I really appreciate this respectful discussion. I learned much from both speakers and their philosophies and callings. Thank you both.

“It’s when people are prepared to gut the constitutional order, that it becomes a three alarm fire.. and they’re ‘borrowing’ ideas and strategies from overseas autocrats..!” -David Gushee

How bizarre that a man feels the social pressure to have to state that he is a man before he can proceed with his comments.

You addressed so many things I need to know. I want the hope you have!

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.

Wish I could have joined in person! Thank you both for your work.

Thank you David and Kristin for this conversation. David, I appreciate your humour and gentle way of presenting information. I hope others learn to appreciate the value of personal contact with people who are not part of our subcultures but are vital to a full functioning democratic society.

The musician Darryl Davis spent the past 30 years talking with members of the KKK, convincing them to give up this hate and be peaceful. How can his approach to peace be expanded to how you communicate with authoritarian Christians, so they change their ways? I think of Jonah preaching to Nineveh. Who will take up his mantle for today? Or would it be better to disciple hundreds of Jonahs?

I get the motivation behind the question about how to interact on a level playing field with Christians who are more focused on eternal/ethereal issues. It's funny because I think David Gushee's disagreement is well-founded and accurate, so how can both be true? My amateur answer is influenced by Daniel Hummel's book The Rise and Fall of Dispensationalism. I think there are still strong vestiges of "Left Behind" thinking in our collective imagination and when it's more convenient to focus on "saving the soul" vs "tending to physical needs" folks can easily revert to the former. And then dance back and forth as it suits them. Hummel mentioned that Tim LaHaye concocted a new eschatological facet, where Christians can play a role in holding back the coming judgment, which went hand in glove with the Moral Majority. It reminds me of how Hitler's scapegoat had to be simultaneously weak and powerful - powerful enough to be perceived as a threat by aryans, yet weak enough for Hitler to subdue. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else understands/sees it this way.

The worst are full of passionate intensity while the best lack all conviction. W B Yeats

You're exactly right about that analogie. Authoritarians; end the game and start a new one😢

Should say organized reliegon ! That incompuses them all. 😊

This is just sad, esp when it started w the utter silliness of his pronouns.

We also need to deffend Democracy agaisnt Corruption in goverment from police to the presidentcy.as in Every body inbetween.take the dark money / big money out of ploitics. Make it against the law to recieve any thing but the wage the job pays. Other than Individual campain contrabutions. Only the with there name. And limit contrabutions. No bought eleted officials in and govermemt job. ❤

Billy Graham hosted crusades in Korea. I heard about South Korea, not much about North Korea or the time before their civil war. One thing I heard was Pyongyang was known as New Jerusalem because there were so many Christians. So what happened? Statistics show South Korea has a very low birth rate. Births outside marriage is extremely low. So from the outside it looks like the approach to have self control regarding sex outside marriage is fairly successful. This could be a legacy of American churches influencing them. How can they assist churches in the US and the churches here continue to influence them? There appears to be a shift from communism in former communist countries to authoritarian governments. Are we mistaken, has it always been authoritarianism and communist in name only? How does this affect how the west treats them?

The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. That was us gay people LGBT rainbow children crying out in the desert and David Gushee like some kind of hero angel popped out of the internet and popped up just at the time just at the right time I thank God for you David and Kristen 🙏😇🌈

Erdougon in Turkey just got voted out That's a good sign and they say that authoritarianism is out and they said that orbin is next. That's what they said. Who's they all the people on the message board in Turkey.

What the emperor was and the greatness as it seems was rome that state of mind which once was is now Europe being england as its central where emperor once was. Matthew 5-23 Revelation 17 Revelation 18

Christian is love thy naigbor ! Not to judge them ! To do otherwise is doing satans biding .it is not your job to judge if anything your job is to Educate others on reliegon. And not pass judgement on others beliefes. Organized reiligon is becoming like orgainized crime !

Reminds me of the Evangelical efforts in the 1860s to make the US Constitution more Christian as a response to the Confederate Constitution which used more obvious religious language.

Yes David very well said like popping mushrooms in the field. I always like on them to the lollipop kids on The wizard of Oz but poisonous mushrooms in between the field of popping mushrooms. I laugh out loud but I pray 🙏😇🏳️‍🌈

How has Harris becoming the Democrat presidential candidate changed things?

Roman 1 Romans 13 He has but a short time Does it say that you can be gay? I mean literally go read I hope you ly with conviction