printed codex 6 months before release.

You still got all the space marines codex units. Not to mention Azrael who's still a powerhouse.

DA new horde army incoming

@@Turai12 yeah but in a world where leaks don't exist you would spend 50$ to find 18 datasheets, many iconic units removed for no reason and huge nerf, but ehi we got Azrael

@@Turai12I don’t like space marines I like terminators, primaris units look silly. Perish fool

That's because they were. If that wasn't clear to you at the time of the release of 10th you weren't paying attention

Reading the ravenwing and deathwing detachments makes you think they were written by completely different people

This wasn't even written by the same rules team as the Space Marine Codex, they didn't know Company Heroes existed and they didn't know that terminators lost the ignore modifiers rule in Codex.

by now it's basically proven that each codex is written in a vacuum, then sometimes "fixed" later by nerfing what's revealed OP and almost never buffing anything (one notable exception I can think of was the slaping of CORE keyword on 75% of the Necron codex in 9th edition .... that dataslate was MENTAL for us Necron players lmao)

Most people do I think. I didn't play more than test games in ninth or tenth. Play enough to know it was crap and I didn't want to play with those rules and and haven't since. Not my game anymore to simple, restrictive and boring.

It’s because Terminators are expensive point wise. They don’t want to buy elite models and play them, they want to sell you more models for less points. Termies are terrible for almost every army right now.

​@@PandaCool1ehh,templars can make them good at least in my experience so far

@@THEHOLYCHAINSWORD10 terminators with chaplain and 5+++ are great. Always does work for me

With the 5+ feel no pain enhancement, right? I was wondering how effective it would be on a 10 man squad of termies, maybe even with thunder hammers and shields@@THEHOLYCHAINSWORD

@@PandaCool1 Oh yea I'm just saying it's funny how much they're showcased compared to where they actually land on the tabletop now. Would also say the same about most character models not even being shown on competitive list because of points. Feel like the only army showcasing their primarch in competitive is world eaters lol.

And wardens are too expensive as well

Probably was

If I had to guess, the same person who thought 42 points per model sang guard would be a good idea

Balanca dataslate will make it better I believe. You can´t nerf a unit like this and at the same time push their points up to eleven.

@40kVallin I remember when they did that to Chaos Cultists. They increased their points cost to the same as a guardsman even tho their stats are much worse and they took away legion traits which was the one thing they had making them good. They had far worse stats, weapons, and no abilities like orders but still cost the same as a guardsman who was far better. I mean I understand taking away the legion trait because it was pretty powerful on them, but to take it away AND increase their points cost was too far.

Don't worry , you'll paint them green once the Red Angels get their codex

What? you want to customize your army so it feels unique? Too bad we are Meta chasing now! Buy our over priced Monopose models!!!!!

totaaly agree. the reduced strats and relics is good but we are losing too much flavour

@@LtTrog yeah. The ability to give units special abilities is interesting, but ultimately makes some units shoot up to be far more useful then others and creates even more of a balance hurdle with odd synergies (assault marines mortal wounds on charge work great into big stuff but the unit really only gets chainswords). Not to mention characters are now super basic and samey. The removal of chapter tactics was also a huge blow to a lot of armies diversity. And no generic strats or enhancements for a faction just feels so lame. Why can’t I maneuver a chapter master like in 8th or 9th?

Its why I jumped ship to Heresy cause theres loads of flavour in each army with their own units and special wargear exclusive to them which is fun.

Before you know it every single army is gonna feel the exact same

The unit banner is from the old datacard when the unit still had access to the TH/SS option. The new datacard doesn't have the same picture

YES! I thought it was a problem in the index that would get fixed with the codex. Why the sergeant of specially deathwing terminators cannot take a power fist is absurd

@@stephenferry3017 honestly, it's a slight dip but I'm sure next Ed. it will be power weapons outclassing power fists again. I never planned on building any term Sgt with fists anyway

@matthewchouinard666 aesthetically, it's kinda goofy and it means rolling different dice and keeping more numbers in your head than you do for other newer units. Ostensibly they didnt give heavy and special weapons to intercessors because they wanted them to be simpler than tac squads.

@@matthewchouinard666 who cares about power? I sculpted middle fingers for my power fists... now i wanna mail them to GW's head office(orifice?)

Feels that way

They didn't tell him the secrets, duh.

no parents allowed in the inner circle pillow fort

But they won't sell it after the codex. The DWCS box is the same box as the current Deathwing Knights, since this box is going away as soon as the Knights hit the store it makes sense (in a purely commercial POV, axing a unit that has been around for so long is just dumb)

Ironically they just put it back in stock yesterday while other boxes of units that will survive the next 2 weeks are still missing.

