HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO TEACH YOU THIS LESSON OLD MAN!!??

In Kelgorath's defense, he did come back for several rematches with The Young Wolf, certified godslayer and prime champion of the Light. There are literal Hive Gods who managed less than that.

Slipped on a muddy hill and got my pants covered in mud in front of a bunch of people, so this video helps in knowing that there’s a bigger loser out there besides me, thanks Byf!

I believe the Taken Cabal from the old Lake of Shadows strike is a good example of how effective local Taken leadership can be.

I see your kellgorath and I raise you Taniks, went from being a "random side quest" in a strike to having his own raid.

In my own defense for Kelgorath, I really like how he’s basically our guardians antagonist/nemesis. What I mean is that regardless of how many times we kill him, he keeps on coming back again and again, changing and getting better to basically fight us while also serving Xivu. It makes him feel unique

My theory: he’s Xivu’s crude version of the Murder Battery Savathun made. He keeps provoking us, we enact war upon him in fighting him, and in doing so empower Xivu.

Kelgorath is currently the only reason I'd return from my Destiny retirement before or after TFS. I am cheering for that dude since his second appearance.

I will say, the title "Doomed Petitioner" certainly fits Kelgorath to a tee. Wouldn't it be hilarious if just ahead of Heresy's launch, the Bungie social media team (what's left of it, anyway) decides to tag Byf in a preview with an eyes emoji just to be cheeky?

I think the "knife" in each of the grimoire and lore is the power given to each troop. [sideways] means teleport side to side, [you cannot find me] is the captain's blight power, [this place is mine] is vandal shield, so now this troop-be it kelgorath or someone else-can now take on their own

I do kinda like the idea of Kelgorath finding his own strength and becoming a major antagonist; kind of like a classic hero's journey for him where he starts out as a down and out loser and gradually rises to becoming a major force in Sol. It would be an interesting twist to the usual story we hear with the Hive

The thing we need to remember is that we only see Kelgorath when he is sent after things that put him up against us. Us players can't really lose canonically in the kind of encounters we've had with him. If they ever let him do stuff that doesn't involve fighting players, we might have a chance to see what he's really capable of. Kelgorath may be a meme to us, but he could still be a nightmare to someone less powerful or plot relevant.

okay can we just put kelgorath in the meme area with taniks already the guy wont give up he should be called kelgoratht he insane cause he is insane to keep coming after us

For the Final Shape Raid we need to have either Taniks or Kelograth as a boss in the raids. We gotta have one of these absolute morons who keep coming back after we put them down half a dozen times.

The one thing of note for me in terms of Kelgoraths' progression is how not only his story but his model has evolved over time. The first time we see him he seems like little more than your average knight, but every time he comes back he looks more and more different. He might not become 'king,' but to me it is clear there is some sort of end goal in mind for him.

Kelgo's back, back again. Kelgo's back, tell a friend.

Hear me out right.... we should hire both him and taniks to deal with the witness and savathun. They are both seemingly impossible to permanently put down, too stubborn to choose a different profession, and even pick fights with opponents that have already put them in the dirt multiple times. If we give them both telesto The Thiccness™ doesn't stand a chance lol

See, the thing I link to Kelgorath isn’t the titles in the lore tab itself, but the name of the weapon: Doomed Petitioner. Truly, Kelgorath has done some petitioning, and MAN is he DOOMED.

Maybe death is apart of his sword logic. His own death strengthens him each time he dies

So thoughts on who's being talked to or what's going on in the Doomed Petitioner's lore. 1) Its orders to the Taken Knight boss in the Coil. Most simple and straight forwards. 2) Mara Sov did confirm she tried to command a taken. This could've been her attempt 3) Toland could finally be making a move to gain the Taken King's mantle by making an army. 4) It could be Kelgorath, and this is his thought process after getting severed from Xivu's control. Not wanting to be the taken king, but more an instinctual need to spread and take.

