Really feeling that renewed focus on PvP.

I am in the same boat as Watts. I leveled up my characters and since pvp sucks I will be back when lightfall hits. Also, the lag in IB was horrible

Watts said it best. I only do pve activities to get gear for crucible. When crucible sucks what's the point.

The past couple of weeks were not fun without my weekly dose of DCP

Only Myelin would complain about being able to finally pet the dog in D2 XD

It’s always funny how Briar is quiet the whole time until the end with twitter questions

Watts is going through the briar transformation of not caring about the game anymore from when the seasonal model was released and he lost interest in playing the game 😂

Welcome back guys…I miss when PvP was the backbone of Destiny😔

I'm with watts here. The state of PvP now has gotten pretty bad and it feels like bungie is ignoring the people that care most about PvP in order to cater the mode to people who will never actually play it consistently. I'm also going to probably take a step back from PvP and honestly destiny as a whole. I'll continue to do raids and dungeons from time to time but I really have no incentive to grind out a godroll of a weapon anymore. What's the point if I can't even have fun with that weapons due to SBMM being so strict that I'm essentially forced into using meta and praying that the connections hold up enough for my shots to register before getting hit with 700000 storm grenades that chase me around the map. The meta and insistence of SBMM in "casual fun" modes just doesn't feel right.

I started playing over this thanksgiving as f2p on ps5. Can confirm I don’t really notice or care about sbmm. What i do notice is every game feels the same. Every single crucible match. I remember D1 having some big open maps, vehicles, & sparrows. But in d2 everything is corridorized sweaty high movement run & gun mayhem. It’s fun but gets same-y.

SO glad to see everyone back!

I just put this video on pause to watch the Fallout IB Experience video and there's just no words. Completely unacceptable... And that's from someone who has a healthy dose of tolerance for jank.

I simply didn’t play. I agree with Myelin. Apathy is the ultimate weapon for change. I didn’t participate in throwing for that exact reason. A boycott isn’t a boycott if you’re playing the game.

The only things that makes pvp a problem for me are *Poor internet connections *Poor map design *Ability spam

20:00 kiling turrets gives your team points for each killed

Fyi, I'm already there: I'm apathetic. I've stopped playing. The FOMO grind has become just too much.

Weird! My college experience, in Canada, was Christmas breaks were generally the same as hjghschool (2 weeks) with the exception of if your exam schedule allowed for you to leave earlier then the rest.

I don't think Bungie wants a Crucible loaded with no lifers. Well over 80% of the playerbase does not spend hours upon hours a day doing nothing but Crucible and it feels bad to get matched up against people like that. It's really that simple. In fact, I don't believe Crucible was designed to be anything more than some chaotic dumb fun. This idea that we need a more competitive experience in Crucible is kind of funny in a game that has roaming supers and ability spam.

We've been asking for the same very basic thing from Destiny PVP for damn near a decade. That the easiest to use stuff not also be the most powerful stuff. At this point it is obviously never happening.

What do we expect of pvp when bungle puts a 0.3 kd in charge of it.

Imma tell you right now, if fighting Xivu Arath only makes her stronger, then there is only one person that can stop her- Eva MUTHER EFFIN Levante! Oooh I’d love to see the look on Xivu Arath’s face when Eva rolls up with a plate of cookies!

Not sure why they're saying they'll get heat for being slightly critical of Bungie and the game. They didn't go nearly hard enough on them and they never do

On Soteria, i believe shes an independent AI developed for planning the extra solar colonies and trajectories. I don't bekieve it was a rasputin submind or an AI tied to a singular colony ship

It is a mobile game at this point. Great point. Bungie has neglected pvp for so long what else would you expect.

Great episode, been watching since planet destiny. Stay positive but be willing to critique, I don’t collect everything anymore because of eververse but the game is still fun to play in doses. Keep up the good show :)

I grinded for the Shader like a chump, but had fun overall.

theres a old d1 lore card where a guardian got vooped, the ghost collected as much of the particles of their guardian and revived them.

