He even made a prequel!

​@@ChubbyTadpoleheard there were spinoffs too, but I'm pretty sure those got lost to time

@@ChubbyTadpole Sadly the prequel to the prequel went out of print

I’ve been debating about this myself, and the way I’m interpreting it is that the difference between a gentle person and just a weak one is that they have the capacity to do harm and they know when to be ruthless and when to hold back. I do agree with you though that it might not quite fit in a modern context. The two angles I personally feel like people could take this through is someone in a literal fight for their lives against someone actively hurting them, or the less literal lens of the story being someone re-learning to stand up for themselves and what they care about (where the person might feel like they’re being too aggressive, but they’re actually doing it right and just not used to it)

Yeah as someone very much like polites, there's something to be said for standing up for yourself sometimes (that I still need to learn)

Odysseus did a LOT of shady stuff in the epic cycle and I absolutely love him for it. Jay’s adaptation already made him a more “open arms” character than his classics characterization imo. I’m very relieved and glad we won’t have an adaptation where he sits down with all the suitors and be friends and live happily ever after lol

Well theoretically, to apply it in a modern sense you might replace ruthlessness with selfishness. There's a point where it's ok, if not necessary, to serve your own interest, but at the same time going too far just breeds more problems

@@zashgekido5616 Exactly! You get it :)

great-grandson of Apollo, isn't he? or...Hermes? probably Hermes.

​@@acolytetojippityHermes is the trickster of his pantheon so going of a fellow trickster God Loki it's probably Hermes.

Only for Athena to still call him as just a man after he showed his hubris

​@@Tomy_LightningMore or less, he is quite loyal and diligent to his fellow Gods

@@mado-wh4jv me when i steal apollo's sacred cows the day im born

Bro Im over here chuckling in class after that

The way I audibly gasped at the audacity 😂

At some point is quoted saying "Because I like pancakes" in some recap of the story 😂

I was caught so off guard by his smile for real tho. Poleties dies and all we get is this: 😀

Ans the giant smile he had on his face XD

Perfect PFP, 10/10

that's kind of the point lol

Damn, I was hoping that carried true between Epic and The Odyssey. Sad...

Wait I'm confused, how does him being SA'd count as cheating? That's like saying all the victims in of zues that were in relationships cheated for being taken advantaged of

@@E.V.moon101 I never said it does. In the original myth, Odysseus had a relationship with Circe out of his own will, because for men extramarital affairs were pretty common. That's cheating. In this song, when Circe suggested an intercourse, she expected Odysseus to be willing, like most men. He refused her offer, because he values his wife above everything, and Circe respected that, she didn't try to force him to anything. But if she did push him harder or he initially accepted her offer despite his unwillingness, he would've been in fact SAd, since coercion is not consent. So it wouldn't be counted as cheating, but Odysseus probably would've thought he did cheat. He would've felt guilty and dirty, he wouldn't want to accept it as SA, since he agreed to everything, he had a "choice" (life of his friends in exchange for his body and honor, seemingly a small price), he would've thought there was something else he could've done, that it could've been avoided somehow (aka one of the most common trauma responses to SA). And that could potentially raise a discussion about male SA survivors. But as I said, I'm glad that Circe respected his refusal and didn't push further, it sends a positive message that no means no.

I mean, the aspect of SA was present more in his relationship with Calypso (as he expresses clearly he doesn't want to be there and he doesn't want that relationship but she forces it and even compares it to the way male gods force women) so I don't think it has been erased so much as we haven't gotten there.

​@@E.V.moon101In the OG story, or at least the translation I read, when talking about Circe, the relationship was a lot more "mutual" at least from what we're told

Same, and also thank you for existing cause now i feel less alone in my (slightly) obsessive way of living rn xD

@@melixie286 Oh man I felt that in my soul 😂

I think it's a middle ground where he learns that you cant keep giving people chances to be good people, if they show you who they are dont hesitate to kill.

​@@Illier1which is honestly a good lesson for a lot of people. Because people will keep toxic people in their lives and need to learn to cut them out. But sometimes they can be blinded by the trama the toxic person causes and that can lead to them cutting out the good people too. Like how Odysseyus rejected Athena after losing his men to Polyphemus.

It also ends with Odysseus killing the suitors, which causes their families to raise arms in revolt before Athena steps in and stops them. Odysseus’s ruthlessness is part of a cycle of violence that would kill him except that Athena steps in and forces an end to the violence, directing contradicting the moral of the adaptation by protecting Odysseus through mercy.

@Urkkahlia this is assuming the story continues that way, which is probably wont. The Suitors are depicted as being incredibly douchy in this telling as is so it makes sense Odysseus doesn't give them the chance to get revenge for him coming back. This is only one song thats very obviously the low point in his emotional state. He's not going to become one or the other. He becomes a man who knows when to be merciful but also knows when punishment needs to fit the crimes.

