Whatever they could possibly have achieved was achieved in the story. Sauron was defeated, the ring destroyed, Gondor restored, Saruman dead, all survivors lived peacefully under the rule of King Elessar. Also, to claim that Denethor got in the way of Boromir and Faramir is untrue. Had Boromir not attempted to take the ring from Frodo, the Fellowship would not have been scattered in a search for him, and they would have taken on the orcs as a team, before choosing to go either east or west. Boromir was corrupted though, through no fault of his own, but most definitely not Denethor's fault. The ring's lustful powers, by Sauron, was what stood in the way of Boromir and Faramir, and he would have rejoiced at the news, and it helped him to further twist Denethor to outright madness, and had Gandalf not taken lead afterwards, Gondor would have fallen, if not on the Pelennor, then at a later battle, for Frodo would have been spotted had they not marched on the Black Gate, deceiving Sauron into believing that Aragorn had the ring, and Pippin was the halfling who bore the ring to Aragorn. Boromir's death was purely Sauron's fault, and it could have proved disastrous, and nothing Denethor did could have prevented that.

@@AverageCommentor I'd argue that Boromir's decision to try taking the ring was influenced by Denethor's instructions to him though, don't you think?

@@ZCasavant. In the book, iirc Denethor had no idea that the ring was Isildur's bane from the dream (the reason Boromir went to Rivendell was to find an answer to a riddle from a recurring dream he and Faramir had), and so did not request that Boromir would bring the ring to Gondor. In the movie, Denethor was very much influenced by Sauron through use of the Palantir, and Boromir's lust for the ring would have happened regardless. Denethor's instructions were not the main reason he desired the ring. The ring corrupted him through the desire to do good. He was convinced that if he got the ring, he could march to Mordor and overthrow Sauron in battle (ironically, Aragorn does just that in a sense). Had Faramir gone instead, the Fellowship most likely would have remained, and half would've gone east and met Gollum, and the other half gone west towards Rohan. But, it was Boromir's idea that he himself would go instead (or Denethor's in the movie, under the influence of the Palantir), and a disastrous choice that was, but not Denethor's fault either.

@@AverageCommentor ok

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I would guess they didn't want to tread the same plotline with Theoden with 'ruler manipulated and befuddled by magic'.

If you pay attention to the scene where Denethor eats alone at the table, you will notice that both the wine cup and the plate with tomatoes appear to be made of tin. In the Middle Ages, tin was the factor responsible for several poisonings precisely because people consumed drinks and food through utensils made from this metal. Tomatoes, in turn, are acidic and, in contact with tin, an extremely dangerous oxidation process begins. Humans exposed for a short period of time to some organic tin compounds have experienced skin and eye irritation and neurological problems. Exposure to very high amounts may be lethal.

@@igor20igor that’s the film though I’m talking about a point missed from the books!

I know, I just wanted to comment a detail of the film, which I personally think it was very interesting.

Book Denethor wasnt twisted, just depressed. Sauron was explicity unable to dominate his mind like Saruman but he showed him images of mordors vast forces with the palantir, further feeding his depression and defeatism.

Someone really lit a fire under his ass

You might say ''He was on fire''' even....

Bro he ran like over 400m as the tomb was behind the citadel across a bridge so he just sprinted like a crazy man 😂

@@Shedgaming_40k and while being on fire...

@@gaynzz6841 guess denethor was the best sprinter in middle earth

Bcuz everyone knows he’s not fit

They probably have been waiting for a while to see that. Like the arse hole boss that everyone hates.

29:39 🐎 kick

Honestly he didn't deserve that death tho

Two guards watching: Guard on his first day be like: ' should we intervene?' Older guard: 'Let's just see how this plays out....'

Denethor hated (not "hate) Faramir and Faramir was raised (not " Faramir was raise")

Very well put

@lander77477 M’kay thanks for stopping by 🙄

I'd say this is more Boyens/Jackson/Walsh's vision (in this specific instance, have to clarify that) No disrespect to them but this film version of Denethor is not the "true" Denethor from the books.....I remember reading the RotK book just months before the movie came out since I was obsessed as a 12 year old at the time....can't remember much but Denethor was truly a good leader, maybe not a true king but the next best thing, never a callous asshole to Faramir iirc I know you didn't mean it by what you commented, you mentioned Tolkien himself and I felt it deserved mention

⁠@@TheBfutgregyeah it might not be the Tolkien Denethor but it was interesting nonetheless. I feel Peter did a crazy good job with the time he was given. Every scene poignant,visual subtleties to piece together the story,storylines that paid off. A real masterclass in storytelling. No Tom but that’s okay. Peter had good foundation to work with. 👍 I do wish Denethor’s story could have been told more..