Have to concur with Watts. And my kda is just a bit of 1.2 so I'm not a pvp main, but I was heading towards loving pve as much or more than pve near the end of D1 (before they crippled the ammo economy anyway). But with D2 now it's so much more than just SBMM (which would be fine in one or two specific modes). The bottom line is due to a range of factors, guns and gunplay (ie. gun duels) are a whole lot less important than they should be, than they used to be. Some of the factors causing this are... - Ability spam: it's everywhere. Overshields, grenades that track you AND do enough damage to kill, shoot-through walls, etc - Unbalanced abilties / ability & gun combos: eg, Messenger & warlock melee one-shots you from a range that makes shotguns a joke - PVE guns out of control in PVP: Witherhoard is like a double-charge grenade on steroids, kills quickly up close or at range, denies area, refreshes fully on death. WTF. Also: exotic linears say hello. - Heavy always on the map: so much fun getting a rocket to the face because I played the objective and my teammates didn't get to the heavy spawn. D1 infinitely better in this regard. - BAD spawns: never have I spawned in only to be instantly killed so much as now. Long range accurate fast-ttk guns (DMT, NTTE) being common doesn't help. D2 4v4 maps weren't meant for 6v6. There are other problems with pvp (incentives could be better etc) but for me the above reasons are why the activity itself isn't fun. Fwiw, I was watching a November Hotel vid here on youtube and he had some D1 pvp gameplay on screen for some of the vid as he talked about now vs then. And in the comments there were quite a few D2 players who loved how that version of crucible looked...more deliberate, about strategy and gun skills, not ability abuse. If people who never played D1 think _that_ crucible looks like more fun than what we have now...well, I don't need to say anymore do I?

Feel bad for Watts. They broke her spirit

I’m really confused about what Watts (and the others) said about how Iron Banner went down. Surely this is only a thing if you are in the top 10% pvp player base. I am pretty much THE average player, swinging between a k/d of 1.10 and 0.9 all the time and I didn’t have any experience even close to it. I played to get 1 reset and to rank 9 after that. I got *0* mercies. I even complained to myself about how a mercy should happen after a 35 point difference. I encountered *0* afk players on either side. I encountered *0* people or entire teams throwing any match. About 80% of games didn’t have any more lag than usual, which isn’t much to begin with. SBMM definitely made pvp better overall, as I can actually win more than 2/10 matches every 10 matches. I can actually win 4/10 - 5/10 matches now. I still found invisible hunters a MUCH greater issue than bubble titans. Especially when I have a 50/50 strat where I can kill the titan on my own with double grenade spam in the bubble and shotgun punching. I really liked this mode as a concept for Iron Banner, as it’s always been about objectives and what is more of an objective than only getting points only for completing objectives and none for killing. The only thing I didn’t care for AT ALL is the 3rd capture point with the turrets. Remove that and it’s perfect!

I think they are using Destiny as a testing ground for matchmaking for the new competitive games.

Maybe Ms Watts is being a little whiny, but her insights are great. Maybe you can't design the experience for the top 1% and just maybe.. SBMM makes sense for the current player base. Id love to hear from Ms Watts on how to keep the bottom 80% engaged in PVP. Im not hearing much empathy in her points for the bottom 99%.

Still find it funny that while most of the community says they would grind out an activity to get a cosmetic, when something like that come along we get loss farming. Make it, make sense.

I've given up on keeping up with D2 religiously. I used to complete pinnacles weekly, do all my raids to have the weapons, do activities I didn't want to do to clear a check mark. I just threw in the towel and look at it from Dattos perspective. Everything I have acquired is already cool and I only hop on to clear the seasonal story and play with friends. But even if the item I want is there, if the grind for it is terrible I'll just pass. I play mobile games and they've taught me to just play what I like and move on to other things when I have nothing I like to play in the game.

