I like how there's a Shanna chapter 1 Mistake??? or PSYOP HMMM checkmate elitists there's no coming back from this

@@DD151it's full transparency!

Checkmate, atheists.

The unsong hero

Me blessing fortune upon the stationary enemies near the boss in 12x for getting three-rounded by Thea's javelins and supplying her an entire level worth of EXP at no risk

@@Luigiofthegods Yeah I think Thea's training arc is a bit overstated. Depending on their stat rolls, she can 1 round some cav reinforcements with the horse slayer, or team up to take down the promoted pally for more juicy EXP. And while gaiden chapters are very slow and boring, they're also filled with relatively weak enemies that are perfect for bringing up any training projects.

@@MrCactuar13 I think it ends even earlier than that, since she has plenty of opportunities in 12 and 12x. Yes, she has to fight axebros without an Axereaver, but with a Slim Lance she still doubles them with ~75 hit, and it's easy to weaken them for her with other units because of how beefy they are. Yes, she has to deal with a lot of Archers, but it's not exactly impossible to kill an enemy type you're weak to (and if you're me and like her enough to give her the second Angelic Robe, she doesn't even get one-shot by the Steel Bow guys). There are also just a lot of Thieves in 12x that she can snack on and get EXP that way

@@MrCactuar13 I definitely remember missing a cav with a horseslayer and getting crit killed in response on the bridge chapter

he says it again here lol: 13:09

"S-stupid FE7, it's not like I LIKE you or anything!"

That doesn't matter lol

@@mysmallnoman it doesn't matter for you, but remember, different people play differently. It comes up quite a bit for many other people, including myself. Common examples are trying to fly percival over the forests and rivers in chapter 18 illia route, or dual warping in chapter 21 by having a flier Carry percival, where they then proceed to handle combat in the south and take pressure off the north. Miledy is the only flier who cannot do this, in fact, she cannot do so with the majority of combat carries in the game. She cannot rescue dieck if he is in danger, cannot rescue any warrior nor berserker, heck, even if you're playing less efficiently and using goofy units like wendy, miledy cannot rescue wendy. As such, for people who play high efficiency or people who like their units to have the utility of a Swiss army knife, shanna is more valuable.

@@isuckatgaming1873 this is extremely a nothing burger of a point, and it's not because " it's not my preferred play style bro " it's just not that useful " She can't rescue people like the warrior and Berserks and Wendy around " do you even hear yourself

@@mysmallnoman you claim it's "a nothing burger of a point" and that its "not that useful" but you provide no proof of why it's not useful. I provided 2 examples that play into high efficiency ganeplay (and thus, indisputably factor into the rankings of units) and multiple examples of how it is useful for casual play by showcasing units that a casual player may use that cannot be rescued by miledy. Instead, you choose to attempt to bring me down, as if you are above me and making fun of me. I ask you to be a better person in the future, as this community does not need any more toxicity than it already deals with.

@@isuckatgaming1873 because your examples aren't useful Why would you use a unit like wendy lol, it's hard to take your argument seriously when you say shit like " Miledy can't rescue units like Wendy " like it matters ever As for ch21 example you don't specifically need Percival to defeat the enemies, you can use other strong units you have

Pure brainrot 💀

I scrolled to comments for this. Like, am I living in a Mandela effect?

This is a message from Lord Arcardo, I await you on the Western Isle.

It's a better argument than you're giving it credit for. If Shanna catches up to Marcus just in time for Marcus to start falling off, and never really surpasses him, that's a pretty weak payoff for a lot of effort. It's not _no_ payoff, like me insisting on training Sophia is, but it's still less than the effort involved in getting her kills, largely because it doesn't even last very long.

It's also quite the understatement considering that, since she'll be doubling most enemies, trained Shanna literally fights like 2 Marcuses.

​​@@MrCactuar13no she won't, if she on average has similar stats to base Marcus then she'll fight just as well as he is, hell she might be worse than hin at doubling due to having lower CON

@@AlexT7916 Assuming she has 19 speed, she'll still have 14 AS when using a Silver Lance or Steel Sword. Marcus would need to gain 3 speed to match that, so assuming you have a level 9-12 Marcus by Chapter 9 then that's just not gonna be the case. And since Shanna is mostly using swords throughout the Western Isles anyway, she's not gonna be weighed down and will be fighting with her full 19 AS with Iron Swords.

Which draft race was that, out of curiosity? Part of my Shanna Bad-brainedness comes from Dondon's 4-way draft against himself. That was on normal mode and included some comments about "Shanna is no longer the carry, Roy is the carry now." Which was a real moment of: oh, this dubious early game combatant is also a dubious late game combatant? And people S rank her, on hard? FWIW I do like her flier utility and rank her around Chad, similar to Mekkah's placement. But I don't think there's a strategic role in investing in her aside from having not-much-else to do with the early whip.

