DCS F/A-18C Hornet Precision Approach Radar Demonstration with US Navy ATC Controller!

Рет қаралды 19,742

3 жыл бұрын

Today I am joined by a few other members of my community to help answer a question that I have seen asked time, and time again within the DCS World Community on forums, comment sections and in discussions.
That is the simple question of why does the F/A-18 Hornet lack ILS equipment and the capability to fly an precision approach through IMC to an Airfield?
You can of course fly a Non-Precision TACAN-HI or LOW approach but what if the weather is below the minimums of such an approach like the marine layer that is commonly found at places like MCAS Miramar or NAS North Island.
In that Case you request a GCA or ground controlled approach that usually if not always takes the form of a PAR Approach or Precision Approach Radar for an F/A-18 Hornet.
In order to demonstrate to you guys what a PAR Approach looks like we have with us an Active Duty US Navy ATC Controller who goes by Squid on Discord and enough pilots to fill two flights of two Hornets consisting of T-Bolt and Shooter flights.
Squid as Al Minhad Approach will be using LotATC to take the place of the radar equipment found in a real GCA shack at a military air base.
While not as precise or as intuitive as the real equipment, LotATC is a great tool to use for this demonstration but isn’t without its quirks, the biggest of which is the tendency for LotATC’s extended centerline to bring pilots .3 NM south of the runway on the Persian Gulf map, creating more of a circle to land situation when breaking out of the clouds and going visual.
Something important to note here is that most of the foreign customers of the F/A-18C notably Finland had the ICLS equipment removed and replaced with ground based ILS equipment. The US Navy and Marines elected to only have built in ICLS due to space and weight saving and the wide availability of GCA PAR approaches at US Military air bases.
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Пікірлер: 145

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

Huge thanks to our Active Duty US Navy ATC Controller, Squid and our other F/A-18 Pilots who helped make this video possible! It was a blast to make and I hope you guys enjoy the video!

@DJones476 3 жыл бұрын

Hey, Spud, did you know that the Blue Angels use ILS instead of ACLS? This is because it's extremely rare for the Blues to land on the boat, and because airports/hotels! =)

@moloh2529 3 жыл бұрын

im a real military pilot and have one question... why doesnt the par lead direct on threshold? it should though... is it miscalibrated in game?! nevertheless high quality content u make... thumbs up

@ArkanOthman 3 жыл бұрын

I've probably said it before but... The most underrated DCS KZfaqr I have ever seen.

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

Other DCS youtubers survive on memes and dogfights alone, We survive on procedures and history.

@WrUSasu 3 жыл бұрын

@@Spudknocker And quality, don't forget quality.

@TH33QUALIZ3R 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, he's my favourite DCS channel as well. No egos, toxicity or clowning around. Just mature and straight to the business. Each video feels like a learning experience to me whether it's showing off a new feature or a full-length mission.

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

Claus Von Stauffenberg wow very glad to hear that dude!

@steekle7 3 жыл бұрын

@@Spudknocker Oof

@MaxPowerFilthcrud 3 жыл бұрын

You know it's DCS content when you are two minutes into the video and already heard 5 acronyms you don't understand.

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

Hahahaha if I explained every single one it would be a 5 hour video hahaha!

@MaxPowerFilthcrud 3 жыл бұрын

@@Spudknocker probably! Nah it's fine man. I got used to the pausing and googling and it got much less compared to a month ago! We have some really great content creators for DCS. Thanks for being on of them! :)

@OzDeaDMeaT 3 жыл бұрын

would love to see this video re-made after the clouds come out.

@rowdy75 3 жыл бұрын

Hint for Squid and all LotATC users: The PAR lateral guidance display is by default set to show deviations of up to +/-5NM left/right from centerline, which as seen in the video is way too unprecise for lateral guidance. With Shift key held and mouse wheel (while mouse cursor is over the lateral display), you can change that deviation reference. If you set it to show a max. deviation of only half a mile (+/- .5NM) or less, the display will get more sensitive and thus realistic, and your lateral guidance can become realistically precise. Thanks DArt for LotATC, loving it! Thanks Spud, Squid and all participants for the video!

@Jacktherookie_ 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks :) This saved me a lot of effort :)

@sloppydog4831 3 жыл бұрын

Good content. The music, the comms, building up tension...Shows how ATC work is hard. Solid work man... as always.

@dieternussbaumer5568 3 жыл бұрын

Excellent video! As an old ATC Controller from the Swiss Air Force I made PAR too, but with 11° GP and a slithly different procedure. Really fun what you have achieved!

