Different training swords for HEMA, Steel, Nylon, Wood, etc.

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Күн бұрын

A look at the different materials and types of training swords that have and are being used for HEMA, and our opinion on what works best and why. There is so much more to this discussion, but this is an introduction.

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@LifebyBrianAquatics 8 жыл бұрын

Awesome video, thanks again! This kind of frank and informative discussion is so useful for us people new to HEMA like you were back in '95.

@user-tk2yk5sd9d 7 жыл бұрын

For someone like me who is just getting into HEMA, this is an excellent video. Great job and thanks.

@imstupid880 8 жыл бұрын

I think people were looking more for actual brand recommendations.

@willnonya9438 8 жыл бұрын

There is also the wooden dusacks with the leather sleeve. I'm not much of a dusack guy myself but I have been told that they simulate the bind very well.

@alexcheung9538 8 жыл бұрын

well said about facing different types of weapons

@sintibroes1272 2 жыл бұрын

Im realy glad to see people using Regenyei feders, they are a small business in my country (Hungary), yet they have such an impact on hema fencing all around the globe

@liamh5127 8 жыл бұрын

Interesting video.

@Person01234 8 жыл бұрын

Purple Heart? I was playing Hyperdimension Neptunia just earlier. What a coincidence.

@JWKONTRABASSO 6 жыл бұрын

What about rapier, are their synthetic rapiers. I would like to practice with one, but I can't find one.

@hector_2999 6 жыл бұрын

What's your take of synthetic blades with teeth to simulate binding? What kind of sword would you recommend for a beginner, a two handed long sword or a bastard sword?

@blackmixen 8 жыл бұрын

Out of interest do you practise or have anything to do with Polish sabre? Also, I'm aware of Black Fencers synthetic polish sabre, but can you recommend a steel version that would be usable for HEMA?

@Pamjamelia 8 жыл бұрын

This was a very helpful video but I still have a question: I attended my first HEMA class today where I was learning sword and buckler (my arms were killing me afterwards because I'm so new to it but that's besides the point) and we were using steel swords, although there were Knight Shop swords there. When I asked the instructor what he thought was best if I was to buy a training arming sword he said I'm better off saving up for a blunt steel sword instead of getting a Knight Shop sword (and come to think of it, the Knight Shop swords did seem to have rather chunky guards and pommels) and then told me towards the end of the class that I'd be better off not getting a training sword... assuming I was going to hit stuff with it, which I wasn't! It'd just be for getting used to the heft. But one thing he said against synthetic swords was that they aren't good for binding techniques. I just want to know what you would say for a beginner who wants to start with arming sword: blunt steel or Knight Shop synthetic sword? Because I'm more sceptical after that class today. I'll be checking with my instructor again next week but due to distance and schooling, I won't be attending it regularly so I would like to have the best option for solo training drills. And yes, I'll be buying protective gear. In fact, he recommended the mask above the sword. Thanks for reading this text wall of a question.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't get the knight shop sword now. A few years ago they were a real asset to us, but better things now exist. If you were going to buy a synthetic, the Black Fencer arming sword is excellent. In fact it is one of the best things they make. It handles like a sword, and not like the KS one. As for binding. There is still a very small amount of bounce to the Blackfencer, but in my experience, binding is what you make of it. Blunt steel isn't as good for binding as sharp steel either. We use both and successfully bind with both. Overall I am a big believer in getting a good synthetic first, its cheap and comparatively safe. Black Fencer or Purpleheart. Those who jump to steel to early on frequently end up sparring in a way that simply lacks intent. Of course those who only ever use light synthetics can get quite sportive, so it swings both ways. I suggest BF arming sword first, followed by a Regenyei or similar steel.

@Pamjamelia 8 жыл бұрын

Alright then. Thanks for the tip. I was thinking it would be a bit of a jump to start with steel right away. I noticed that BF's V4 Arming Sword is really cheap. Only about 4 euro more expensive than the Rawlings one so if I'd be paying *slightly* more for a better training sword that's still relatively safe, then that sounds like a bargain. Unless they're that cheap for a reason other than competitive pricing, of course. Their type XIV V4 Arming sword is a bit more pricey.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

Black Fencer ones are outstanding. I have a couple of their arming swords, and most things in their range actually. We have about 120 Black Fencer swords in the club, maybe more. They are outstanding, and durability is incredible. Especially if you keep to simple hilts like an arming sword where there are no complex guards to bend.

@Pamjamelia 8 жыл бұрын

That's great to hear! It's probably best if I go for the cheaper one for the time being then. It's mainly so I can get used to the heft and if I manage to find a sparring partner I can spar safely. Unfortunately my area is fairly removed so that won't happen for a while but we all have to start from somewhere, I suppose.