I'm all for Bungie giving this guy a personality, he's been around so long and I wouldn't mind him being the next big Hive Threat.

Cant wait for taniks and kelgorath to team up and die again in the final shape

This guy is making taniks look tame.

Kelgorath suffers from the same issue as Xivu Arath. Without any victories against the player, any threat these enemies might pose feels hollow. Even without the context of Forsaken, Shadowkeep, Arrivals or the entirety of year 4 Savathûn immediately establishes herself by wielding the Light through Ghosts when none of our enemies have managed to do so.

I think there was one thing missed here, the original Lake of Shadows strike, where some rando taken centurion was not just running local taqken, but was still Taking. So even if this isn't kelgorath's bid for King status, it could still be his return to continue to Take in a local sense

Just had a shower thought about this today way after watching the video initially, but does anyone remember that taken knights were originally designed to have the ability to take other enemy combatants? Since these grimoire card esc lore tabs are typically explaining the new ability a taken receives upon becoming taken, this to me reads a lot like the taken knights receiving that originally intended ability to take! It would be so cool if bungie implements this, and this is the way they were telling us early!

I really don't get all the hate you have for the guy dude is going up against the slayer of 2 of his gods and still going. My man is on the dark soul's grindset. Byf just be hating.

New game theory just dropped in the final shapes raid Taniks and kelgorath will do a fusion dance to become “tanorath- the undying ones” and will proceed to kill the witness and fanum tax the traveler

Anyone else feel like he's the knight we fought back on Titan that wouldn't die?

The Abomination at 27:12 that didn't give a single fuck about you had me laughing til I cried.

Best content idea ever. New dungeon. Fallen pirates and Taken enemies assaulting some thing we need to protect or obtain. Final boss room sees Kelgarath appear through a taken blight on the left, Taniks break through a wall on the right and us in front. As we ready for the fight of our lives Kelgarath charges Tankis striking him down with his sword as Tankis absolutely nukes Kelgarath and they both fall at our feet. Exp appears and chest pops. Boss fight over in the cutscene.

The thumbnail made me burst out laughing. Kelgorath is turning out to be the next Taniks, it seems.

I feel the most compelling 'evidence' for the doomed petitioner being about Kelgorath is at 9:25 and 13:54. In the thin precipice lore tab, Kelgorath says "I need no blade; I am wielded", and in the doomed petitioner lore tab, potentially Kelgorath is told to "wield himself" but that could be coincidence. You could argue that the name 'doomed petitioner' is a reference to Kelgorath petitioning for another chance to serve and how he's seemingly constantly doomed to fail, though this seems like its grasping at straws, I don't know many other taken knights that could be referenced as a doomed petitioner if the the name of the gun isn't just something cool the devs liked.

I about died when byf said "yeah Kelgorath go bye bye" 😂😂

6:18 “if you consider failure experience” - xivu arath “I consider experience experience” - Kelgorath

Why is no one expecting Keksis, the Betrayed, to rise up and take his place as Taken King? We all know he is in the shadows... plotting...

I mean you've got to admire a creature of persistence and adaptation, I'm kinda rooting for him to find his own way (even if that way inevitably crosses the guardians again)

I don't know how they'd fit into this example, but another Non-Hive power that had the power to control Taken and seemingly was able to Take was Quaria, Blade Transform.

Kelgorath and Taniks are the gonna be the other 2 bosses in The Final Shape's raid, I'm calling it

I have a bit of a wild theory, what if the taken is actually something natural? What if the witness didnt make the taken but used a power that does. If so then this could give more credence of something that is there to take over the taken. Like a creature whos natural habitat is the taken realm. Just a wild idea but thought of it since the sea of screams and other paracausal powers are all technically natural, thought maybe we see the taken as another natural Paracausal power and not something made from the witness. Edit: And to note, we dont know that much about the Taken, What we do know are these: - Taken lose their will and need a stronger will than their own to be controlled. - Taken have their own Realm as far we understand. - Taken can transport entire planets into their realm - Taken are a Hive mind in a sense, with the primary mind being the one with the strongest will (Riven was having Oryx's memories when she was taken) I think that is all we know so far. also a point Byf missed, we have the Taken Cabal Phalanx "Grask, the Consumed" in Lake of Shadows that was keeping the taken organised too.

