DBG: Why A Canted Valve Head Is Better Than An Inline Valve Head, Effects Of Valve Rotation And RPM

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DragBoss Garage

DragBoss Garage

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Anthony Iacovino, for asking this question. This another video for my playlist, Cylinder Head Flow And Dynamics, which I am adding too daily. Darin discusses the advantages of canted valve cylinder heads. The effects of valve rotation and rpm. Great information to learn, in a quick, and easy video. Thanks Darin Morgan
Always seeing and learning something new at DragBoss Garage

Пікірлер: 83
@johnelliott7375
@johnelliott7375 Жыл бұрын
I love that look on the Drag Boss's face when he says the Cleveland does it all better.
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Right on
@nhra7110
@nhra7110 Жыл бұрын
Could listen to the guru all day long!!
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Way more in store, let me tell you 426
@mattmorrison6958
@mattmorrison6958 3 ай бұрын
So SO good. Darin is one of those people you know will have incredible insights in any conversation around his passion. And in a completely digestible way of conveying complex and never talked about areas/subjects. Gold
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland 3 ай бұрын
Pure Gold for sure. You are exactly right. He can explain head flow like no other. Very passionate. Thanks Matt. I was chatting with him the other day, he is working on something to present.
@ElvinLeadfoot
@ElvinLeadfoot 2 ай бұрын
Tim - The Coyote type heads. Terminology (Polyquad) Meaning Two different sized intake and exhaust valves. Creating more swirl:) Four valve heads typically tumble the air into the cylinder. So you have two different sized intake and exhaust valve to promote and create swirl. Swirl is where you get your low end torque. So with a four valve head you get (Twirl) Polyquad design modifications. David Vizard Channel - Polyquad Heads
@stevewelborn8744
@stevewelborn8744 7 ай бұрын
The information available on your channel is plentiful.
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland 7 ай бұрын
Thanks Steve, trying to provide lots of choices, glad you appreciate it my friend
@terrygrover6440
@terrygrover6440 Жыл бұрын
if you ever want to learn anything about how to make power just put on drag boss garage the best thing on KZfaq always the best stuff tim and the best people and that's the truth
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Thanks Terry, I am not a head porter like you, but have a good understanding on flow dynamics. I try my best. I treat you guys, like friends, not subscribers
@terrygrover6440
@terrygrover6440 Жыл бұрын
@DragBoss351Cleveland yes you do tim and I consider you a friend as well
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Thank you my friend, grateful for what I have, bless you and your family 🙏
@ericsmcmahan
@ericsmcmahan Жыл бұрын
Tim Halstead. This was an awesome video. I learned some stuff.
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Quick and easy, always seeing and learning something new at DragBoss Garage. Thanks Eric
@Bbbbad724
@Bbbbad724 Жыл бұрын
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I have said for years and have been kicked off of every FE forum for saying that the Cleveland head to fit beefed up FE blocks is the Cleveland head. I wrote back and forth with Darin, and a few emails back and forth gave me a great amount of the way air moves. I tried to move this forward with people on FE forums and I got excommunicated. Darin Morgan’s design is it. And I would be happy with just a 4.63 bore spacing Cleveland. To go Pro Stock is not even needed. But he has the ultimate!
@stevenrumsey2534
@stevenrumsey2534 Жыл бұрын
Darin is a cylinder head and intake guru one of my absolute favorite videos so much info I had never heard kinda blows me away I watch and pay attention to this stuff and he said things I had never heard awesome. Keep it up you are killing it dude.
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Thanks Steven, he is definitely one that gets it and does it. Making his live chats shorter versions. Many can’t listen to 3 hrs of chat, so make it more digestible, on my cylinder head playlist. Not sure if I am killing it, trying to succeed in the what seems like millions of channels. Unique info and vids. Thanks man
@Moparmaga-1
@Moparmaga-1 6 ай бұрын
Dang, this is some of the most interesting stuff I've ever heard.
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland 6 ай бұрын
Gives you a whole better understanding of
@MsKatjie
@MsKatjie Жыл бұрын
Sorry to interrupt, men. Just watched the show from 2/18/23 and , me was very impressed, for the little that is worth. However, DragBoss, you have made the Clevland come to controlled flame front life and Thankyou . Cheers. As have all the new heads that have been cast. Why, canted is best and hence, 335' s rule!
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
No interruptions, all good mate. Just trying to keep the cleveland Alive. Canted is cool. Thanks mate
@4-gear
@4-gear 2 ай бұрын
Another great informational video Tim!