@burt2800 8 жыл бұрын

We use aluminiums for drills at my club and I think they work pretty well, better than feders. There's actually no need to repair the edge since they don't chip. I've been told the club have been using them for years and they're still in pretty good shape.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

+Henry Cookson The drills must be quite light then. Aluminium is soft, and any heavy contact as there would be in sparring will chew them up pretty quick.

@burt2800 8 жыл бұрын

Academy of Historical Fencing They aren't heavy, that's true. However the swords we use aren't cheap either, more in the 140£ mark so it might be better quality metal.

@salt3087 8 жыл бұрын

+David Cookson prbably has iron and nickel in it too or possibly copper.

@61zulu77 8 жыл бұрын

Sir, where can I find one of the steel training saber you show with a rolled tip and full basket hand guard?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

Peter Regenyei is best, but they are out of production while he finds a new supplier for bowl guards, best to wait for him.

@soaringwingchun 8 жыл бұрын

Have you ever tried coating your weapons? We used to paint ours on the edge and a bit of the flat with liquid tool dip (from the hardware store) which gave some stickiness on the bind. It did chip off with hard strikes sometimes but it's so cheap it doesn't really matter.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

+Soaring Wing Chun Yes, but we have found it to really not be that important. Providing you use a range of training tools and understand the relationship of sharps. We have found that such modification is just not suited to the operation of a school, where kit needs to be off the shelf useable.

@MartinGreywolf 8 жыл бұрын

+Soaring Wing Chun What I recently discovered is that it's not that hard to simulate what sharp-on-sharp sword contact feels like if even one of the fencers knows it. Hand your students sharps, make them do a single, safe(ish) bind to get the point across, and you're more or less set.

@danielmcclure8569 2 жыл бұрын

Can you tell me where you purchased the saber I would like to purchase one for my training

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 2 жыл бұрын

This model is no longer available but it was made by Peter Regenyei in Hungary, the closest model he makes to it today would be his "light" sabre. However most of us now use Kvetun Easton sabres to fulfil this roll.

@emanuelecorbellini5110 5 жыл бұрын

Hi! Would you still recommend synthetic longswords if I have to spar with people who use steel? Do they get heavily damaged?

@gabrielarchangel2658 4 жыл бұрын

Yes, you should use the same material as your sparring partner.

@darwallmento8177 6 жыл бұрын

Where can i buy the steel saber sword for practice please ? And nice vid bythe way

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 6 жыл бұрын

What kind of sabre? There are many sorts. For a 19th century bowl type, go to Kvetun Armoury (see their facebook page). For stirrup hilts, Tylko Szable is pretty good, and we are still working with other smiths to get good British Napoleonic era infantry types made. Hopefully coming soon.

@bowenjames123 8 жыл бұрын

Hi, in training terms is there much difference between a swept hilt rapier and a cup hilt. I use a hanwei swept hilt at the moment and follow di grassi, but am thinking of getting a Danelli cup hilt. Would this pose any issues when following an Italian manual from an earlier period than the cup hilt? Cheers.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

+Bowen R A cup hilt would be fine for di grassi, even though it is much later than his time. However, you would be better off with something more sidesword like considering his manual. The Danelli Transitional rapier would be ideal. As for using cup hilts generally instead of swept hilts, it's not a major problem. It removes the thrust attack to the hand through the hilt, but other than that it can be used according to the same techniques.

@bowenjames123 8 жыл бұрын

+Academy of Historical Fencing . Cheers Nick.

@joelshort2907 8 жыл бұрын

Your HEMA shop synthetic seems much more flexible than mine - is it an older model?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

+Joel Short No it is a current spec model, about 2 years old. We find they are all this flexible after a few months of heavy sparring.

@KnightSquire 8 жыл бұрын

I've been training for a while with the Rawlings synthetic. I'm ready for an upgrade and I don't know whether or not to go for a Black Fencer or spend the little extra and go straight for a Regenyei Feder?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

No simple answer to that. What I'd recommend to people is that they upgrade their Rawlings with Black Fencer, AND buy a feder :-) On an individual basis though, I would make your decision based on what your group or sparring partners are using most.

@KnightSquire 8 жыл бұрын

Thanks I appreciate the advice, incidentally what are your thoughts on the Black Fencer sharp simulator?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

Not tried it yet sorry.

@Gloin79 8 жыл бұрын

Roland Warzecha seems to like them

@jamesshantie5758 7 жыл бұрын

What kind of kit would be accepted for safe sparring?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 7 жыл бұрын

Groups vary, but as a rule, mask, medium gloves (like red dragon) for synthetic sparring, plus arm/elbow guards. Jackets and leg guards recommended, and required for steel use.