That “take take take…” reminds me of either the Vex or, more so, The Nine in the old Trials of The Nine weapons lore.

Taniks, seeing Kelgorath come back to life again and again: "YOU STOLE MY WHOLE FUCKING FLOW!"

It kinda of remembers Aatrox lore from Lol. He loses, but keep rising, getting stronger each time

The biggest disagreement I have with Byf is his treatment of my boy Kellog. He's done better than most villains that just get clapped by us once and that's it. He's the most interesting Hive in a long time. I want him to rise up and become the new leader of the Hive, disappointed in the old Hive gods who were too obsessed with their family drama to lead the Hive as the true winnowers of the universe. Imagine him rising up after the death of Xivu, becoming the new Taken King and bringing the remaining worm gods under heal. It would be awesome to see a Hive unrelated to the original family take the lead, him giving a speech about how the Oryx failed, Savathun betrayed them and Xivu was a fraud would be awesome

The wording and speech patterns of Doomed Patitioner and the taken grimoir cards remind me of listening to Toland the Shattered.

I see Kelgorath taking Oryx’s title as the navigator rather than the title of Taken King, acting a guiding power for the taken in search of leader.

How cool would it be if during the final shape the guardian takes up the role of taken king and commands the taken against the witness Imagine fighting along side are taken (After killing oryx, the guardian was supposed to take the mantle)

Mara Sov. For some reason the “must” line makes me think of her, and I believe she’s been trying to control them in recent times.

Great Video and what a blast from the past touching on Malok he was awesome🔥🔥 I like to think either it will be a new hive prince or possibly even Malok (I’m hoping it’s him now after this video😆) attempting to control the Taken as a proxy for Xivu, primarily due to that she’s lost a large portion of her power. That or as you stated it could be an ancient power or being of the darkess that has always been there. Especially now most of the strong willed leaders of the Taken have been removed it maybe that this being is able to get through more easily perhaps or is reaching out.👀🤷🏻‍♂️ I love theorising with the lore in this game and I love your channel it’s always been my go to! Keep up the great work Byf and have a great day!🔥

I interpreted the lore tab of Doomed Petitioner as Savathun mocking Kelgorath for his failures and his situation, and the last part is a dare, "Go ahead. Try to claim the Taken throne. Succeed or fail, I will be amused."

Great as always

The last line to me sounds like the syntax of a Vex. So I first suspected Quria, as there was talk at the time that it hadn't actually been destroyed and had teleported away. But the Grimoire Card for the Taken Knight confirms that this lore is talking about a knight, which suggests it might be Kelgorath. A petitioner is also somebody who asks for action from a court, whose court it refers to is anybody's guess, could be Oryx, or Mara.

I recently got into reading lore from gear like sparrows and ships and other stuff, and I like the Dinas Emrys one, the exotic sparrow from season one. Zavala gives the consensus that Ariadne Gris' sparrow is: cool.

I thought the doomed petitioner text was a derisive from Savathun towards Xivu, because she had previously stated that Xivu was just a knight on the chess board.

Always wondered what happened to the hive generals in that one strike from Destiny 1, the one on oryx's flagship were we go into the prison and take out some hive commanders that were trying to rize up. It could be them, though i like the idea of kelgorath finally getting fed up with the hive gods failing him and taking over a empty throne, would be nice if it was our first real loss were we win the battle but lose the war as he still takes the throne at the end.

the line that says you must take take take take feels a lot like how the nine communicate

Honestly the whole time you were talking, the only guy I could think of was Malok. Devestator of Sol is something i'd only say about something powerful or notable, not some random knight. Still could be Kelgorath or someone else though.