We are in an simulation of in game testing. Blue Pill anyone? lol Each season is a test for the next lol

Is it just me or does the lighting make mylein look like a completely different person. Like a caveman or something.

I love Bungie’s definition of “loose” sbmm. When they originally said loose sbmm in the twab I knew immediately that was going to be a lie. Now sbmm is in every playlist except the rotator and trials. The rotator playlist modes are a waste of time 90% of the time excluding rumble and trials has card base matchmaking.

I want a super that allows me to summon my dog. Lol

So in d1, which I still think was the best version of destiny the gunplay was the focus, and you had supers and grenades. yes grenades were bad in d1, but they are nothing compared to the current meta in d2. It's bad, I am a avid destiny lover and still put in too much time playing but Iron banner was bad this weekend and when my 6 stack went against the throwing 6 stacks I was excited because I was only there for the shader and did not care about winning legitly, even though I had already prestiged the title. I miss going into PvP and actually enjoying myself. Yes I am generally in the upper half of pvp players but its just not fun now. I like the gunplay, but hate the ability spam.

I don't think we will see Xivu until the end of Lightfall

Bungie knew wtf they were doing that’s why they put it out while that were on Xmas break. And then in the twab they plan to implement changes that should have alredy been in the fkn game. When at gonna start hailing them accountable for the bullshit they put out

Actually it was closer then 3 months before having to close up shop and end destiny 2, at D2 launch they were losing players so fast they calculated that they had 5 weeks before the game would be over.

It was 5 weeks from becoming dead.

I'll take number 2.

Rasputin will be killed at the end of this season and revived as a guardian.

Explosive shanks

Where the heck did Teffty's beard go? Dude, Gambit has been extremely fun lately. But this Iron Banner, I actually think was very fun. I liked the game mode. The problem was the reward system. To many dang rocket launchers. But I did get a Groll Hero Burden. I don't mind the direction they took because movement needed to be nerfed. Now if they designed the game to be more in tune with D1 where movement wasn't the end all- be all, and make the gun play like it was in D1, I think most of the problems would be fixed.

If you're gonna do a state of crucible, maybe and just spitballing here, maybe have a dad or someone who is not very good in the conversation I love the opinions but temper the chads with steves

I honestly dont see why in any activity you could complete it and just not get a drop, thats what makes grinding Iron Banner, strikes and gambit especially for a certain drop so damn painful, it should be atleast one activity specific drop win or loss on completion with a high chance for an extra drop if you win. Would make grinding anything infinitely more worth your time and reduce burnout

OK whats with the dog? They didn't really explain it and I never saw it. Did I just miss it? Edit. It's a secret side mission ish..... crap.

I honestly believe the reason PvP sucks so bad right now (especially airborne) is because they’re laying down the foundation to make sure strand and the grappling hook mechanic doesn’t just completely upend and imbalance PvP when Lightfall comes. If that’s true, they should just say so upfront. Which is probably why its not

IB doesn't have SBMM. Just Frieteam matchmaking, so 6 stack only goes against 6's and not full team of blueberries

Other PvP games might scoop up some people. There is always going to be those who will find ways to gain advantages with the tools available, you can't really stop it.

I actually really enjoyed the mode. I liked that it had teams shifting focus throughout the match. Now the amount of games I had to play to get the 2 resets and the shader was a bit much. I do have to say that we are at a place where there aren’t any big exploits (hunter infinite spectral blades, warlock chaos reach etc). I saw a very big mix of weapon types in IB. Sure there were some a little more common than others but I saw a lot of variety. Yes there are a lot of abilities but it was rare I ran into something that one shot me unless someone had very specifically built into that and that wasn’t the norm. Anyways I get it is different for different levels of players (I am very average at crucible) and on different platforms (ran into more lag when playing with PC people than if I just stuck to console).