@lio5624 4 жыл бұрын

I have 2 questions: is cold steel safe to train with my brother at home? And the second one is: can you suggest me a few EU shops who sells synthetic sword, etc?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 4 жыл бұрын

They hit very hard and have no flex, in short they are ok for drills and light contact if you have the right gear for it, otherwise no. My recommendation would be Black Fencer (Spain), which are excellent. Go-now (Poland) also make a range of padded training swords that are great for use without much gear, we also use these as beginner weapons.

@MartinGreywolf 8 жыл бұрын

I think using wood is justified if you're trying to recreate period training itself, so there's some value in that. If that's not your goal, then yeah, syntetics all the way.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

+MartinGreywolf I would say that classifies as something a little more different or specialist than HEMA. Being a martial art, HEMA is not trying to replicate an image, attire or re-enactment of a particular time. If you are doing some form of re-enactment display then yes they will be useful.

@jaxono3448 6 жыл бұрын

Am I allowed to use a sword breaker as a secondary weapon?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 6 жыл бұрын

I'd not recommend it. We used one for some experiments, that we then made a video about. They massively increase the risk of blade breakages, and therefore make training much more dangerous as well as costly. Though the chances of breaking a blade with them in a real fight is quite slim, the chances are much higher with training blades because of the safety tips that we have to use, and they snag easily on something like a swordbreaker.

@salt3087 8 жыл бұрын

me and my three friends all specialize in specific weaponry. I do the long-sword/bastard/hand-and-a-half, We got a katana guy, a saber guy, and a spear/staff/quarterstaff guy. My favourite practice sword is my polypropaline hand-and-a-half, just because i can use it for more things than i could wit a one or two handed sword.

@scholarwithasword591 8 жыл бұрын

what about Dark Knight Armory swords? For training would they be adiquit?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

Not familiar with them, got links?

@scholarwithasword591 8 жыл бұрын

www.darkknightarmoury.com/ I've been looking for a good rapier trainer sword. That also has a good affordable price.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

Can't say I have had any experience with them sorry. We don't buy much from the US as postage costs and import duties hike the prices up to silly levels. I'd recommend the Darkwood armoury economy models though. Have had plenty of experience with those.

@thebrewster2234 8 жыл бұрын

Our club uses rawlings synthetic but we also have a pair of black fencer broadswords and steel. Rawlings are cheap but punish bad technique worse than the steels

@iamnotspartacus4460 8 жыл бұрын

Shinai is good as you only need gloves and a mask for full speed bouting.

@iamnotspartacus4460 8 жыл бұрын

Terrible for thrusts. I almost knocked someone out with a thrust.

@iamnotspartacus4460 8 жыл бұрын

Do you need to oil your swords?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

Very rarely. I oil my antiques once every five years and just keep an eye on them to make sure no moisture is getting to them. Training blades I just clean with autosol about once a year, and possibly oil if they look like they will last long enough.

@kleinjahr 8 жыл бұрын

The main advantage to wood is that you can make your own. Other than that, no advantage. Also, another thing about trainers is that they should be heavier than a real sword. This improves your endurance and speed with a real sword. Though you can simulate that weight by using wrist weights.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

+kleinjahr I don't agree that a sword trainer should be any heavier than the real thing. Original masters vary on this. In the Renaissance, some believed you should use double weight training swords, other half weight, and everything in between. As with any kind of training there are a world of variety of approaches and marketing strategies. Best way to improve endurance and speed is to use an accurate training tool often.

@kleinjahr 8 жыл бұрын

Academy of Historical Fencing Certainly, accurate training tools are good and useful.They teach how the real thing works.However, overweight trainers also have their use. Much like military training for endurance, using overweight packs. Or like boxers training at the bag with overweight gloves.

@cygil1 8 жыл бұрын

Wood is the best option for training at the pell. It isn't that popular, but it's a 100% authentic method of conditioning training.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

+cygil1 An authentic training tool certainly, but I don't see they have any advantage over high quality synthetics like the Black Fencer models. The synthetic material has no disadvantage over wood, is cheap to buy, and much more durable, and can then also be used for sparring.

@midshipman8654 8 жыл бұрын

+Academy of Historical Fencing Do you think that a steel training sword with an aluminum edge could maybe a good design?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

+Jackson Almodobar I wouldn't think so. I would expect the aluminium would have a problem flexing and returning true, giving much the effect of a katana blade, so you might as well have solid aluminium. Also, the soft aluminium edge does cause issues for safety as they have badly burred edges that can become like hacksaws under heavy usage in a short time.

@midshipman8654 8 жыл бұрын

Academy of Historical Fencing The edge being too dangerous for practice seems understandable, but if the majority of the blade was spring steal wouldn't the blade return to its original shape if bent?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

+Jackson Almodobar I wouldn't have thought so. Aluminium tends to stay bent after flexing, I would have thought that would stop the blade from returning true. It might also cause issues with the two metals trying to separate from one another.

