Maybe Thrawn said, "Long live the Empire" just to flex on his signature superiority on Ahsoka and Sabine when they fail to stop him from escaping back to the New Republic.

I’m glad this is being brought up because this was bugging me just a little. After reading the books I never saw him as this hardcore empire loyalist, it was always a means to help his home world.

I think folks just need to relax…he’ll never abandon his people. He needs the imperial remnant to lead. So of course he’s showing he’s all about the empire. Folks just gotta wait lol

“You see Thrawn just sort of forgot about the Chris’s Ascendancy…”

If there's Ahsoka Season 2 or a Thrawn spin off, I hope Eli Vanto show up as the Best Buddy of Grand Admiral Thrawn.

He would never forget the Chiss Ascendancy. "My job-the sole reason for my existence-is to defend the Chiss Ascendancy and protect my people. I will do whatever is necessary to achieve that goal, and I will allow nothing and no one to stand in my way." - Thrawn

My silly want is that Ar'alani shows up, marches right up to the bridge of the Chimaera, grabs him by the ear and drags him home to Csilla. It won't - duh, I know that. I just wish that was how it ended. But more seriously, if he learned the New Republic defeated the Empire, why doesn't he see that the New Republic as the new goal? The "rebels" defeated who he thought would be the stronger ally, so wouldn't the Republic become the ally that he should pursue?...They'd probably just throw him into prison, but...🤷‍♀maybe they would approach the Chiss with political envoys or something.

What made Thrawn's loyalty to the Empire make sense in Legends was because we knew the size of the Imperial Remnant and that they were well positioned to take back the galaxy but with this new cannon we only have an idea about the First Order group and nothing about the others so it puts into question why Thrawn would want to take on the Republic if they don't have the forces to retake the galaxy. They could easily remedy this issue by doing a post on the Star Wars website doing a wiki update on who the other remnants are where there territory is on the galactic map and what territory they control. That way they don't need to do any exposition for the shows.

I mean, I’d imagine that the reason he’s still loyal to the empire is because he was stuck on a planet and then made an agreement with the nightsisters and he probably saw that as his way out.

Thank you for this! I think you're right about this, and I remember being thrown by his line in Star Wars Rebels about how he would give his all "for my Emperor." It felt like somewhere in the background between Thrawn: Treason and the final episode of Rebels, something shifted dramatically. It's been a while since I reread that one and I may need to give it another listen or read. I'd love to get more content based on the Ascendancy and it would be absolutely wild if part of Thrawn's overarching plan is to return as the Heir to the Empire and liberate the Ascendancy from corrupt officials, and then he turns on the New Republic with TWO navies' worth of ships and troops.

Alex youre a saint

There's a simpler answer, you don't tell your crew to honor your culture so he uses the Empire to ensure loyalty. Even in the books Thrawn has said he sees no conflict in his loyalty to the Chiss and the Empire and it's entirely because of how the Empire benefits him

4:17 forget about Brierly Ronan. He’s also with Vanto in the Unknown. I seem to be the only one who remembers him.

Well Thrawn needed the Empire strength and resources. “The New Republic” is absolutely vulnerable and unreliable. So I just thought he wants to rebuild the Empire mainly for its military might. With Morgan’s death and the absent of Baylon and Shinn it would be nice for Eli Vanto and friends to return. But with the way the finale was written in Ashoka I can’t seem to think we’ll probably not see Thrawns tactical knowledge to it’s fullest. Ashoka doing some basic tactics and Thrawn failing like every other imperial antagonist.

This is why I've eased WAY back on books outside of The High Republic (well that, and because I'm a very slow / fragmented reader). There are now 3 books about Thrawn's *actual* loyalty and true motivations, and none of that carries into the main form of Star Wars storytelling. Yes, just a story can be valid while not being on-screen. But if Star Wars is one long narrative (and that's how Lucasfilm pitched it to us when they wiped Legends away), then this thread should not be ignored. And if they don't want to put it to the big screen, then it renders the books all but meaningless to me. Just my 2 cents.

I think there is another obvious possibility that no one is talking about. What if Thrawn is talking about the Empire of the Hand? He tells Morgan, "for our Empire". It's easy to miss but Thrawn never felt ownership towards the galatic empire. The Empire of the hand though? Well he created that.

No the Grysk did not destroy the ascendancy the whole point for Eli Vanto to join the Chiss Ascendency was to give them the ability to go after the Grysk without worrying about the Chiss's rules of engagement. Then there's also the tech boost they would get off of Eli's ISD so the likely hood of the Chiss Ascendancy falling when Thrawn was gone is pretty much 0%.

