like brood war/starcraft 1 of StarCraft 2.

@Day9 did you mean to make your countdown of 3-2-1 as clean as possible to the beat drop at 3:45 as possible? That timing was impeccable.

you need to approach playing games like playing musical instruments. You add and learn the correct (and optimized) gestures for every action u need to do in the game, and build your muscle memory like this. Recommend Hawk's F to S, pretty nice series

What i loved in SCBW was that attention thing, but what you didn't mention is how its a part of decision making on what you give your attention for. You have 2 vultures running around zerglings killing them. Is it better to focus on that or make sure your macro doesnt slip? During combat is it better to focus your marines spreading around not getting murdered by lurkers or is it better to focus on science vessels so they get their key spells and escape from scourges? You can either do both poorly or choose one thing and do it excellently. Even the best cant do both without missing a beat but it looks like that as their decision making is so good. Especially on the older days we used to have macro players such as oov and microplayers such as boxer. These days everyone is a bit macro heavy.

Never thought of an RTS giving rhythm games feels, makes sense though!

My absolute favorite thing used to be watching Flash play FPV

The question I'm more interested in is if the new generations of RTS games will be able to find ways to generate the same kind of satisfaction from hard earned skills without having them emerge from incredibly obnoxious lack of QoL features, or worse, mundane busy work added purely to make it more difficult.

My solution to the pathing was having each unit follow the one in front of it and daisy chaining them all together, that's also how I got around small control groups xD

I did not watch Day9 for 10 years and now he's suddenly 10 years older omg

Something that has helped me in broodwar and sc2 is a new mouse. I got a mouse with 12 customizable side buttons. One row I made into F2, F3, F4 for easy access to my camera hotkeys. Another row is 7,8,9, and 0. This is the biggest quality of life. Not only does it let me access control groups on the other side of keyboard with my thumb, but I also use it as an organization tool. I'll used the numbers on my keyboard for general army control groups, while using the ones on my mouse for special ones such as seige tanks/lurkers that I need to constantly redeploy, muta harassment groups that I want to mirco separately from the rest of my army, spellcasters, comsat stations. Basically anything that doesn't just use an A move

I wonder if Day9 will do SC content with his brother and Artosis? That would be amazing

Hugo Martin talked about how the design of Doom and Doom Eternal were built not around the avoidance of pain and frustration, but around level of engagement. Starcraft Broodwar demands constant engagement, which is probably why it's so infuriating but addictive.

Attention as a resource is critical to all games, but it is exemplified here. Brood War could be the greatest example of ways in which games utilize attention as a resource, or better yet serve as an example as to how other games could prioritize attention as a resource.

When your worker gets stuck on other workers when issued a build command is the worst, the turret timing when mutas coming on particular

If nothing else you should play it for the banger sound track

Long live day9! LONG LIVE THE STARCRAFT KING! I actually prefer the pathing in brood war over sc2. It's annoying but it's better than death ball. More strategic. Like you said....once you learn how to do everything and you start flying through the various macros needed to pump out troops/econ/move army its so fun.

also keep in mind that is actually good pathfinding. it gets SO MUCH WORSE with protoss units or larger units. they will go fuckin nuts walking everywhere even running around your base trying to find ways to get down the ramp lol. i think there's an example of this in his Lets Learn Starcraft series with zealots. they go on journeys, man.

Also those many obnoxious things increase the skill gap - you have more opportunities what to do better than your opponent, giving you leverage over them.

Ill never get tired of hearing Day9 explain things.

Just watch ASL season 17 of yesterday, round of 4. Snow vs Soulkey. Game 3. This is art.

This is nearly the perfect game. The only thing that irritates is Dragoon pathing , it's actually so funny

God I hope Day9 comes back to StarCraft again one day. Miss those good old Funday Mondays. 😢

Yeah its fun once you get into a groove with the timings, but the game also just really satisfying to play and hear.. the music is GOAT, every unit voice sounds really cool and unique, every death sound is cool, combat sounds/animations... I know the old game was 480p but it was still really satisfying to play up until remastered came out.

This is not enough Brood War content... I need more 1 hour ramble videos!

2:07 holy shit that was so fast

I prefer BroodWar because it presents more realistic challenge for management. The more buildings and units you have, the harder to manage. Thus every player has different sweet spot for their balance between micro and macro with their (ridiculously high) limited actions per minute, introducing to playstyle differences.

This is such a great explanation of why older games were great. They had many limitations or even "bad" features by today's standards, but the feeling of beating them, and then falling into those rhythms naturally, to the point the limitations no longer effect you FELT GOOD. Things were only as bad as the solution you could find for them, and that ability separated players skill level. Once you were firing on all cylinders, it feels like driving an old classic sports car.

