Absolutely one of the most riveting and educational videos on KZfaq, by one of the most interesting and educational sites. Did it take a year to show up in my feed because YT has a problem with critical thinking on real scriptural questions while promoting Ancient Aliens and Atlantis Origins BS?
@therogerseses Жыл бұрын
Good. Even Talmud is Aggadah sandwiched with law to aid interpretation
@therogerseses Жыл бұрын
Plus oral traditions. Good
@Exjewatlarge Жыл бұрын
I don’t think YT is to blame. I started with Baden’s Yale course and within weeks all the counter-apologetics started appearing, even the less reputable ones.
@anitkythera4125 Жыл бұрын
YT algorithm is always to blame for recommendations
@Aaron5654 ай бұрын
Only issue is there is evidence contradicting the multiple author theory. Lets disregard the claim moses wrote the book, since the argument has now shifted to the statistical impossibility that any group 3000yrs ago could have written a book expressing modern scientific measurements in log form. Pythagorean theorem, pi, speed of light sound, mass and distance between celestial bodies, etc are all embedded within the hebrew text with
@ps.22 жыл бұрын
I love how the Hammurabis don't feel the need to monologue on the guest's topic. _Far_ too many interviewers feel the need to impress either the guest or the audience with how knowledgeable they are. Whereas these hosts are confident that we already know they know stuff, and are willing to let the guest do most of the talking, and that's what we're here for!
@geofromnj73773 жыл бұрын
Dr. Joel Baden is extremely knowledgeable, extremely well-spoken, and has the ability to answer any question comprehensively using a vernacular that any interested viewer is able to grasp and appreciate.
@DrVVVinK3 ай бұрын
I would love to see him debate one of those religious guys, like a Ken Ham.
@tonijoncevski8607 Жыл бұрын
This was fantastic, thank you. I was a Christian for 33 years and a Presbyterian minister for 20+ years. I wish I had been open to do proper study and research when I was at Seminary, but alas …
@danbreeden682 жыл бұрын
It's always wonderful to hear from non fundamentalist experts on the bible
@fcvgarcia8 ай бұрын
The death of moses is the passage that always puzzled me. How could the writer himself describe his own death? Then came the apologists to quickly remind me that the text was dictate by the boss! How convenient! Why didn't the boss didn't write the whole novel himself then?
@vangroover19034 ай бұрын
Does the CEO do everything herself? The best ones always delegate. The She Boss probably wanted to give delegate simple tasks even men could accomplish.
@bobbyskywalker1333 Жыл бұрын
Joel is blessed for talking truth
@petergrant2561 Жыл бұрын
Sounds like 2 or more groups with a long distant common origin separated for a long time and later merged at some point and agreed to assemble their documents/stories/laws but on the condition that nothing was deleted. Presumably, it was allowed to add to the merged documents in an attempt to elaborate/clarify but deletion of any text was prohibited. It reminds me of merging of constitutions in merger of sporting clubs.
@nj85424 жыл бұрын
Just a random comment to help with the algorithm. Awesome interview!
@lawrence51174 жыл бұрын
Yet another fascinating topic with a very knowledgeable and personable guest. Thanks for all your efforts.
@SlightlyOddGuy4 жыл бұрын
You two are doing something very special with this channel. Incredible content!
@stimorolication94803 жыл бұрын
I have always found Genesis 4 fascinating. How could the tale of Cain's descendents be written by the same author as the flood story? The genealogies of Cain and Seth seem to have been conflated somehow, with both having a Lamech. We are told Jabal of Cain's line is the "father of those who dwell in tents and have livestock", present tense. The author clearly states Jabal has descendents in the present. Jubal of Cain's line is the "father of all those who play the lyre and pipe", present tense. Last son Tubal-cain is the "forger of all instruments of bronze and Iron". Clearly the author of this genealogy does not think the line of Cain ended with the flood, and does not see every living human as a descendent of Noah. The evidence this is not all written by "Moses" or any single author is clear as day.