That some out there blame Dave or feel the mediocrity at worst of Ahsoka means he should no longer do anymore Star Wars or his film is just sad. Now Dave really is like George in that many are quick to scapegoat and abandon him if he does not make you happy.

The Chiss Ascendance could still be holding steady, yet I can see Thrawn still devoted to his long game of resurrecting the Empire to take on the remaining threat of the Grysk.

Good points. Dave Filoni's idea of Thrawn felt different from Timothy Zahn. For Filoni, Thrawn plays more of an antagonistic role while he is more of a lawful evil for Zahn. Hopefully Zahn has a bigger role in any future stories involving Thrawn.

Thrawn has said do what is strategically sound instead of what's right.

This is mostly true without the Chiss having been conquered. That would just be an additional point. He still wants a strong power in this galaxy that he can call ally, or even better, he himself rules to help the Chiss Ascendency. And maybe even give him power to be on top of the Chiss as well?

I'm a bit worried that all this build-up from Ahsoka about him being a threat doesn't make him a kill on sight target for the Republic or from Ahsoka herself. The fact that they detained Gideon gives me some hope that even if he is beaten he won't be executed but at the same time Gideon's escape may have made the New Republic rethink their policy on keeping high ranking imperials alive, which doesn't seem very far-fetched considering all of the morally questionable things we've seen from the last season of the Mandalorian.

I mean he was exiled from the Ascendency so he can't return there. But he can rebuild a strong Empire with which he can protect the Ascendency.

I think that likely Tim will have to work around this not work with it.

When he arrives in the main SW galaxy he has a lot of allies he can call upon, the Chiss Ascendancy, the Hutts, the Warlords, various other cults, gangs and criminal organisations. If they do everything properly it's going to be a be a total, very cinematic, bloodbath.

I hope that maybe in season 2 or maybe some others star wars project we see more chiss

And then the terrans come out of nowhere in Throne realizes that it might be better off run to us

That is actually a good idea to fix that plot hole. Plus, Thrawn now has no one to tell him what to do and deep down, he was always more than ready to do whatever is needed to destroy the enemy.

Thank you for explaining that, I am not super deep into the Thrawn lore but I was definitely curious about why he he didn't mention Chiss

I believe thrawn never forgot about the accendency. He's trying to get the empire to the strongest it can be so he can then offer help or even an alliance with Thrawns empire and The Chiss Accendency hoping that they will forgive him and lift his exile

In Ahsoka, Thrawn says something along the lines of "For the Empire, and the SECURITY of our GALAXY" I think this extends to the Chiss.

I think Timothy Zahn has expressed an interest in writing a new trilogy of books that bridges the gap between Rebels and Ahsoka and covers Thrawn's dealings with Ezra and all.

The thumbnail made me laugh out loud. 🤣 Thanks for that.

Or another idea may be that in his pursuit to protect the empire he lost himself. He became so immersed in the war and then subsequent exile he’s on some level forgotten his people. Or maybe after his failure and potential shame for what he’s done as an imperial admiral, in the name of the chiss he doesn’t feel like he deserves to go home. I think fleshing this idea out more and making it believable would give thrawn so much more depth as a character. It would make you empathize with him and impose a cycle of self hate and doubt which while might not be affect his choices a lot, would be the reason he ends up losing for some reason or another.

I hope that Thrawn at some point does get the chance to monologue about the Chiss and the Ascendancy.

i think it's pretty clear that the first canon thrawn trilogy shows a man allying himself with fascists and ends up becoming a fascist himself

As the heir to the empire, he would have the entire might of the imperial army without having to cut through all the beaurocratic red tape and he ran into during the books. I hope they go into the Chiss Ascendency in the show, it would help humanize him a bit more and make him less two dimensional.

Yes because Filoni wants a Thrawn that’s more akin to Heir to the Empire than canon Thrawn. Not saying that’s necessarily a bad thing. But that’s just reality IMO

Sounds like folks are seeing Thrawn as being loyal to Palpatine, but as far as anyone knows, he's dead (I can't imagine the Great Mothers didn't sense that disturbance in the Force if they can sense anything at all across the galaxies). The Empire's about to be under Thrawn's command. So I'm not sure I see a conflict of interest between his personal loyalty to the Empire and to the Ascendancy at this point in the timeline.