@@merlinthetuna Keep in mind that same Draft demo had Team Miledy in by far the least generous position and she came in last place despite her generally being seen as a Top 3 unit at minimum on Hard Mode Tier Lists.

​@@merlinthetunathe commenter was originally one of the people who was going to be involved in the FE6 draft race but had to drop out. She very likely did a large amount of prep work and research for the draft race even if she didn't end up participating, so her statement on the topic probably comes from personal experience.

Lot enjoyer? What a chad

lotke

I use lot often too (a lot), bonus points for having support with Shanna. That being said he can run into strength issues which is unusual for a fighter... so in case that happens I save an energy ring. Lot is nowhere near as good as her tho, even if he had stats and growths like fe7 geitz that wouldn't change the fact that he can't fly and doesn't have a horse. Nor can he climb peaks but that's less of an issue. Generally I promote Lot at lv15 or after because any stats he can get are going to help out tremendously, despite the juicy warrior promo bonuses.

tell em

Yeah I felt like Mekkah deferred a lot there and didn't challenge much

@@thomastrautman5855Mekkah's done that with every single Tier List Review video he's ever done.

LagSpike I'm sorry that Leo and Peri weren't Top 2 of the tier list but you gotta let it go, man.

@@cartooncritic7045 That Ophelia placement is a travesty

I'll second robe use, I gave it to rutger last time and he definitely doesn't need it.

1) that doesn't matter, it's not like you NEED to rescue units around all the time or something 2) why would you ever let her get hit by an archer anyway ? 3) she won't round because she's not strong enough, nvm how there's like only one horseslayer and it only has 16 uses lol, there's also one wyrmslayer in the game before ch19 and it only has 15 uses, by which time other units already used it lol 4) there won't be enough silver lance uses by the western isles because not only it has 20 uses but also Marcus/zealot already used most of them to deal decent damage to non axe enemies in the early game 5) " their bases and growths are mid " funny how you say that because while you're not wrong the only advantage she has over them is 12 base spd which is negated by her 4 con.....so lol 6) noah is much worse than them ( dude has +1 base spd over Lance and +1 base str over Alan and he joins 6 maps later and 6 levels higher ) and his growths are much worse, also his sword rank means nothing because the killing edge and the silver sword is pretty much Rutger's lol

@@mysmallnoman 1) rescue is good, like ch14 and 21 are all about rescue and even outside of that it gives more flexibility sorry your not like utilizing it well? 2) because like shanna handles every other enemy in the western isles so living an archer allows more ep flexibility and also allows more rescue flexibility on maps like 11a and 12, also allows her to live ballista which again is more flexibility for rescue/combat. 3) no one in fe6 aside from like percival melady and rutger 1 round, shanna is a better user of effective weapons than most of the army because she can actually double the targets like horseslayer into enemy paladins and she can actually fight wyverns in the sea of chapter 13 or in the desert in ch14. 15 uses for each is plenty to go around. 4) you get 40 silver lance uses you will be fine manage your resources better even 10 is good enough for burst combat for shanna. 5) you get 2 killing edges and rutger can use the wo dao not that he even needs them for non boss enemies and then they are buyable in 12 what is the issue. 6) noah 10/1 over allen and lance only has less of speed/strength depending on cav and again 2 killing edges and a wo dao. 7) shanna has the same as lance with iron lance and is faster with slim and has +15% speed over lance. Her bases are fairly comparable the main difference is swords and the fact shanna can fly which is far more useful utility and more worth facilitating than a mediocre cav whos rescue utility is easily replaced. You dont seem to be managing your resources very well you get enough of weapons to get what you need from them and most fe6 units need killers to one round anyway so like???