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

I am really glad you enjoyed it man!

@michaellarson5191 2 жыл бұрын

I did an approach like this in a Citation Bravo in TOL once…. Was a lot of fun and neat to experience! The lady pilot absolutely drilled it. Nice work!

@olehberehovyy1002 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for clear and laconic multy AC ATC control training video!

@pierrelofinusound3020 3 жыл бұрын

Excellent ! 2.7 brought new volumetric clouds, maybe DCs 3.0 will bring such an awesome ATC control !

@SANDMAN32191 3 жыл бұрын

Hands down my favorite DCS KZfaqr. You're dong great things my man.

@skylarmorehead9883 Жыл бұрын

@Spudknocker has a great dong as well? lol idk how you know that man, and i may not wanna ever know, but dang what doesn't @Spudknocker have going for him? Spud is the MAN!

@fourfortyroadrunner6701 Ай бұрын

USN, 68-74, ETR-2, NAS Miramar, 70-74, I was a GCA tech. We had two FPN 36 QUAD RADAR, and the FPN-52, which was the PAR section of the old CPN-4. The 52 was pointed E out about 8 thousand feet off the S side of 24L. The site is still there but with different equipment. Hard to tell as Google is behind times. Our shop was behind the bore sight building, both of which are gone. They were located on the N side of the high speed taxiway, our shop was several hundred yards E of the TACAN. That tower MIGHT?? be the same one when I was there, but building and antenna appears different. I have seen controllers recover AC when you could not see across the runway from the trailer. PSA used to have a contract with the navy, if Lindberg was below minimums, they would land at Miramar. We worked 3 section (24 on/ 48 off) I am 75

@karse132 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I love your content. Always both informative and inspiring.

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you man! I appreciate that!

@fourfortyroadrunner6701 Ай бұрын

At the time I was at Miramar "Fightertown, USA" and the "Top Gun" school was there, so, lots of training. They also had a CCA (Carrier Controlled Approach) and I was always mystified that we got NO cross training between GCA maintenance and CCA. CCA was essentially a similar radar system to GCA, except it was mounted (on a carrier) on a stabilized platform. Before I left/ discharged in 74, they were experimenting with a "needles" system, all computerized, all solid state. They gave me an overview, but would not allow me to train on it, as I was "short" and had no intention of staying in. I don't remember the nomenclature. It was intended to be a carrier system

@suecobandito8954 3 жыл бұрын

Good video. Loved shooting PAR’s in the KC-130. Military use PAR because most bases didn’t have ILS at least when I was flying early to mid 80’s.

@Wh1terider 3 жыл бұрын

Bravo folks. Well done 👍

@dealviindeproductions1687 3 жыл бұрын

That was so freakin' cool!

@biffstew6545 Жыл бұрын

As a military twr/gca / rapcon controller I can look back and be proud of the trainees coming up thru the ranks knowing how difficult the journey is. Our mantra has always been "Train Till You Die " If this Job was easy, more surgeons could do it !

@Yuto64E 3 жыл бұрын

this is insanely good

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@MarkM324 3 жыл бұрын

I used to shoot the military PAR in Helos many moons ago. I even got to go into the shack to see the screen and talk with the exact controller that held my hand after one of the approaches. Very cool!!

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks man! I’ve done a few into MCAS Miramar and it’s a very very cool experience that’s for sure!

@MarkM324 3 жыл бұрын

Maintenance crews have always been my heroes. But, ATC runs a very close 2nd... Thanks Control!

@VJS161Fire 3 жыл бұрын

Nice to see an PAR approach with comms. Thanks!

@zarrockvorran13 3 жыл бұрын

Absolute blast!

@slipperys0ap817 3 жыл бұрын

thanks for posting in 1440p i can finally watch in theatre mode and there wont's be black bars on each side

@mrpawno4955 3 жыл бұрын

That woulve been 10 times better with the new clouds :D

@martinklaus2203 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome video!! Love to get some LotAtc training.

@michaeldehart648 3 жыл бұрын

Nice. Thanks to all you!

@technofaisal 3 жыл бұрын

Great work

@barbe6503 3 жыл бұрын

Just a comment on Squid. I've had the pleasure of flying with him (in DCS) a few times. Very knowlegable, helpful and an all round good guy.

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

Couldn't agree more!

@Wolfy101st 3 жыл бұрын

Enjoyed very much .

@elliotstorey5461 3 жыл бұрын

Love it man!!

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks man!

@acesidewinder 3 жыл бұрын

Very interesting. Always wondered how that works.