What if the Taken Blight itself is sentient? Think Radiolaria but metaphysical. If so, it's possible then that it's beckoning Kelgorath to do its bidding by taking (no pun intended) the King's mantle and command the Taken as a whole again.

Thanks Advanced,GG

Love the story and the lore

I definitely wouldn't rule out Kelgorath being the subject of the Doomed Petitioner lore tab, but I'm thinking more about the voice speaking to him as well as the Taken in the D1 Grimoire, and I have a couple ideas. The first is that the voice shown is one of the Worm Gods, since we still have 3 that are unaccounted for, although I don't believe that we can presently figure out which one specifically. My other idea is that it could actually be Oryx, since Kelgorath used a shard of Oryx's sword to become Taken, and maybe a vestige of him remains within it. There's something else to point out about the newer tab though, and that it might be two voices and not just one, with the bracketed statements potentially coming from someone separate from the primary voice within the tab, although I've got no idea of who either could be in that case.

Kelgorath always gave me Ultra Magnus vibes. He’s a faithful and valiant follower, but has no aspirations of becoming a leader. I find him endearing in a way.

Xivu Arath: YOUR EITHER LYING OR YOUR STUPID" Kelgorath: "IM STUPID IM STUUUIPD!!!!"

I do wonder if the remaining worm gods could still have influence. Considering oryxs power to take came from the death of a worm god. They have taken a back seat but I'd say they are still absolutely a threat that shouldn't be forgotten about.

Dope theory Byfe, I didn't even know Savathun had a kid. That's who my money is on for succession!

Honestly, I saw the Doomed Petitioner lore tab, and to me at least, it screamed The Nine. The brackets and the repeated “take take take…” text really sounds like some weird, crazy thing they’d do.

Everybody gangsta until Kelgorrath and Taniks team up.

Maybe he's gonna be in TFS raid? We could get some cool taken armour then.

I have a theory for the Voice in the Taken; the Worm Gods seem to still live on in death, just like Ahamkara. I think this voice is the remnant of Akka; we know some of Akka's bone/exoskeleton/whatever is still around; it's orbiting Saturn.

I wonder if Taniks and Kelgorath have a fight, who would win ? And who has the power to put the other one to death and let it never return again ?

It somehow only just hit me that Kelgorath is the new age tanniks

Byf in the video: "HIS HAIR, WHACK, HIS DRIP, WHACK, HIS POWER, WHACK, ME I'M TIGHT AS F-"

Imagine he comes back and there's a small chance that when he charges the player he yells "Byyyyyyyf!" in response to the amount of times you've called the poor guy a "loser" lmao

Kelgorath is going to stick around long enough to be one of our allies in Destiny 3.

My first idea about the syntax in the lore tab and grimoire card is that it is inherent to the very act of Taking, and that might be the cause of the similarities. It might be some ritualistic cornerstone. But the possibility of it being someone or something that has been interwoven with the tales of the Taken from the beginning did put another thing to mind. Particularly with the 'take take take take', which sounds a little like a logic loop. Could Quria have survived?

Well if Kelgorath becomes the new taken King I could see him becoming a raid boss And if that happens then we will have another example of a Joke of a Character becoming a raid Boss Im looking at you Taniks

I always like to think of Byf as a warlock holding seminars on a frequent basis. Like a professor of sorts.

Kelgorath is the perfect example of being simply a loyal company man

So we've had small drops here and there that there could be Void Lords, things that come from the Void that the Traveler came from. Now that was when we took the Unveiling book at face value but now we know there is infact some truth in it, & I wouldn't be surprised if what's in the dark calling out to the taken are the Void Lords that stayed in the void. It could also be the Giant Crow Oryx took that is the size of Moons.