@TurtleRocker122 жыл бұрын
Ham (one of Noah's sons) has a son named or called canaan, who is descended from pre flood canaan through Hams wife. (Moses' Son married a canaanite and took her on the ark.) Many African and near societies trace themselves to canaan thusly. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan_(son_of_Ham) The part on dependency in this article speaks on Ethiopian tradition and so forth.. More specifically, the descendants of canaan mentioned surrounding Noah's despondency would be those who would later inhabit the promised land, therein justifying the conquest/taking of the promised land. I'm saying this would be an additional focus in the text, especially if it was reversioned or redacted after that conquest or contemporary with it. Some theorists are saying the isrealites added the story of canaan being servants to therein brethren by divine decree after this conquest to soften what they did. In other words, this theory is stating that it was made up and put there to soften things up. I don't belive that. But the point is, there's no conflict in the text surrounding the canaanites veing alive post flood. Some people are ordered utterly destroyed by God, but then we see they are very much alive. They could have been commanded to destroy a sub group, some others may have not been present during the conquest, thus preserving their lines for later in the record. The isrealites also notably often don't complete or stick to God's instructions fully. Heck, the claim is that the isrealites were always ethnically and endogamically pure in terms of not intermarrying, but God takes them to task for doing that all the time. Theres tons of mixing going on and then the people consider themselves as always being one people who never deviated from that. There's definitely ethnic and religious mixing with hebrews and canaanites implicit in different parts of the text
@stimorolication94802 жыл бұрын
@@TurtleRocker12 You clearly missed my point. In Genesis 4 it says Jabal is the father of those who dwell in tents and have livestock. Jubal is the father of those who play the lyre and pipe. Tubal-cain is the forger of instruments of bronze and iron. These verses say all of these three are fathers of people in the present (when written), yet according to the flood story they all died along with all family members and thus can't have descendents. This has nothing to do with Canaanites. If you are saying the descent was through the wife of Ham them Ham would be the father of these people. So you haven't explained anything. The person who wrote Genesis 4 simply didn't know all of humanity save a few people supposedly drowned, because that story was inserted much later, borrowed from Mesopotamian cultures like the Assyrians and Babylonians. This flood story comes from the old epics of Atrahasis, of Gilgamesh and of Ziusudra. And of course, while the origin of the story probably was a severe Mesopotamian flood, it was in no way as described in Genesis. We know with 100% certainty that there has NEVER been a global flood for as long as humans have existed.
@TurtleRocker122 жыл бұрын
@@stimorolication9480 haha I did indeed miss your point altogether friend. But I think I understand now. I'll respond in a bit when not working with a few points to ponder.
@erichodge5673 жыл бұрын
What a great conversation. The big takeaway for me was that, in assigning authorship, "follow the plot, not the vocabulary". It really does seem more probable that an author will use a rare word than contradict a major detail of his own plot.
@Num1Consultant2 ай бұрын
Thank you. Great interview.
@thomaseliason83762 жыл бұрын
If you start with the realization that these were stories passed on orally, it's really not that complicated to explain. Most likely, when religious leaders decided to write a comprehensive narrative... they got together the best "historians" they could find and built a story out of the most popular oral traditions of the time. The stories are clearly ancient, based largely on previous Middle Eastern origin myths and popular Hebrew tales of how Israel came to be. How could a redactor choose which narrative(s) to favor? Obviously the answer is to build an aggregation which includes all the major highlights from each historical tradition. There probably isn't *one* guy who knows the entire story in the first place. And the Jewish culture is very adoptive anyway, so their default solution would obviously be to give consideration to any/all significant sources... weighing each one to the degree that is merited. In other words, there's no need for a single reference "truth" in the first place - just compile the stories we have and call that the foundations of our religion.
@sakkel.7357 Жыл бұрын
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. (Jhn 5:46)
@rahowherox1177 Жыл бұрын
Was written during Babylonian captivity as the enslaved Jews were trying to maintain a national or cultural Identity ...
@dairyqueue Жыл бұрын
Realization, or assumption? I know many who start with the "realization" that it's the inherent word of god.
@thomaseliason8376 Жыл бұрын
No need for assumption here - we know when written language was developed in different parts of the world, and how widespread that knowledge was. Even in Jesus' time, a very small percentage of the population could read (and even less could write). So it's not an assumption to say that stories from a thousand+ years before were passed on orally. That is what we call a fact.
@Aaron5654 ай бұрын
Only issue is there is evidence contradicting the multiple author theory. Lets disregard the claim moses wrote the book, since the argument has now shifted to the statistical impossibility that any group 3000yrs ago could have written a book expressing modern scientific measurements in log form. Pythagorean theorem, pi, speed of light sound, mass and distance between celestial bodies, etc are all embedded within the hebrew text with
@stuartc91493 жыл бұрын
Perhaps Dr Baden could do a follow up on when, how and why the redaction process took place, with reference to Josia and the 4th century that he mentioned briefly
@rursus83544 жыл бұрын
Yes of course! He recorded his own death, then wrote it down in writing, and then died. This is a privilege of religion founders only.
@DigitalHammurabi4 жыл бұрын
Rursus Makes sense.
@ADEpoch Жыл бұрын
Thank you Dr Baden for your time. Thanks Digital Hammurabi for providing your resources. This was one of the most informative lectures I've heard on this channel and a few others I've listened to recently. I get the impression that Dr Baden is someone who loves the study of these literature, but at the same time is annoyed with fundamentalists/literalist who refuse to see reason 🤣🤣 I'm looking forward to further interviews with him.
@lauratempestini57199 ай бұрын
Very pleasant interview. Peaceful with asking questions and patiently listening . Very mannerly!
@humblethinker84934 жыл бұрын
What a wonderful channel! Keep it up! Looking forward to watching this interview!
@cdzlink71152 жыл бұрын
I always thought that the rain and water flooded for 40 days, but that the waters lasted 150 days, but it only rained and gushed up from below for the 40 days.
@luvanime19864 жыл бұрын
I very interesting discussion. Thanks very much everyone.