Nah Necrons are already good. It'll be Xenos and Chaos again

I’m swearing by my tinfoil hat theory. They’re gonna release one of their new giant refreshes in a broken state. Kroot, the new army, or something else is gonna come out purposely OP so everyone will wanna buy them because a lot of the other armies suck ass right now

​@@cadettrev762honestly I am just waiting to see how my drukhari get absolutely railed

When they're all awful, none of them are.

Literally!@@Flight_of_Icarus

Especially since a lot of people will have a spare one from their ex-command squads

Seems that way

Ooofff, that's good

How many DA players have 20 thunder hammer storm shield deathwing? 4 of whom have cyclones.... Personally I have 30 since they made up the core of my army... I actually hate 10th enough I've stopped playing completely. The rules feel like they are for children, and even things like terminators feel like they are hitting with floppy noodles instead of weapons.

@@dragonling748 Thuner Hammer + Storm shield is still a legal loadout, it's the basic Assault Terminator squad

I literally put mine together a week before the codex leaks. I held onto that kit for literally 12 years. Completely useless now

The loss of the command squad sucks, but it’s a stretch to say a huge chunk of models. Hammer/shield deathwing can be comfortably run as assault terminators, strikemasters as terminator captains and I would be utterly shocked if anyone would argue against using them for that.

@@viscounttudon68 it is a huge chunk though. because units need to be in squads of 5 now and you cant mix and match anymore. you cant use cyclone missiles on assault termies anymore. they also got rid of models like the deathwing apothecary. so like 40% of my deathwing units are unusable right now. its a huge mess and its pissed off a lot of deathwing players.

No you already got that codex. - a gw rep

Just play a different army man. We all need to move on lol

@@Optionvideo209 you mean "get a 3D printer or stop playing bcs this shi* will happen again and again"

@@Lordiisback it's a place to put it right. The very first thing I investigated was 3d printing when I got into 40k.

4th, I couldn't afford them when I started. This army has seen some huge hits every once and awhile (6th and 7th especially) but seeing half of my models get removed from the army list is tough.

Played them 2-4e. Was going to start them back up with this codex, but it looks like the ones I have will be "display only" now. I had been regretting getting rid of the massive army I once had 20+ years ago, at least that's eased now.

Editions are going to change always. Nothing you can do. Enjoy your battletech, but if you come back to OP dark angels, I'll just say I told you so.

@@user-hf6vf5gc5nspoken like a battered wife with Stockholm syndrome rofl

Its always been like this. Since 25 years ago DA & DW first released. DW have always been more expensiv Terminators with just better Moral. Infact they used to have fearless so you never toke moral tests. If you want to play a good Termi Army go GreyKnights. Even SW or just Vanilla Termi Armys are equal or better than DW caus your not stuck with a bad ICs

Same here, I’ll stick with them but they need fixing

Well the fun part is the pre-order box set came out before we knew the rules changes.

Remember you can’t charge the turn you use relic teleportarium.

@@TimeMaster0 that’s what the Inferno pistols are for ;)

@@toastle8005 but the chaplain doesn’t work on the pistols if the goal is to deepstrike 10 semi melta shots in there wouldn’t it be better to drop a captain in instead to at least get a free stratagem out of the deal before you lose the squad?

You were better off using kayvaan Shrike in a firestorm detachment tbh Rapid ingress end of opponent movement phase, make sure outside of 12" so can't be shot. Then your turn, move, inferno pistol @ +1S and then charge for 45 attacks with lethal hits. Can easily blend a multi wound unit and stomp another to dust.

@@TimeMaster0 yeah you right but i have vanguard vets made from company veterans so i use my old intorregator chaplain as jump pack. Rule of cool ;)

Except the lion he isn’t allowed In the deathwing 😂

Why Centurions and Aggressors?

@@dominikweber1346 dunno just says they have their own Centurions and Aggressors. Not everything in a first company is elites and transports apparently.

But the Codex says exactly wich units can get the keyword Deathwing. And there are no Centurions or Aggressors.

@@dominikweber1346 not rules. Fluff according to background that's everything they would have access to without plashing other Companies. Personally I not a fan of pure deathwing.

by the look of those data cards and points you maybe lucky to get them second hand pretty fast

It’s such a shame man been playing against my good buddies dark angles for years it’s always felt like we were equal with our indexes now god my csm would probably walk through anything he fields he might sell his armies he’s so mad

Until they take that out. And 30 hellblasters feels bad man to buy. We all have 10 but 30?