Take it like this. Is it a mercy to blind a child, and leave him to starve after butchering his family???

This theme is explored a little at the end of the Cyclops saga and the beginning of the Ocean saga btw. Odysseus spares the cyclops after blinding him and goes on a rant about how great he is and proudly tells him his name. As a consequence of that the cyclops tells his father that Odysseus blinded him and Poseidon tries to kill Odysseus. Odysseus wouldn't be in danger if he was more humble and silently left, since the cyclops didn't know who he was

There is a bit of justification for Open Arms. Odysseus seeking help from Aeolus against the wishes of his men, and pleading with Circe for help getting around Poseidon. Both cases follow the theme of 'Open Arms' where he puts himself at risk to be nice and merciful in front of a greater power and is rewarded for it.

I think it was more like I'll do some research tho

He reacted to a few so I think he likes them lol. But im curious to what he'll have to say as well

Just to add a little more to your question because I’m super curious and it coincides with the topic; did you expect the amount of animatics and also cover songs that would follow with each release or was that more of a surprise to you, Jay?

People see Athena as an Owl because that’s actually her sacred animal. That’s not a headcanon, thats accurate.

​@@No_Named_Nobodyit's still headcanon because there's no indication in the source material that anyone else can see her at all, in any form. It's a headcanon that makes a lot of sense but it's still a headcanon

@@Neutral_Tired Not visibly see her. Not everyone sees gods/goddesses Irl. They’re drawing Athena as an owl because that’s her sacred animal. As opposed to an eagle that’s Zeus’s

I read differently. From what I understand, Odysseus is more of a hero in the original Greek tradition. However, the Roman culture is more about honor, and is not too found of tricks and deceit, so he is not a a model for them.

Yes and no. The Romans didn't like Odysseus all that much, but that was less because of him being tricksy and deceitful, but rather because the Romans thought themselves descendants of the Trojans, and given Odysseus being the key player in the Trojan Horse, they didn't have much love left for the guy. He was also not universally hated in Rome or anything, his intelligence and tendency to improvise himself to victory through seemingly impossible odds were still quite well liked. Somewhat the same can be said about the Greeks, by principle trickery was an admirable trait in heroes, because it represented intelligence, even Heracles solved a lot of his problems through smarts despite possibly being the hero best equipped to just punch his way through everything. Odysseus gets a little bit of a wrist slap because he is SO tricksy and scheming that it borders dishonour, but he was still a Greek and Roman hero, the last part being key here, he was always a hero, never a villain (Except if your name is Aeneas, but that guy was 80% hypocrisy by volume so who cares really?). Both the Romans and Greeks tended to think of him as a hero almost solely because of Hermes/Mercury being a core god in both pantheons. Hermes is a god of trickery and deceit, despite which he was always a revered and generally "good" god - Both the Greeks and the Romans understood Hermes and Mercury to be important and, for lack of a better term, morally good gods - and so values he represented were also seen as admirable. Odysseus problem is really just that he has too much of a good thing, stack overflow, basically.

@@desreploid3353 wow, thanks for the history lesson! Especially about the Trojan to Roman bit.

@@jonathanstrock3562 If you're ever more curious about the Trojan to Roman bit, take a look at Virgil's Aeneid. It takes the relatively minor Trojan character Aeneas and turns him into the founder of Rome. Mythologically he is either the father or grandfather - I can't quite recall - of Romulus and Remus.

I agree with all of this! I listen to the track like every day too🤣 and I agree that Polities had an incredible arc, he was like my favorite character. Remember them is one of the most powerful songs, you just can’t describe it with words, only feelings can show the power of these peices

​@@colbymenck 🎉🎉😂❤. The lotus eaters are funny because they give off stoner comedy vibes 😂😂❤.

He looks so happy about it too

That feels like it would be a better lesson

It gets wilder when you realize the Odyssey is a fanfic too. Homer took irl characters and irl events, added his own fantastical elements, and then wrote his own story based off of canon. If that ain't ancient fanfic, then I don't know what is XD

Watching that tiktok for the first time and seeing how happy he looked killed me

Assist from Poseidon as he is getting ruthless

Lets not forget said son with Circe accidentally unalived Odesseyus 😳

@@olivenwanderi830 He must have been quite a badass if so many monsters and gods failed to do so.

Based on how it’s portrayed in the song, it doesn’t seem to me like Odysseus was taunting Polyphemus at all. His tone isn’t mocking, and honestly neither are his words. “When we met I led with peace while you fed your inner beast, but my comrades will not die in vain. Remember them. The next time that you dare choose not to spare, remember them. Remember us. Remember me.” Although he ends the song by listing his titles and true name, it doesn’t seem that Odysseus is doing this to gloat. He’s merely telling Polyphemus to remember and ponder his victims, the ones who survived, and Odysseus himself (who showed Polyphemus as much mercy as could be afforded).

*WELCOME*

in the musical, yep

Ikr!