@VelmiVelkiZrut 8 жыл бұрын

To be frank, I personally hate synthetics. They were relatively good in simulating steel, and I didn't have many problems with the behavior of a synthetic. My problem was elsewhere: I have never been hurt as badly with steel as I have with a synthetic sabre. It feels like people just respect steel far more and tend to get carried away far too much when using a "safer" material.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

+VelmiVelkiZrut I understand that argument, but I have seen just as much wild fencing with both, and I have seen far more severe injuries from steel at sensible contact levels as I have with synthetic at higher levels. If people are going wild, then that needs to be handled at a club level. Another issue is that people underestimate the safety equipment needed for synthetics, but that is not the fault of the training tool. I use steel and synthetic sabre every week, and the reality is that whilst the steel is more realistic in some regards of blade contact, there are some strikes I just wouldn't make with it that I do with the synthetic.

@breaden4381 8 жыл бұрын

+Academy of Historical Fencing Another disadvantage of synthetic swords is that they slip and slide in the bind. I think that electrical tape on the edge can fix that though

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

+TotalBarbarian Steel blunts do this as well though. No way I am putting tape on the blades. I still think the stick is overrated. I have used sharps, and thin edged blades for drills. I don't think it's that big a deal providing you know the principal of how sharps interact. Also Black Fencers new teethed blade will likely simulate the bind better than any training weapon to date, and it is synthetic.

@MartinGreywolf 8 жыл бұрын

+VelmiVelkiZrut All the time I saw any reference to heavier than original training swords, it was implied that they shouldn't be your only training sword - kind of like a japanese saburito, pretty much just a square wooden beam with a handle carved out of it. Good for physical conditioning, but you shouldn't use them to perfect actual techniques.

@londiniumarmoury7037 5 жыл бұрын

How many deaths did the aluminium sword cause over the years?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 5 жыл бұрын

They could certainly hit and thrust hard. Though as ever, you fence to the level of what you are using. Only injury I ever got from them is when I landed on the nagel during a grapple where the weapon had fallen to the flaw. Cracked rib, lovely. Hence why I don't like nagels, and would much prefer d-rings on messers.

@londiniumarmoury7037 5 жыл бұрын

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing I've actually been injured more by wooden swords than anything else, i've broke almost every finger and both thumbs, all from wooden wasters. When me and my friends first started out, we used wood, until over the years we sustained too many breaks, and when we got to working age we just couldn't use them anymore, because we needed our hands for working lol. We then used cut down golf club shafts with the heads removed, wrapped in leather and other fabric with tape around them. Then we started making our own steels out of live blades and just grinding them down, the tips were unsafe and we had 2-3 injuries, one quite bad, so we stopped all unsafe sword training after my friend took a bad thrust through his palm. This was all years and years ago, no unsafe training goes on anymore, health and safety over here now!

@waraidako 8 жыл бұрын

Society can learn a lot from HEMA. If you want to teach someone a lesson they won't soon forget, whack them on the head a bit, see if they don't start learning mighty quickly. xD Teacher: _"Have you learned yet?"_ Pupil: _"Yeah, I learned... Ow..."_

@K1809H 8 жыл бұрын

If you are truly interested in historical fencing, why would you ever want to use synthetic materials? There is just nothing historical about that, even if it has some practical advantages.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын

+K1809H Because we do it for the martial art, not public display. People learnt fighting arts historically as practice to be able to survive a real fight. But today we will never be in those 'real fight' scenarios, but we can use modern technology and materials to represent the real fight in ways that fencers never could a few hundred years ago. Fencing masks didn't exist and/or were rarely used throughout most periods of which these weapons were used also, but then people lost eyes and/or had to be far more restrained with their practice.

@willnonya9438 8 жыл бұрын

+K1809H because for the price of 2 quality feders I can buy 6 synthetic swords.

@K1809H 8 жыл бұрын

+Academy of Historical Fencing To me personally half the fun is having the weapon be as close as possible to the original ones. But thanks for your great answer and I appreciate your point of view!

@breaden4381 8 жыл бұрын

The goal is learning the martial art as best as possible.

@burt2800 8 жыл бұрын

+K1809H I tend to agree with you but have one argument for synthetic weapons and that's about it's use in a bind. When sharp swords meet they bite into eachother and the bind is 'sticky'. The only way to recreate this at the moment with blunt weapons are teethed blades (look up blackfencer). So if you want to fight with the feel of a sharp blade you have to use a teethed synthetic one and I think that's more 'historically accurate' than just using blunt ones. Search for Dimicator on here to see some videos of freeplay with sharps ;)