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland 2 ай бұрын
Thanks again!
@billfioretti3013
@billfioretti3013 Жыл бұрын
Darin does a fine job explaining why the Ford Cleveland-style canted valve arrangement is the standard by which every domestic center cam pushrod engine on gasoline must be judged. No brag. Just fact. SWEET!
@58sportsuburban
@58sportsuburban Жыл бұрын
Big block Chevy…
@billfioretti3013
@billfioretti3013 Жыл бұрын
@@58sportsuburban Not the same. Distinct differences. Valve placement, clocking and angles. Not to mention the Cleveland advantage mimicked by many aftermarket and race Big-block Chevrolets in the current era. Shallow combustion chambers and symmetric port layouts.
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
It sure is Bill. See below
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Remember the cleveland head is not a copy of the BBC, if you think it is your sadly mistaken.
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
That is the key. You hit the mail on the head. Asymmetric v symmetrical. That’s it in a nut shell
@Dantheman1919
@Dantheman1919 Жыл бұрын
Hey Tim, I think it’s time for another Darren Morgan episode
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Yes just talked to him and will be next couple of weeks. Great idea ☺️💯
@jimkillen1065
@jimkillen1065 Жыл бұрын
I always appreciate your videos, these technical discussions are very useful..thank you very much..i watched the videos more than once to be sure to get all of this information
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Thanks Jim, just put them on loop, and let them go, lol. Started a new playlist on cylinder head flow and dynamics, stay tuned for that list to get populated
@jimkillen1065
@jimkillen1065 Жыл бұрын
@@DragBoss351Cleveland great . I remember hearing a while back how as the valves get rotated more and more from the wedge motor the rpms go up. I was wondering how much of this was know back when Glidden was winning races . Apparently there was some of this know way back when .. thanks again
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Yes he may have gotten this. His engines were running over 10k. I would not have put it past him. 🏁
@jimkillen1065
@jimkillen1065 Жыл бұрын
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I had head that also ..I know your busy, he made more hp the rpms seemed to make a difference at end of the track. I don't know if he ran a vacuum pump or dry sump .. Bob had figured out what it took to make the engine live at that rpm for the quarter mile . Thanks for the videos
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
@@jimkillen1065 Yes his motors like most Clevelands, pick up on the second half. Yes he ran dry sump engines Your most welcome my friend, thanks Jim
@rotorr22
@rotorr22 Жыл бұрын
So the NHRA knew the rules change would make the class a GM only deal. Shocking.
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Funny how biased they were
@johnelliott7375
@johnelliott7375 Жыл бұрын
​@@DragBoss351Cleveland we knew it would be that way after it was introduced.
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
@@johnelliott7375 right on
@treyrags
@treyrags Жыл бұрын
Think of the thousands of tests done to learn this.
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Thousands of tests and hours Rags
@markcrockford9679
@markcrockford9679 Жыл бұрын
kaase and Ardeama and Braun do some interesting stuff with the valve positioning on Kaasesengine masters y block and Aerdema and Brauns model A motor
@johnelliott7375
@johnelliott7375 Жыл бұрын
It is going to be talked about now and I am looking forward to seeing and hearing/everything about it.
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Always learning something new at DragBoss Garage John
@ElvinLeadfoot
@ElvinLeadfoot 2 ай бұрын
Twirl = A mixture of tumble and swirl
@chadkent1241
@chadkent1241 Жыл бұрын
There's a reason the Cleveland was the most handicapped engine in PS..... Canted valves, baby!!
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
That’s what I’m talking about Chad
@1bad505
@1bad505 Жыл бұрын
Allways impressed with Darin's theory on valve rotation. I have not heard him refer to this as a "stagger valve" configuration which surprises me. The Yates head was a stagger valve configuration and yet the valves were not canted. I'd love to hear Darin speak to a relationship between valve angle and intake roof height. Also intake port stall condition on the bench. Keep it coming Tim !
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Thanks Bad 50, he makes it easy to understand, tough concepts. He will be back for a live chat in a few weeks and has a topic picked out. Would not give me any details so it will surprise me too. Make sure your there and ask him. I may forget with all that is going on. Stay tuned as more info on the way
@rolandtamaccio3285
@rolandtamaccio3285 Жыл бұрын
Darin, has those fingers in invisible valve guides .
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
They are and the clearance is perfect 👍
@rolandtamaccio3285
@rolandtamaccio3285 Жыл бұрын
When the changeover to 10,500 revs occurred I didn't know how much the Hemis were over reving . Noble did because he raced them . McGehea did because he dynoed them .