He didn't forget about the ascendancy but I think in his eyes the best hope for the Galaxy is an imperial force the show

Maybe the Ar'alani or someone else managed to defeat the Grisk without Thrawn, meaning he has no reason to return to the Ascendancy quickly. Since he is a man of honor, he would then be bound to fulfill his oath to the Empire

I question if thrawn knows that the empire fell

This is honestly the biggest issue I have with thrawn as a character with the Ascendancy Trilogy being a thing. It just doesn't make sense for him to be extremely loyal to the Empire to the point where he's willing to undermine the survival of the Ascendancy (with the First Order). Now, I get why it happened. Thrawn was introduced as an Imperial loyalist all the way back in his first appearance. But I think trying to just "remake" the Thrawn Trilogy doesn't work with the way he's developed as a character since that book was published. I personally find the "thrawn is an Imperial loyalist" angle/narrative to be very boring and one-note. That's not to say I want thrawn to be a "good guy"; the Ascendancy is still a xenophobic hegemony, just less belligerent and expansionist than the Empire.

i will be dissheartend if the mando movie isnt thrawn with everyone else fighting the grysk....

Yeah would love to see Eli and Ar'alani in live action.... but who should be the actor playing her?

The Empire must be strong for the Chiss to be strong.

Didn't he literally say something to the effect of "for the security of our galaxy" after saying "for the empire" at one point? I thought that was a nod to his book characterization

I think making thrawn a strong imperial could be really interesting as maybe he has decided that the empire is necessary and may even think the empire should rule over the chiss as he was never a fan of the ruling families

The question still lingering is: what will Thrawn do when he realizes the Empire remnants are relatively weak and have maybe 5% of the strength they used to have?

I just assumed that this new "Empire" is HIS empire, not Palpatine's

The canon Thrawn novels are some my favorite sw books. & I will neither by surprised, or disappointed if they never get fully recognized in live action as "canon." I see the novels as canon, but I also recognize that the High Republic are probably the only novels that will be fully canon across all mediums.

I love his protection of the Chiss, but you see that in Zahn's book, not in Filoni's stuff...I'm not certain we will see the Zahn content in the Filoni narrative. Much to my chagrin.

I think I’m in the same boat: I’d like a more fleshed out version of Thrawn in the LA stuff, but I doubt we’ll actually get it, if recent history is anything to go off of. On a somewhat related topic, Having read The Last Command recently (yeah, I know, I’m late) I noticed something that makes me wonder about the direction this project is going in (spoilers for The Last Command novel, in case anyone’s slower than me): Basically, in TLC, we see Thrawn eventually get supplanted as main villain by the mad clone C’baoth, with Thrawn being dealt with afterwards in a ‘tick the box’ kind of fashion. Do you reckon we’re going to see the same happen here, and if so, who’s going to fill C’baoth’s role?

I like to th8nk that one of the first tjings the first order got up to was totslly destorying the chiss and the Grisk.

Live action Ar'alani & Eli Vanto yes please

I was thinking about this ages ago before anyone else really. Why is Thrawn still helping the Empire

I think thrawn did say that he believed that an empire would been better at combating certain threats than a republic, i can't recall exactly what he said i think it originates from one of the legends novels.

I really wanted to the see the chiss in Ashoka maybe that will happen in season 2 of Ashoka I don’t know if empire remnants will like to meet the chiss and grysk war

Didn’t the Grisk have a few Chiss skywalker kids as hostages during one of the Thrawn book?

Alex, where did you get your T-shirt?

I think he had his fingers crossed behind his back 🤞😂

Based on the canon, if Thrawn WANTED to get back to the Chiss Ascendancy, could he do it without a Skywalker? It’s unclear to me if he could even get an ISD through the Unknown regions even if he wanted to. I understood him to be in total exile, politically and practically.

I'd LOVE to see Thrawn show up in Andor. Does that line up??

Thrawn in the show literally says he believes in "the security of our Galaxy". I think you can read into things if you make the effort. Also, with the idea of Thrawn going back to the Ascendancy... even Timothy Zahn in recent interviews has said it makes sense for Thrawn to stick with the Empire. He believes Thrawn wants this highly militarised system because it's what's needed to stop the Grysk, and he won't just ignore or join the New Republic because he thinks they're weak and ineffective. Combine that with the idea that maybe the Ascendancy really has done down the drain and that he could learn that from the Mothers... yeah, Thrawn might end up giving in to a saviour complex, doing everything necessary to crush his enemies, even if it means oppressing and subjugating other peoples across the Galaxy. Honestly, that's how a lot of fascists operate - they're focused on their specific in-group and want to preserve it at all costs, particularly seeing it as being ABOVE everyone else. Everything suddenly becomes an enemy to you, so you need to control and subjugate it so your in-group retains the control you believe it needs, the control YOU believe you need to have.