@@Optionvideo209 yeah I'd have to pick up 2 more boxes, but it does sound fun in a memeish way cuz they will just destroy some armies

Interesting fact for you: not accounting for strats or character support, 30 hellblasters can kill a total of 8 deathwing knights in a turn.

Might be the best way to play DA now, with Azrael on one, and two lieutenants, one with that gladius relic. That would actually be brutal af

@@khaledal-ghawas5568 the way I'm leaning is 3 apothecary, one with fire discipline, that way 2 of the squads get sustained 1 and you don't have to worry about overcharged as much since the apoth can bring em back

I didn’t even think about space wolves

I'm hoping they don't strip out long fangs, and all there first born stuff. They are in desperate need of range refreshes in a decent amount of cases. But removing them outright would be sad.

If they don’t sell a box that literally says the unit name, they will axe it. When they lost the Chapterhouse 3D printing lawsuit, the only thing GW could protect was the name of the unit. Sculptors can’t sell models with copyrighted GW names without takedown notices. So if they have a character or unit in the codex they don’t sell, they open the door for sculptors to sell those models. Once GW stops selling a firstborn model (Thunderwolf cav, Grey hunters, long fangs, etc) and only sells Primaris SWs, those units will be removed from the codex. They don’t want you using legacy units you bought, assembled, and painted - they want you buying new models each year.

Infiltrators override the current 3" drop rules so I'd assume they keep their bubble against this one too

Rules don't stack. You can never get a +2 to any modifier

No, because land raiders don't have deep strike.

​@@jamescheeseright6412 But in a Dark Angels army they get the Deathwing Keyword, which makes them an eligible target for the Relic Teleportarium stratagem.

@@davispeterson1876 that doesn't give the land raider deep strike though. It just allows a deep strike unit to arrive closer. You can't deep strike a land raider.

​@@jamescheeseright6412 Ah, sorry. I was under the impression it gave deep strike. If that's the case though, what's even the point of giving it the keyword? I don't think any of the other Deathwing-specific stratagems and rules are applicable either.

Uhh, Bolt action looks nice

@@THEHOLYCHAINSWORD it's on my list, I just need to convince some buddy to try it with me!

Star Wars Legion & Firefight by Mantic Games

@@phandaal I have seen a little bit of OPR and it looks good but I've been told that melee Vs range armies are not balanced at all (they say range obliterates melee troops 100% of the time)

Battletech is my big vice. I only still play 40k cause of my local game store doesnt run BT yet. (Slowly building up demo kits so i can lure people in lol)

I think the command squad is gone, like it's no longer in the game

In the lore they’re getting insanely strong, with the Lion back they’re really thriving

@@Seti12345 makes perfect sense, of course they're getting stronger in the lore and weaker on the tabletop even with a super low win rate lol in other detatchments they did OK of course but 1st company was just okay with the old data sheets right so that's gone.

​@@Seti12345 Shame lion returning just ruins the chapter I was interested in in the first place. I've loved DA for decades but with the heresy lore it really went down for me

They didn't remove both, they removed the Deathwing Command Squad because after the new Deathwing Knights release there will be no way to buy the necessary bits to build the Command Squad. The Ravenwing Command Squad still exists, they just changed it slightly. Now you can't add Black Knights to it but you can add the Command Squad to a Black Knight squad and get a massive bike squad

@@wakito64 Okay thanks for the correction there. It sucks I won't be able to use the DWCS boxes I got last month right before the new knights were revealed but i'll find some use for them someday soon. As for the ravenwing i'll definitely have to pick up a box or two when I expand the ravenwing section if my army.

Doesn't matter.

@@Optionvideo209 it does cause now you have to choose whether you want 1 damage weapon but more attacks and higher ap or 2 damage but less attacks and ap. If the maces hit on 3s then the swords would be better in almost every case

@@berettabeast9016 1 dmg and deathwing knights do not belong in the same sentence. Put it this way, if they are still 235 points then I want -2 ap and 2 dmg maces or ap 3 dmg 2 swords.

Yes

No amount of realistic points will make up for this tragedy, gw doesn't give a shit the models still sell.

Not really, it’s all very vague

"Cool lore" and the last couple edition codices are oxymorons.