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
It’s stuff like this let’s gives you the inside scoop of why things happen. Thanks Roland
@hbarends5483
@hbarends5483 Жыл бұрын
Thanks to Richard Keinath for putting the canted valve cylinder head to the forefront of performance!
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Was he the one that designed the mopar head? H
@hbarends5483
@hbarends5483 Жыл бұрын
@@DragBoss351Cleveland He was the one who designed the Big block Chevrolet . It was intended for nascar at the time .Also known as the mystery motor. Not saying that the design wasn't improved upon over time. I would say in my opinion that it was the first performance use of the design!
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
@@hbarends5483 ok. Please don’t say the cleveland head is a copy of the BBC head. Further from the truth. Molar was the first I think but nothing came of it.
@hbarends5483
@hbarends5483 Жыл бұрын
@@DragBoss351Cleveland no I wouldn't say the Cleveland head was a copy. Ford rotated the valves more and had a smaller combustion chamber plus symmetrical intake ports. Mopar had the 318 poly sphere engine. It had canted valves but I don't believe with a shaft mounted rocker set up you could rotate the valves and it wasn't really a high performance oriented engine!
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
You get it, thanks. Similar but not a copy. Did not think much became of the pent star
@johnnyhonda7576
@johnnyhonda7576 Жыл бұрын
Talk about Volumetric efficiency and thermal efficiency and calculating
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
I will what I can find Johnny, Darin will be back in a couple of weeks he told me. Stay tuned
@terryenyart5838
@terryenyart5838 Жыл бұрын
Unfortunately not every engine hS the benefit of canted valve heads. No doubt they are better. Just moving the valves in a wedge head is beneficial. Great video
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Yes your right. i made that as I am Cleveland guy, so wanted to be able to explain more, not just unshrouding the valves. thanks Terry
@blindabinda1234
@blindabinda1234 9 ай бұрын
Where is there a link to his channel? Great content from you both.
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland 9 ай бұрын
Thanks so much so much more to see and hear. Here it the link youtube.com/@DragBoss351Cleveland?si=ZvmBsDlSJ5XcDGQn
@DaveMcLain
@DaveMcLain Жыл бұрын
Very good video thank you for sharing. Just looking at the idea of valve rotation it makes it seem like a Harley motorcycle engine would be sort of the worst combination. An engine that doesn't like a lot of RPM with a cylinder head that's very heavily rotated. Would it have been much better served with more of a canted valve layout?
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Hey Dave good to see your here. I don’t know much about their heads, but I know Darin has ported and worked a few over. At the end of video a guy was telling Darin his Harley head he did was working great
@Bbbbad724
@Bbbbad724 Жыл бұрын
I can’t figure out why they built a strong but relatively light design like the FE that can go to 496 ci engine without doing a Cleveland style head for them. I wish they just could have done a 4.63 bore center Cleveland style head. There are good wedge heads they make, I used to ask this on the FE Forums and I would get ripped to pieces. I even helped with a good wedge head one of the best FE heads that were released. Got the chambers to rotate and generate great velocity ( anomously) but I had moved the intake closer to where the SSR was and moved it toward the entrance and had to use a longer rocker on the exhaust and my foundry backed out, and it was basically borrowed and made into a Chinese knockoff of a crummy wedge. I want a Cleveland or a Mixed up Boss like Andy’s. A 4.63 bore spacing for a 4.125 x4.125 441 ci Cleveland/FE. Any ideas? A 420 cfm intake and a 280 cfm exhaust? C’mon
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Who knows what Ford thought or why they did what they did. I would what they had worked well and won races so don’t mess with success. Talk to jay brown about his heads.
@MP-pz9oe
@MP-pz9oe Жыл бұрын
The LS design seems to contadict this concept.
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
In what way?
@MP-pz9oe
@MP-pz9oe Жыл бұрын
@@DragBoss351Cleveland ask the LS 7 guys
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
Don’t know any
@billfioretti3013
@billfioretti3013 Жыл бұрын
@@DragBoss351Cleveland 🤣
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
☺️
@markcrockford9679
@markcrockford9679 Жыл бұрын
It would be a straighter shot at the valve through the manifold wouldn't it
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland Жыл бұрын
That may be contributing to the increased rpm
@cdburlock
@cdburlock 25 күн бұрын
I heard the guest say ... When the rpms dropped from 10.5k to 9600 the horsepower increased. Didn't he mean torque ?
@DragBoss351Cleveland
@DragBoss351Cleveland 24 күн бұрын
If he said hp it is hp.
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