@Nomad19924 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much it was wonderful! I live in Israel and listened to interviews with Israel Finkelstein (who does many interviews and can speak english *winkwink*) and according to him the aftermath of Israel being conquered by the Neo-Assyrian empire is that many if not most of the Israelites fled to Judah, that could explain a lot of the duplicates in the bible in my view. Also he thinks the origin of the mythological united monarchy is in Israel because Judah was a vassal of Israel at some point and the mythological united monarchy was later altered from the Judean perspective.
@davidkeller61569 ай бұрын
I just finished reading “The Bible Unearthed” coauthored by Finkelstein. Something that had me wondering was when Josiah was king and they supposedly “found” the law scroll. I wonder if a lot of the books on Israel and Judah’s history were also written during his reign as a sort of propaganda to justify conquering the northern kingdom of Israel. I even wonder if there really were twelve tribes or if that was invented also.
@Aaron5654 ай бұрын
all of this is theory. the actual archeological evidence validates judah and israel's existence but not a detailed account of israel's downfall. therefore, the historical veracity of the torah should not be questioned, in the same way ancient greek historians third person accounts are taken as historical fact today.
@danbreeden54812 жыл бұрын
Best bible explanation channel on you tube
@joeplunkett40007 ай бұрын
OK so if you can help me find the source where it talks about the passover lamb being boiled. Here is what I found. Ex. 12 talks about eating the passover lamb roasted. I didn't find anything about eating the passover lamb boiled. Lev.8:31 talks about boiling the flesh but that is talking about the inauguration sacrifice.
@MythVisionPodcast3 жыл бұрын
9 fundamentalist watched this video, just look at the dislikes. I love this stuff! Thank you for this interview.
@646oleg3 жыл бұрын
8 + 1 Rabbi Tovia Singer
@646oleg3 жыл бұрын
not to diss rabbi Singer, he's great in his line of work
@JMM33RanMA3 жыл бұрын
It's now 13 dislikes because superstition and because there aren't 666 of them literate and computer savvy enough to write in!
@MrBlef6662 жыл бұрын
@@JMM33RanMA Darth Dawkins and Arabian Prophet watched. +2
@Aaron5654 ай бұрын
Only issue is there is evidence contradicting the multiple author theory. Lets disregard the claim moses wrote the book, since the argument has now shifted to the statistical impossibility that any group 3000yrs ago could have written a book expressing modern scientific measurements in log form. Pythagorean theorem, pi, speed of light sound, mass and distance between celestial bodies, etc are all embedded within the hebrew text with
@yehudagreenfield Жыл бұрын
Thanks for an incredible channel! Your clear passion is contagious and every video is so educational.
@DigitalHammurabi Жыл бұрын
Oh my god! Thank you SO MUCH!!!!! ❤️☺️🥹🙌🙏
@joecaner2 жыл бұрын
(1:25:23) Q: What does one call people who ignore evidence that contradicts their beliefs? A: Unfortunately, that describes most, if not all, people. Upending one's core beliefs takes a lot of getting used to. It is not just a malady of the religious, although, they can be particularly recalcitrant.
@Lorna82642 жыл бұрын
How did Moses write accounts of things that happened long before he was born?
@tradergirljam2 жыл бұрын
And his own death.
@rahowherox1177 Жыл бұрын
The line is - God told him on mount Sinai.
@beastshawnee2 жыл бұрын
Half the problem is that it is always being looked at by insiders with religious motivations. I was never able to believe in any gods after being exposed to all types of world culture gods as a very young child. (Dad read National Geographics cover to cover to us as infants and Toddlers. He was a believer however still in his own odd way) . But by age 4 I was an absolute atheist and by age 11 I was so curious why everyone constantly told me I was going to hell if I didn’t “believe” in the bible yet none of them ever seemed to actually read it at all or just read and studied short passages bit at a time. So I read it. took me a year basically because every time I hit these contradictions and repetitive stories I was like “wait a minute” and I would scramble back and find the other version and try and figure it out. Sometimes it just threw me into cognitive dissonance and I stumbled on reading. Sometimes I got so bored I put it down for a couple weeks and went back to reading novels, plays, and even comic books. I just consumed so much print as a kid. The old testament was to me clearly a mash up of different perspectives and older texts. The new testament was to me clearly slightly different versions which were trying to improve on each other’s stories. But clearest of all was that while some actual history miiiiight be in there-the magical mystical spiritual stuff was just bullshit fairy tales like every other fairy tale from every other region of the world. Aztecs and Inuits and Chinese and South Africans and Aboriginals from Australia all had their own fairy tales and world origin stories and talk about contradictions...And now some dominant culture comes along and tries to mash them all together by making claims that every culture has a flood story so this particular flood story must be the right one! Give me a break. It’s a joke. I really LOoooVe the one post colonization apologetic about how the Aztecs predicted a “white” god would come and so how that must be Jesus...because European Christians assumed Jesus was “white” because paintings of Jesus (from imagination) became paler and paler the more North the religion moved across Europe-with Jesus becoming a blonde infant for the first time in Northern Italy. But the historical Jesus (if there ever was one) would have been a Middle Eastern Jew not likely white but more closely resembling some Aztecs themselves! Where’s the “white” god from this perspective ?!. LOL! But the missionaries never ever imagine they might be wrong and so use force to eradicate other’s cultures. All this Bible scholarship is interesting when someone sees through parts of the text’s errors but unfortunately most people are too lazy to read one difficult book and too insular to reject their indoctrination. The internet is the antidote to religion but it’s still the privileged who can afford it. The rest of the world is still isolated. People still live tribally in many areas and may not even have a concept of overall political world boundaries ...barely of the ultra modern and high tech world.