@@krows-love 1) i said " it's not like you need to rescue ALL THE TIME or something ", i never said it's not good 2) or you can just not let her get hit by said balista or said archer lmao 3) " no one other than Percival Rutger and Miledy one round " other than the fact that this is not true, this isn't an excuse for her awful str " Shanna is a better user of effective weapons because she can actually double enemies like with the horseslayer" lol, math time 10/1 Shanna has 19 spd and 5 con and the horseslayer has 13 wt, so she has 11 AS lol, which is only 2 points faster than base marcus and 2 points slower than average 10/1 Lance, furthermore enemy paladins have 12-13 AS in ch13 so she won't double jack shit with the horseslayer anyway lol " She can fight the wyverns" they have +13 def and average 10/1 shanna deals 4 dmg per hit lol, just use Klein/Shin you dummy after you bait the wyvern 4) " even 10 uses is enough " ok she needs to double to deal any meaningful damage, which means she has basically 5 rounds with it lol, that's so low 5) " she's faster with slim " yes and that weapon has low damage lol " Main difference is sword " them being able to use swords is a huge deal because they have much more reliability against most enemies in the early-mid game ( fighters and brigands ), nvm how some early game maps ( ch2, 4, 5, 7 ) has forests and forts that give them 20% avo and +1/2 def, something shanna can never have " Flying is far more useful utility " not in the early game lol Ch2 : useless Ch3 : useless especially indoors Ch4+5 : useless, i made a comment on this video that explains why, go read it Ch6+8 : useless for the same reason as ch3 Ch7 : actually useful because you have so much villages to visit and too much combat ( so most of your units won't be free to visit a village) and Shanna is the only one who can fly over the villages making visiting them way faster, especially since you have reinforcements up your butt 6) it's not about me not managing my weapons well lol it's about the fact that the silver lance and the killing edge have few uses and will be used a lot unless you want Marcus to deal like 7-8 dmg to an enemy cav in ch4 ( that he's not already doubling btw ) and Rutger to take much longer time taking down ch4+5+6 bosses ( and he already needs to be lucky to land that crit anyway, so you may use more uses than you anticipate since he's promoted yet ), you're not going to use them all the time obviously but they will be close to breaking Also you don't need killers to one round in FE6 lol unless if your whole strategy is just relying on critical hits

@@mysmallnoman ok Im gonna hone in on the effective weapons: 1) if your using 10/1 shanna for combat in rescue mission thats like your own fault lol at I think its 13/3 or 12/3 with the body ring she doubles paladins with the horseslayer which no one else does and is valuable since your pretending that shanna is alone in needing to double to kill with effective weapons. Rescue mission paladins have 41 hp and 10 defense at minimum. You need at lowest roll 18 strength to one hit with horseslayer your strongest lance user by rescue mission allen needs to be 20/1 to do this on minimum roll to double their 10 speed not even ohko. To kill max roll paladins with the horseslayer shanna needs the body ring. No strength levels and 13/6 for average speed which is the only stat she needs a levels for. Allen for max roll paladins needs 29 strength which is impossible or needs a body ring and 19 speed which he will get at 20/7. Lance gets this earlier but you still need to level cap cav and get a few promoted levels. Meanwhile for wyrmslayer to ohko wyverns with it you need 19 strength for low roll rescue mission wyverns. Also fun fact 0% shanna at 10/1 with wyrmslayer always doubles the level 12 wyverns with wyrmslayer for at lowest 18x2 and she doubles the steel lance equipped ones if they dont max roll speed in their range of 10-14 and have steel lance equipped. Shanna with 1 speed level and 2 strength levels always kills ch13 wyverns with the wyrmslayer. Her competition in the sea is geese and gonzales who do it easier bc avoid bonus but shanna has to drop in the sea. For land no one orkos apart from rutger with killing edge crit (likely) or lancereaver crit (slightly less likely) kills without wyrmslayer or aircalibur and your aircalibur users arent exactly good. I literally dont see how shanna is worse than other people with effective weapons/crit reliance. I will admit last time I played fe6 was on like boosted enemy growths so I might be wrong on one rounding but I can 100% tell you shanna vs promoted enemies is usually the same or better than other units not named rutger fir or percival. Theres a reason why fe6 killer weapons and effective weapons are good.

Even considering availability as a metric of judgement I would rank Milady a good bit higher than Shanna to be honest, and this is as someone who loves using Shanna and trains her in every run.

wdym I showed that at 0:00

@@MekkkahYou said she's very interesting but you never said she's very cute.

Florina benefits from being in an easier game with weaker enemies and a tutorial scenario where she joins very early and has a much longer stretch being your only flier and the second-best investment target after the Christmas Cavs.

" their combat isn't that better than hers " lol Also no the only stronger lances she can use are steel ones, which suck and silver ones which are already used by Marcus/Zealot in the early game and barely have any uses, so she's literally stuck with iron lances until ch17

@@mysmallnoman I did not say “their combat isnt better than hers”, I said that their isn’t a meaningful enough difference in their combat to justify them being placed a tier apart. They really aren’t that far apart. Early on they feel better due to swords, but due to how similar their bases are, they are both liable to their stats tapering off in the long term as well, and unlike Shanna, cannot leverage the unique role of flight or overkill speed to make up for it. I rarely see the need to use the silver lance even once with the Paladins in the early game, so Shanna can easily rock with Silver Lances. Her flight makes her a better user of them anyways. Even besides that, she rocks with the Killer Lance, Horseslayer, or even some swords like the Wyrmslayer or Armorslayer.