Savathun had a son? That shocked me so much. Is there anything on his story, would love to see it?

I really like that you used the judgment of kelgorath for most of the gameplay. Very fitting choice haha

Doesn't the "knife shaped like [sideways]" portion refer to their ability to slice thru reality in order to teleport? Since knife/sword logic refers to ontological abilities with blade imagery/terminology.

I'm glad that you mentioned that he is changing (let's call it more "evolving by failure") and that the narrative team at bungie could do sth amazing with him. My thoughts are that he has an unbreakable will to live and no matter how many times we'll kill him, he's going to come back and that (and the strong will for revenge) could make him a hive god. Not a specific one like the taken king but one hive god, maybe the ultimate hive god who knows. Because look at oryx, savathun and xivu they we're all scared to die that's because they have their throneworlds or other plan b up their sleeves. Kelgorath is getting resurrected the whole time but on what purpose? Was that savathuns plan to create almost the best leader for the hive? Maybe. Or he was working on his plan and was waiting to get everything he needed. He now has a shard of the taken king blade, he became a warmachine for the war god and outplayed the goddess of trickery and cunning by becoming that. When you look at him from that point of view, well he is a bada**. And who knows maybe bungie has been working on his character and story almost as long and the same way the savathun.

Kelgorath literally saying "I didnt hear a bell" every couple of seasons

Byf, afaik all ascendant hive have thrones. So the members of the court of Oryx, and bosses like Golgorath and the Warpriest, they all have thrones. I have always assumed that Golgorath and such have had their thrones subsumed into the Dreadnaught, so when we defeat them in the ascendant portion of the raid they are done for good.

Alright Bungie, here's how to make kelgorath a propperly intimidating threat in 3 easy steps: -un-take him, so hecan act of his own volition -as we're about to deliver the killing blow to Xivu Arath, make him step in and end her himself, letting him take all of her tithes -make him the god of death. Every time we encounter him, he must be noticably stronger, with mechanics that resemble that of a dungeon or raid, regardless of what activity he's actually in.

(Sorry for length. Just thorough with my thoughts is all.) One thing that I always thought about is WHY do we assume that Oryx was the first to use the power to Take? The Witness's pursuit of the Traveler for billions of years (if the wiki description "eon" is the scientific use of it.) The connection to The Deep seems more like a space wherever the beings of The Deep reside. The worm gods that allegedly came from The Garden, Akka and all. The pathways the Awoken use and travel I think might have been made by the worms tunneling throughout what reality was before the Traveler and Veil split. The powerful beings in the Ascendant Plane were hit with a paracasaul Darkness wave that trapped kinda washed them into "The Deep" which is what's on the other side of The Veil. (A wave like the Darkness version of when the Traveler sent a wave through the Universe and alerted the Witness's pyramid fleet. The Deep is what's on the opposite end of the Veil, where the powerful Ascendant beings whisper through the cracks in reality to manipulate others for their own end. The Witness is promised change, but the reality is they're being manipulated to build a path for the Ascendant beings to cross back over with the help of Veiled Ahamkara within the Deep. The trick will lead to the largest Veiled Ahamkara feeding to open the pathways to them. Us raising Taranis and Riven's offspring to be more like Taranis and them being used to help protect ourselves down the line from Veiled Ahamkara. The Ahamkara we're used to affect the material world to bring it into being. Veiled Ahamkara deal with consciousness, the Veil, and are the origin of Taking others consciousness to bring their will into being. Okay, done.

What about the Thai Emperor Raven that was Taken? I know its probably a long shot as there is nothing much on what happened to the Thai Emperor Raven other then it being Taken at some point by Oryx and not really being mentioned after that. It would be interesting to see but probably hard to pull off

My idea of this lore entry is that this is Mara Sov speaking trying to control the taken that was lost she mentioned in the seasonal activity hence the insistence of "take" at the end as she is trying to impose her will but doesn't know exactly how and the text being similar to the other taken entries is just a form to imply someone is commanding the Taken. The taken in question could be any in my opinion, not necessarily Failgorath- I mean Kelgorath.

