Thank you. There are some more to come - when I get the time. :)

Thanks - how do you control the motors?

Pleased to hear of your happiness - safe riding!

This is appreciated - good luck.

Thank you.

Good news! Keep it coming :)

Thank you I'm working on a follow-up at present.

Factory machinery always has large red safety switches and I really would not to ride any machine without the break cut-off's connected. These things have more power than a struggling (panicking) human can control. How convenient do you find your throttle control to be?

@@richard_wenner it was working well. I ended up buying a rear 750w kit and taking off the front motor because I couldnt fit the disc brake calipers on the bike in question. I'd rather have disc brakes instead of the older ones

@@rlanesports Discs are preferred - my braking distance is pathetic - given the weight of the battery and my 22 stone. I've had to commission special wheels for a recumbent I've designed.

What motor have you selected? Let me know how you get on.

@@richard_wenner kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eql4q5aHvamwqGQ.html this is the first gear motor, now im planning to add another 24v gear motor to the left rear side, since i don't have any welding skill so no welding for me, also bmx not the best bike for this type of conversion :)

Thanks for your response!

Thank you! Appreciated

Glad you enjoyed it and now you can back to real life :) With a little oil I've just recorded 52mph!! Will have to calm it a little.

Well thanks for your reply and comments. Makes it worthwhile. Happy cycling.

Glad it was of help. More to come thi smonth.

Wow - you are not asking for much! Before I answer - how are your eight motors configured?

Do I normally waffle then? I can't think of a reason why the pedelecs can't be shared - so long as you take note of the possible polarity problems. The inputs may be single ended. Measure the voltage at each disconnected input first. Connecting two similarly charged batteries is okay - they will balance - so long as they are of the same specification. Try connecting them when they are on low charge and then charge the pair together. A better method would be to couple them using large diodes in a bridge.

Thank you.

It will be interesting to see what effect this has on the balance. I played with setting the front hub at 250w and the rear at 1500w - not again. Let me know how you get on.

Thank you!

Ah, but I'm an old man lacking your dexterity. Interesting to know that it works for you. How do you deal with the breaking?

Ah just an innate natural talent and perspicuity but seriously thanks for your reply - that I have only just discovered. There is more due in October.

Good luck. I'm working on the next one that attempts to monitor the total energy/efficiency change over time. Stay safe. R

Merry Christmas Richard! I spent some time today in my studio working on my all wheel drive electric bike. Thanks to your great instruction it works perfectly! You have been a great help to me. Thanks!

@@timabbott2514 Pleased to have been some help. Happy New Year and Happy Cycling :)

Hi Richard, I built my bike last Winter and it screams! Mine is 2000 watts with a 20 amp hour battery. Thank you for your insight on the wiring! I would love to send you pictures.

Thank You

Thank you.

Regenerative braking is a recurring topic option too.

It worked for me :)

Thank you.

Are you trying to drive 2 motors from a single 3 phase hall sensor. I don't quite understand your set up.

@@richard_wenner no just a single motor to a vesc. For my motor the hall sensors are labeled A= green B= yellow C= blue, I also have a green, yellow and blue phase wire, so what I am asking is if I connect the phase wires let’s say in green, yellow, blue order should my hall sensor match that connection on the controller or can it be different

Ziad, Sorry for the delay in replying. I've only just discovered a huge back log of these things. I'm afraid that without more information. Can't you go back to the guy and run over his children until he provides a satisfactory repair?

mmm I've been looking at trikes and cargo bikes - there are some interesting designs kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hNmfrbmYm6eygoU.html

let me know how you get on

Thank you.

Thank you.

Sorry for the delay in replying. I've only just found this massive pile in my inbox. Sorry too for the poor answer. I'd have to see the spec for the controllers to make any serious comment.

When you say not synchronised - what do you mean exactly? In this set up as you twist the throttle both wheels should turn. The only 'joint' setting would be their rotation rate.

Cheers :)

If you have connected the two at the throttle then you have a very small signal wire connecting the two batteries. I hope nothing goes wrong for you. Thanks for the feedback and happy cycling.