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it man!

@FD1CE 3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely fantastic.

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

Many thanks!

@FSHFCE 3 жыл бұрын

To say these acronyms are numbing my brain would be an understatement

@PiSkiS320 3 жыл бұрын

The only thing missing was: Spudknocker - AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS ALWAYS!

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

I am sorry to disappoint haha

@LotAtc 3 жыл бұрын

Great video Spudknocker ! Nice to see LotAtc used by real ATC controller ! Thx !

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it!

@LotAtc 3 жыл бұрын

@@Spudknocker And for the axis offset, it is corrected with 2.2.0 that is currently in beta phase ;)

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

LotAtc awesome! That’s good to hear!

@SwissFlightInsight 3 жыл бұрын

Very good video. In Switzerland we do it in slightly different way than you show it up. We have steeper approaches and we don't let the pilot read back the instruction during the descend and at point of descent we give descent instruction to pilot and the decision altitude. But very good video, looking forward to do one in DCS 😄👍

@michaellarson5191 2 жыл бұрын

The one approach I did like this in a Citation in US, once on glide path and course, controller said “no more replies” on my part. I just shut up and made the corrections.

@chrisgoddard1855 3 жыл бұрын

Great watch thanks. Is it standard to repeat message and Then give callsign or just choice?

@Paroxsym-OX 3 жыл бұрын

Its standard readback procedure, lets the controller know that you got the message and can correct any mistakes if the pilot misunderstood/misheard something.

@GTModified 3 жыл бұрын

Great vid dude! What music did you use for the radar cuts at 8:43?

@bonedust5757 3 жыл бұрын

Are you using SRS for the radio effect? Sounds better than what I've heard.

@groundpounder0541 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah! Now I just need enough buddies to do this stuff! I'm almost a real boy!

@chappy5evc 3 жыл бұрын

The CF-188 (Canadian F-18) also has ILS in place of the Automatic Carrier Landing System (ACLS).

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

Which makes total sense, seeing as it gets rather cloudy in their neck of the woods! Haha

@DJones476 3 жыл бұрын

@@Spudknocker Especially at Comox Air Force Base on Vancouver Island!

@angelareid.7699 3 жыл бұрын

Pretty easy decision when we have no carriers XD

@DJones476 3 жыл бұрын

@@angelareid.7699 Unlike Australia, which disabled all of the carrier-borne features of their F-18s (except the tailhook), Canada retained them just in case a declared war broke out and some of our squadrons, for whatever reason, decided to boat qual on U.S. carriers. In the present situation, however, it simply isn't necessary for CF-18 squadrons to carrier qual.

@robertperry6048 3 жыл бұрын

As a former NAVY ATC radar final approach controller, I enjoyed hearing this familiar radio calls and responses. It has been over 30 since I last did this kind of work, do they still have aircraft “Ident” as a form of positive radar identification ?

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

Yep! Ident is still a thing just not in DCS haha

@scoot9175 Жыл бұрын

Yes. Present day, the six methods of radar identification are rolling handoffs, position correlation, identifying turns, "Ident", changing squawk code, and stop squawk. I'm in the USMC ATC schoolhouse now and learning PAR this week! For what it's worth, our equipment still *looks* like it's the same stuff you probably worked on haha!

@clericneokun 3 жыл бұрын

A bit of an off-topic comment but this video brought me back to when I still played Falcon 4.0 a decade ago and how ATC there would handhold me from approach all the way to final. Flash-forward to the first time I played DCS last month and I was quite weirded out and somewhat upset at how quiet the AI ATC there was.

@keppler1217 3 жыл бұрын

I expected to hear something along the lines of "[Callsign], do not acknowledge unless asked" on the PAR approaches - with the only two calls made being the "Gear down and Locked" and "Visual Runway, continuing/Blind, going around" at minimums. I suppose that's a difference in SOPs, being in a European V(irtual)FW instead of US Navy. Same with the "one-zero-thousand" instead of "Flight level one-zero-zero". Very professional comms, I had a few takeaways on how I can improve my radio work as well :) .