@rahowherox1177 Жыл бұрын
Yep reading Bible cover to cover (ie properly) is a one way ticket to athiesm... Unless you a 'tard or intellectually dishonest.
@rahowherox1177 Жыл бұрын
And why for the majority of bibles existence, having it in a readable, spoken by current people version was punishable by death. The old leaders of the churches knew it was a fairy tale.
@cg18114 ай бұрын
Considering Moses was a fictional character, that would be pretty tough for him to do
@vangroover19034 ай бұрын
Sometimes fiction is the fullest form of truth, but at least Lot's wife didn't literally get turned into a pillar of salt. That and the scapegoating of poor Judas really got my goat in Sunday School.
@danbreeden682 жыл бұрын
Your channel Is a valuable resource to people that are serious about studying the books of the bible
@scottleigh61173 жыл бұрын
"Nobody knew about layers till we came along..." Wellhausen-lol
@dustinellerbe41254 жыл бұрын
Very interesting. Thank you for posting.
@oldmanfromscenetwentyfour8164 Жыл бұрын
Short answer, No. It was written over many generations by different people. I just saved everyone 90 minutes of your time.
@BobLeach_DarkWolf4 жыл бұрын
Can't wait to listen!
@Ayusisi3 жыл бұрын
Please, I want to learn more about Bible criticism from Joel baden
@abhishekjrp133 жыл бұрын
Great video! Is there a contradiction in the flood story? Because it says that it “rained” for 40 days and 40 nights and it says that the flood waters “prevailed” for 150 days. Is there a contradiction here? Please help.
@mattjohnston23 жыл бұрын
Don't think of it as so much a contradiction. Joel explains that the story as we read it in the Bible is a mashup of two separate texts. Perhaps as the authors who combined them intended, we can read it as one story with some mental gymnastics, but it makes more sense that it was two stories when you look at the whole book and the patterns he's talking about. I've listened to so many hours of Joel speaking, I love how he articulates himself and shares his wealth of knowledge!
@abhishekjrp133 жыл бұрын
@@mattjohnston2 thank you very much for the explanation! I think I agree with this. It looks like it makes sense.
@annepoitrineau56502 жыл бұрын
fascinating insights. What I am going to post is surely a bit naive as I am not a Bible student, but I studied linguistics and also lots of medieval texts. Medieval texts have been transmitted through multiple copists, and sometimes, the copist worked from a translation, which was translated back. Your conclusions seem completely logical to me, but could we also study the influence of the texts pinging between languages and the plot being altered then? The problem of course, is that all these discussions are focussing on the Bible and so many people/groups have a stake in this book and will it to be the inalterable word of god. Then, there is the political aspect: the Bible was part of an agenda, and surely the altered stories might be a consequence of the different agendas, can they be explained in that light?
@pinkbunny62724 жыл бұрын
It took me 3 times to pass the half time mark of this interview. It's a class in a flexible schedule, so who cares it takes 10 hours to finish it?
@dynamic90163 жыл бұрын
Another great video with a brilliant Scholar. Learned tremendously.
@age-freerkbokma12233 жыл бұрын
A great conversation! I really enjoy this channel. A few weeks ago I read a book by Rabbi Dr. Joshua Berman called Ani Maamin and was really impressed. It would be great if you could have him on your show just to have some alternative views on this topic. His views are very different from most of the statements I've heard and read on this topic, but (as a non-expert) I found many of his arguments very convincing and refreshing.
@boliusabol8222 жыл бұрын
What an absolutely ridiculous comment you make. You give no examples of what you are talking about. So why would you convince anybody of anything. Now.. A google shows, Joshua Berman is a Professor of Bible at Bar-Ilan University. Now we're talking. "an accomplished academic Bible scholar who is also a fully committed Orthodox Jew, indeed a learned Orthodox rabbi" Yes this could be interesting.
@pwnzer339 ай бұрын
just watched again. such a good interview.
@justinlevy2742 жыл бұрын
Would love to see you interview Russell Gmirkin, he has an interesting take on dating the Torah to the hellenistic period. He has a number of interviews on mythvision and elsewhere already.
@tonijoncevski8607 Жыл бұрын
Thanks
@freddiereadie304 жыл бұрын
The bottomline is - somebody wrote that stuff down. The question is, did God have anything to do with these stories in the first place? Over and over again, i get bombarded by the explanation that whoever these authors were, that they were "INSPIRED BY GOD" when they wrote these scriptures. In the end, the arguments will always lead to whether a supernatural event really took place (God directly communicated with "inspired" humans), or these were all just products of creative human imagination and nothing more.