No PAS, no pedalling - spot on!

@@richard_wenner - my next project, at least the plan is, to build a sort of 4WD, mini one-seater, golf cart - with solar charging. Maybe you can tell me if it's possible to wire the solar panel so the power generated gets routed to, and used by, the motor (supplemented by the battery) - but also automatically switches to charging the battery when the motor isn't running (like at stop lights or when parked)?

@@DwayneShaw1 Unless you have incredibly bright sunlight or massively large or super efficient solar panels the differential between power in and power out is likely to be so large that it is best to separate and protect the battery charging circuit from the motor driving circuit.

It is just easier if the two are the same.

Cheers :)

Thank you.

Hi Saul. I always wanted to implement regenerative braking (in fact looked at trying to compress a gas in the frame as a power storage mechanism) BUT the cost and complications involved in trying to recover the minimal amount of energy (even with a fat git like me) is just really not worth the effort. Others may differ in their views of course.

It's not clear as the wires are white/grey (sorry) see 6:19 in HD - that should be clear?

Thank you.

Mike of course I have 10 seconds to spare - it's great learning new things. I'm sorry that I've only just seen your posing and apologise for the delay in getting back to you. (and I Do like the sir bit). The next part of your question ' if someone was running' makes it sound as if you are asking for a friend being too embarrassed to ask for yourself but I digress. I had a quick look at the log on my bike that has two 1.5k hubs and they peak at a combined 28A going up hill with the throttle full open. This causes the batteries to warm up - even though they are fairly well ventilated on a reasonable heat sink. Temperature alone will effect the performance of the batteries. At the end of a long run where the battery voltages are falling I've experienced a form of motor 'hunting' as a warning of low power. BMS should control over and under voltage conditions. Either way the lifetime of the batteries are maximised by maintaining them between 20% and 80% limits. Do try to maintain these limits, where possible. I hope this answers your question.

Hi Rhian. Welcome to my rabbit hole. I began initially from first principles doing all of the homework* but was then diverted as I did a quick impromptu search through e-bay. There was Roland selling this bike. 45 minutes left to the of the sale and he was less than 30 miles away. I assumed that this was a message from the e-gods and snaffled it up. This was a quick and dirty route and I had something to play with inside 12 hours. The rest of this journey is a little like the Irish joke where the answer was "If I was going there I would not start from here.". :) I would not advise a motor (anywhere) driving a conventional gear cassette. Therein many loading and mechanical problems lie. The brilliant thing about electrical motors is that they have a huge torque at low speed ( lancet.mit.edu/motors/motors3.html#tscurve ). My gearing issue was at the other end where I would like to pedal at high speed (I really do need the exercise) and it would help with enormously with range. Pot holes and the need to carry loads securely lead me to favour trikes. There is a massive amount of research and money going into motor design and production at the moment. We are spoilt with choice for the components around at the moment. I've designed microprocessor designed wheelchairs (with 5 motors) in the past but it would be a fools errand not to use the dirt cheap controllers coming in from the far east I'm afraid.

Ah - funny you should mention that I was only enquiring about the modifications to the controllers that would enable this BUT I'd feel happier using two batteries in this instance - I think.

I will use split cable, 1 throtle to two controller

Lol, Had the same idea! I have a BBSHD running for a few years now. Am interested in adding a 500w Bafang hub to the front. Upgrading the battery from 13ah to 20ah to support two motors. But I would go with two throttles, one on each side and two displays. Both systems would be independent except for power supply and the brake connections. Primary reasons - more torque on the take off and hill climbing. As well as a backup propulsion system if the chain breaks. (Had that happen once. No fun.) I had an old build many years ago with two hub motors that worked very well.

Yes the possibilities are endless - perhaps a pursuing drone that swoops down and flies you to hospital in the event of an accident - or at least is trained to fly down and perform a quick puncture repair (whilst administering hot tea)?

I would have thought so yes.

Woke up this am with a possible solution if a secondary motor is used as a generator - perhaps on the other wheel. An electronic circuit that would pulse or somehow regulate the load (charging the battery). But maybe it would be the same amount of friction? Or a centrifugal clutch of some sort? Am I changing the subject? Is that OK?

mmm your best route would be to used the second generator as a breaking system although I sceptical as to whether its worth it.