It’s the very reason why I still can’t eat cherry tomatoes to this day

a very artistic scene: on one hand Faramir ringg to a battle, on other hand Denethor eating. And just the moment when the orcs release their arrows, he bites into that tomato. That's well done cinematography

Imagen having to wait every work day on some mountain in case someone wants to invite Rohan

Dementor was the last beacon to be lit

To think Christopher Lee was supposed to be Gandalf and ended up as Saruman. Its surreal to think about. Peter Jackson sort of screwed him over because Christopher was actually promised by Tolkien himself that if a movie was to be made, he would get the role as Gandalf. Jackson also did the audience and Christopher the disservice of cutting Saruman's death scene from the theatrical version which is just crazy. It all ended well though, because he pulls off Saruman absolutely flawlessly. And by the way, no shade at Ian McKellen, he plays Gandalf to a Tee and at this point i have trouble imagining anyone else playing the role, but it would have been interesting to see how the movie looked if their roles were reversed. When it comes to Heroes, i must disagree though, they aren't easy to pull off. You should look up the casting choices for Aragorn and what we could have ended up with if not for Viggo Mortensen (whom absolutely saved the role btw). the guy who was cast in the role before Viggo took over was awful to the point where the other cast members (i believe it was McKellen who did it first) actually had to pull him aside and genuinely ask if he was even interested in the role.

Wrong..he loved both his sons..he was under saurons influence !!

You underestimate the power of loss and the influence of the Palantir.

Faramir actually did very well in Battle, according to the books. It is not entirely certain, why Boromir went to this journey instead of Faramir. I suspect that Boromir wanted all the glory, but what glory was there to expected? He could not know in advance that the ring was found, before it was shown to him at Elrond´s place. This is the one thing where I question Tolkien´s story: Faramir, the "lesser" son (according to Denethor) should have been sent on this "quest" to meet Elrond...

@@tomtom34b That;s because you read but does not understand the book. Denethor sent Boromir because he believed Faramir is too close a student of Gandalf is. He does not know it is about the ring of power, but he has an idea it is. Hence he sent the more "loyal" son who will favor Gondor than follow the advice of some wizard. Perhaps you also did not understand why Denethor mistrust Galdalf so much?

maybe read the books instead, denethor in the movies is utterly garbage thanks to jackson

The movie even did some things better than the books, IMO. The ride of Rohan in the movie was far beyond the book's version.

30:03-30:08 that’s right.

Indeed

Thank you auto translate. I’m happy to know what those like me in far lands believe about such good literature.

Everyone just forgetting that he told Faramir he would rather be died in Boromir's place

Na he was farked

@@imisioluwalawal2945 cry about it

@@footrot17 cry more about Denethor the Great

It would have complicated the plot in the movie as Saruman already is the one unintentionally/tragically corrupted by the use of a palantir. I know it’s in the books but putting the plight of the steward of Gondor at the same level as the plight of Saruman would’ve been difficult to pull off. It was easier just to make his character a POS. It is nonetheless interesting that he used a one of the seeing stones.

Lol no. Denethor's will had been absolutely shattered by his battle with Sauron in the palintitri. Undoubtedly Denethor has a strong will.... for a *man* , but remember Sauron is literally an ark angel. No one other than the Valar have a stronger will than him.

@@thenovicegamer007 what is an ark angle?

@@johnrayordas An ark angel is a very powerful and senior ranking angel in Christianity/Islam who commands God's armies. They are similar to the Great Maiars like Sauron and Eonwe.

@@thenovicegamer007 but is it an acute angle? or an obtuse angle?

@@johnrayordas Ah. I see my mistake now. Stupid me 🤦🏼

For 30 seconds he can then feel the hell inside whole his body

He was a mighty figure in the books

Tell me you haven't read the books without telling me you haven't read the books....

@@thenovicegamer007 sometimes I go into these comments to find stuff like this lol

@@thenovicegamer007 I mean, they are literally commenting under a video about the movies, so what the hell do you want. not everyone is such a high iq scholar as yourself, novice gamer

@@blueshit199 Thank you for thinking that I am a great scholar.

?

Then Eru bless your mother.

Denethor had his own palantir and it lied to him, telling him Mordor would win. Sapping his faith and strength and driving him mad.

Gandalf was not at all satisfied to see him die. He tried his utmost to prevent him, but Denethor willingly burnt himself, having thought that the war was doomed and that death was inevitable anyway, due to Sauron poisoning his mind with the Palantir. The movies paint a really bad picture of Denethor. Satisfaction in the death of somebody is not something that fits within the Lord of the Rings story at all.

why wouldn't Gandnalf the White posses Denethor's mind the same way Saruman did with Theoden?

@@blueshit199 bc Gandalf isn’t evil.

@@aprilina2580 he takes life to do good, mind control to send a message to Rohan and prepare for war early wouldn'tbe as bad as, say, setting Denethor on fire in front of his son and letting him run a mile to jump off the Citadel

@AverageCommentor It’s so funny how all yall think you’re literary experts. There are folks in these threads who have been reading these books longer than you’ve been alive. The ONLY ppl who can comment on “what fits with the story” and actually speak with authority are Tolkien’s kin. I read the same books you did and came to a much different conclusion but I don’t speak on it as if it’s canonical bc the truth is I don’t know. Neither do you bookie. Good talk ✌🏾

Extended version

They didn't retake it but it was a suicide mission.