@Crazypitbull164 жыл бұрын
The evidence that god spoke to people on mount sinai is more convincing than any other revelation narrative of all other religions imo. I'll refer you this video to gain some clarity on the subject explains it well and organized: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hquXkrKq2Jqym3U.html
@andybeans57904 жыл бұрын
"Inspired by god" is little different than the Greek "muses", where artists would externalise inspiration as the interference of a personal spirit.
@andybeans57904 жыл бұрын
@@Crazypitbull16 Sinai or Horeb?
@patrickwoods22133 жыл бұрын
Of course it was human imagination. Look at all the other religions- they obviously thought that their writings were inspired by their gods.
@maythesciencebewithyou2 жыл бұрын
The answer is simple and the easiest to answer. No, God had nothing to do with it. God doesn't exist. God was made up.
@yvettealley59466 ай бұрын
This was incredible!
@robertmcgee1771 Жыл бұрын
The example I look at, is when comparing two books together namely Exodus and numbers. You see right away it is the same book written in a different way, also the different uses of the names of monuments like Mount Sinai as well as Moses father-in-law Jethro, these names are interchanged which then indicates also a different author. But just understanding the two books are the same book and Deuteronomy is supposed to be a recap of the books, this evidence in itself shows Moses didn't write the book, I mean who writes the same thing 3 times three different ways, this evidence in itself disqualifies a single author
It is hard to believe that a person who did not exist wrote anything.
@madebyreuben34023 жыл бұрын
I wonder what joel baden thinks of Russell Gmirkin's theory that the old testament was but together between 200bce and 300bce at the library of alexandria
@davidburroughs22443 жыл бұрын
It's an interesting hypothesis until it can be tested and survives failure. Until then, we can call it a theory, but that stretches the denotative definition of the word theory beyond it's scientific boundaries.
@JamesMC04 Жыл бұрын
There does seem to be a good deal of material in the OT that can be plausibly explained as the result of Greek or Hellenistic influence: perhaps from well before 300 BCE. The Nephilim in Genesis 6 remind me of the Gigantes, Earth-born, and Titans in Hesiod's Theogony from about 700 BC.
@beastshawnee2 жыл бұрын
Very good interview btw. Good flow-good explanations.
@therogerseses Жыл бұрын
It is interesting that the Talmud says that Ezra was on a level to be like Moses in stature.
@Apocalyptiseptical3 ай бұрын
1:20:04 : in the Coran it is written that it was Ishmael and not Isaac that almost got sacrificed
@ChrisMusante9 ай бұрын
There is NOT a 'leap' in the 'middle' - I have resolved the 'gap' as well as have generated a 100% scriptually backed 'Theodicy' (something no theologian in history has accomplished) and would be happy to speak on this. My warning would be that I will then fulfill Isaiah 52:15. My contact info is 'out there'. Right here some would enter 'Thanks' into this message. I'll instead say... You're welcome, and let's fix this mess. Shalom.
@stephaniesunderland19745 ай бұрын
Thank you for this! Truth!
@dougniergarth2362 жыл бұрын
Under the "Neo-source" thinking, is there any new book that has collected the individual stories told by 4 sources and broken out into those four sources? I want to hear what the source sounds like when they stand alone.
@gupwalla961 Жыл бұрын
Friedman, “The Bible with Sources Revealed.”
@godlessrecovery88804 жыл бұрын
No... So what do I win? Great content as always. 👍
@nukhtube37522 жыл бұрын
Yes...... The third question was my question 100%
@susanohnhaus6112 жыл бұрын
The Bible With Sources Revealed (2003) and Who Wrote The Bible (1987, rewritten and reissued 2019); both by Richard Elliot Friedman. Just Saying.
@WalterRMattfeld11 ай бұрын
(19 September 2023, 10:50 a.m.) Currently 1530 BC is a popular date for the expulsion of the Hyksos. This date does not align with a circa 1446 BC date for the Exodus based on 1 Kings 6:1 mention of 480 years from Exodus to the building of Solomon's Temple. Not very well known to many, however, two Egyptologists, who identify themselves as Christian Apologists, Professors James K. Hoffmeier and Kenneth A. Kitchen, independent of each other, toted up the number of years of rule from Joshua, the Judges, Saul, David, and Solomon, and concluded the Bible erred! It was not 480 years from the Exodus to the Temple's building by Solomon, it was over 600+ years! This 600+ years aligned the Exodus with the Hyksos period of Egypt! Despite this extraordinary finding, both Hoffmeier and Kitchen, then trashed this Hyksos alignment, opting for a 1260 BC Exodus based on the mention of a store city called Ramesses, built by the Israelites, which, for them is the city of Pi-Ramesses of Pharaoh Ramesses II.
@lauratempestini57199 ай бұрын
My question is not directly related; What makes a marriage between a man and a woman? Following the original design plan.
@leetay91324 жыл бұрын
When you guys get back on track, how about Sean McDowell and Candida Moss discuss (not a debate) persecution and martyrdom of Christians and apostles? I just noticed Megan knows Candida on Twitter. Take care.