Hi Dave. Like the project - my first thought is safety as recumbents tend to be low and difficult to see. Having said that you could construct a bedstead - with all of the heavy batteries very low down - similar to car chassis design. Four separate controllers with their own individual feedback but combined control is easier - the costs and maintenance of many common components appears to be cheap these days. Would be interesting to see if there were any issues with differential skew. Pls keep me posted.

Mmmm Sorry for the delay in replying, Ian. The first thing to do - and this in my experience is NOT easy is to find the spec. for the controllers. My first concern would be fitting the break cut off connections. These generally tend to be shorted together when the break is applied. The only issue here is the polarity of the connections. As I say in this video the breaks are connected using blue wires and even thought the controllers were the same design - the two blue wires were fitted to their connectors a different way around. This is not surprising as the designer would not expect some 'eegit' to want to parallel up two controllers. It is like that one is ground so you could meter this out to confirm similar polarity. The only other important connection is the throttle input. These too can be inspected with just a simple multi-meter. If they are similar you only need to cross couple the ground connections and the variable control wire - which I believe is grey in my diagram. Note that you should only connect the positive from one of the controller. Do le me know how you get on and good luck.

Sorry for the delay in replying. Basically the ah of your battery does not matter. It is simply a method of describing the total capacity of your battery. 100ah would take you twice the distance. The stated battery voltage for the motor is specified by the manufacturer and should only be exceeded if you require more performance and less life. I don't really understand what you mean about the BMS but do be careful with batteries. They are quick release mechanism for potentially enormous amounts of stored energy. The name for a unit that releases vast energy in a very short time is 'a bomb'. So do please go carefully.

Cheers. Happy cycling!

Take care - these devices can develop into wonderful, but unintended, welding kits. Ensure a solid 0v/GND across everything. Avoid floating. Finally - why use two separate batteries? A solid diode bridge would balance the whole system safely. Good luck!

Could you present a full diagram please? I really would not want to destroy your system.

@@richard_wenner No you wouldn't do that, it's all basically done and hooked up, I just need to power the front ESC without it's throttle with the red on off switch. I just need to know how to connect the yellow wire to activate the ESC so it can accept the paralleled (white) signal wire of the other ESC's throttle. I'm not sure which wire to short it to

@@ABritInNY Well good luck with your choice - hope all goes well :)

@@richard_wenner didn't want to risk anything on the uncertainty, so I just ended up opening the 3 led throttle to take a look, (the hall sensor on the throttle part is anyway broken. It seems the switch is just a latching SPST that shorts the yellow and brown wires when latched. So I'll just make a matching 6 pin jst connector for it that shorts the 2 when plugged in, that should work to enable the ESC to power on and allow my 2wd signal wire parallel setup to work. Thanks for your replies Mate and have a nice weekend.

Well thanks too - sorry for the delay in replying. I've only just discovered this huge back log.

The difference is that the phasing of the motors on a hover board do not matter - blade positioning between the two is irrelevant whereas the feedback from each motor on a bike varies with size of wheel and differential distance travelled.

@@richard_wenner that is actually correct, thanks for your answer 😊

@@samithawaba895 please let us know how you get on - I'm currently working on an e-kayak

Brilliant! Happy cycling.

I have a quick question does the pedal assist work on both motors

Measure the voltage that comes out of you throttle control on the 48v system. If it is 0 to 5v then there is little reason why the two systems should run from separate batteries. Ensure all -ve supplies are bonded together and +ve supplies separated. Also beware of the polarity of the brake leads. If you are not happy just down rate everything to 36v.

Try disconnecting one throttle and see what happens. I've a feeling you will have better control that way - but do check the polarity of the throttle connections - as mentioned in the video.

ie connect one throttle to BOTH controllers - checking polarity.