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

Things are always slightly different, I find that most DCS groups use more civilian based comms because it’s usually more accessible. And I’ve also noticed that DCS players get far more caught up in the specifics of what they are saying, IRL as long as you’re getting the information across and all parties understand it and are competent it’s usually not a big deal. Pilots IRL are people to and make mistakes on the radio or accidentally say something funny etc haha

@Brayden_Rx7 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah,usually "do not acknowledge any further transmissions " after final establishes comms

@jonahsohmer9747 3 жыл бұрын

The difference between “one-zero thousand” and “FL100” is that the transition altitude through Canada and the United States is always FL180 while in Europe it varies airport to airport

@flightsimstuff5417 3 жыл бұрын

Cool. I last did a PAR in, oh, about 1988 (yeah, I know). "They" said it was being phased out; ILS was "the way". So we didn't do as many as in years previous. Years later I find out they still have them. Reason: ILS's are more susceptible to being killed/jammed (or something like that). You can use a mobile PAR and truck it into where you need it (obviously we're talking AF or VM here not, VV). Interestingly enough it appears to be 90% the same, with minor phraseology differences. FWIW, this is another example of a complex system that only works cuzz the people on both ends are competent in what they're doing; it would be a serious fuster cluck if the pilot wasn't good at _pilot_ _stuff_

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

We’re still flying the same airplanes that were around in 1988, they keep saying the same thing about VOR / TACAN but I doubt they will ever go!

@karlchilders5420 3 жыл бұрын

Marines still use PAR technology. They still have the capability to set up an airfield VERY rapidly, including servicing instrument approaches, precision and non-precision, within 2 days. I'm talking A-2 matting, NAVAIDS, comm gear, generators, etc. All of that. It's awesome to see them build up and tear down in such a short time.

@theblueberry197 3 жыл бұрын

As the guy who flys the USAF planes in DCS and makes fun of the Navy planes for not having ILS, this is pretty cool

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

In most cases it is actually more precise than an ILS Approach

@theblueberry197 3 жыл бұрын

@@Spudknocker Interesting, thanks for the new fact!

@firechickenfan 3 жыл бұрын

Hey Spud, video was badass asssss always! Question.... does Kortana have a KZfaq channel?

@KortanaDCS 3 жыл бұрын

I do, but most of my videos so far have just been tests of my recording/editing software or clips of funny moments in DCS, lol

@firechickenfan 3 жыл бұрын

Subscribed!

@Buin 3 жыл бұрын

What is the normal distance from touchdown to start reducing to on speed AOA? It seems this was quite late ...

@DJones476 3 жыл бұрын

Where did you get those awesome '80s guitar riffs, Spud?

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

Its the F-14 Tomcat sound track!

@DJones476 3 жыл бұрын

@@Spudknocker Ah! Thanks, Buddy!

@OLIV3R_YT 3 жыл бұрын

@@DJones476 it's on Spotify too

@33salemhockey 3 жыл бұрын

hey there i just found a x65f flight stick by saltek seen good and some bad about it anyone have any idea if its worth getting

@carlosagaton4945 3 жыл бұрын

Finally...the 323 livery

@EdvardHansson 3 жыл бұрын

great as always spud! Whats that cool music?

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

It’s the heatblur F-14 soundtrack!

@EdvardHansson 3 жыл бұрын

@@Spudknocker phoenix rising is spot on what i love in this style of retro music

@kefa5541 3 жыл бұрын

Spud love the videos! As a NEW DCS want to be Flight Sim Gamer? About purchase my first gaming Sim package. What gaming computer CPU, monitor ultra wide, HOTAS system etc.. with a medium to high budget. Can you give some recommendations for a medium budget system and a medium -high budget complete system ? Please please. I am ready to purchase a complete system tomorrow . I have been researching on my own but to be a honest a bit overwhelmed with all the technical Spec language 🙂🤣. Can you help please. Also I will be supporting your page $ and signing up for One on Once Basic lessons. Thanks love your videos!

@daviddoyle982 8 ай бұрын

23:55 How do I access this landing screen on DCS? Any help is appreciated. Is it a mod or a part of core game? Cheers, David.

@rickdeckard8716 3 жыл бұрын

Is the FPN-63 still being used ?

@bobd4605 3 жыл бұрын

Great GCA. I'm a little surprised the speed was kept up to 320 Its or so throughout the approach.

@cooldad100 3 жыл бұрын

You mean when asked for "Landing Checks complete" (twice) he had failed to put his plane into the landing configuration i.e. gear down. Different Air Forces, different procedures, but as some of the ATC commentators have commentated, there is normally a "do not acknowledge any further transmissions unless requested" - and of course confirm Landing Checks/gear down is one of those calls that is acknowledged. But great video and grateful for ALL who took part to give their time (& spudknocker as always, to post)

@JasonBourne1227 3 жыл бұрын

Spudknocker, if I ever want to know how to do stuff in DCS, your videos are the go-to after I watch Wags. IMO your channel is the most watchable DCS channel. Keep up the great work. I will reach out to you one day for some expert tuition. To you and your fellow 'spuds', amazing work! 'Aaaasss always!'