RTSs have improved quite a lot from when I started playing as a kid. Old Battle Realms, Command and Conquer, and Starcraft are frustrating to play when you've gotten used to the level of control you get in newer games.

the only thing that kept me from playing sc1 for real was the wayfinding and units don't move out of the way for other units.... it will sure make you rip your hair out how horrendous this feels while playing it's a nightmare, not too mention ofc, the 12 units at once limit

Thanks , you just convinced me to buy it all over again and replay all the campaigns. The nostalgic bug has hit hard.

I’m a simple gamer, I see that a new Day9 video, I see that it’s a StarCraft video. I watch and like Man brings back memories of me watching the Dailys to learn the game and beat my friends and brother 😂

1:10 starcraft 2 is the only game where you can select multiple buildings with one hotkey

Has Day9 been off the grid for a while or did I just find him again? He’s THE most entertaining Esports personality imo.

The killer music in the background from the game itself helps too

I love the DDR reference. 2 of my favorite games in one video! (I may not have p90x like Day9, but I lose my weight with DDR :p )

Good to see you playing sc

I’ve personally tried to get into brood war lately, but I end up doing more SC 2 games because the QoL is way better. Mainly the buildings and control groups. Also the production automatic gathering. It’s quite hard to get yourself to do all that clicking fast enough in comparison. I don’t even switch screens in SC2 while doing all my base adjustments. In BW I just get lost everywhere in the screen. Also apparently cuz I try to play offline, I often trigger a weird thing where the games get the screen tinted on darker colors until you can’t play anymore

If SC1 had UI update for modern gaming it would be so much more popular

Day9 might've just explained why my favorite games are rhythm games like Osu, DDR, and Guitar Hero, but the games I've put the most hours into are WC2, WC3, SC1, and SC2.

you are good, I missed you

Any chance we will get TvZ star craft 2 replays? Favorite match up to see

Play brood war so you can get crushed by Nyoken in a casual game circa 2004

Thanks for explaining why I should not play this game. It used to be my favorite childhood game, but the controls are just so outdated that I don't even bother trying it anymore. Still fun to watch tho.

The rhythm part reminds me of why I like hunter in classic wow. Only class that I think have a rhythm to it with both timing autos and moving and also timing the rotation with autos and moving. And if you are really good you can also start melee weaveing into that. Just like Brood War, Hunter feels very clunky when you are not used to it but when you learn the rhythm it feels very good.

"Notice how I am not spamming the button" Artosis has left the chat.

I've not followed competitive SC BW at all, but with the few games that you covered showing the APM is typically 400+ is all I need to know, especially that ZvZ matchup you showed How tf are humans capable of that, it's not like input spam that SC2 typically has, it's actually affecting the outcome with most of those actions

Yeah but if you get used to sc1 you can play afterwards every rts you want. Starting from the most difficult one gonna help someone develop essential rts skills like macro micro apm etc

The music is sooo good in this game, damn

I played this since 99. I've played every official campaign, including the demo campaign no one remembers. And yeah, the micro of BW players is insane by default. When I was half decent I played with a micro on par with other game's pros, but barely touched the bar by SC standards. And the pathing and control groups are miles above WarCraft 2, and Warcraft 1 is unplayable.

SC2 has all the QoL stuff that Brood War lacked that acted as a barrier to entry. the Skill Floor was so high. and while all of what Day9 said is true, you could also use Brood War as a reliable test to see if someone has Stockholm Syndrome.

Bonus points for doing the video on LT

In broodwar attention and micro is the main resource. Minerals and gas are just secondary. A low econ rush or timing attack will win most games if microed with enough skill. I wish I kept at it. Haven't played bw in about 12 years so I pretty much lost ALL rhythm. I might try a few bot games just because I got the itch now haha! And although games are much slower to get going, when you realize how hard it is to do you really appreciate pro BW games. The skill those guys have to slip their attention perfectly is mind blowing.

I love the story, the factions, all of it. But its the mechanics that make BW great. Its why matches are so damn interesting and why the startegies evolve so much.

Can we have a day9 daily rant playlist? A day9 rant a day makes the doctor go away......

THANK YOU!!!!!! There are so many people who were kids when BW dropped that refuse to accept that SC2 is substantially better in terms of of gameplay experience. People nowadays want units to go where they are told to go. Having to click the bottom of a ramp 40191993847 times to get 12 dragoons to finally walk down it doesn’t make the game “better because it’s harder.” It makes the game annoying.