Just tried to connect both black, both signal white and both yellow switch wire to each other and the one single throttle powers both motor like a treat. you are a genius, saved me a lot of headache. thanks

Do let us know how you get on. :)

@@richard_wenner sure thing,already bolted the motors to the rear ,just waiting on the battery to arrive,(and maybe an rc remote cutoff switch) will keep you updated :)

@@runningwithscissors7715 ok :)

Thank you. 3 Wheeler break down? You can always pedal. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qtubaKiZu5bMg4k.htmlsi=EZgtxXAVcKOR1gLv but I don't

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/edR6ZM6KsrTGqKc.htmlsi=XwHcQW2aiozYMOD2 Turned out to be a good 2 seater too! :)

Thanks - best of luck. Do please keep me updated. I'm now looking at a quad following my tri kzfaq.info/get/bejne/edR6ZM6KsrTGqKc.htmlsi=XIQsfM0Amn3Mqtlq

@@richard_wenner you are building a quad for two?

@@davidcarr2649 or a quad for four although I think this would definitely cause interest with the local fuzz. AliExpress appears to have many cheap go-cart bases with steering and suspension for about £600 which appears to be great value (if they will ship them to the UK). btw that meter reference is here:- www.amazon.co.uk/Precision-Analyzer-Consumption-Performance-Backlight/dp/B07M5XD4G9/ref=asc_df_B07M5XD4G9/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309857966843&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16471503113968056366&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045425&hvtargid=pla-633698426290&psc=1&mcid=d352271c4f853e24921bdd00189b61d5

Danke.

Thank you. :)

Replace the fuse with a nail? Try disconnecting the two blue wires - these have a polarity but it is not shown. Let me know.

And I wish I had seen this reply sooner - to say thank you!

Yes, connect all 0v together (if you are running 3 batteries). Then connect the three throttle connections to a single throttle. (The throttle is only a variable resistor) BUT check the polarity of the throttle inputs to each controller - for the reason shown in the video. Please let me know how you get on.

@@richard_wenner thanks a lot for the reply, im planing to use only 1 big battery, but in the meantime im still trying to figure out whats the best frame, but again thanks for the reply

My pleasure. Happy pedaling.

@@richard_wenner Have you thought about enabling regen on the controller? Normally there is a solder point on the PCB and one of the brake levers will activate regen with light pressing. I think you have to beef up the way the axle is secured in the fork dropouts because of the extra force but presumably not an issue on the rear.

@@bonzobanana1 Yes, initially wanted 'regen' but the consensus appeared to be that the losses due to wind resistance were so high that the advantage of regen was trivial by comparison and not worth the additional complexity. I'd need to open a controller to investigate this further. My frame is aluminium and expect it to fail at some point - hopefully not at speed. (Reg in F1 and the new local trains is a really interesting topic - particularly when the batteries are almost full).

@@richard_wenner Yeah I think its 3 to 5% or something you can get back but I guess if you only use the power for going up hills and use your own leg power for the flats and downhills you can probably significantly extend the range of the bike using regen. More importantly you can significantly extend the life of your brakes using regen. I guess if you rely pretty much totally on the battery to propel the bike regen is insignificant but if you put a lot of input yourself then its a big deal. I'm planning to look into it because I'm going to try cycling unassisted as much as possible even with a direct drive hub, maybe I could even enable regen on the flats and not just downhill, I'm sort of going to try to even the effort needed for most roads, uphill I have to work of course with the hub motor on, on the flats I have to work with the small amount of hub turning resistance and downhill I will still pedal in order to create regen at the maximum level. This will give me the maximum range and workout too but the workout will never be excessive whatever I'm doing. I'm heavier than you I think and just went with an oversized high tensile steel mountain bike frame, they are built like tanks and if they fail you get plenty of warnings so ideal for heavier riders. This sort of thing. i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/JYgAAOSwCXxZrYp4/$_86.JPG

@@bonzobanana1 Years ago we did try to make a pneumatic braking system - using oversized steel tubes in the frame as the reservoir. Not the best use of my younger hours.

Thank you. Good luck -stay safe.