Remove the 4 +2 pinnacles from IB and see how popular it still is. People keep ignoring that for casual/solo players, IB has always been an easy way to get a big power boost 2-4 times per season.

I’m not the biggest fan of myelins takes but I agree with him on this one. Bungie is experimenting with their player base and tipping between now much it takes to piss off players. If we don’t like the game we need to play something else!

skill based match making is good and removing it is not the solution to your isues with it

The bubbles and DMT in Iron Banner didn't make me nearly as mad as the spawns being broken.

i love this show and i love to consume destiny related content however, the type of player i am has no representation on here. I play mainly pve but do all the modes and i play about 3-5 hours a day everyday and this game has never been better for me. I've been playing since before dark below and have well over 4k hours total. I see pvp peeps having a lot to complain about but personally i don't get, i've never had more fun than right now. Tons of weapons to grind, dungeons to solo, Gms, raids pvp pinnacle stuff i love it all and this perspective is always overlooked and never accounted for

My only recommendation to bungie is to remove SBMM in the social/casual/party game settings. Quickplay is for fun not for sweat. Also SBMM implementation into comp is questionable if it is truly supposed to a ladder to climb to show your true skill. I have given up trying to understand their reasoning for anything

bungle truly just sucks at pvp and always have. If they haven't figured it out by now they never will. What do you think that 0.3 kd has to add?? And you are questioning how bad it is?? It just keeps going down the slippery slope into the abyss.

So, let me get this straight, Myelin: no disrespect, man, but the reason you've a problem with this dog showing up in D2, more or less in your words, "a potential excuse for Bungie to sell something for a cash grab AND sans a story reason for it"? Emphasis on the latter. So, if the dog was tied the story in a significant way, no problem whatsoever? Also, in regards to the question addressed about the possibility of disengagement from Destiny 2, no one mentioned anything about franchise fatigue, which I think is a major variable as to why there's "little interest in the grind and godroll chases" and whatnot as stated by podcast members who've been playing this game since the franchise's debut. With the possible exception of Myelin, no one currently on this podcast are really major Destiny content creators and as Tefty put it, diversify your options if need be. Nothing wrong with playing something else, especially considering the plethora of options that are available now. One last thing, this whole Eververse getting prioritized attention as opposed the rest of the game: the work that goes into designing that stuff isn't on the same level as say, making a new map, game mode, or season activity, etc. Props to the art team for making the cosmetics as appealing as they are though, because it does seem to sell and as long as that stuff sells, that focus towards Eververse that's often complained about won't be wavering anytime soon.

Keep the background game music down. We already know you're disinterested in D2. :P

Can confirm match making in Australia is rough. Can never find comp games.

I just mute anyone complaining about pvp because all they do is complain. It's made destiny a better experience for me. Besides, if you wanna complain about crucible, I'm gonna tell you; "Stfu Gambit needs attention way more at this point."

Not even gonna watch it but I'm so tired of hearing about 'the state of Crucible'. How about the state of GAMBIT? You know the game mode that actually hasn't had any updates in like FOUR YEARS!? Fuck Crucible

SBMM is a red herring content creators and idiots chase to mask the real problems pvp has always had.

I love you guys but I also hate you guys... "Pvp is getting nothing!" Literally have gotten overhauls comp/iron banner. Major pain points with IB getting addressed with the next one. Also a fun fact. Just because you are not having fun doesn't mean I'm having a bad time. I'm actually fun in a long while.

Man, I love Watts to death, but playing Destiny for the PVP is literally like eating celery for the flavor. You just dont.

I hope watts stays on the show though!!! She’s an OG. Can’t get light without watts am I right.

ima be honest F pvp in destiny2 scrap it and let the few who play it go. pump that money into PVE and story content. besides its the bread and butter of the game period. bungie isnt capable of running a fair well balanced PVP experience they should just junk it. or make it so simple it only gets played my movement abusers and KOVAKS freaks.