@@pksprite6401 1) being able to use swords is actually a massive deal when you fight tons of axe users lol, overkill speed isn't an advantage when you remember she has literally 6 points of con lower ( for example, 10/1 lance has 14 AS with an silver lance, while 10/1 Shanna has 14 AS with it too " I rarely see any need for the paladins to use the silver lance " yeah man i also like Marcus dealing 7-8 dmg to a 30 hp enemy cav that he can't double instead of dealing over half of his health with a sliver lance instead!! Also most of what you fight in the western isles are axe users, the silver lance isn't much for you there " She can use the wyrmslayer " she needs 100 wexp for that and if you're planning to use the silver lance as you said you would get a C rank even slower lol " She rocks with the killer lance and horse slayer " anyone is good with any killer weapon ( as long as they're good unit ), and the horseslayer has like 13 wt and slows her down by 8 points lol

@@mysmallnoman 1) indeed swords are a massive deal, but Alen and Lance’s base stats are also not spectacular or anything. They’re more useful against the common axe users which can help them snowball, but it’s not like they’re really self-sufficient either for a while anyways. Other than that, there’s plenty of non-axe user enemies. Shanna can still contribute in a useful way during her training period, not having swords in the early game is far from a damning fate. And this is purely looking at her from a combat perspective. The overkill speed is more of a long term thing and value proposition. It definitely matters long term, as doubling thresholds grow. Con can be avoided and shifted around, speed cannot. 2) Get good I guess lol 🤷‍♂️. Chapter 4 is hard but the last few times I play I haven’t used Marcus’s Silver Lance once. He’s better off with axes there anyways (Halberd gaming). And even if you do use the Silver Lance in the early game, I think it’s ridiculous to say it’s unreasonable to have any uses left of it for the mid game (plus you get a second one with Chad in chapter 6 iirc). 3) Shanna conveniently uses swords :). But that aside, there are still plenty of threatening units in the Western Isles who don’t use axes. The Cavalier reinforcements in the village 10A/11B come to mind (though tbf Shanna and others can function well there with the Horseslayer), but there are still Shamans, Archers, and Mercenaries to dent. Besides, she can keep doing this beyond the mid-game as well. By then it’s basically her property, right? Zelot and Marcus have fallen off, Melady and Thea can’t use it for a while, and Alen and Lance kind of struggle with achieving weapon ranks. 3) Genuinely easy to get on chapter 9 and surrounding chapters with how crazily well she does with swords. Wyrmslayer might be a bit ambitious but tbf she has a lot of time to reach that level before dragons and wyverns start showing up aplenty. Armorslayer and Steel Sword are more attainable, though, and she does quite well with those. 4) It is not uncommon for her to still be able to double stuff with the Horseslayer, especially thanks to the her speed. Other than that, I’d say Shanna is a uniquely good user of both the Horseslayer and especially the Killer Lance thanks to her speed and flight. Reliable doubling, full mobility, and the ability to crit twice? Oh baby.

@@pksprite6401 there's so much load of crap here i don't know where to begin But my favorite thing is you saying " Miledy and Tate can't use it for a while " Ah yes It's not like the horseslayer is D rank and Miledy/tate already don't have C/D ranks respectively!!

Tana is way more fun to use than Shanna haha

@@Mekkkah I've played a fair amount of sacred stones ironmans with increased enemy growths. There is no unit barring seth that so consistently becomes a one man army in my experience. She's not just a flier, she's not just a giant ball of stats, she is both. And that is extremely valuable in such a playthrough.

@@hajoeijgenraam295 but she does need training. I guess, that kinda makes her a "flying est seth", lol.

you mean Lyn

That is a very good point. Training shana is a good idea, since even if she doesn't turn out amazing, you don't lose anything by doing so. Who else is competing with that exp in the early game?

Well some people dread going there

rutger is overrated

There isn't really any downside in using it on Shanna though? You get an Elysian Whip from Tate's side objective in 10B/11A, and another one in Chapter 12 for Miledy, and Zeiss gets recruited directly at the Secret Shop in Chapter 16 where you can buy one for him on the spot. If anything, Tate would logically be the one who should get her promotion skipped since Pegasus Knight combat falls off right around when she joins anyway and she gets relegated to flier utility which Shanna is already doing just fine.

I forgor to link it, it's in the pinned comment now!