I assume you mean this? 1. Data display:it shows the riding speed, a single mileage and cumulative mileage, riding time, power-assist gear, motor power and temperature, battery voltage and charge status, brake status and the used ambient temperature and other cycling parameters; 2. Intelligent power:a true reflection of the battery charge, real-time recording of the power consumption to ensure riding mileage; 3. Stalls setting:multi-gear switch and automatic save of the power-assist gear, and it can restore power-off stall state when turned on; 4. Parameter setting:with a number of user parameter setting functions, motor parameters, velocity measurement parameters, speed-limit parameters, power parameters, power-assist control parameters, the minimum controller voltage and maximum current parameters and other operating models for settings adjustment ; 5. Data view:Users can view historical driving data and clear accordingly, view single or cumulative riding time, riding mileage, maximum speed and average speed of single riding; 6. Vehicle boosting:With 6Km/h power-assisting functions, the boost logo flashes during boosting, and riders can use it when driving the vehicle and the vehicle driving is labor-saving and easy; 7. Cruise and constant speed: With the setting and display of the cruise, achieving to automatically maintain the vehicle speed, so that the vehicle drives at a constant speed; 8. Night driving:With the functions of LCD backlit display and headlight switch control, instrument backlighting and headlights can be turned on during driving at night; 9. Password setting:With three-bit of power-on password setting; 10. Automatically prompt: For the appeared failure of the vehicle, it can prompt different fault codes for easy inspection and maintenance of vehicle. With a temperature display for motor operation and it is to achieve the ultra-temperature alarm and motor protection; 11. Use five-line of digital communication, the instrument has good compatibility and interchangeability, different instruments can be conducted the data exchanges and parameters copy directly; 12. Host part and operation buttons of the meter use sub-structure design, making the operation to be more reasonable and convenient; 13. Supply voltage of 24V/36V/48V can be automatically identified and compatible; 14. Black housing I would not dare to suggest as it appears to have so many capabilities that must be derived from other sources. This is way outside the scope of this video (I don't even use PAS)

@@richard_wenner thank you for your reply Richard yes i totally agree to much info on so many wires etc so my plan A was one lcd but now i have moved to plan B lol and that is to have 2 lcd one for each controller was hoping to have one as this look more tidy lol but i have tested today and 1 lcd per controller works fine which is great in one way as i can change the parameter's for each controller etc thank you and i found you vid very informative thank you

@@smudgy34 Good luck. Let me know how you get on.

Not seen a dual hub version BUT they would have two run 2 controllers - because of the sync problem I explained in this video. Why do you wish to switch between 1 and 2 motors? I see no advantage in the complication (or dragging an unpowered motor along).

@@richard_wenner I plan to use my bike a little for hunting in the woods, I’m thinking having the front hub with give me better AWD over small obstacles like down trees etc.. there isn’t always a clear path

@@mdvandale I hope that you do not mind me saying but in my experience this kind of manipulation is unnecessarily complex, difficult to control (in the field - no pun intended) and ineffective. Good luck anyway.

@@richard_wenner so your saying the only way would be to purchase one already made with a 2 hub setup, I was hoping their was an upgrade path.

@@mdvandale I believe that what I was saying was - if you have dual hub drive now don't bother to split it into two single/one dual drive. It's not a Land Rover where you have the time and easy controls to switch between the two modes during cycling. The only time I have done this is with a 5 drive hospital wheelchair where the customer wanted to provide a short very high power mode, in case the wheelchair was stuck before a large kerb.

yes, just splice together the wires correctly

True but do not connect the two positive terminals - just one +ve both signal and both ground.

Yes so do I I've been diverted into a tadpole trike recumbent version using 20mm square sections for the frame - I've had to build custom wheels to accommodate a larger bearing size.

Nothing to do with the batteries - it's the method of feedback that's employed (if at all0

Thanks for watching!

I don't see any reason why not. I would not put a small scooter motor on a big bike or a large bike motor on a small scooter. What did you have in mind?

Perhaps we will meet some time?

Watched this video prior to planning my own ebike conversion (great video, thanks!) and spotted this comment. I'm originally from Hereford and know these hills well...!

I doubt the details you see on the S830 differ - if you were using front/or back motors. The only thing you really need to do is connect the throttle to the second controller and then the other motor - let everything else 'freewheel'.