I believe when we actually get to see xivu ingame is also gonna be the time we put kelgorath down for good

What comes to mind with this lore entry is not that there is some new Taken Commander in the shadows, but rather this is the default inner voice that dominates the mind of a Taken being when it is not being directly controlled by someone else. The repetition of the word "Take" at the end is completely feral, the natural instincts of a wild animal without a master. We know that the Taken are basically just animals when there is no commander to coordinate and direct their efforts. This passage sounds to me like what would be going on inside the head of such a leaderless Taken, rather than some kind of call to arms for one Taken, like Kelgorath, to take up the mantle.

Byff calling Kelgorath a loser is the funniest shit i've heard all day tbh

Is the next parts of "the story of clovis bray" still on the schedule?

I think if during The Final Shape, Echoes, and Revenant they spend in the background building him up I can see him as a major threat within Heresy or in another piece of D2 content

I wonder if the Taken Tai Emperor Raven is still out there. They could be suitable to have a strong enough will to control the taken.

Kelgorath be like: "I AM NOT GIVING UP AT ALL!!"

Way I imagine a typical Throneworld would be more akin to an apartment; a 'cave' in Ascendant Space with a calmer atmosphere or akin to a campsite a la Dark Souls where they can manifest again from there. As for Kelgorath, the next step he could Take would be to seek out an artifact of Savathun, as the 'Will of the Taken' demands he Take - assuming it is him and not another. Still, his blade has an edge from Xivu, and he has Taken a piece of Willbreaker - perhaps he can Shape his own Will? Or, worse still, he may yet be driven by Oryx; a Warframe after a fashion, fated to fail, but only just. He may not rise to Take control, but if he was to be found at the King's corpse I foresee him at least finding himself, or becoming a proxy to the King's Will if it ever finds him. Oryx isn't home. Nor is his Worm. If Kelgorath finds either, he will become a knight in their service, mayhaps his helm reforged to have the same horns as the King, as to represent him and not feign kingship? It'd make a modicum of sense. Still, the 'Will of the Taken' - that which speaks of knives shaped like [REDACTED] - could be the same presence that wrote Unveiling and Inspiral as it uses the same knife-shapes syntaxery. It could be a vestige of Akka, for that Worm God learned or was taught the medium of how to Take by the Witness, a proxy of the Witness, or Rhulk via veiled chatter. I'd say that either way, Kelgorath could merely recur as a Taken Knight with a Darkblade's axe and helm - as to represent how he has diminished, but kept his earnings. Or, how about this? He could wind up coming to the Drifter and swearing himself off to him to try and reclaim his own will while offloading the voice asking him to Take a knife (DESPERATELY, I might add, given how it doesn't give him a specific Shape but seems to demand it in the same way as SIVA's overriding directive). Another possibility is he could revisit locations he's fallen at, trying to recover his own will by recounting his history and retracing his steps. Who knows.

It would be nice to see him become the take king but still under the control of a stronger Hive or even unknown Wormgod.

Kelgorath is a good show of how it doesn’t matter if you’re powerful, if you come up against the player you’re gonna lose, if there was lore of him going up against other guardians he’d surely beat them but instead every mission he’s sent on is against us, so he has to lose because video game

I’m a little surprised Byf didn’t point out the Taken Knight grimoire tab instead of the Thrall’s. The context of “There is a knife for you. It is shaped like [no more fear],” and the Doomed Petitioner’s Flavor Text of “No more fear,” is definitely an intentional callback. I agree it’s almost certainly not Kelgorath, but someone correct me if I’m with my reasoning: once we’ve defeated a Taken it hasn’t reappeared, right? I was under the imprimpression it was permadeath but if there’s examples of the contrary I’d love to know.