@omaralyafai23684 жыл бұрын
Fantastic recommendation. I have candida's book on persecution myth and Sean's book on the apostles. That would be extremely interesting
@leetay91324 жыл бұрын
@@omaralyafai2368 . Did you catch any of the Sean McDowell and Paulogia back and forth on the martyrdom of the apostles? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/b6l4iZmVvcC2hZc.html Also see the links in the "about" section.
@wcdeich42 жыл бұрын
Also Dr Josh, I saw you say the Israelites were actually Canaanites on Gutsick Gibbon's channel. Could you please help me find the sources to document that?
@Uldihaa Жыл бұрын
"Boil it in fire" is one of the most technically correct from a certain point of view statements I've seen in a while. There's a pot and water also involved, but it's technically correct; though, considering the pots of the time, it might have been better to nestle the pot in the hot coals or just above them.
@WalterRMattfeld Жыл бұрын
This video seems to conclude Moses did not write the Torah. Why? Scholars have noted numerous contradictions in the Torah, suggesting for them, differing authors, of different ages, have been patched together, to create the Torah, as noted by Dr. Joel Baden. My interest is in determining WHEN WAS the Torah created? Some scholars have argued it was created in the 7th/6th centuries BC during the reign of King Josiah. Others claim it is a product of the Babylonian Exile (587-539 BC), still others, in Post-exilic times (5th century BC). I tend to favor Exilic Times, no later than circa 562/560 BC based on 2 Kings 25:27 mention of the Babylonian King Evil Merodach, who reigned circa 562-560 BC when assassinated in a palace putsch. The author of 2 Kings 25:27 makes no mention of the Babylonian monarchs who succeeded Evil Merodach, nor no mention of Cyrus the Persian, who set Judah free to return to the Promised Land and rebuild the Temple. I am persuaded that Genesis-2 Kings is a unified work by one author who has cobbled together works by earlier men. I see a ring composition here: The beginning foreshadows the end: Adam and Eve are removed from Eden for disobeying God, foreshadowing Israel and Judah being removed from their God assigned land for disobeying God, as happened to Adam and Eve. This ring composition suggests one author for me.
@barnabuskorrum40042 жыл бұрын
This is how you know ppl haven't read their bible. Even I noticed a 2nd creation story in genesis and i just kinda ignored it. I'm not a Christian.
@fordprefect53042 жыл бұрын
You mean these stories According to Genesis, in what order were the land animals, man, and women created? This “simple” question has two different answers. According to Genesis 1:24-27, God creates the land animals (vv. 24-25), and then man and woman (vv. 26-27). However, in Genesis 2:7, God creates man, and then in v. 19 creates animals, and in v. 22 creates woman. Thus, the commonly heard idea that Genesis 2 is an elaboration upon Genesis 1, filling in various details, does not work-the two accounts tell different stories.
@dunk_law3 жыл бұрын
Just reading - Maths Meets Myths: Quantitative Approaches to Ancient Narratives Its a taster of the new possibilities in complex systems.
@Amateur0Visionary4 жыл бұрын
Does the Hebrew Bible read more or less "weird" when read in Hebrew? Just curious. Thanks!!
@phinhager65094 жыл бұрын
In some ways more in some ways less. I've learned so much of it as the word of god in the holy language to have an objective opinion about it. It's definitely more poetic.
@phinhager65093 жыл бұрын
@@yaruqadishi8326 and what would that be?
@buntekuh012 жыл бұрын
Absolutely, he signed it with his personal GPG key.
@hiltonroberts8742 Жыл бұрын
The "two interwoven stories" hypothesis , makes sense. Eg. In the New Testiment, you have "The Gospels", which are four versions of "The life of Jesus" and a warning in the titles-" The Gospel according to John, according to Luke , Mark or Mathew....etc. Is this type of thing ,not common in the Bible...
@finnguy90962 жыл бұрын
Deuteronomy 1:1 varies with translations as to whether it's "this side" or "across" the Jordan. Is it a matter of debate among Hebrew experts. Because the meaning is very different.
@DavidKing-qd3sp2 жыл бұрын
Roast or Boil..... I once read the reason for 2 methods of preparing the Passover Lamb was because in Egypt they were told to make it and eat it in "haste"...Ex.12.11.....but in the promised land they were at rest from thier enemies and could enjoy a relaxed Passover ... If I find the quote I will post it. So again Joel, it is our ignorance in understanding that makes us feel like scholars when we ask so many questions that appear to be problems on the surface....it is said that all the problems in the bible can be put on one page and that they are not significant...Scripture is about salvation but if your focus is "problems within text" then you may miss the beauty of its truth and purpose...The devil is the one who seeks to undermine scripture but he has to use people who are ignorant of his presence.
@stimorolication94803 жыл бұрын
Wish someone would take the same approach in New Testament scholarship. There Occam's Razor seems to be unknown. Sources are invented, and arbitrary (as early as possible) dates are assigned with no evidence.
@mistyhaney55654 жыл бұрын
I think was your best interview so far! Great guest, thank you so much for your consistently well presented and informative content.
@annepoitrineau56502 жыл бұрын
Re unique compiler. A lot of the scribe's job was quite rigidly codified. Can we not argue that the single compiling method is due to the general rule of compiling rather than one lone compiler? (not yet read your book, so apologies if this sounds a bit daft).