@@richard_wenner the S830 has 5 wire, red for battery voltage, black for ground, blue for Lock, then green and yellow for control. If i do just parallel connections for the throttle signal ang ground only, I don't have control for the PAS level? The front will just do full power right?

@@richard_wenner two controllers (identical) to one LCD display is what I'm looking for. Is it possible? Like making the controller display wires parallel to each other then connect it to the lcd display.

@@shadoworkz123 The throttle should control the power. It should assist with power not encumbered by the PAS - as dar as I can ascertain.

@@shadoworkz123 No I can't see what you achieve by trying to monitor the second drive.

Thanks OOOOOOKKKKKKKKKAAAAYYYY Have a good 2021

Had hoped to have started this by now but family issues interrupted the flow I'm afraid.

Yes, I had hoped that was clear from my explanation about the phasing of the motor drives (and the impossibility of doing so). This is 2 motors, two controllers, one battery and one twist grip. Hope this helps.

@@richard_wenner thanks bro.

connect the negatives together to prevent any ground loop problems

Range fear eh? Keeps me awake at nights too but I prefer the minimum fuss method. I believe that it would be easier to employ some form of switching - draining the first before swapping over to the second. Hub motors are a bind when their power goes down. You will enter a kind of 'limp mode' on both batteries with your set up. One of the advantages of your method though would allow regenerative braking. Please let me know how you get on.

I'm using my stock rear hub and battery but I added two batteries for the front hub and controller and I never have any issues with voltage sag even at the and of rides the front motor still feels full of life

Rick Wakeman? Some sa Jeremy Clarkson but I can't see/hear that either. :)

I like to live with a bomb between my legs :)

Like your thinking. I purchased a goods trailer from Holland for entirely that purpose. Let me know how you get on :)

Thanks. I love riding it.

Mulțumesc

You could use a multipole switch or relay to flip between the required connections I suppose but take care. What is it that you expect to get back?

Hi Richard, I was hoping to connect two controllers and one LCD display and one throttle. The reason being; battery level, speed, distance traveled. I know the Voillamrt controllers with LCD display have different wiring, and was hoping to avoid two separate displays and two separate throttles. I don't know if this is possible. Thank you for your response.

@@dennisfilek5652 Have you the full connection details of the units you are using?

Hi Richard, These controllers have the usual wiring for the motor, hall sensors, brakes, etc. They also include red, black, and green for the throttle , red, blue, black,green, and yellow for the display with on/off switch.

@@dennisfilek5652 So no description of the function of the wires then?

Sorry I don't understand this.

@@richard_wenner statistics range, consumption, climbing ability and efficiency...

Well 1500w (run in parallel - as per this video). Each motor will have a specification that will sit on a power current graph with a 1.5k and specify technical limits - based upon their design. Your controller will also have limitations. Setting these aside you could draw the power graph where P=I* V Points on this line would suggest that were you to use a 1000V battery - it would only need to supply 1.5 Amps a 500V battery 3 amps a 100 V battery 15 Amps a 50 V battery 30 Amps note the practicality of this and the size of cable required (and which values e-cars employ). Your selection would more likely be made from the usual selection of available batteries assembled for e-bike use. I could now continue this stupidity by suggesting that you could use 33 AA standard battery cells but this leads to the range you want to achieve. Range is related to the total capacity of your battery. With the current / voltage sorted see total capacity kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pap5p9uCktyce30.html I hope that this helps. :)

Thank you Working on a energy monitoring scheme at the moment.

?!

Keep us informed pls.

if I had a million dollars for every time you said "he fails to not understand the laws of physics’" i'd have a couple of house now!

most irritating comment i have ever seen

Come on Gino - don't be unkind. :) This is how trolling begins.

I always think that a bad reaction is better than no reaction at all.

Yea yea!

You are correct in every particular. What you have not yet seen is all of my recent developments with disk brakes and carbon fibre. All the current effort has gone into 3 wheeled recumbents that I hope you may find a little more to your liking.

I ride it with a smile on my face. Have just completed a 3 wheeled recumbent - being sprayed now.