(+3 from average I mean)

Even for bulk lance only has 3-5hp on her for most of the game post promo and allen is 5-7 and maybe 1 defense and some ppl gonna get annoyed but shanna has way more avoid to where she can 0 out enemy hit under certain circumstances

@@krows-love I will say however that hp difference does matter a bit, as that is the difference between getting two shot or one shot by certain enemies that otherwise Lance and Allen would be able to take no problem. I agree overall though that her bulk being "bad" is hella overstated

" in my experience " lol

​@@mysmallnomanyes...

interesting

@@shiina4826 You know how Typhoon Carter said that Marcia is better than Titania in FE9 LTCs? It's kind of like that, Where in casual play Miledy is better bc most casual players won't know what to do with Thani in their first playthrough but once you get to high level play such as efficiency or LTCs Shanna has a lot of turn saves. I myself find FE6 LTCs very interesting as it changes the meta of what you thought was FE6 originally. Rutger isn't even top 10 in efficient play. It's a tough pill I had to swallow too.

When you say "high level play" are we talkin ltc? Cause if so as Mekkah pointed out we're more so judging her in the context of a more casual playthrough. I myself judge units in a more ironman context. For the record I agree with you Shanna is hella good and I rank her as top 5 in the game but ltc isn't the only context that matters for ranking units.

@@shadownite3378 yeah LTCs I just finished the video so I was just assuming that he was talking about High level play as he usually does. This time he purposefully went more towards casual play and also in the mind of those people he talked to on reddit. As you what you said about how to judge units. I just make different tier lists for each game for each context of play. Casual play, efficiency/ltcs, and speedrunning all have different tier lists. So Rutger in Casual play is top3 or top 5 and in efficiency is not even in top 10.

​@@johan662i don't know much about fe6 LTC other than rutger isnt used but I do think he's massively overrated in HM. he feels really good to use and he does have a solid niche. I would keep him in S tier just bc of that. however, he's a win more character IMO; by the time you need him somewhere marcus/zealot/miledy/alance have already done his job. no 2 range and unreliable crits narrow his niche a great deal. boss killing is also not nearly as tricky as ppl make it out to be, tho he's still nice to have for mage bosses. i way prefer to give exp to other units bc stats aren't his issue, its his lack of 2 range, relatively low movement, lance weakness, and crit rate that can have him suffering from success as a wall.

Unpromoted Shanna works fine too. Heck, if you just lead him into the forests left of your starting position, anyone with a decent movement lead and/or less movement penalties from terrain can keep him occupied completely trivially. You barely even have to think, at that point. Meanwhile, if you're willing to plan around his positioning just a little more, an unpromoted cavalier can lead Douglas on an indefinite wild goose chase in the castle entranceway without much difficulty. And all this is assuming you're not willing or able to just put him to sleep once you've got him out of position. Basically, yes, this is a job promoted Shanna can do, and yes, flight and eight move makes it slightly easier than it would be otherwise, and yes, this frees up your paladins to fight, but you've got access to a lot of tools that can trivialize that particular task almost as much while requiring far less investment, so I wouldn't rate it very highly.

@@jemolk8945 That is true. It's not really a selling point in favor of Shanna, since others can do it. Lance doesn't even need a promo to use an iron sword for that job, and someone like Zelot is perfect for the job It's just that when I played that chapter fof the first time (not ironman), most of my resets were due to Douglas dying on my steel by attacking someone like my heavily favoritized Lilina. So Shanna made that a cakewalk & i thought it was funny. Regular Shanna can do it, but I prefer having WTA for that just to lower chances of getting hit I suppose. Personally I like Shanna, but from my first playthrough I wouldn't say she's nearly as good as Rutger, or Melady, or the Jagens (who i have a tendency to bench a bit too early ngl).

@@KazanmaTheSilverWind Oh, my preferred tactic is to just stay very slightly outside his range. He never even gets to attack. He just chases me around and never catches up.

Whether you go to Illa or Sacae is based on which class type gained more experience in the playthrough and if they're equal, you get Ilia by default. The route split isn't optional content like the gaiden chapters, one of the two routes is mandatory no matter what.

@@outrankingdew Figured Ilia had to be the default in that case, yeah. Ngl I might try and go for Sacae in a future playthrough anyway just for variety's sake.

@@jedimasterpickle3 You can also control somewhat it by purposefully letting the characters die for the route you don't want to go to, if letting units die doesn't bother you at least. Killing off Shin/Sue is sometimes done by people doing ironman runs, so they force themselves to Ilia for an easier completion.

@@outrankingdew That's...an interesting strat lol. FE6 is wild.

well yeah, he'd be competing for a slot in 12x onwards

@@Mekkkah I guess I misunderstood