@Donteatacowman3 жыл бұрын
I understand why the Torah is so hard to date. Next question. Why am *I* so hard to date? Haha.. ha......
@doyouknoworjustbelieve669423 күн бұрын
BTW- According to the Biblical story of Abraham, Ishmael was the older brother of Isaac. Joseph was the grandson of Isaac from his son Jacob. So the so called ‘Ishmaelite’s’ would have been second and third generations from Ishmael. That is second and third cousins of Joseph and his brothers. Family and clan ties in tribal societies are strong. Generations must pass before these clans become distinct. The last thing you want to do is sell your brother to your second cousins.. Goes to show how careless were the inventors of these stories…..
@therogerseses Жыл бұрын
What happened to the Tav Ivri. I know just asking for those curious about the disappearance of Phoenician letters
@IdentityCrisis158110 ай бұрын
What is odd to me is how people seem to think the early Israelites were so good and righteous. Even in the bible itself, most of what it describes them doing is nomadically roaming around sacking cities and taking slave wives. They were not good people. No one wanted to see them coming because they apparently were equivalent to desert vikings. And when they did decide to stop being nomadic and establish a city. They couldn't just go find some land that wasn't occupied. No they decided to go commit genocide on the Canaanites and steal their land. If you ignore all the supernatural and religious stuff. The old testament tells a story of of rape and pillaging and destruction of city after city people after people perpetuated by the Israelites. I don't understand how people aren't picking up on this and seeing it for what it actually describes. And don't get me wrong. I don't have a problem with Jews. That stuff was 2000 years ago and their culture has changed since then. They aren't like that anymore and honestly most cultures were pretty brutal back then. So they probably weren't any worse than anyone else. But somehow their problematic origins are completely ignored. But that is just common all cultures have their own version of history so a lot of what old texts say happened either didn't happen or happened completely differently from how it was told. Aside from that, from a theological perspective what always confused me. Why did God rest on the 7th day? No one has ever been able to explain to me how an all powerful being can get tired and need rest. If God is even capable of getting tired that sort of debunks the all powerful aspect of God's nature. In the flood story he repented having made mankind. That means God had regret. And you can not have regret without the realization that you made a mistake. That debunks the concept that God can not do wrong or make mistakes. It directly stated that God considered making mankind to be a mistake despite the proclamation that God can not make mistakes. It's a direct contradiction.
@doyouknoworjustbelieve66947 ай бұрын
BTW- According to the Biblical story of Abraham, Ishmael was the older brother of Isaac. Joseph was the grandson of Isaac from his son Jacob. So the so called ‘Ishmaelite’s’ would have been second and third generations from Ishmael. That is second and third cousins of Joseph and his brothers. Family and clan ties in tribal societies are strong. Generations must pass before these clans become distinct. The last thing you want to do is sell your brother to your second cousins.. Goes to show how careless were the inventors of these stories.
@samuil_maxim8 ай бұрын
As i am seeing this,...I was thinking the other day, when God chases Cain from Eden, and he says but "what if someone see me they will kill me" and so on...and at this point ( by the way there are plenty of points like this, that make you think more deeply about the essence of what is written) and at this point i am starting to think who else, when there is no one else,...and many times say to myself loudly as i read this, Who Else..???..or...maybe start to unveil different thinking,..and than i saw the next day some explanation that provoke me, and now this video, and i started to think,..yes,..(First of all lets be clear you can not understand the Bible if you are not familiar with the terms hermeneutics and exegesis before that),..and than i started to think and just now as i see this video and got it confirmed that maybe it got sense,..That there were more people on the Earth on those days which confirms the first narrative of the Genesis and maybe God created more of them and the story about Adam and Eve and how it develops is OUR story, the story of Man,...The story of God and Man,..The story of a relationship of mercy of wisdom of love,..from whoever it is started. That must be, one point, one story, one narrative from where the story unfolds...(In a way,..you can not start from Adam and then switch to Bill than to George as a start of the story that is,..you choose one and you start the story,..in that sense,...if i am clear enough so far)...So in a way to cut the story short this kind of stuff confirms even more about legitimacy and complexity of The Bible and how is it put together ...It contradicts it self but at the same time is telling the same essence ...just like the nature of man.
@LeketRischl2 ай бұрын
Interesting discussion & some great questions. However, most or all of the discrepancies mentioned in this video are not of a kind that could not be found in a homogeneous work. The arguments that support the document hypothesis have been thoroughly deconstructed and debunked by scholars of various backgrounds throughout the past several decades. Yet, it has has been continually dusted off, slightly adjusted and laughably been presented as a "New" theory in theological universities. This has been the staple diet of the gullible in these institutions despite the fact that cutting edge research has consistently been highly critical of the documentary hypothesis and related theories.
@djribz2 жыл бұрын
What is the deal with Moses and Mt. Nemrut in Turkey?
@theend22624 жыл бұрын
Nice as always, thank you. Moses never existed, end of story.