Nope lol

@@Fortunes.Fool. It's pretty astonishing playing age of sigmar and the battletome for their newest army having a cool metanarrative, lots of interesting lore developments, original art, so much that I can hear about it on twitter from an account I don't even follow, because I don't play the army, and go "Oh wow that's actually really neat!" and then 40k, the thing that makes the most money, just gets kicked out with the bare minimum, even when a wholly new faction like votann comes out. I guess it's because they don't have to because they know fans will buy it anyway, but it's still like there's no passion there anymore. And their lack of passion affects me too, hah, I haven't cared much at all since guilliman came back

At this point just assume any kits that predate primaris marines are not long for this world.

tyranids got worse not better

where have any of those getting better? Crons ar just Wraith's and C'tan, realy dont like playing that half the Necron army is not viable or fun to play

u cant set up any reinf. untill turn 2. and for deep strike they have to be reinf. nothing can come in in turn 1 exept it has a special rule maybe re read the core rules for that point

Unless there is a FAQ outside of event-specific publications that I have missed, then I would offer you the advice you presented me. The following conclusion has been reached through citing the 10th Edition Core Book, with direct quotes for you to reference yourself. You are applying the restrictions to Strategic Reserves units to all Reserves units. Two very different keywords. For example, Deep Strike is a datasheet ability that explicitly places the unit with the Deep Strike ability into Reserves, not Strategic Reserves. This distinction is important when considering the wording of the Reinforcements section. Deep Strike does not have a restriction on what turn a Deep Strike unit arrives from Reserves on. 10th Ed Core Book, Core Rules section, page 43 heading: STRATEGIC RESERVES: entry; ARRIVING FROM STRATEGIC RESERVES, paragraph 1: "Units that are placed into Strategic Reserves are called Strategic Reserves units, and can arrive later in the battle during the Reinforcements step of any of your Movement phases except during the first battle round." 10th Ed Core Book, Core Rules section, page 39 heading: DEPLOYMETN ABILITIES: entry; DEEP STRIKE: "During the Declare Battle Formations step, if every model in a unit has this ability, you can set it up in Reserves instead of setting it up on the battlefield. If you do, in the Reinforcements step of one of your Movement phases you can set up this unit anywhere on the battle field that is more than 9" horizontally away from all enemy models." Bullet 1: "Unit can be set up in Reserves instead of on the battlefield." Bullet 2: "Unit can be set up in your Reinforcements step, more than 9" horizontally away from all enemy models" 10th Ed Core Book, Core Rules section, page 16 heading: REINFORCEMENTS, paragraph 3: "Details of how to set up Reserves units are described in the same rules that enabled the unit to be set up in Reserves. These rules will typically specify a distance away from all enemy models; whenever such a distance is specified, it always applies to the horizontal distance, even though normally you measure to and from the closest part of a model's base." Deep Strike is a specified datasheet ability and a separate rule from Strategic Reserves, so I again ask why are rules that allow units to enter from Strategic Reserves a turn earlier such a huge selling point? Thank you for you time, and I await your reply. @@Lordiisback

Maybe this Thursday

Wednesday/ Thursday

"seems like this rules team knows nothing about The First" -> "seems like this rules team knows nothing about the lore and the game"

The codex was clearly written a long time ago. They made an FAQ to let Azrael lead Company Heroes and the codex released months later doesn't have that option in the book

People complain about codex creep then complain when it doesn't happen. Bloody hilarious.

Yep. Hopefully people learn their lesson

Yeah the prices are nutty. Makes me wonder how "sustainable" the GW model is going forward

@@SurfaceDwellera lot of people are very happy to pay, the stores are always busy. They’re doing very well

​@@SurfaceDwellerIt isn't sustainable. They're leaning harder and harder on the whales, while failing to address how 3d printing is going to destroy their business.

​@@aniyn How? Most 3d printers just copy gw designs and I say that as a guy who owns a 3d printer

The lion helm has a shield generator in it

Did you watch the play on tabletop battle report? Yes the dice didn't favour the DA, but even when they did roll average, they achieved nothing. 5 DW knights and the lion took 3 turns to die to Mortarian, and that was the most exciting thing they did.

@@dragonling748 That is both sad and pathetic. Which battle report are you referring too? I did watch PlayOnTabletop between Tak and Tyco. I was shocked Tak did as well as he did.

@@CelticHound357 Thats the one, its was bad, the DA just couldn't get anything done.

@@dragonling748 It was bad. The dice were completely against Tak. But even as such, his army just appeared too weak and Tyco had some enhancement or strategy to counter.