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you man I really really appreciate your awesome and supportive comment!

@TH33QUALIZ3R 3 жыл бұрын

20:00 Not too keen on that foliage pop-up there Spud. You running on low settings as I've never noticed that before. I'm going to be extra paranoid now.

@diamondmm 3 жыл бұрын

why are your mirrors so glitchy ? .... why?

@sedlo 3 жыл бұрын

As always?

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

Oops. I Guess I forgot haha

@Plumsytheghillieone 3 жыл бұрын

As sometimes :P

@CakePrincessCelestia 3 жыл бұрын

@@Spudknocker Holy plot of Princess Sunbutt, you literally broke the internet :D

@AP-ng1bm 3 жыл бұрын

As a civil ATC I can confirm you are all way too compliant 🙂 ; needs more pilot heckling...

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

LOL like ive said, DCS pilots try to be "too perfect" on the radios haha

@DJones476 3 жыл бұрын

@A P: The civil world is a tad different from the military world. Lipping off to an ATC (depending on rank) can not only get you grounded, it can get you court-martialed for insubordination.

@TeambitDK 3 жыл бұрын

no aaaaaaass always?

@OLIV3R_YT 3 жыл бұрын

I was wondering as well XD

@CakePrincessCelestia 3 жыл бұрын

Internet: broken.

@simulacrae 3 жыл бұрын

That looks like an insanely roundabout way to direct planes. Just install the ILS-stuff in the planes

@Spudknocker 3 жыл бұрын

PAR can actually be more precise than ILS Equipment, but it is more intensive on Controller workload, from my perspective the pilot workload is no more than that of an ILS

@karlchilders5420 3 жыл бұрын

GCA pre-dates ILS by decades. Also, when the pilot and controller work together, you can have a far more accurate setup, transition, and touchdown accuracy. ILS can only do this with CAT-III systems, and the pilots and aircraft have to be equipped, trained and current. With GCA approaches (PAR is the radar, which provides the GCA, or Ground Controlled Approach) you simply need an instrument rated pilot with working 2 way radios. The minimums for GCA approaches was also lower typically than other methods. Only with the advent of "coupled" approaches did that begin to change.

@simulacrae 3 жыл бұрын

@@karlchilders5420 We see in the video that it isn't very accurate, when they descended below the cloud cover they were in no way on a clean approach, they had to go visual at that point, ILS can direct you at 0 vis.

@karlchilders5420 3 жыл бұрын

@@simulacrae Uh, the approach controller and final controller can also direct you in 0 vis. Do not forget the limitations set forth in LOT ATC. It's not the same exact thing as having a 3 degree glideslope programmed in to a PAR. GCA approach guidance can quite literally be 0-0. They typically have a decision height that is roughly equivalent to what an ILS would be. You will hear a final controller tell you things like, at decision height, over the approach lights, over landing threshold, touchdown.. They have these things marked, and in many cases where these PAR systems are set up long-term, controllers are very experienced and can tell you very precisely where you are and what you are doing trend-wise on your approach.

@ccanakin 3 жыл бұрын

@@karlchilders5420 afaik is the PAR minimum the same as ILS Cat I, so yes it is a precision approach, but not for 0 visibility (like ILS Cat III). LotATC is ok-ish in its way, but the update-rate is slower than on an actual PAR, therefor making corrections harder for the controller.

@jstorm7757 3 жыл бұрын

Isn't this more like a Localizer approach? A true PAR would have resulted in the jets being verbally guided to the exact runway threshold and not having to take over visually to align.

@kelby810 3 жыл бұрын

He explained in the video and in the description that it is an issue with the software implementation: "LotATC is a great tool to use for this demonstration but isn’t without its quirks, the biggest of which is the tendency for LotATC’s extended centerline to bring pilots .3 NM south of the runway on the Persian Gulf map, creating more of a circle to land situation when breaking out of the clouds and going visual."

@unkykevy 3 жыл бұрын

@jordan8538 Жыл бұрын

Wouldn't call this precision, basically had to go full VFR after dropping below the clouds, no where near the runway.

@scdzcrx Жыл бұрын

Watching this hurts my brain. Terrible phraseology 😢

@biffstew6545 Жыл бұрын

Hey Squid simulators don't count for **** Approaching glidepath, began decent. Go around- Navy Idiot on runway- Climb and maintain 3 thousand, turn left proceed direct the VOR for two turns in holding, one minute-two mile legs--- left turns...