@Demolish_DoctrineRichardMadsen4 жыл бұрын
@The End I might read that as a positive assertion. Are you actually stating that as something you can show? Peace.
@theend22624 жыл бұрын
@@Demolish_DoctrineRichardMadsen To show what?
@Demolish_DoctrineRichardMadsen4 жыл бұрын
@@theend2262 That Moses never existed... that is a positive statement... was wondering if you actually meant it or if you meant that you do not believe he existed. Peace.
@theend22624 жыл бұрын
@@Demolish_DoctrineRichardMadsen Where are the evidence for his existing? There are none, so end of story. Simple as that.
@Demolish_DoctrineRichardMadsen4 жыл бұрын
@@theend2262 Sir, I am not trying to be disrespectful, but you made a positive claim that Moses did not exist... do you have some evidence I could use to show others that Moses did not exist? Peace.
@joachim847 Жыл бұрын
💡 The Torah reads like if somebody combined the four Gospels into one story, like in those "chronological" bibles.
@boliusabol8222 жыл бұрын
At 13:40 regarding Gen 37, there's a question regarding ishmaelites or medianites.. which could be explained as medianites passed by and they sold him to them. I don't think one has to go to two stories to explain that. And I don't really see how other things are indicative of two stories.. Reuben was there while the brothers plotted, has an idea for how joseph can be saved, which is for him t obe thrown into the pit and he can rescue him later, and perhaps Reuben then leaves wanting no part of it. Nowhere does the text say that the Medianites took from from the pit and sold him to the Ishmaelites. The text says The brothers sold Joseph. So a three way interaction makes sense. I have read stories before where something is confusing and could be this or could be this 'cos in one part it reads like this and in another part like that, and nobody would dream of saying oh there are two different stories by two different hands/people, and they got combined by an editor.
@Mabeylater2932 жыл бұрын
8:03 about the flood references: did it ever occur to u you that the 40 days and 40 nights reference is referring to how long it rained and the 150 days refered to how long before the waters receded?
@DigitalHammurabi2 жыл бұрын
No, never. 🙄
@irenafarm Жыл бұрын
It seems like one part references a flood that happened because it rained a lot (mountain flash flood or aberrant monsoon?) and the other preserves a story about a season of severe areal river plain flooding.
@billymanilli Жыл бұрын
Wish I could've been in the chat when someone said "pandemic hair, looking like crispin glover" I was LMFAO
@jonasespinoza6967 Жыл бұрын
It seems to me that dr. Baden is trying to make it very simple but in doing so it looks unprofessional and much less academically express or delivered in a proper way with the right words.
@Jesuslovesyou8015 ай бұрын
one bringing things up that aren't blatantly obvious as problematic don't consider that per reality anything can be removed one simple step and be hidden as to how or be counterintuitive. think of the time when you thought that something was caused by something else or asked yourself why didn't i think of that. it is much more likely at that there is unbroken line than this man trying to disassemble an untraceable thing with ignorance and if you look this man is one that has a huge bias against what is. he is hired by devils. one that isn't for what is, is against
@epiphanydrums54273 жыл бұрын
Sorry but Baden was difficult to follow and he seemed to be reaching for facts he wasn’t very clear on himself. He might be brilliant, and perhaps his book is better organized than his live delivery. His jerky style in speaking and leap frog thought process made portions of this intolerable to listen to.However... I do appreciate the host’s ability to stay out of the way and look forward to exploring his videos with other guests (especially those scholars and authors that I’ve heard on other channels, where the hosts unfortunately don’t know when to shut up and let the guests speak, constantly jumping in, interrupting and commenting.) Bravo! 😎👍
@horus48622 жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed it. Only just discovered Dr Baden today and this is the third video of him I'm listening to. I would put Dr Baden on par with Bart Ehrman and Richard Carrier
@johnlavers39704 жыл бұрын
the torah may be undatable and the text from the 11th century c.e., but how many assyrian texts were written in the 11th c.? they may be datable but proved undataeble.
@andybeans57904 жыл бұрын
Many Assyrian texts are dated because they are everyday lists/letters/pronouncements and will state "In the Fourth year of King Bob's reign" and the king-lists then act as a rough calendar.
@eximusic3 жыл бұрын
Does the neo-documentary hypothesis still believe that different versions of the same (non-priestly) stories were sourced from the divided Northern and Southern kingdoms of Israel?
@TheCynicogue4 жыл бұрын
Does Dr. Joel Badden do debates?
@DigitalHammurabi4 жыл бұрын
Did you read his book yet?
@TheCynicogue4 жыл бұрын
@@DigitalHammurabi The Composition of the Pentateuch?
@AbdulHannanAbdulMatheen Жыл бұрын
👏🙂 Very interesting. Great video
@tonijoncevski8607 Жыл бұрын
Conservative Christians and the Apologetic Corporations harmonise the variant stories in the texts of the bible.
@suzannebrown25053 жыл бұрын
I believe it would not be realistic to assume any one person would even be able to write the first five books, the Pentateuch, of the Bible: The Torah. While Moses was a special and unique person, he would need help, I would think, for verification of events and checks of the truth or questions of the truth.