My question is what's the point of making canon books if they are never brought up within the canon lol? I love the new canon books all around and would like even hints to the incredible stories happening there.

I think we need to all give up the copium and accept that Filoni doesn't care about the books or what Zahn wants to do with his character. Which is honestly my biggest complaint about Filoni. When his characters are used in books and comics it feels like the authors try and respect filoni's vision for the characters as much as possible. But it feels like that's a one way street and Filoni doesn't pay back that sentiment

I love Dave's work, I thoroughly enjoyed Ahsoka, But man being a Thrawn fan is frustrating, Multiple seasons of Rebels and now a whole season of a live action show, and if I didn't read the books I wouldn't even know what species he was, or that he has full name, or anything it seems, and that really kinda sucks.

I think Thrawn will say and portray whatever he has calculated will get him what he ultimately wants. He's a master manipulator, just like Palpatine. I don't think we know yet what the ultimate plan is there. By the character, it's too complicated for us to understand at this point.

Alright time to clear something up. The six new books came out 2017-2022. The first of which came out AFTER Thrawn was introduced in Rebels. The new Thrawn cared so much about his people. His exile was a ruse of sorts. Not so from the original trilogy that Filoni created his character from. THAT THRAWN was responsible for the death of tens of thousands of civilians on a colony ship called Outbound Flight. He was worried they would run into a species called the Yuuzhan Vong, who the Chiss called the far outsiders. He didn’t get exiled because of some act of great heroism, he was exiled for MURDERING CIVILIANS. THAT IS REBELS THRAWN. I don’t think we are going to see the Thrawn from the new books. Oh, and that Thrawn was straight up killed by Rukh because he was lying about freeing the Noghri, so I’m pretty sure he’ll die

I don't think he actually did, but the show has to be conform with more casual viewers, because the Thrawn Ascendency-Trilogy is so far distancted from literally everything other in Star Wars and just would seem very obscurre to the majority of fans.

Maybe Thrawn is working for the Imperial Remnant so they don’t attack the Chiss Ascendancy but what power leverage would the Imperials have that would make Thrawn obey? I just don’t Thrawn would have helped the Imperials on his own.

I see a 0% chance we will see the grisk

I doubt Filoni cares about those books

👍

Did the writers forget how to write a decent story?

Is there a lore reason Thrawn forgot about the Chiss ascendancy? Is he stupid?

Why does Thrawn look to me like Data from Star Trek decided to join the Blue Man Group? Like Data got a water proofing base coat before his final paint and clear coat.

The way I see it, the job of people like Dave Faloni is to make something cool that doesn't necessarily fit perfectly into the Star Wars universe, but works well enough that casual fans never notice a thing, and more hard-core fans can either whine about it or come up with an explanation for themselves. The job of people like Timothy Zon is to fill in the blanks and plot holes to get people to stop whining. What it boils down to is this: Movies and shows make something cool, books and comics make it all make sense.

To be fair nobody's asked him

Or, get this, Disney sucks at keeping characters and stories true to their origins and essences.

Timothy Zahn is a good author. All Disney wants Thrawn to be is a one dimensional villain with no real nuance or motivation but to be a story contrivance. I don't consider this a canonical depiction of him, just like Rebels, until they give us a good reason to consider it so. Sort of like most of the fanbase likes to pretend the sequel trilogy never happened. I can understand fans of Star Wars wanting it all to make sense, but I can't really theorycraft to cover bad writing or to justify poor treatment of one of my favorite characters. There were parts of Ahsoka that were powerful and lots of fun... And there were parts of it that were bad writing on par with The Last Jedi. I feel really bad for Zahn, having no choice but to clean up the messes left by lesser writers with his own character.

This new Star Wars canon is just so messy. Such a shame they botched so much in the sequels

No, but dave did

At the end of the day books/comics are basically just sanctioned fan fics and have little to no bearing on movies/ TV shows

lol those books are already pointless my guy

I guarantee you, with Filoni writing this show, those 3 Thrawn novels will be ignored. He does not consider anything outside of what's on screen canon.

No Disney did